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Thread: •Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

  1. #76
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    Magmortar for Middle [2/3].
    Samurott for High [2/3].
    Liepard for Bottom [1/3]. It's stats are pretty decent, but it's movepool is just so horrid.
    Swanna for Middle [3/3] (FoldingScreen, zhanton, Aurawarrior8).

    And now for more bottom tierings because they're easy
    Watchog - Bottom
    Very Early (Route 19) -
    Notable Moves - Return, Crunch, Fire Punch, Aqua Tail, Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, Hynosis
    Stats - Bad defences. Average speed and just about usable attack.

    - Description -

    +Good movepool
    +Available and evolves early.
    -Requires a vast investment of shards/BP to get all but 2 of the moves listed above.
    -It's horrid stats become increasingly more apparent as the game drags on; Watchog has stats comparable to a middle evolution like Vigoroth.
    -That massive investment for various moves really doesn't payoff very well in the end.
    Last edited by Aurath8; 23rd October 2012 at 7:06 PM.
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  2. #77
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    Magmortar for Middle [3/3].
    Samurott for High [3/3].
    Liepard for Bottom [2/3].
    Watchdog for Bottom [1/3]



  3. #78
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    [2/3] Watchog for bottom

    And [3/3] Liepard for bottom.

    ^Click it!^

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    Editted the OP with Serperior, Hydreigon, Lieprd and Samurott!

    [3/3] Watchog being Bottom. Editted into the OP!

    Also, I'd like to change my approval to Swanna, optiong for Lower-Middle.

    @Growlithe; It also gets Dragon Pulse, Wild Charge, Outrage, Flamethrower, Iron Head and Crunch meaning that it's movepool is actually pretty decent. The need for a Fire Stone doesn't hinder it at all as you can get a Fire Stone in Desert Resort at levels below you'd even consider evolving it. It also has Intimidate to give it artificial Physical Bulk. Arcanine could easily go for Mid, possibly Upper-Mid imo.

    Druddigon - Low Tier
    Availability - Endgame (Victory Road)
    Notable Moves - Crunch, Dragon Claw, Rock Slide, Bulldoze, Aqua Tail, Fire Punch, Thunderpunch
    Stats - Great Atk. Nice Bulk, atrocious Spe

    +Doesn't need extra grinding to play it's role
    +Has all the moves it really needs
    -Found too late in the game to contribute
    -Not overly useful against the E4; it'll be outsped and OHKOd by Iris
    -That Speed stats is terrible with no way of fixing it.
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 23rd October 2012 at 4:35 PM.

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    Weezing isn't great mid-game, true, but "horrible" is an understatement. Super-effective coverage is not really what you're going for with Weezing - it's a great catch-all answer to offensive threats, and that's how I believe it should be used. Will-O-Wisp helps it a lot in that role, and you pick that up in Celestial Tower, before the 6th badge.

    Anyway, I see you edited in Mienshao not being very good in major battles, FoldingScreen. That's a bit unfair considering it can punch big holes in Colress's team, OHKO three of Grimsley's team, KO Marshal's Mienshao and probably one other without healing, and knock out three of Iris's Pokémon without taking a hit... assuming it doesn't miss.

    I think Watchog should have Hypnosis in its notable moves, and "better than Liepard" as a + And I thought we were ignoring PWT TMs, so maybe delete Swords Dance. Definitely still bottom though, so [3/3] on that.

    Samurott can't learn Grass Knot until post-game, so I think that should be removed. I'm on the fence between high and upper-middle, so I'll hold off on voting there.

    Sawsbuck - Lower-Middle Tier
    Availability - Midway (Route 6)
    Notable Moves - Return, Horn Leech, Seed Bomb, Megahorn, Jump Kick, Wild Charge, Bounce?
    Stats - Good Attack and Speed, poor Special Attack, middling defences

    +Strong STAB Normal
    +Good neutral coverage
    +Deerling is absolutely adorable
    -Weak STAB Grass
    -Not that useful in major battles (except Humilau Gym)
    Last edited by TotalPotato; 23rd October 2012 at 4:48 PM.
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  6. #81
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    I would also say Growlithe could be Middle Tier. It does come in handy with dealing with Team Plasma. However, it does struggle with Clay and Marlon, is ok with Drayden and Elesa, but I 1/3 Growlithe for Mid Tier due to its great movepool and atleast neutral coverage on a majority of Gyms and major boss fights.
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    Weezing isn't great mid-game, true, but "horrible" is an understatement. Super-effective coverage is not really what you're going for with Weezing - it's a great catch-all answer to offensive threats, and that's how I believe it should be used. Will-O-Wisp helps it a lot in that role, and you pick that up in Celestial Tower, before the 6th badge.
    Which really isn't the most efficient way of playing. The purpose of the tiering is tier Pokemon based on efficiency, after all. You do raise a fair point, though. That being said, I don't see Weezing contributing as much to a team as say, Sigilyph.

    Anyway, I see you edited in Mienshao not being very good in major battles, FoldingScreen. That's a bit unfair considering it can punch big holes in Colress's team, OHKO three of Grimsley's team, KO Marshal's Mienshao and at least one other without healing, and knock out three of Iris's Pokémon without taking a hit.
    Fair points, I'll edit the OP x)

    I think Watchog should have Hypnosis in its notable moves, and "better than Liepard" as a + :P And I thought we were ignoring PWT TMs, so maybe delete Swords Dance. Definitely still bottom though, so [3/3] on that.
    True, true. Editted the OP. tbh, everything could use the 'better than Liepard tag, except maybe Audino x)

    Deerling also dominates Clay's Gym, letting him contribute off the get-go. It could make Middle imo,

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    Which really isn't the most efficient way of playing. The purpose of the tiering is tier Pokemon based on efficiency, after all. You do raise a fair point, though. That being said, I don't see Weezing contributing as much to a team as say, Sigilyph.
    I used both, and mid-game, Sigilyph was better, but end-game, I think Weezing was more useful (in between, they were about equal). This back-and-forth isn't really going anywhere, though - some other opinions on Weezing would probably be helpful.

    Deerling also dominates Clay's Gym, letting him contribute off the get-go. It could make Middle imo,
    Well, I thought about that, but you have to spend six shards to teach it Seed Bomb, which you might not really want to do since you get Horn Leech for free in a few levels time. If you don't teach it Seed Bomb, the best you have is Energy Ball, which isn't really that great coming off 40 special attack. It depends if you think it's a worthwhile investment at that stage, which you might or might not depending on the other members of your team.
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    Yay double posting!

    Well, I thought about that, but you have to spend six shards to teach it Seed Bomb, which you might not really want to do since you get Horn Leech for free in a few levels time. If you don't teach it Seed Bomb, the best you have is Energy Ball, which isn't really that great coming off 40 special attack. It depends if you think it's a worthwhile investment at that stage, which you might or might not depending on the other members of your team.
    Ah, you're right. I thought it got Horn Leech much earlier for whatever reason. [1/3] for Lower Middle Sawsbuck

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    I would put Arcanine at upper-Mid if it only learned Outrage earlier (not Nacrene). Too bad.
    Last edited by azeem40; 23rd October 2012 at 5:59 PM.
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  11. #86
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    Sawsbuck for Low-Middle [2/3].
    Druddigon for Low. [1/3].

    Growlithe would like Dragon Pulse and Wild Charge amongst its notable moves. And Flamethrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    Sorry my internet was down and I was going to say about serperior before he got tiered.

    @serperior I am not sure he belongs in lower-middle tier. Despite not having the best offensive stats he has a very diverse move set you could run Calm mind, leech seed, giga drain, dragon pulse. Or sword dance/coil, leaf blade, return, aqua tail. I think this makes up for him not being great at attacking especially as you get snivy as a starter having serperior so low down doesn't make sense to me. His speed is great and unlike samurott you won't ever get out-sped by ingame pokemon. He can easily take hits and although neutral hits might require a set up or a 2HKO it shouldn't mean he gets into lower-mid tier because of it. Still a viable and useful pokemon especially due to the lack of grass pokemon besides liligant.

    @samurott. I don't think he belongs in high tier either. Upper-mid is what I'd go for. His speed is really what lets him down at the end of the game and when hits are so crucial especially at the E4 and end game. Everything hits hard which can be dangerous for a not too bulky water type. There are better water options out there such as jellicent/vaporeon who can take hits in order to make up for there slowness.

    edit:

    Arcanine- Upper Middle [2/3] (FoldingScreen, Dragoniteftw)
    Last edited by Dragoniteftw; 23rd October 2012 at 8:01 PM.

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    Leavanny - Middle Tier
    Availability - Early (Before 1st Gym)
    Notable Moves - Swords Dance , Leaf Blade , X-Scissor , Shadow Claw , Return
    Stats - Good Attack , average Speed and mediocre in everything else.

    It is really quite nice you catch Sewaddle before the 1st Gym. It struggles against Roxie , Elesa and 6th Gym (can't remember the name). It learns Swords Dance by Level which is a plus , but it lacks a good movepool.

    + Access to Swords Dance through Level
    + Good STAB's
    - Mediocre Defenses
    - Bad Typing

    Edit: So Dragoniteftw is certified as well? I've seen him confirming Tiering previously.
    Last edited by Aura Sensei™; 23rd October 2012 at 7:44 PM.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aura Sensai View Post
    Leavanny - Middle Tier
    Availability - Early (Before 1st Gym)
    Notable Moves - Swords Dance , Leaf Blade , X-Scissor , Shadow Claw , Return
    Stats - Good Attack , average Speed and mediocre in everything else.

    It is really quite nice you catch Sewaddle before the 1st Gym. It struggles against Roxie , Elesa and 6th Gym (can't remember the name). It learns Swords Dance by Level which is a plus , but it lacks a good movepool.

    + Access to Swords Dance through Level
    + Good STAB's
    - Mediocre Defenses
    - Bad Typing

    Edit: So Dragoniteftw is certified as well? I've seen him confirming Tiering previously.
    I'm not a cert just quite active on the thread, anyone can vote a pokemon but at-least one cert has too

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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aura Sensai View Post
    Leavanny - Middle Tier
    Availability - Early (Before 1st Gym)
    Notable Moves - Swords Dance , Leaf Blade , X-Scissor , Shadow Claw , Return
    Stats - Good Attack , average Speed and mediocre in everything else.

    It is really quite nice you catch Sewaddle before the 1st Gym. It struggles against Roxie , Elesa and 6th Gym (can't remember the name). It learns Swords Dance by Level which is a plus , but it lacks a good movepool.

    + Access to Swords Dance through Level
    + Good STAB's
    - Mediocre Defenses
    - Bad Typing

    Edit: So Dragoniteftw is certified as well? I've seen him confirming Tiering previously.
    I'd place Leavanny in Low.
    It doesn't get Swords Dance until lvl 46 which is approaching the last gym. It also has a very shallow movepool, more or less limited to its STABs. These STABs are both resisted by Fire, Flying, Poison and Steel and it has 6 weaknesses meaning it has a lot of difficulty against just under a 1/3 of all pokemon.
    Apart from Clay and Marlon it does pretty mediocre in major battles and doesn't help either with the Steel and Poison loving Team Plasma. It does find some use in the E4 against Grimsley and Caitlin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
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  16. #91
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    I 3/3 Arcanine in Upper Mid. It has great coverage with or without Outrage and is obtained very early.

    I agree with Samurott on High Tier. Just because it is a Water type doesn't mean he has to be a Bulky Water type. He has great coverage with his moves.
    Last edited by azeem40; 24th October 2012 at 1:30 AM.
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aura Sensai View Post
    Leavanny - Middle Tier
    Availability - Early (Before 1st Gym)
    Notable Moves - Swords Dance , Leaf Blade , X-Scissor , Shadow Claw , Return
    Stats - Good Attack , average Speed and mediocre in everything else.

    It is really quite nice you catch Sewaddle before the 1st Gym. It struggles against Roxie , Elesa and 6th Gym (can't remember the name). It learns Swords Dance by Level which is a plus , but it lacks a good movepool.

    + Access to Swords Dance through Level
    + Good STAB's
    - Mediocre Defenses
    - Bad Typing

    Edit: So Dragoniteftw is certified as well? I've seen him confirming Tiering previously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurawarrior8 View Post
    I'd place Leavanny in Low.
    It doesn't get Swords Dance until lvl 46 which is approaching the last gym. It also has a very shallow movepool, more or less limited to its STABs. These STABs are both resisted by Fire, Flying, Poison and Steel and it has 6 weaknesses meaning it has a lot of difficulty against just under a 1/3 of all pokemon.
    Apart from Clay and Marlon it does pretty mediocre in major battles and doesn't help either with the Steel and Poison loving Team Plasma. It does find some use in the E4 against Grimsley and Caitlin.
    I think he could go in lower mid. He's not bad enough for low IMO, his Atk is much better than Serp, who should be in low. His usefulness in the E4 what with all the dark and psychic types is fine enough for low mid.

    [3/3] for Sawsbuck in low mid

    [2/3] Druddigon for low

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    Quote Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post
    I 3/3 Arcanine in Upper Mid. It has great coverage with or without Outrage and is obtained very early.

    I agree with Samurott on High Tier. Just because it is a Water type doesn't mean he has to be a Bulky Water type. He has great coverage with his moves.
    I don't think you understood my point that its just too slow. Not sure if mine just had bad IV's or something but my samurott would always get out sped. This would be okay if it had some defences to back it up. More than often you will be in a potion cycle.

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    Editted the OP with Arcanine and Sawsbuck, yay!

    @Leavanny, I pretty much agree with Joe that it should be Lower-Mid at the very least. Also, would you mind going into detail about Serperior->Low? I'm somewhat on the edge with Serp's tiering as well, so.

    Also, would you guys be so kind as to go check out the OP and Approve / Argue for the Pokemon that haven't been completed yet?


    Ninetales - Low / Bottom Tier
    Availability - Endgame (Abundant Shrine)
    Notable Moves - Flamethrower, Energy Ball, Dark Pulse, Will-O-Wisp, Hypnosis
    Stats - High Spe, SpD. Usable SpA

    +Can cover all it's weaknesses with Energy Ball
    -Found too late in the game to be of any use
    -Requires notable require grinding (found at Mid 30s)
    -Physically Frail
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 24th October 2012 at 12:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Snorlax
    I think he could go in lower mid. He's not bad enough for low IMO, his Atk is much better than Serp, who should be in low. His usefulness in the E4 what with all the dark and psychic types is fine enough for low mid.
    True. Low is a bit rash. Leavanny for Low-Middle.

    Serperior would like Dragon Pulse amongst its notable moves, and maybe Growth. That meants it's useful against Clay, Drayden, Marlon and fairly useful against Elesa (since only Zebstrika can do substantial damage to it with Flame Charge). With that and Aqua Tail it actually hits all of the champion's pokemon supereffectively. That has to make up for his poor offences.

    -Fire gives it more weaknesses than resistances, especially in a QuakeEdge filled endgame
    Actually Fire has the second most resistances of any type: 5. Then again, said resistances are Grass, Bug, Ice, Steel and Fire, which are all pretty redundant when Fire hits them all supereffectively/mutually resists it.
    Pedantry ftw.

    I'd put Ninetales in Low [1/3]. It's not completely useless like Liepard.
    Last edited by Aurath8; 24th October 2012 at 11:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    Sorry but this post is going to be a bit messy because I'll be responding to several things and I'm tired so I don't want to use the quote button, asjkdhfkasf.

    re: Swanna; keep in mind though that it gets Surf very soon after you obtain it, which is a good STAB move, as well as most of Clay's Gym to train against. It gets Fly relatively soon after. Also, I believe you get Ducklett slightly earlier than Vaporeon (though correct me if I'm wrong), so that's another plus it has. So yeah I'm sticking with it for Mid ^^;

    I'll [2/3] Ninetales for Low. Sure it comes late but, like AuraWarrior said, it's not Liepard-bad. :P

    I'm also supporting Leavanny for Low-Mid. So I guess that's [1/3] then?

    I've been thinking about Weezing, and I think Mid suits it fine. Poison Gas+ Venoshock early game is a legit strategy, and I guess its physical bulk and WoW would really help in the late-game against opponents like Drayden and much of the E4. That said, I would assume it really lags behind mid-game due to its rather late evolution (Lv 35, which I would imagine would be sometime around Chargestone Cave, maybe even towards Skyla) and I think that late evolution might be enough to pull it down to Mid. I won't cast a vote for it yet, though, but just putting out my opinion.

    [3/3] Druddigon for Low.

    Re: some of the tierings already in the OP:

    - Lucario: 'Counter' is spelt wrong in its notable moves. You can probably add Drain Punch and Shadow Ball as well.
    - Azumarill: Brick Break can be added as a notable move imo
    - Vaporeon: one of its cons mentions a heart scale; it gets Surf soon after Clay, though, so a heart scale isn't really that necessary.
    - Sawsbuck: Double Edge as a notable move as the recoil can be healed off with Horn Leech
    - Serperior: Dragon Pulse and Outrage as notable moves

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    Editted the OP with all the points mentioned, and added Druddigon to the list. However, I didn't give Azumarril Brick Break, I don't really think PWT TMs should be factored into the tiering, they take too long for an efficient game.

    EDIT : Also Editted the OP with Tierings for the Pokemon that have already been Tiered

    [2/3] for Lower-Mid Leavanny.
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 24th October 2012 at 12:46 PM.

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    [3/3] Leavanny for lower mid.

    [3/3] Ninetales in low.

    @Serp: I think he should be in low because he's outclassed in low mid IMO. Pansage/Sawsbuck/Leavanny hit harder and outspeed most things with a few levels. Not having 2 types ins nice, but I just feel that he makes in-game more challenging.

    @Swanna: Spe is good, but IMO he's outclassed by Golduck for mid. Golduck has slightly better defenses, higher offense, is available earlier and doesn't have that flying type to worry about. Sure, Golduck is slower, but IMO deserves mid more than Swanna. I'm sticking with lower mid for this one, unless someone has a better argument.

    Shuckle - Low/Bottom
    Availability - Late (Seaside Cave)
    Notable Moves - Acupressure (EM), Struggle Bug, Power Split, Power Trick, EQ, Stone Edge, Gastro Acid, Encore, Gyro ball, lol Shell Smash
    Stats - Terrible offenses and HP, best Def and SpD in the game.

    - Description -

    +Power Trick is usable if you know you're fighting something that uses special attacks.
    +Power Split can cripple strong pkmn in one turn
    -Does no damage without boosts and even then SE hits will 2HKO at best.
    -Gimmicky and practically useless

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    I could see Toxic and Rest getting some use on Shuckle with Power Split. Acupressure and Earthquake are post-E4, so they shouldn't be considered. But having never used Shuckle, I have no idea just how bulky it really is, so I don't feel I'm qualified to tier it.

    I think double STAB gives Swanna something over Golduck. And why should having a second type mean it has more to worry about? It loses a weakness to Grass and gains a weakness to Rock - I don't think that's much cause for concern. The 4x Electric weakness isn't that bad in practice, because you're never going to use a Water-type against an Electric-type anyway unless it's part Ground or something. I would be tempted to place Swanna in Middle, but I'd like to think about it over dinner.
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    What about Waterfall and Aqua Jet as notable moves for Azumarill?
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