•Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

[Zhanton]

Sorry I haven't been able to contribute much lately, I've been busy. (Two more weeks until exams are over though, not long to go!)

[3/3] Audino for bottom

[2/3] Delcatty for bottom

[3/3] Scolipede for lower-mid

I'd like to point out that Steelix does really well against the notable trainers: he crushes Skyla, does fine against Drayden, does decently against Shauntal with Crunch (and possible Caitlin as well, though his SpD isn't that high...) and does well against Iris. Plus you can evolve it pretty early by using Thief on some Magnemite, I guess. That's enough for at least mid imo. [2/3]

[Dragoniteftw]

It feels abit weird rating pokemon you have to trade to evolve. Surely if you had to trade to white to evolve then other items such as evolution stones/items could be avaliable earlier too

Im gunna put steelix in low-mid [1/3] the only thing it can do is tank defensively. Special def and hp suck, surf will be insta kill even from a seel - but eh not like youll send it out to fight waters anyway. The only use of steelix is just to take hits and chip away slowly there are better options avaliable. Movepool is okay elemental fangs will do barely anything, crunch for e4 lack of stab will also be 2hko, main stab is dig/bulldoze which both are meh. He is good for e4 assuming they stick to stab and attack moves which is unlikely.

Steelix is generally meh, marlon will agree

[Aurath8]

It feels abit weird rating pokemon you have to trade to evolve. Surely if you had to trade to white to evolve then other items such as evolution stones/items could be avaliable earlier too

Well, we assume that the games will be completely self-contained with the exception of trade evos. imo, as long as we state in the tiering that its a trade evolution and otherwise tier as normal then its fine.

The only use of steelix is just to take hits and chip away slowly there are better options avaliable.

As I said before it takes physical hits better than anything else, has the almighty Steel typing and 85 base attack is fairly good, not counting Curse boosts. While many pokemon beat Steelix offensively, very few pokemon are such a good physical tank.
The real problem with Steelix is the hassle to get it and that its not very useful against Special attackers because its stats are so focused upon physical tanking.



Lopunny - Bottom Tier
Availability - Early-Mid(Castelia City)
Notable Moves - Return, Jump Kick, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch,
Stats - Bad Hp and offences. Decent defences. Great speed.

- Description -

-Requires heavy shard investment to form a full moveset.
-Bad offences prevent it from taking out opponents efficiently.
-Lacks good defences relegating it to support.
-Lacks most support options until much later on in the game.


Basically Lopunny's a dead weight throughout much of the game, since it sucks at offence, defence and is mediocre at support when it finally gets there. I can't think of any pros except for the furries.

[MetalShadowX]

What about the event obtained Genesect? It's really powerful early on (as long as you have the first badge) and while not as useful after the halfway point, it's still a keeper. Or is it that since the event won't last after next Monday, it doesn't count?

[azeem40]

I 2/3 it being low.

[Tsumiki]

What about the event obtained Genesect? It's really powerful early on (as long as you have the first badge) and while not as useful after the halfway point, it's still a keeper. Or is it that since the event won't last after next Monday, it doesn't count?

As mentioned in the OP, Event-only Pokemon won't be tiered.

[1/3] Bottom Lopunny, although I could see it going Low. Actually, I was joking. It's bottom

I 2/3 it being low.

Umm... What are you 2/3ing?

Stoutland - Upper Middle / High Tier
Avaiability - Early (Floccesy Ranch)
Notable Moves - Return, Crunch, Wild Charge, Iron Head, Superpower
Stats - Great Atk, Decent Bulk and Spe. All Around balanced stats

+Early Return + Crunch makes a fantastic earlygame
+Balanced all around stats (save atrocious SpA)
+Intimidate gives it artificial Physical Bulk
-Doesn't particularly shine in most major battles
-Requires tutors to get any notable moves besides Return and Crunch


ALSO, I'd like for people to check out the OP and approve on tiering that haven't been completed. That Swanna's been there since the start of the thread >.>

[azeem40]

As mentioned in the OP, Event-only Pokemon won't be tiered.

[1/3] Bottom Lopunny, although I could see it going Low. Actually, I was joking. It's bottom


Umm... What are you 2/3ing?

Stoutland - Upper Middle / High Tier
Avaiability - Early (Floccesy Ranch)
Notable Moves - Return, Crunch, Wild Charge, Iron Head, Superpower
Stats - Great Atk, Decent Bulk and Spe. All Around balanced stats

+Early Return + Crunch makes a fantastic earlygame
+Balanced all around stats (save atrocious SpA)
+Intimidate gives it artificial Physical Bulk
-Doesn't particularly shine in most major battles
-Requires tutors to get any notable moves besides Return and Crunch


ALSO, I'd like for people to check out the OP and approve on tiering that haven't been completed. That Swanna's been there since the start of the thread >.>

What do you mean what am I doing?

[edonub]

Okay, fine

Swanna - Middle [2/3] (Aurawarrior8, zhanton), Lower Middle [2/3] (FoldingScreen, Grumpy Snorlax) < 3/3 for Middle, it's a lot more useful than most of the Lower Middle pokes so it makes sense. Rain Dance + Surf and Hurricane is a very nice combo that hits most things neutrally for solid damage. Before that, it gets good STAB along the way, so it's hardly a dead weight. Also one of the few Waters you can catch before getting Surf, and right before Clay too, so you can train it up there.

Conkeldurr - Top [1/3] (zhanton) < 2/3 for Top, it's powerful, bulky and has the right moves.

Lilligant - Upper Middle [1/3] (Grumpy Snorlax), High [2/3] (Aurawarrior8, zhanton) < I made this review so I'm not allowed to vote, right? I'm for High though.

Crobat - Middle [2/3] (FoldingScreen, Grumpy Snorlax) < To be honest, this is probably the only time where Zubat is good. No painful training (You can catch one with Bite and Wing Attack already as soon as it's level 15. It's close to evolving as well), good typing and stats, I'd go for 1/3 Upper-Middle but maybe that's just me.

Vanilluxe - Low [1/3] (FoldingScreen) < 2/3 Low. Ice type. Bad moves. Not horrible enough to make it in the bottom tier.

Weavile - Low [1/3] (Dragoniteftw) / Lower Middle [2/3] (FoldingScreen, zhanton) < Don't know about this. good offensive STAB, awesome offensive stats, gets rid of a lot of things with ease at the point you catch it. Namely, half the elite four and the champion battle. Middle for me 1/3, there's much worse stuff on Middle anyway but I guess the lategame availability is a factor.

Jellicent - Upper Middle [2/3] (FoldingScreen, Aurawarrior8) < I think I gave a 1/3 for High to this.

Steelix - Low [1/3] (azeem4) / Lower Middle [1/3] (Dragoniteftw) / Middle [1/3] (Aurawarrior8) < It's not as bad as Low pokes, but it's almost useless nonetheless. 2/3 Lower Middle

Delcatty - Bottom [2/3] (Aurawarrior8, zhanton) 3/3, duh

Loppuny - Bottom [1/3] (FoldingScreen) 2/3, duh

Stoutland - Upper Middle / High [0/3] < 2/3 Upper Middle. It's great earlygame, but by the time you get to evolve it into Stoutland, it's already outclassed. Hits like a truck for the first half of the game though.

[azeem40]

I 2/3 Weavile in Mid. It outspeeds most of the game and has good coverage.

[edonub]

Being stuck at home with the flu gives you lots of free time, doesn't it...

Swoobat - Low
Availability - Relatively Early (Relic Passage near Castelia City)
Notable Moves - Psychic, Air Slash, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball, Charge Beam, Thunder Wave, Roost, Signal Beam, Giga Drain
Stats - Very high speed, mediocre special attack, horrible defenses.

- Description -
Falls short of being Bottom just because it IS fast, it has a good typing and it gets decent moves. Still definitely not a top choice, being almost entirely outclassed by Sigilyph, which has a little less speed to boast about, but a much better ability in Magic Guard and superior bulk/special attack.

+ Easy catching and evolving (just get it before you explore Castelia, get the Soothe Bell, walk around doing what you need and you'll probably be able to evolve it around level 20-25)
+ Interesting typing, does some work against Burgh, Clay (barring Excadrill), and lots of regular trainers
- Really lacks the raw stats. It will most likely fail to KO your opponent, and it will most likely get KO'd back in return, especially lategame.
- Sigilyph is just superior in any way, even the early game Calm Mind doesn't help when you need to use it once just to have COMPARABLE stats with the other bird-thing. If it had Simple maybe, but that's DW material.


Whimsicott - Low
Availability - Relatively Early (Castelia City)
Notable Moves - Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Stun Spore, Shadow Ball, Psychic, Hurricane, Light Screen, Cotton Guard, Toxic
Stats - Very high speed, low hp, decent defenses, mediocre special attack and low attack

- Description -
Competitively it might have some uses thanks to Prankster, but ingame a base 116 speed is more than enough to outspeed everything. It's a decent annoyer with usable special moves like Shadow Ball or Psychic, but what makes it inferior to other grass types is IMO the lack of Sleep Powder, easily one of the best moves to shut down any threat ingame, because the AI hardly ever switches out, giving you free turns to setup or do whatever you want. It's still okay, but this game is filled with good grass types (for a change), so Whimsicott gets too much competition from pokes that just "do it better". Hurricane is not STAB and only 70% accurate. Cool, but not worth it. It's not completely bad though, you can -slowly but surely- KO lots of stuff with it.

+ Can get one as soon as you hit Castelia City
+ It's fast, so you can Leech Seed + Giga Drain stall pretty much everything not resisting grass
+ Evolves fairly soon in Nimbasa City. Waiting up to level 26 is recommended for Giga Drain. If you want Cotton Guard (+3 physical def) you have to wait until 37, though.
- As soon as you catch it, it faces problems with Castelia's Gym. actually, it's not a good poke for pretty much ANY gym battle.
- No Sleep Powder just makes it an inferior Serperior (HURR DURR), with no setup moves like Calm Mind or Coil, similar offensive stats and worse defensive stats.
- Even though it has SOME variety, it's still completely walled by Steels. Serp gets Aqua Tail, Liligant sets up all over them (she sets up over everything anyway), Sawsbuck has Jump Kick, etc. As a consequence, a fully offensive set of Giga Drain, Psychic, Shadow Ball and Hurricane still has poor coverage, and not using stuff like Leech Seed on this thing is a waste. Might as well use something more offensive.

Flareon - Lower Middle
Availability - Relatively Early (Castelia City)
Notable Moves - Fire Fang, Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Lava Plume, Will-O-Wisp, Superpower, Return, Dig, Shadow Ball, Dig, Bite
Stats - Very high physical attack, high special attack, very high special defense. Low HP, attack, and speed

- Description -
This thing would be a monster if it weren't held back by low speed and movepool. People overlook its special attack for some reason, even though base 95 is above average at worst. Unless you're Adamant, Fire Blast will do waaaaay more than Fire Fang. Thing is, you know something's wrong when you're considering Dig and Bite in your moveset. With Flame Charge being a post-elite 4 TM, you can't even mitigate its speed problem. Still, Return/Superpower/Fire Blast/something makes for a very hard-hitting mixed set.

+ Cute.
+ Hits hard from both sides.
- Darmanitan's existance. But also Arcanine, Magmortar, even Emboar, etc.
- Seriously, not much to say. It has way too good offensive stats, and it gets barely enough powerful attacks to just be Low, in my opinion. But it's outclassed by many things, has serious Speed problems, and can't take physical hits well at all to compensate for that.

Espeon - High
Availability - Relatively early (Castelia City)
Notable Moves - Psychic, Morning Sun, Shadow Ball, Grass Knot, Hyper Voice, Signal Beam, Reflect, Light Screen, Work Up (to be replaced with Calm Mind when you get the chance)
Stats - Awesome special attack and speed. Very good special defense. Low HP and physical def.

- Description -
It hits very hard. Expect a neutral Psychic to KO a lot of stuff. Gets usable coverage, and a good amount of support moves as well. Needs to evolve at level 21 to get Psybeam or it will lack STAB until PWT or level 37, but that's easily done if you save the stat boosting items you find around, keep it in your party with a Soothe Bell for a while and give it one or two massages. Makes VERY good use of Reflect and Light Screen, people tend to overlook these moves but mind that ingame, you only need one at a time, depending on what you're facing. Just swap TMs. Base 130 special attack and 110 speed, with endgame STAB at level 37 is enough to make it High, in my opinion.

+ Super cute
+ High offense and reliable special bulk
+ Murders Elesa's frail pokes with STAB Psybeam if you have it (Not to mention Synchronize), and later on it works against any Gym Leader that does not resist Psychic
+ Gets just the right coverage (Shadow Ball for Ghosts, Signal Beam for Darks and other Psychics)
+ Very high speed allows an easy use of Reflect or Light Screen
- Needs a little babying early on, you'll want to keep it low on level to get Psybeam, unless you want to wait until PWT to learn it.
- Struggles with Steel types
- Later in the game, it gets outclassed by Starmie's superior coverage (Psychic still hits way harder than Starmie's, though)
- Physically frail, you will need the help of Reflect

Not doing Umbreon cause I don't like it.

[Tsumiki]

[1/3] Low Swoobat, Decent Movepool and Typing save it from bottom imo

[1/3] Lower Middle Flareon

[1/3] High Espeon. I'd like to point out that Espeon is better than Starmie if you're looking for a Psychic type in general. It's more outmaneuvered than outclassed.

I'd like to actually suggest going low for Whimsicott; the lack of an offensive presence really harms it ingame. Also, the mentioned Sleep Power (or the lack of thereof) really cripples it as a Grass Type Annoyer Pokemon.*

[edonub]

[1/3] High Espeon. I'd like to point out that Espeon is better than Starmie if you're looking for a Psychic type in general. It's more outmaneuvered than outclassed.

Bear with me not being english, that's what I meant xD. Starmie has a lot more options, I DID mention that Espy's Psychic is still way stronger.

I'd like to actually suggest going low for Whimsicott; the lack of an offensive presence really harms it ingame. Also, the mentioned Sleep Power (or the lack of thereof) really cripples it as a Grass Type Annoyer Pokemon.*

Uhm after looking at the current tiers again, lower middle is packed with actually decent pokes... so yeah by those standards Whimsicott should go low. Fixing that.

[azeem40]

Meh, cute shouldn't be a positive. That is subjective.

[Dragoniteftw]

[2/3] Low Swoobat - foldingscreen, dragoniteftw

[2/3] Lower Middle Flareon - foldingscreen, dragoniteftw

[2/3] High Espeon (I wish you could get magic bounce before E4 and it'd definitely be top) - foldingscreen, dragoniteftw

[1/3] Low whimsicott - dragoniteftw

[azeem40]

I 2/3 Whimsicott in low. He may be fast, but lack of coverage in its moves makes it a bad choice.

[Aurath8]

Confirm ALL the tierings!

Swoobat for Low [3/3]. Unless it has Simple(+2/+2 Calm Minds ftw) it's terrible.

Whimsicott for Low[3/3]. No offensive presence.

Flareon for Lower-Middle [3/3]. It just about scrapes Lower-Middle because of its sheer power.

Espeon for High [3/3]. Its ridiculous in the mid-game with Psybeam, hitting harder than anything until you reach the mid 30s where tons of pokemon reach their final stage.

Stoutland for Upper-Middle [2/3]. STAB Takedown is pretty cool but its somewhat lacking in sheer stats towards the endgame.

[Tsumiki]

Edtted the OP. And just so it doesn't feel like a glorified bump...

Banette - Bottom Tier
Availability - Mid Late (Strange House)
Notable Moves - Shadow Sneak, Shadow Claw, Return, Sucker Punch, Will-O-Wisp, Thunderbolt
Stats - Great Atk, Average SpA. Lacking elsewhere

+ It... Has great Atk
- Has no Physical moves save it's STAB and Return (Dark gets pretty much the same coverage so..)
- Walled by both Rock and Steels types for the most part
- Frail on both sides of the spectrum

[azeem40]

I 2/3 Banette in low. It can't even take a neutral hit.

[Aurath8]

I 2/3 Banette in low. It can't even take a neutral hit.

Don't you mean [1/3]? Anyway, Banette has worse defences than Cincinno and its speed is pretty bad too. Bad defences and speed are the worst combo you could hope for. It doesn't even deserve Low because, if it manges to get off an attack it won't be the most powerful in the world as Shadow Claw isn't the strongest move ever. He'll just KOed next turn meaning all he does is sometimes manage to dent the opponent.
Banette for Bottom [1/3].

[azeem40]

Don't you mean [1/3]? Anyway, Banette has worse defences than Cincinno and its speed is pretty bad too. Bad defences and speed are the worst combo you could hope for. It doesn't even deserve Low because, if it manges to get off an attack it won't be the most powerful in the world as Shadow Claw isn't the strongest move ever. He'll just KOed next turn meaning all he does is sometimes manage to dent the opponent.
Banette for Bottom [1/3].

I meant to say Bottom lol. Guess it is 2/3 now.