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Thread: •Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

  1. #276
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    I'm okay with Lower Middle simply because of Adaptability boosted Water STAB. Crunch+Superpower give perfect coverage as well. [1/3] or [2/3] (dunno what Aura Sensai means by "lower tier", if low or lower-middle)

    Guess what, MORE FISH!

    Alomomola - Bottom
    Availability - midgame (any dark spot in the sea after you get Surf in route 6)
    Notable Moves - Waterfall, Wake-Up Slap, Return, Bounce, Protect, Wish, Toxic, Soak
    Stats - Massive HP, good Defense, mediocre Attack and Speed, terrible Special Attack and Defense

    - Description -
    With its great HP stat backed by a decent typing and okay defense, it can effectively tank most physical hits. Sadly, "Walls" ain't that great ingame, specialized ones in particulars (its special bulk is horrible). Makes for pretty much the only viable user of Soak, but lacks any Grass or Electric move to score cheap SE hits... It's pretty much a water type Audino, with a movepool oriented mostly on support. It's actually an awesome Toxic staller, except stalling is boring as hell ingame.

    + Huge HP turns it into a fantastic Wish user (if you don't like spamming items in battle). It also gets Protect via level up (no PWT farming needed). Yay gimmicks
    + Soak can let you use Toxic on anything, including Steel and Poison types. YAY GIMMICKS
    + Wish, Protect, Toxic and Waterfall/Dive (post elite4) makes for a pretty solid tank/support set.
    - Pure tanking and toxic stalling is a long and tedious way of winning a battle, and it's pretty much anything this poke's got.
    - Poor coverage moves do not redeem its mediocre Attack stat in any way.
    - Cannot take special hits. Carrying a pure wall in your team is already a burden ingame, but a pure PHYSICAL wall? Even worse.

  2. #277
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    lolAlomomolalol for Bottom [1/3]. Walls aren't really suited for ingame.

    Garbodor - Bottom Tier
    Availability - Midgame (Route 4 B2, Route 5/16 W2)
    Notable Moves - Gunk Shot, Return, Drain Punch, Seed Bomb
    Stats - Good attack, average defences and speed, low Special atk

    - Description -

    +Can get STAB Gunk Shot as early as Driftveil City thanks to Move tutors.
    -Must rely on an inaccurate move as it doesn't learn Poison Jab.
    -Requires heavy shard investment to get much of its moves.
    -Really lags behind in the early 30s before it evolves into Garbodor and gets Drain Punch.
    -Doesn't get Drain Punch until Humilau city, forced to rely on the bad coverage Gunk Shot Return and Seed Bomb provide.
    -Ugly as sin.

    Again, nothing special with Garbodor. He's basically Muk but with worse stats(bar speed) and no elemental punches.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
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  3. #278
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    3/3 Stoutland Upper Middle

    3/3 Jellicent Upper Middle

    Bronzong - Lower Middle Tier
    Availability - EndGame unless you can trade for a Pokemon with Waterfall(Abundant Shrine)
    Notable Moves - Sunny Day,Rain Dance,Zen Headbutt,Gyro Ball,Iron Head,Rock Slide,Hypnosis,Light Screen,Reflect,Iron Defense,Toxic
    Stats - Great Defense and Sp.Defense,Average Attack and Sp.Attack,Below Average HP and terrible Speed


    +Great Defensive stats and typing.
    +Can Hit hard with Zen Headbutt.Also Gyro Ball+Speed reducing nature+Macho Brace hits hard.Rock Slide provides coverage against Fire types.
    +Performs well against Marshal.
    +Learns Sunny Day and Rain Dance via Level up to support weather teams.
    +Good abilities which negate one of its weakness.
    +Can act as an annoyer with moves like Hypnosis,Confuse Ray and
    -Found Late in the game.
    -Outclassed by Metagross in everything except Sp.Defense.Also outclassed by Ferrothorn in use of Gyro Ball due to its lower speed.
    -Not too useful in important battles.
    -Bland Attacking Movepool

    Beartic - Low Tier
    Availability - Mid-Late Game(Route 7 Winter only)
    Notable Moves - Icicle Crash,Superpower,Aqua Jet,Rock Slide,Shadow Claw
    Stats - High Attacking stats,Low Speed.All other stats are average.


    +Useful against the first two gyms it gets to face(i.e.Skyla and Drayden) as well as the Champion.
    -Evolves late for a weak Pokemon.Requires constant babying up until then.
    -Poor Coverage
    -Outclassed by other Ice types available later in the game.
    -Low Speed and Average Defenses means it will more often than not be OHKO'ed.
    -Ice typing means it will only resist Ice moves.
    Last edited by amittal12; 12th November 2012 at 6:06 AM.
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  4. #279
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    You forgot to include Light Screen, Iron Defense, Toxic, and Reflect for notable moves. I 1/3 Bronzong in lower-middle. It has great defense and decent offense, but in-game, I feel as if offense matters quite a bit more than Defense. Besides, even Bronzong will get worn down with repeated hits.
    Last edited by azeem40; 12th November 2012 at 6:05 AM.
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  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post
    You forgot to include Light Screen, Iron Defense, Toxic, and Reflect for notable moves. I 1/3 Bronzong in lower-middle. It has great defense and decent offense, but in-game, I feel as if offense matters quite a bit more than Defense. Besides, even Bronzong will get worn down with repeated hits.
    While what you said is true,I have only mainly included the STAB moves as it can hit hard compared to the other walls out there.
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  6. #281
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    [2/3] Bottom Alomomola. It should be mentioned it can actually take a Special hit or two thanks to it's ridiculous HP stat (assuming it isn't a Super Effective Hit). That doesn't make up for it's pathetic offense and coverage, but it's still there

    [1/3] Bottom Garbodor. Muk wants his bff with him

    I'm honestly kind of tempted to say Low for Bronzong. For one, it requires 20~25 levels of grinding to be on par with the rest of your party and that alone really cuts it down. It only really has Zen Headbutt / Return / Gyro Ball / Rock Slide to work with for coverage. I'm exculding Bulldoze because by this point a non-STABed Base 60 move really isn't going to cut it. It's defenses are also somewhat mitigated when you consider it's going to be taking *hit every turn and endgame is filled with hard hitters and the fact it'll be about 10 levels lower than everything else means it won't be taking hits as well as it could be.*

    Also saying Beartic should be Lower Middle. Babying is really minimal when you think about the fact that the darker patches of grass yield a Cubchoo as low as 33 25% of the time. This means you'll need four levels at the very most which can easily be achieved by giving it the EXP Share and going through the Route it's found in (or the one after if you haven't evolved by then). Yes, it has a to of weaknesses, but 95 / 80 / 80 defenses aren't as bad as you may think and it's a matter of keeping it away from it's weaknesses which shouldn't be all that hard with half-decent teammates. Icicle Crash / Rock Slide / Superpower / Aqua Jet is a very solid moveset that can hit quite a bit for Super Effective damage as well. As you've mentioned, it also has the bonus of being immediately useful with Skyla and Drayden. So yeah, I'm going to say Lower Middle

  7. #282
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    Garbodor Bottom [2/3]. Agree with Bronzong as Low [2/3]. Beartic Low as well [1/3]. It's an Ice type with base 50 speed. Gonna take SE hits left and right, Aqua Jet is weak without STAB and won't avoid you getting hit at least once per poke. Unless you're facing Reuniclus or something... (which will probably live a hit and ohko with focus blast but that's another story lol)
    As for Bronzong, it is pretty annoying to find it only after you get Waterfall at the Victory Road, but only at level 37 or so, when the average wild poke on Victory Road is like lv50. And to be honest, when you're so close to the Elite 4, making additions to the team is pretty annoying already, but this case in particular is pretty bad. It's slow and has no recovery, and throughout the elite 4 it will be taking plenty of neutral hits (fighting/dark/ghost) and super-effective ones as well (plenty of coverage fire/ground moves). So unless you like Toxic and item spamming, not the best thing to have around THIS late. Its only real attac, Gyro Ball, is unreliable and has 5 PP.

    MORE WALLS!
    Gliscor - Upper Middle
    Availability - Mid-late game (Route 11) - Razor Fang found in route 11 as well
    Notable Moves - Acrobatics, Night Slash, Bulldoze/Dig, X-Scissor, U-Turn, Rock Slide, Sky Uppercut/Brick Break, Aqua Tail, Swords Dance, Toxic, Roost
    Stats - Impressive physical bulk, above average attack and speed, average special defense, very low special attack.

    - Description -
    Good typing and stat distribution paired with an awesome physical movepool with just the ingame TMs, as well as access to Swords Dance make it a very solid choice. Lack of STAB Earthquake until after the Elite 4 hurts an otherwise awesome poke (that's why it's not High or even Top).

    + As soon as you get it, you can make a full moveset using pretty much all the good TMS found this far. It only gets better later on
    + It's a wall with base 95 attack and speed and access to roost, meaning you CAN use one without burning items every two seconds and actually doing some damage.
    + Does good against Team Plasma, barring the random Cryogonals. Raw physical bulk lets it tank Drayden's pokes as well. Ultimate counter to Marshall at the E4 thanks to its unique typing.
    - Though coverage is impressive, no Earthquake until the post-game limits you to Acrobatics as your only really powerful attack. Special mention to Dig though, especially if paired with Toxic.
    - Typing gives it two immunities and plenty of resistance, but leaves it weak to Water and 4x weak to Ice. Can NOT take a super-effective hit if it's Special (or if it's Ice). Won't do anything good against the last Gym battle, of course.

    NOTE:
    Though this review is based on the Sand Veil variants, it's worth mentioning that you can find Immunity Gligars in Hidden Grottos which will turn into Poison Heal Gliscors. Finding what you want in Hidden Grottos though, is very time consuming and luck based.
    Poison Heal Gliscor with a Toxic Orb is easily one of the most broken pokes ingame though, if you happen to find one. Immunity to status + massive health regen every turn means you will never faint if you avoid Ice attacks.

  8. #283
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    Crustle - Upper Middle
    Availability - Mid Game(Desert Resort)
    Notable Moves - Shell Smash,Rock Polish,X-Scissor,Rock Slide,Bulldoze,Shadow Claw,Aerial Ace,Stealth Rock,Flail
    Stats - High Defense,Good Attack,Average Sp.Defense and HP,Bad Sp.Defense and Speed


    +Shell Smash makes him an absolute monster.
    +Destroys Skyla,Caitlin and Grimsley.
    +Sturdy guarantees the use of Shell Smash at least once enough to sweep entire teams.Can also use Sturdy+Flail against unsuspecting opponents for massive damage.
    -After one Shell Smash,it becomes easy to take down,especially foe those with Priority moves.
    -Since Earthquake is Post-Elite 4,It has to rely on the weak Bulldoze/two turn Dig for coverage against Steel types.

    Also Crobat for Upper Middle(2/3).
    Last edited by amittal12; 12th November 2012 at 4:46 PM.
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  9. #284
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    It's okay, super effective Bulldoze after a Shell Smash is enough to wipe steels out, at least ingame... It also gets Rock Polish and good STAB moves early on, so it's not a burden to train. As for abilities, since it's pretty bulky I'd rather use Shell Armor for crit insurance. Flail is pretty gimmicky as it requires you to purposely get down to 1 HP, plus it's unSTABed and has no super effective coverage unlike Reversal, so you're usually better off using Shell Smash. You should put Aerial Ace among the important moves, because Fighting types wall the Bug+Rock combo as well. [1/3] upper middle. Shell Smash is broken but typing/speed is far from impressive and coverage is not the best.

  10. #285
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    I think Bronzong deserves Low [2/3]. Its requires a ton of grinding and comes very late in the game making it a massive burden just to get it on the team. During the E4 it will have to take a lot of strong neutral hits apart from Caitlin and is useful against Iris. Still, its most powerful move, Gyro Ball has little PP and Bronzong cant take hits all day. Ultimately, it just comes too late and is just not good enough to really make an impact like Metagross.

    Gliscor for Upper-Middle [1/3].

    Crustle for Upper-Middle [2/3]. Only just though, as Bug/Rock is a horrid defensive typing(you resist Normal and...Poison).
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  11. #286
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    Gliscor upper-mid [2/3] loads of options with it, can be used offensively with sword dance if you so please. Available late and no earthquake keeps it from high imo.

    Crustle upper-mid [3/3] shell smash is the only thing stopping me from putting it into middle. Bug STAB is always nice for the E4 though.

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  12. #287
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    Aggron - Upper Middle Tier
    Availability - Mid-Late (Mistralton Cave)
    Notable Moves - Automize,Rock Polish,Heavy Slam,Iron Head,Rock Slide,Aqua Tail,Elemental Punches
    Stats - Phenominal Defense and High Attack.Lacklustre everywhere else.


    +Has High amount of resistances.
    +Massive Movepool to choose from.
    +Can Alleviate its low speed with Automize or Rock Polish
    +Sturdy allows it to take at least one hit and set up.
    -Destroyed by Clay and Marshall.Also struggles against Marlon.
    -Gets Heavy Slam very late,so has to rely on Iron Head or inaccurate Iron Tail for STAB.Also one of its selling point is its egg move Head Smash combined with Rock Head.
    -Evolves a bit late.
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    i was meant to do this a few days ago but just gonna help clear up some of the outstanding ratings in the op now.

    conkeldurr: top. i was toying with the idea of high but bulk up at level 29 pushed it over the edge for me. [3/3]
    lilligant: upper mid. a pokémon that can only really use grass attacks to cause any damage and doesn't fare well against many gym leaders is gonna have a really hard time getting any better than upper mid from me, no matter what it can set up or how hard it can hit. [2/3]
    crobat: this is a tough one. it's quick but not much else although it does get an alright physical movepool and acrobatics is pretty lethal. x-scissor is cool too. but it's still lacking a bit of a punch in general... still has its uses i guess. for its outstanding speed and possession of one of very few 110/100 attacking moves, i'm going for upper mid. [3/3]
    vanilluxe: lol. low for sheer lack of being able to do anything other than get an early ice beam. [3/3]
    weavile: too late to have much real use for but it has its place as a pretty strong sweeper i guess. still, throughout the game it's useless because of how late it is regardless of how strong it is, so i'm swinging between middle and lower middle here... its two uses against the elite four (i forgot that giant chasm isn't post-game now) are enough for me to say middle. so yeah, [3/3].
    lopunny: hahahahahahahahahahahaha. bottom. [3/3]
    basculin: it's not bad imo. it's pretty easy to get a hold of one and 2x aqua jet puts a mark in anything relatively mid-game. crunch is nice too when it's not all that easy to get decent dark-type moves fairly early on. so honestly, since it's so able to deal a good amount of damage at least for a little while, i'd like to suggest it go middle. [1/3]
    alomomola and garbador: bottom. [3/3], [3/3]
    bronzong: way too irritating and slow-playing to be worth training to have in your team, even more so given how late you get it. low. [3/3]

    ok i'll do the others later lol, need to run now.

  14. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by amittal12 View Post
    Aggron - Upper Middle Tier
    Availability - Mid-Late (Mistralton Cave)
    Notable Moves - Automize,Rock Polish,Heavy Slam,Iron Head,Rock Slide,Aqua Tail,Elemental Punches
    Stats - Phenominal Defense and High Attack.Lacklustre everywhere else.


    +Has High amount of resistances.
    +Massive Movepool to choose from.
    +Can Alleviate its low speed with Automize or Rock Polish
    +Sturdy allows it to take at least one hit and set up.
    -Destroyed by Clay and Marshall.Also struggles against Marlon.
    -Gets Heavy Slam very late,so has to rely on Iron Head or inaccurate Iron Tail for STAB.Also one of its selling point is its egg move Head Smash combined with Rock Head.
    -Evolves a bit late.
    I 1/3 it being Upper Middle. If only it didn't get Heavy Slam so late it could be High, because it would leave a dent in a vast majority of Pokemon. Combined with Sturdy, it can probably get an Autotomize up and outspeed most of the Elite 4 and potentially do leavy damage before going down.
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  15. #290
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    Been looking at this page for a couple of days while on my second run through of White 2, so I thought I could give this a try.

    Chandelure - Upper Middle/High Tier
    Availability - Mid-Late (Celestial Towere)
    Noteable Moves - Shadow Ball, Flamethower, Energy Ball, Calm Mind, Will-O-Wisp, Psychic, Fire Blast, Pain Split.
    Stats - Amazing Special Attack, Good Defense and S. Defense. Decent Speed. Weak Hp and Horrible Attack.


    + Best Non Legandary S. Attack in the game.
    + Small but decent movepool.
    + Dusk Stone found in Strange House for evolution.
    + Gets STAB Shadow ball soon after capture.
    + Useful against most of E4 and Team Plasma.
    - Stuck grinding Litwick for sometime(evolves lvl 41).
    - Struggles in remaining gym battles.
    - Could use some better speed.
    Last edited by EagleEye; 14th November 2012 at 6:01 AM.

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctourniquet View Post
    lilligant: upper mid. a pokémon that can only really use grass attacks to cause any damage and doesn't fare well against many gym leaders is gonna have a really hard time getting any better than upper mid from me, no matter what it can set up or how hard it can hit. [2/3]
    Just wondering, but have you used Lilligant in a playthrough? Grass attacks are pretty much all it needs, tbh; after a Quiver Dance (and you should have no trouble setting those up since Lilligant is already fast and has Sleep Powder and Leech Seed which help with setting up), STAB Giga Drain or STAB Own Tempo Petal Dance hit like a truck. You get it pretty early, you can evolve it at Lv 26 (after it learns Giga Drain as a Petilil, but before Lv 28 when it learns Quiver Dance as a Lilligant), so at around the fourth Gym you have a Pokemon with base 110 SpA, base 90 Speed, one of the best set-up moves in the game in Quiver Dance, and a great moveset in Leech Seed, Sleep Powder and Giga Drain (until you can get Petal Dance). Yes, it may look like mono-Grass is terrible, but speaking from experience, Lilligant is brilliant (and I do think that, while theorymonning is all well and good, personal experience with a Pokemon holds a lot of weight) and doesn't fade away whatsoever, so I'm still sticking with High.

    Regarding Chandelure, I think those ten or so levels that it spends as Litwick really hurts it so I'm leaning more towards Upper-mid. I want to wait for more opinions before casting a vote, though.

    As for more approvals:

    [2/3] Steelix in Mid. I think it can make-do with its moveset, it has a good typing, and good stats. *shrugs*

    Regarding Gliscor, when do you get the item it needs to evolve (Razor Fang iirc)? I think that's what will affect its tiering most of all.

    Aaaaand for Aggron, I think Upper-mid sounds good. [1/3] It evolves from Aron within like three levels which is nice, and if you can get it before Skyla, it has a gym to do some training on. Sturdy's a great ability especially when setting up soooo yeah.

  17. #292
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    Updated the OP (which took forever >.>)

    [2/3] Upper Middle Aggron. Sturdy guarantees a Rock Polish which lets it outpace a fair bit of the game and pull off a sweep. Shame it doesn't get Head Smash though.

    [1/3] Upper Middle Chandelure. As zhanton has mentioned, the levels it stays as a Litwick really hold it back. However, it is very useful during the E4 campaign, destroying two of the four and outright resisting another.

    [2/3] Middle Basculin for basically the reasons Alex has mentioned. It's Notable Spe stat in conjuncture with a 2x Aqua Tail really hurts everything that doesn't resist it and it also gets Dark + Fighting coverage in Superpower / Crunch for all the coverage it really needs
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 14th November 2012 at 7:48 AM.

  18. #293
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    It is 3/3 for Aggron, not 2/3.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

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  19. #294
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    It is 3/3 for Aggron, not 2/3.
    So it is. I'd like to take this opportunity to ask you to use the brackets. Otherwise, missing your approvals are pretty easy. Obviously I've done it, and zhanton has done it (unless he made a typo, in which case derp)

    More importantly. While playing through Black 2, I've managed to get to Driftveil. Upon talking to the Move Tutor I was told that Lucario does not get Iron Head.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post
    It is 3/3 for Aggron, not 2/3.
    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    So it is. I'd like to take this opportunity to ask you to use the brackets. Otherwise, missing your approvals are pretty easy. Obviously I've done it, and zhanton has done it (unless he made a typo, in which case derp)
    Whoops, sorry about that azeem, I completely missed your post somehow :s but yeah, brackets in the future

    More importantly. While playing through Black 2, I've managed to get to Driftveil. Upon talking to the Move Tutor I was told that Lucario does not get Iron Head.
    Does that really affect it that much? How's Lucario doing with Force Palm + Dig + Return? I would've thought those three moves with work decently but I guess it does put a dent in its credentials as a top-tier Pokemon, slightly.

    Going back to Gligar, Serebii has the Razor Fang listed as being on Route 11, and Bulbapedia states that you require Waterfall to get the Razor Fang (Marriland doesn't mention the Razor Fang in his walkthrough so I guess Bulbapedia's correct here), which means you can't evolve Gligar until after Marlon...

    I'll [2/3] Chandelure for Upper-mid for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

    Also, [3/3] Basculin in Middle. I didn't realise how surprisingly versatile it is. I can't say I expected a piranha to learn Superpower. :P

    [2/3] Beartic for Low. It just doesn't stand out at all, really. Not much else to say there...


    Cinccino - High
    Availability - Mid-game (after Elesa, I believe)
    Notable Moves - Tail Slap, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Wake up Slap, Return, Aqua Tail, Sing
    Stats - Good speed and attack. Frail, though

    You get a Skill Link Minccino in the Route 5 Hidden Grotto, guaranteed, which is fabulous. Skill Link works great with Cinccino, ensuring that Tail Slap, Rock Blast and Bullet Seed all hit for 5 turns which is quite a bit of power. Technician Cinccino is pretty good as well.

    + Great abilities. Skill Link is a great ability for Cinccino, making its core moves extremely powerful, and Technician works well too.
    + Good attack and speed
    + Its movepool suits its playing style
    + Can evolve soon after you catch it
    - Quite frail (75/60/60)
    - Requires Heart Scales for Bullet Seed and Rock Blast

    Thoughts? Especially interested in hearing from those who have used Skill Link Cinccino, because it seems pretty interesting.

  21. #296
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    Does that really affect it that much? How's Lucario doing with Force Palm + Dig + Return? I would've thought those three moves with work decently but I guess it does put a dent in its credentials as a top-tier Pokemon, slightly.
    Mine actually also has Ice Punch and Bone Rush > Dig. It's doing well enough. Obvs Return is being used more than Force Palm but this is still early enough in the game where a neutral 102 BP move from Lucario still 2HKOs everything in the game. It'll get Drain Punch around the time where Return starts to lag, so no problems here. That being said, having a non-STABed Normal move for it's main offense move does put it down a bit. Not sure if it's enough to lower it down to High, but it's there

    Going back to Gligar, Serebii has the Razor Fang listed as being on Route 11, and Bulbapedia states that you require Waterfall to get the Razor Fang (Marriland doesn't mention the Razor Fang in his walkthrough so I guess Bulbapedia's correct here), which means you can't evolve Gligar until after Marlon...
    [1/3] Middle assuming this is true. Gligar's stats just aren't good enough to play the part of game where it's found. Even STABed Acrobatics won't be doing all that much coming from 75(?) Base Atk

    While I haven't played Skill Link Cincinno myself, I can see it going either High or Top. Tail Slap is basically a Base 190 Powered move being fired from a Base 95 Atk. I suppose it's main drawback is it's low Accuracy, but you have the Wide Lens by this point giving you 93.5 Acc which is more than enough imo. Not to mention Rock Blast and Bullet Seed are also guaranteed 125 BP moves. The Heart Scales aren't really an issue imo as you find them pretty easily by using the Dowsing Machine while travelling. Heck, I've got three atm. I suppose it's main flaws are being unable to hit Steel Types very hard (is forced to use a Base 60 Power Wake Up Slap...) and a supposedly late Evolution. You get the Shiny Stone at Route 6 which means you're forced to play with a frail Mincinno until Early-Mid 30s. I'll say [1/3] High for now.

    Sandslash - Lower Middle / Middle Tier
    Availability - Mid Early (Route 4)
    Notable Moves - Earthquake, Rock Slide, X-Scissor, Swords Dance, Super Fang
    Stats - Good Atk and Great Def. Middling Spe, HP. Bad Special Stats

    +Gets Natural Earthquake (Lv. 46)
    +Evolves at a very early Level (Lv. 22)
    -Can't take a Special Hit
    -Slow enough where it'll take a hit more often than not
    -Basically Excadrill Lite
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 14th November 2012 at 10:49 AM.

  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhanton View Post
    Cinccino - High
    Availability - Mid-game (after Elesa, I believe)
    Notable Moves - Tail Slap, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Wake up Slap, Return, Aqua Tail, Sing
    Stats - Good speed and attack. Frail, though

    You get a Skill Link Minccino in the Route 5 Hidden Grotto, guaranteed, which is fabulous. Skill Link works great with Cinccino, ensuring that Tail Slap, Rock Blast and Bullet Seed all hit for 5 turns which is quite a bit of power. Technician Cinccino is pretty good as well.

    + Great abilities. Skill Link is a great ability for Cinccino, making its core moves extremely powerful, and Technician works well too.
    + Good attack and speed
    + Its movepool suits its playing style
    + Can evolve soon after you catch it
    - Quite frail (75/60/60)
    - Requires Heart Scales for Bullet Seed and Rock Blast

    Thoughts? Especially interested in hearing from those who have used Skill Link Cinccino, because it seems pretty interesting.
    [1/3 High] I'm currently useing a Chinccino and really like it. I was lucky enough to get a Adament Skill Link Cinccino. So far it's been great mid game, but I don't know how well it will do late game since I'm not that far yet. I would also add Hone Claws to the Notable Moves though. I plan on useing that once I get to E4.


    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    Sandslash - Lower Middle / Middle Tier
    Availability - Mid Early (Route 4)
    Notable Moves - Earthquake, Rock Slide, X-Scissor, Swords Dance, Super Fang
    Stats - Good Atk and Great Def. Middling Spe, HP. Bad Special Stats


    +Gets Natural Earthquake (Lv. 46)
    +Evolves at a very early Level (Lv. 22)
    -Can't take a Special Hit
    -Slow enough where it'll take a hit more often than not
    -Basically Excadrill Lite

    [1/3] Lower Middle. I'm also currently useing one of these in my game. It was usefull as soon as I caught it and evolved right away. I caught one holding a Quike Claw and that has also been usefull on it as well to help with speed. It worked well vs Nimbasa and Mistralton gyms. I don't see it being very good though later on in the game. It might ok vs Team Plasma but that's it. Excadrill is just a much better option. I always thought that Sandslash should have evolved into Excadrill.
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  23. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhanton View Post
    Whoops, sorry about that azeem, I completely missed your post somehow :s but yeah, brackets in the futureDoes that really affect it that much? How's Lucario doing with Force Palm + Dig + Return? I would've thought those three moves with work decently but I guess it does put a dent in its credentials as a top-tier Pokemon, slightly.Going back to Gligar, Serebii has the Razor Fang listed as being on Route 11, and Bulbapedia states that you require Waterfall to get the Razor Fang (Marriland doesn't mention the Razor Fang in his walkthrough so I guess Bulbapedia's correct here), which means you can't evolve Gligar until after Marlon...I'll [2/3] Chandelure for Upper-mid for the reasons I stated in my previous post.Also, [3/3] Basculin in Middle. I didn't realise how surprisingly versatile it is. I can't say I expected a piranha to learn Superpower. :P[2/3] Beartic for Low. It just doesn't stand out at all, really. Not much else to say there...Cinccino - HighAvailability - Mid-game (after Elesa, I believe)Notable Moves - Tail Slap, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Wake up Slap, Return, Aqua Tail, SingStats - Good speed and attack. Frail, thoughYou get a Skill Link Minccino in the Route 5 Hidden Grotto, guaranteed, which is fabulous. Skill Link works great with Cinccino, ensuring that Tail Slap, Rock Blast and Bullet Seed all hit for 5 turns which is quite a bit of power. Technician Cinccino is pretty good as well.+ Great abilities. Skill Link is a great ability for Cinccino, making its core moves extremely powerful, and Technician works well too.+ Good attack and speed+ Its movepool suits its playing style+ Can evolve soon after you catch it- Quite frail (75/60/60)- Requires Heart Scales for Bullet Seed and Rock BlastThoughts? Especially interested in hearing from those who have used Skill Link Cinccino, because it seems pretty interesting.
    It is my fault. Im sorry for not using the brackets.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

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  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleEye View Post
    [1/3 High] I'm currently useing a Chinccino and really like it. I was lucky enough to get a Adament Skill Link Cinccino. So far it's been great mid game, but I don't know how well it will do late game since I'm not that far yet. I would also add Hone Claws to the Notable Moves though. I plan on useing that once I get to E4.
    Cincinno doesn't learn Hone Claws, which is a shame really. It does get Work Up though. Also its it would [2/3].

    Also Heart Scales aren't an issue, not just because there's tons of them, but Heart Scales(and a few other items like Pearls) found on beaches regenerate every day in Gen 5. Cincinno for High [3/3].

    Sandslash for Middle [1/3]. Lvl 22 is a very early evolution level and it already has STAB Magnitude, which 85% of the time has 50-150 power, most commonly being 70. Low speed, no special stats really hold it back though.

    Chandelure just falls under High in Upper-Middle [2/3]. Its an excellent pokemon in the end, but Litwick seriously sucks. 50/55/55 defences. 65 spatk. 20 speed. It's about as useful in battle as, well a lit candle. Only acting as a dead weight as it scrambles around the legs of fully evolved pokemon for 10 levels or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  25. #300
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    Lucario is always good even with the not so great force palm as its main STAB. Its typing is just too great, and it has awesome stats considering how early you can potentially evolve it (I evolved mine at level 19). Just when Force Palm starts to feel weak, it get Swords Dance at level 37 and it can setup on a LOT of things thanks to its resistances. It lags behind a bit only on the last two gyms where the lack of a really strong move starts to get annoying. Not that it needs one for Drayden's gym, just switch it on a dragon move and Copycat to oneshot all of Drayden's pokes LOL (or get Ice Punch if you have the shards for it). Then it gets Aura Sphere and Close Combat in time for the Elite 4 unless you're really, really underleveled. Still Top for me.

    Sandslash is completely outclassed by Excadrill, which also gets EQ earlier and has much better attack and speed. I think pure Ground is better than Ground/Steeel though and it does have its advantages right of the bat (makes dealing with Elesa a lot easier). It has solid stats for a phyiscal wall and it gets STAB Earthquake eventually, something not many things can have, coming off base 100 attack. Plus look at those eyes.
    Eviolite Sandshrew for Top [1/3]. It d'awwwwws your opponent to death. :O

    Jokes aside I'm okay with Lower Middle [2/3]

    About Cincinno, I won't rate. It seems to work for pretty much everyone but me. It was one of the things I most wanted to try out, got an adamant one with heavy attack EV training, and past level 40 or so, I basically stopped using his STAB. Unless it was a super effective rock blast or bullet seed, STAB Tail Slap was almost NEVER enough to oneshot stuff, which usually meant instant OHKO on Cincinno because it's just so frail. There's plenty of frail hard hitters with better typing and coverage, so to me it shouldn't go as high as Upper Middle. Frickin Zangoose hits harder anyway with Return, gets Swords Dance and Close Combat, and has a wide array of TMs he can use for the last slot (Shadow Claw, X-Scissor, Rock Slide, depending on what you face). Your choice on what to use if you want a Normal type in your team. Rock/Grass is pretty darn bad coverage to back up Normal.
    so yeah if I were to rate it it would be "DIE *****HOLE I WASTED AN HOUR ON YOUR EVS" tier, but sadly there's no such tier .

    High [1/3] for Chandelure. If you really have problems with it as a Litwick, you're grinding in the wrong places... The grass right outside Celestial Tower is full of pokes that Litwick completely walls, not to mention Route 12 (Heracross/Pinsir/Roselia) which you can reach as soon as you beat that weird cave dungeon with Bianca. If it takes less than five minutes of "effort" with a lucky egg on, it's not a burden, at least IMHO. Past that, typing is great for an offensive poke, speed is above average (at least ingame) and STAB Fire Blast will OHKO pretty much everything. Shadow Ball/Energy Ball are two very solid coverage moves you can get right away too. Unlike some rats I won't mention, it does have the raw power to be useful on an endgame team.

    About Gligar, yes you need Waterfall (and there's a boulder to push too iirc). Not that I found it to be a real problem, it deals with team Plasma very efficiently as a Gligar and evolves in time for Victory Road/E4.
    Last edited by edonub; 14th November 2012 at 6:36 PM.

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