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Thread: •Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

  1. #426
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    I'll go ahead and [3/3] Octillery and Sawk for their respective tierings. I don't know anything about Amoonguss or Throh so really can't speak for them.


    Altaria - Low Tier
    Availability - Mid Late (Route 7)
    Notable Moves - Dragon Pulse, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Aerial Ace, Cotton Guard, Bulldoze
    Stats - Fairly Bulky. Lacking Offenses and mediocre Spe

    + Defenses and Typing let it take a hit or two when it needs to
    + Gets unresisted neutral coverage with Dragon Pulse / Fire Blast
    - Lacking movepool, only having Aerial Ace / Dragonbreath to work with until Dragon Pulse (Lv. 48 / Move Tutor)
    - Doesn't get what little coverage it has until basically endgame
    - Doesn't benefit from the one boosting move it gets unless the player is willing to put up with Aerial Ace
    - Can't boost it's SpA, where it gets most of it's coverage

    I want to like Altaria, I really do. It simply has nothing going for it but decent bulk. Look where bulk landed Umbreon
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 3rd December 2012 at 3:10 AM.

  2. #427
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    ^You're forgetting one thing which makes Altaria stand out from others:Cotton Guard.Cotton Guard raises the Defense stat by three stages which makes it even more bulky.Although it doesn't help it offensively it can help it to tank hits.Also Bulldoze can be mentioned as it would be Altaria's main coverage move before getting Flamethrower.
        Spoiler:- Completed and Current Playthroughs:

  3. #428
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    ^Whoops, forgot about Cotton Guard (and Dragon Dance for that matter ). That being said, I'm questioning whether Cotto Guard really makes Altaria that much better. I'll add it to the Post regardless. Bulldoze isn't really going to be doing much without setup when it probably needs two Dragon Dances to do any notable damage.

  4. #429
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    I know you hate Fly, Chumiki... but it's 50% more powerful than Aerial Ace. You'e seriously handicapping Altaria by not using it. Also, if you want Dragon Pulse earlier, you can use the Lentimas Town Move Tutor. Roost could be viable too if you happen to have Yellow Shards handy. And Fire Blast is gotten much earlier than Flamethrower, so I'd have thought it'd be more useful (for the Steels of Team Plasma).
    100% of information in signatures on this forum involving percentages is false. If you feel as cheated by this atrocity as I do, don't you dare copy this into your signature.
    Hold on... if this percentage was correct at the time of print, that means the actual percentage of false information is less than 100% if this signature is included. Which means that... no! I've become a slave to the system!!

    I speedrun DS Pokémon games. Currently, I speedrun Pokémon White 2, and I've also ran Pokémon Pearl in the past. If you want to see Pokémon games pushed to their limits (or if you want to do so yourself!), check out the Pokémon Speedruns website, and if you want to watch me, catch me on my Twitch channel.

  5. #430
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    You also forget that Dragon/Fire (that is, Dragonbreath/Pulse + Fire Blast/Flamethrower) is unresisted by everything not called Heatran, which, for the purposes of this tiering, does not exist.

    Given all of this, I'd say Altaria would be better off in Low than in Bottom.

    EDIT: While I'm here:

    Simisear - Lower Middle [3/3] (edonub, zhanton, Excitable Boy)
    Volcarona - Middle [1/3] (Aurath8) / Upper Middle [2/3] (edonub, Excitable Boy)
    Amoonguss - Low [3/3] (fire r a g e, Aurath8, Excitable Boy)
    Cofagrigus - Low [3/3] (edonub, zhanton, Excitable Boy)

    I'll go with the reigning theorymon for those guys.

    EDITEDIT: ...Did you change my Sawk write-up?
    Last edited by Excitable Boy; 2nd December 2012 at 6:37 PM.

  6. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    EDITEDIT: ...Did you change my Sawk write-up?
    Looks like it. On this subject, I disagree with the "Only really useful for the Grimsley fight" bit, because Sawk definitely beats four of Iris's Pokémon one-on-one at full HP (Hydreigon, Lapras, Aggron and Archeops (with Reversal or Counter, both of which work great with Sturdy)).
    100% of information in signatures on this forum involving percentages is false. If you feel as cheated by this atrocity as I do, don't you dare copy this into your signature.
    Hold on... if this percentage was correct at the time of print, that means the actual percentage of false information is less than 100% if this signature is included. Which means that... no! I've become a slave to the system!!

    I speedrun DS Pokémon games. Currently, I speedrun Pokémon White 2, and I've also ran Pokémon Pearl in the past. If you want to see Pokémon games pushed to their limits (or if you want to do so yourself!), check out the Pokémon Speedruns website, and if you want to watch me, catch me on my Twitch channel.

  7. #432
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    Altaria is okay, definitely not bottom material. Considering Fire Blast + Dragon Pulse are obtainable quite early, Fly dealing decent damage and Dragon/Flying being a good type (oddly enough, not many ice types around this game, if you exclude a couple Cryogonals here and there...), it should go low or even lower middle... I won't rate cause I havent tested one. Cotton Guard is cool, but it wastes a moveslot (you'll want Toxic somewhere, even Roost if you don't use healing items). Critical hits happen, boosting your defense alone is not THAT great.

    Throh's Revenge is unreliable as it doubles the damage only if you're hit first. Throh is a weaker, late-game Conkeldurr which lacks Drain Punch. IMO Low is okay considering how much competition it faces (Sawk itself is much easier to use, and hits harder).

  8. #433
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    EDITEDIT: ...Did you change my Sawk write-up?
    I do tend to try to rewrite them whenever possible in order to keep them in a somewhat similar format text-wise. I'll use yours if you have a problem with this, though.

    @Altaria - Eeh, I can see why it'd be Low. Editting the Post.

    Also, I'll edit the complete approval tierings later today, posting at school x)

  9. #434
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    I kinda do, since you altered the meaning of my points.

    If it's a formatting thing, why don't you just say what the format is, and tierers can format themselves?

  10. #435
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    I kinda do, since you altered the meaning of my points.

    If it's a formatting thing, why don't you just say what the format is, and tierers can format themselves?
    I totally deserve that for not reading your OP before typing Sawk up ;-;

    It's more to do with how the posts are written; the writing style I guess you could call it. It's no excuse for my sloppy rewriting, but I personally really dislike having multiple styles in a single post. I did use several others Post's earlier so theres hypocricy in what I say.. but it really can't be helped given how tight my schedule was.*

  11. #436
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    Mamoswine - Middle Tier
    Availability - Very Late(Giant Chasm)
    Notable Moves - Ice Fang,Earthquake,Rock Slide,Ice Beam,Blizzard,Hail
    Stats - Great Attack,Good HP,Average Defense and Speed,Low Sp.Attack and Sp.Defense


    +Can hit 9 types for Super Effective Damage with its STAB alone.
    +Can be evolved as soon as caught.
    +One of the few Pokemon to learn Earthquake naturally.
    +Helpful against Iris and some Pokemon of Elite 4.
    -Found Late in the game.
    -Doesn't get a powerful and reliable Physical Ice STAB.
        Spoiler:- Completed and Current Playthroughs:

  12. #437
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    [1/3] Mamoswine in middle. Great Atk stat and STAB EQ pretty early. Can learn Superpower at Lentimas Town for even better coverage alongside Ice and Ground.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

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  13. #438
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    Mamoswine - Middle [2/3] (azeem40, Excitable Boy)
    Altaria - Low [1/3] (Excitable Boy)

    Some Musketiers:

    Cobalion - High
    Availability - Late-game (Route 13)
    Notable Moves - Iron Head, Sacred Sword, Swords Dance, X-Scissor, Volt Switch, Superpower, Zen Headbutt, Bounce
    Stats - Decent mixed offenses, great Defense, passable Special Defense, great Speed

    + Comes at a comparatively high level with some of its best moves, making it an instant standout
    + Has a good offensive typing and a better defensive one, coupled with legendary stats
    + Volt Switch hurts Water-types that resist its STAB, making it a solid choice for any fight
    + Rips apart Plasma and contributes against many other major bosses, especially Grimsley
    - Comes late, and its 580 BST is undermined somewhat by lack of EVs
    - Doesn't hit amazingly hard without Swords Dance or a Justified boost

    I chose between Upper-Middle and High for Cobalion, but I felt that the raw stats, typing, and movepool outweighed the more modest power and the late arrival (which isn't too terribly late, as it still has two Gyms and both Frigates to run amok in). Not Top, but High is good for it.

    Virizion - Upper-Middle
    Availability - Late-game (Route 11)
    Notable Moves - Giga Drain, Sacred Sword, Swords Dance, Energy Ball, X-Scissor, Zen Headbutt, Bounce, Superpower, Seed Bomb
    Stats - Good mixed offenses, passable Defense, great Special Defense, great Speed

    + Comes at a comparatively high level with some of its best moves, making it an instant standout
    + Sweeps Marlon and Grimsley, and can help out against Plasma and Iris
    + Legendary stats help compensate for somewhat sub-par typing
    + STABs are decent enough, and tutors are available for better neutral coverage if necessary
    - Comes late, and its 580 BST is undermined somewhat by lack of EVs
    - Doesn't hit amazingly hard without Swords Dance or a Justified boost

    What makes the difference between these two is the secondary typing. Steel pairs surprisingly well with Fighting offensively, resisted only by some set combos of Water/Electric/Fire and Flying/Ghost/Bug/Psychic, many of which are hit by Volt Switch or X-Scissor (which, being TMs, can be swapped between fights). Grass/Fighting is far worse, and practically mandates tutors for good neutral coverage. Defensively, I don't think I need to explain Steel > Grass.

    Also, while a bit of a more minor point (and irrelevant if you tutor Seed Bomb), Virizion's natural and TM Grass STABs are all special, meaning they're not boosted by Swords Dance. That means that if Virizion isn't hitting hard enough, it has to either switch almost exclusively to Fighting STAB to use Swords Dance, or use Work Up to boost its Special Attack. Since Iron Head is physical and entirely free, Cobalion doesn't have this problem.

    EDIT: Have a list of everything without tiering submissions for no reason whatsoever.

        Spoiler:- List:


    It's shorter than I expected, actually. Preliminarily glancing at the list, I can't imagine any of these Pokes going above Middle, besides I guess Pinsir.

    I counted 21 on that list, compared to 43 on Aurath8's list from the 25th. That's 22 tiering nominations in eight days, plus we've done some confirmations. We should probably be able to finish by next Saturday (the 15th).

    EDITEDIT: Looking back, I think I was too hard on Virizion. It fights 90% of the things Cobalion can fight, since the number of Poisons, Flyings, and Bugs isn't too large from the point you get it. There's basically just the Poisons on the Frigates, Shadow's Accelgor, some of Shauntal's 'mons, Caitlin's Sigilyph, and random stuff that random mooks have. Virizion does about as well as Cobalion vs. Drayden, since worse Defense is balanced by no weakness to coverage moves, and it's obviously better against Marlon. Similar against E4, and better against Iris because Special Defense, except for Haxorus. Still worse due to worse defensive typing, but only by a single tier, not two.

    Cobalion for High, Virizion for Upper-Mid. If Cobalion is Upper-Mid, then Virizion should be Middle, and vice versa. They're similar, but not equivalent.
    Last edited by Excitable Boy; 4th December 2012 at 1:59 AM.

  14. #439
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    I think Reuniclus could be in Upper Middle. It has super high SpA, good Def, and good coverage moves.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

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  15. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post
    I think Reuniclus could be in Upper Middle. It has super high SpA, good Def, and good coverage moves.
    Eh, Reuniclus suffers from longish pre-evo stages that can't really take hits (65/50/60 defenses going into Skyla, worse than Flaaffy). Once it hits Reuniclus, yeah, its defenses kick in, but bad defenses and worse Speed isn't exactly a winning combination as Solosis and Duosion.

    In terms of coverage, "good" is an... odd word to use. The problem isn't so much that they don't get moves as it is that they don't get special moves. 65 base Attack is equivalent to stuff like Espeon and Shinx, rendering the almighty elemental Punches of holiness irrelevant. Psychic/Ghost/Grass/Bug is basically the extent of its coverage in the main story, but only Psychic gets STAB, and it's all still utterly walled by the game's various Steels. I guess Thunder is an option, but if you're considering that, your coverage sucks.

    It's a case of crap early-game and good end-game. I guess it -might- be Upper-Mid if you pick it up at Strange House to miss 90% of the crap early-game, and have the Eviolite free for the last 10%. Psychic hasn't been a god type since RBY, though, and it really only shines against Marshal among bosses.

    I guess I'll say this: Is Reuniclus comparable to Aggron, Arcanine, Crobat, Crustle, Gliscor, Jellicent, Lapras, Metagross, Roserade, Simipour, Stoutland, Vaporeon, and Zangoose? Or is it more comparable to Basculin, Eelektross, Emboar, Gigalith, Golduck, Magmortar, Mienshao, Sawk, Simisage, Swanna, Tangrowth, Terrakion, Walrein, Weavile, and Weezing? I'd say the latter; I'd be interested to hear why you'd say the former.

  16. #441
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    Hmm, you make a good point. Middle looks like the best option.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

    - TI, Ready For Whatever
    Paper Trail.

  17. #442
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    Heck, while I still have these Reuniclus tabs open, I may as well do a write-up.

    Reuniclus - Middle
    Availability - Mid-game (Route 5/16)
    Notable Moves - Psyshock, Pain Split, Psychic, Reflect, Light Screen, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball, Signal Beam
    Stats - Mediocre HP (as Solosis/Duosion)/Awe-inspiring HP (as Reuniclus), worthless Attack, mediocre Defenses, huge Special Attack, terribad Speed

    + Hits destructively hard with STAB moves; neutral hits are devastating
    + Has good bulk as Reuniclus
    + Can skip crap stage by catching at Strange House or Route 9
    - Not particularly noteworthy against bosses not named Marshal
    - Both slow and frail as Solosis/Duosion, making it difficult to use mid-game
    - Has minimal coverage, and it can't touch Steel-types

    That's about it, I think. I know that under stats, I separated Reuniclus's HP from that of its pre-evos, but it's a pretty big distinction; you're stuck with the pre-evos for half of its existence if you pick it up at Route 5/16, and the difference is massive - base 65 versus base 110, a boost of an average of 37 points upon evolution by my calculations.

    And awe-inspiring is a great adjective.

  18. #443
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    I think we've gone too soft on ratings (OR we started too hard). Cobalion High and Virizion Upper-Middle doesn't make sense with Terrakion being obviously the superior choice: 129 att/108 speed and nearly unresisted dual STAB with swords dance and solid bulk overall (both Virizion and Cobalion have either bad defense or special defense, while Terrakion has special attack as its lowest stat), yet it sits on the Middle tier. Anyway, I would go with Middle for Cobalion [1/3] (sure it's good, but if you want a Fighting/Steel poke you can catch a Riolu at the very beginning of the game with an arguably better movepool and offensive stats, that's a HUGE inferiority complex to overcome), and Middle for Virizion [1/3] because of worse typing and moveset options, but it's still unique with solid stats and serves pretty much the same role as Cobalion. They've got pretty much the same amount of pro's and con's. Sure Cobalion's typing might look better for the elite four but then you will notice how dealing with Chauntal which you should "resist" is pretty hard (Chandelure, Jellicent, they actually resist YOU and can hit you hard), the only physical Elite 4 actually hits you for SE damage (Marshall) negating your supposed "physical bulk" and the champion and the psychic Elite 4 has plenty of coverage moves to deal with both grass/ and steel/. so yeah, better typing but not really.
    Terrakion should definitely go Upper-Middle when/if we do some retiering. It's just too good and has an awesome offensive typing, so finding it lategame is not that big of an issue.

    Reuniclus middle [1/3], the rating sums up my opinion about it.
    Mamoswine Lower Middle [1/3], it's found waaaaaay too late. You needed an Ice type before for Drayden, and between Giant Chasm and the Elite 4 Champion there's TM13. Lower Middle only because it's bulky, reasonably fast and gets Earthquake. But it's not that great of an option to fit in your team this late in my opinion, with pokes like Krookodile and Excadrill being around (and available much eariler).




    Anyway:

    Lunatone - Bottom
    Availability - Mid-late game (route 13)
    Notable Moves - Psychic, Rock Polish, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Earth Power, Charge Beam, Cosmic Power, Signal Beam
    Stats - Good Special Attack, decent Special defense, mediocre HP, Defense and Speed. Low Attack.

    + Low speed kind of compensated by Rock polish
    + Good ability turning one of your weaknesses into an immunity
    + Just enough moves to make a decent offensive set
    - Lots and lots of weaknesses to pretty much everything you face lategame: Water, Steel, Bug, Dark, Ghost... (Being neutral to Fighting with bad defense doesn't help with Marshall either)
    - Requires Rock Polish to be of any use, not enough bulk to afford being slow. Lacks raw power to oneshot pretty much anything not weak to Psychic
    - Mediocre stats considering how late you find it
    - Lacks STAB special Rock move (come on GF, frickin Power Gem to the Gigalith line and not to this?)

    Solrock - Bottom
    Availability - mid-late game (route 13)
    Notable Moves - Stone Edge, Rock Polish, Rock Slide, Zen Headbutt, Explosion, Acrobatics, Return, Cosmic Power
    Stats - Good Attack and Defense, mediocre HP, Special Defense and Speed, low Special Attack


    + Low speed kind of compensated by Rock polish
    + Good ability turning one of your weaknesses into an immunity
    + Just enough moves to make a decent offensive set
    - Lots and lots of weaknesses to pretty much everything you face lategame: Water, Steel, Bug, Dark, Ghost... Will not live any strong special hit regardless.
    - Requires Rock Polish to be of any use, not enough bulk to afford being slow. Lacks raw power to oneshot pretty much anything not weak to Psychic/Rock
    - Mediocre stats considering how late you find it
    - Unlike Lunatone, it gets dual STAB, but all its options are not 100% reliable


    Both would have been decent options, if you could catch them as early as it was in R/S/E. Sadly it's not the case, they have subpar stats and pretty much everything you find around at this point (Heracross, Tangela, etc.) is flat out better. Can't see any reason why one should use them, at all. Tried them both, they're both disappointing.
    Last edited by edonub; 4th December 2012 at 3:14 AM.

  19. #444
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    Solrock - Bottom [1/3] (Excitable Boy)
    Lunatone - Bottom [1/3] (Excitable Boy)

    agreement is agreeable

    Quote Originally Posted by edonub View Post
    I think we've gone too soft on ratings (OR we started too hard).
    Different raters have had different opinions, either favorably theorymoning or unfavorably theorymoning. It's both, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by edonub View Post
    Cobalion High and Virizion Upper-Middle doesn't make sense with Terrakion being obviously the superior choice: 129 att/108 speed and nearly unresisted dual STAB with swords dance and solid bulk overall (both Virizion and Cobalion have either bad defense or special defense, while Terrakion has special attack as its lowest stat), yet it sits on the Middle tier.
    I was under the impression that we were tiering each Pokemon based on its own individual merits, and that Pokemon weren't penalized for having a similar role to another 'mon. I agree with you that Terrakion shouldn't be Middle, though, and I didn't put it there.

    Quote Originally Posted by edonub View Post
    Sure Cobalion's typing might look better for the elite four but then you will notice how dealing with Chauntal which you should "resist" is pretty hard (Chandelure, Jellicent, they actually resist YOU and can hit you hard), the only physical Elite 4 actually hits you for SE damage (Marshall) negating your supposed "physical bulk" and the champion and the psychic Elite 4 has plenty of coverage moves to deal with both grass/ and steel/. so yeah, better typing but not really.
    /Steel-typing isn't so much for bosses as it is for mooks. Most of them don't carry coverage, meaning there's quite a few things that Cobalion walls more comfortably than Virizion can, which means it can set up an SD better to overcome its offensive deficiencies and still have health to spare, or even just 2HKO with Iron Head/Sacred Sword and eat the attack that way. More mooks, especially Plasma, are more physically inclined, which is where that comes in.

    Quote Originally Posted by edonub View Post
    Terrakion should definitely go Upper-Middle when/if we do some retiering. It's just too good and has an awesome offensive typing, so finding it lategame is not that big of an issue.
    Agreement is agreeable, though tbh I'd personally retier like 20% of the list.

  20. #445
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    IMO, even though it is found late game, the sheer power of its attacks and coverage and typing should put it in High.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

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  21. #446
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    Re: Questionable Tiers: Basically everythin that was said between edonub and Excitable Boy are valid points. Something else worth mentioning is that most of the Earlier Pokemon Tiered didn't have other Pokemon within the same tier to be compared with. This has caused some well, questionable tierings. All will hopefully be fixed at 2.0 (which I know I keep pointing to which may come off as annoying ^^;

    Solrock and Lunatone Bottom [2/3]; there's really nothing else to be said about these.*

    Middle Reuniclis sounds fair enough [2/3]

    I'm not sure that Cobalion is good enough to warrant being a tier higher. Virizion also has the Marlon battle as it's been mentioned, and Virizion can also plow through Half of Shautel's team, which Cobalion can't take credit for. I'm going to say [1/3] Upper Middle for both of them as of now, but I'll probably end up changing my votes some time in the future if I spend more time pondering on it.

    Also [3/3] Low Throh

  22. #447
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    Even when it comes to dealing with mooks, Giga Drain gives Virizion reliable HP recovery, so it works pretty damn well. Grass/fighting/rock has less neutral coverage but more super-effective hits than steel/fighting/rock.

    What I meant anyway with the terrakion thing, is that something should be available relatively early to be considered high/top tier, proving itself useful for a good chunk of the adventure. Else, it would be Top for Terrakion and High for Cobalion/Virizion no question asked. I think that's the point you're missing.

  23. #448
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    Yeah I'm definitely not feeling Middle for Reuniclus, especially given Gothitelle is Lower-mid. Reuniclus is actually less bulky than Gothitelle (110/75/85 compared to 70/95/110), and since Reuniclus is far slower than Gothitelle (30 compared to 65), it's going to have to take far more hits. I'm not sure how Reuniclus can be a tier above Gothitelle just for having higher SpA and access to a recovery move, so [1/3] lower-mid for Reuniclus.

    [3/3] bottom for Solrock and Lunatone, though.

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    Absol - Middle Tier
    Avalability - Mid Late (Route 13)
    Notable Moves - Sucker Punch, Night Slash, Swords Dance, Superpower, X-Scissor, Stone Edge, Psycho Cut, Zen Headbutt
    Stats - Fantastic Atk. Mediocre everywhere else

    + Sucker Punch is an amazing move. STABed Priority with 80BP? Yes please!
    + Movepool that covers everything it really needs to. Dark + Fighting is amazin neutral coverage and X-Scissor / Zen Headbutt rounds up coverage nicely
    + A terrific Pokemon to bring to the E4. Destroys two of the four and can mess with Grimsley with Superpower
    - Decent-at-best defenses really start to show during the later parts of the game
    - Not too useful pre-Elite Four.*
    - Relying on Superpower for coverage means it'll be either be switched around a lot or will have to use Swords Dance, which isn't the easiest thing due to it's lackluster defenses


    Grumpig - Low / Lower Middle Tier
    Availability - Mid Late (Reversal Mountain)
    Notable Moves - Psychic, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Power Gem
    Stats - Great SpD, good SpA. Notable HP, Speed and lacking elsewhere

    + Evolved immediately after capture meaning no babying
    + Has all the moves it needs to function
    + Gets Psychic via TM when captured
    - Physically frail. Doesn't help that Dark and Bug types ingame tend to rely on Atk more than SpA
    - Can't touch Steel types, who resist it's entire offensive movepol
    - While good, it's SpA will start to lag endgame when compared to other endgame Pokemon
    - Psychic isn't the best STAB, only being useful against Marshall

  25. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhanton View Post
    Yeah I'm definitely not feeling Middle for Reuniclus, especially given Gothitelle is Lower-mid. Reuniclus is actually less bulky than Gothitelle (110/75/85 compared to 70/95/110), and since Reuniclus is far slower than Gothitelle (30 compared to 65), it's going to have to take far more hits. I'm not sure how Reuniclus can be a tier above Gothitelle just for having higher SpA and access to a recovery move, so [1/3] lower-mid for Reuniclus.

    [3/3] bottom for Solrock and Lunatone, though.
    I don't think being slower should make or break a Pokemon. It's HP makes it more bulky than Gothitelle.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

    - TI, Ready For Whatever
    Paper Trail.

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