•Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

[Tsumiki]

Originally Posted by azeem40

This proves how VASTLY different in-game is. Cuz otherwise, Gothitelle is awesome in competitive.

and what does this have to do with anything? Please refrain from posting anything not related to the tiering

Anyway, I think Gothiella deserves Lower Middle. 95SpA isn't as bad as you make it out to be, and Psyshock right off the bat is really helpful. It evolves at decent levels, around the time it starts to lag. I'd think that Psyshock / Signal Beam / Energy Ball / Shadow Ball is a pretty solid moveset as well. Plus, it can also take a hit. So yeah, [1/3] Lower Middle for me

I'll edit in Beartic later today, swamped with revision

[TotalPotato]

I think the criterion for a tier approval needs to be clarified. Right now, it takes four supporters to approve a Pokémon if the original tier nomination is backed, but only three if it isn't.

[azeem40]

Payback and Fire Punch need to be on the notable moves for Conkeldurr. Payback helps with its slow Speed in hurting Pokemon pretty badly.

[azeem40]

and what does this have to do with anything? Please refrain from posting anything not related to the tiering

Anyway, I think Gothiella deserves Lower Middle. 95SpA isn't as bad as you make it out to be, and Psyshock right off the bat is really helpful. It evolves at decent levels, around the time it starts to lag. I'd think that Psyshock / Signal Beam / Energy Ball / Shadow Ball is a pretty solid moveset as well. Plus, it can also take a hit. So yeah, [1/3] Lower Middle for me

I'll edit in Beartic later today, swamped with revision

I think you are overreacting. Every little thing I say you have a problem with. Also, Signal Beam doesn't cover what Ghost+Fire already covers in-game.

[Tsumiki]

I think you are overreacting. Every little thing I say you have a problem with. Also, Signal Beam doesn't cover what Ghost+Fire already covers in-game.

Your post was basically spam, and I don't feel the need to tolerate it. You have to ask yourself why I berate you in the first place. I'm not sure how Gothitelle would get Fire save possibly HP Fire. We've agreed not to use HP so..

[amittal12]

Eelektross - Upper Middle Tier
Availability - Mid-Late(Chargestone Cave)
Notable Moves - Discharge,Thunderbolt,Wild Charge,Crunch,Flamethrower,Acrobatics,Signal Beam,Aqua Tail,Giga Drain,Drain Punch,Elemental Punches
Stats - Great Attack and Sp.Attack,Average HP,Defense and Sp.Defense,Low Speed

+Does not have any weakness due to its ability Levitate.
+Great Movepool and coverage.
+Dominates Skyla and Marlon just after being caught.Also useful against Elite 4 with its vast coverage.
-Very Low Encounter Rate makes it tough to find unless you're very lucky.
-Stuck as a Tynamo till Lv.39.

[Excitable Boy]

...Fire Punch need to be on the notable moves for Conkeldurr.

I feel like I should point out that Fire Punch gets overlapping coverage with Rock move and STAB Fighting, both of which are learned via level-up. The only Pokemon against whom Fire Punch is a better option than either Hammer Arm or Rock Slide are Durant, Heracross, Escavalier, the Budew line, the Foongus line, and the Croagunk line, which makes it difficult to justify spending the Shards and the moveslot for Fire Punch.

[B]Eelektross - Upper Middle Tier

I find it difficult to justify Upper Middle for a Pokemon that's practically deadweight until Drayden. Skyla walks all over Tynamo, as she outspeeds it by a ton and carries secondary STAB moves.

There's also the point about slowness, blah blah inefficient yada yada healing

[Zhanton]

Yeah I don't think Eelektross can cut it in Upper-mid; its Speed and suckiness as a Tynamo really hurt it, even though it has a cool movepool. I think you can skip the Tynamo stage completely and catch an Eelektrik in Seaside Cave, if that makes any difference. [1/3] for Mid, I think, although it could possibly go in Lower-mid.

@TotalPotato; re: the approval system, mmm you bring up a good point (and I was actually thinking about that when Lilligant was being tiered, because had someone who wanted it for Upper-mid suggested the tiering, it would've received the 3 votes for High and only the 2 for upper-mid. That said, we're on the home stretch (sort of) so I'm not sure if that needs to be fixed now.

I agree with Tsumiki in that Gothitelle isn't that bad, so [2/3] Lower-mid.

[3/3] Bottom for Klingklang. It has a bad movepool (although its boosting move (can't remember if Shift Gears or the other one) is pretty cool) and evolves far too late.

Upon reading edonub's post, I'd like to change my Cofagrigus vote from Lower-mid to Low. [2/3] Low

[Tsumiki]

re:re: the approval - Basically what zhanton said. I'll have to rework it for 2.0 of the thread where we start editting the tiering but we'll get to that when we get to that.

[2/3] Middle Eelektross, which is a shame because Eelektross could otherwise be the best Electric type (after Magnezone ) if it was slightly faster and didn't have to spend so much time as a Tynamo. I swear that things movepool is as extensive as Nidoking/Nidoqueen; and they could learn just about every other TM back in FR/LG lol

I'm going to assume you mean Lower Middle on Gothitelle? Hit me with a VM to reply to mine if you actually mean Upper Middle

[edonub]

I think it's ok if the rater's vote doesn't count, usually if as many as three people disagree with your rating it means you've forgotten something important.

[3/3] Lower-middle Gothitelle, it's actually pretty strong as a Gothorita and while it's not fast, it falls in the "faster than the slow pokes" category if this makes any sense so it's not Low material. It actually starts to fall behind as soon as you evolve it, you will hardly KO anything that's not weak to Psychic once you get to the high 4x. Charge Beam should be mentioned as pseudo-coverage and decent (not to say "only") bosting move at her disposal. With the lack of Munna/Musharna during the main game, it also finds her unique niche.

[3/3] Middle Eelektross. I'd like to bring a couple points though
No reason to catch one in Chargestone Cave and have it as a burden when you can wait a little and catch level 37 Tynamo at the Seaside Cave with roughly the same -annoying- encounter rate. That's just two levels of babying with Exp. Share before you get a fully evolved Eelektross if you don't want to wait for better level up moves, so this definitely should not be a point. 85/80/80 defenses, no weakness and awesome coverage makes it reliable as well. It's not fast but it won't be easily KO'd.
The only annoying part is, if you want to make the best out of it, you have to wait up to level 54 to learn Coil. A set of Coil, Thunderpunch/Wild Charge, Drain Punch and Fire Punch basically gives you perfect coverage (not gonna find wild Giratina's anytime soon) and pseudo recovery (there's so many things weak to Fighting you're bound to have a chance to use Drain Punch at some point). If you're impatient, then just all out attacker works (also, Thunder Wave should be an option).
So yeah, to me it goes Middle because of the babying you need AFTER it turns into an Eelektrik to learn Coil which suits Eelektross perfectly. Not because you got to lose three minutes with an Exp. Share to evolve it.

[amittal12]

Octillery - Middle Tier
Availability - Late(Undella Bay)
Notable Moves - Surf,Scald,Waterfall,Ice Beam,Signal Beam,Flamethrower,Energy Ball,Psychic
Stats - Good Attack and Sp.Attack,Average HP,Defense and Sp.Defense,low Speed

+Good Offensive stats.
+Great Movepool which covers all its weaknesses.
+Sniper is a useful ability that helps it to get more KOs.
-Difficult to find with 5% encounter rate.
-Slow and frail means it wouldn't enjoy taking hits.

[OceanicLanturn]

Golurk - Upper Middle
Availability - Endgame (Victory Road)
Notable Moves - Superpower, Ice Punch, Earthquake, Shadow Punch, Zen Headbutt, Gyro Ball
Stats - High Attack, decent defenses, low speed

+ Can learn all three punches
+ Quite useful with its move for the Elite Four
+ High Attack, also quite 'tanky'
- Comes extremely late in game, so grinding required
- Lacks a good, strong Ghost type STAB
- Superpower and Ice Punch need shards

[azeem40]

Eelektross's speed is not the downside to it TBH. It would be its ineffectiveness as a Tynamo. Although, it is only 10 levels to put up with, but it still doesn't deserve Upper Middle. I'd say Lower Middle or Low. It has a HORRIBLE movepool as a Tynamo (I mean, 3 electric moves and tackle...).

I also don't think shard investment on one important move is enough of a downside. I mean, you can easily farm shards in Relic Passage. Also, what? It does have a good Ghost STAB in Shadow Punch (90 BP after Iron Fist). What other Ghost move is worth it on Golurk? None. I [1/3] Golurk for Upper Middle. It gets an awesome typing, awesome coverage moves, and has an amazing atk stat. It is not too hard to get this right before the Pokemon League because it is easy to train.

[edonub]

Octillery - Middle Tier
Availability - Late(Undella Bay)
Notable Moves - Surf,Scald,Waterfall,Ice Beam,Signal Beam,Flamethrower,Energy Ball,Psychic
Stats - Good Attack and Sp.Attack,Average HP,Defense and Sp.Defense,low Speed

+Good Offensive stats.
+Great Movepool which covers all its weaknesses.
+Sniper is a useful ability that helps it to get more KOs.
-Difficult to find with 5% encounter rate.
-Slow and frail means it wouldn't enjoy taking hits.

The flaws you pointed out are bigger than what you're making them look like. There's plenty of water types with huge coverage to pick form which are just flat out better (Starmie, Lapras, etc).
I'm going with Low because its stats are similar to Seviper's making it fall into the "mixed attacker with mediocre bulk and bad speed" category. Low [1/3].

Golurk has already been rated I think.

[Excitable Boy]

Golurk doesn't need Ice Punch, anyway. Neutral Earthquake deals equivalent damage to SE Ice Punch, and Flying types are hit by Rock Slide anyway. The only Pokes that Ice Punch hits harder than QuakeSlide would be Grass types, which Golurk shouldn't be fighting anyway, as well as some random stuff like Altaria and Gligar/Gliscor, the former of which is hit just fine by Rock Slide and the latter of which are basically non-existent when Golurk shows up. There's also Iris's Hydreigon, but throwing Golurk against that is ill-advised because Surf.

Seriously, guys, just because the elemental Punches exist doesn't mean they're a good option on everything that gets them. They're generally weaker than most other forms of coverage, and the Shards could be better spent on stuff like Signal Beam for Volcarona or Iron Head for Lucario. About half the Pokemon who have the elemental Punches listed as good moves should not be running them.

Since I kinda feel bad about just criticizing:

Sawk - Middle Tier
Availability - End-game (Route 23)
Notable Moves - Close Combat, Bulldoze, Dig, Rock Slide, Payback, Reversal, Brick Break
Stats - Excellent Attack, decent Speed and Defenses, irrelevant Special Attack

+ Outstanding Attack stat; excellent last-moment pick for a Fighting-type
+ Movepool is compact, but has everything Sawk needs; everything not called Close Combat is just token coverage
+ Very useful against all of Grimsley's team, and can defeat Iris's Hydreigon with Sturdy, as well as her Aggron
+ Easy to find one with Sturdy
- Death fodder for two E4 members
- Comes late, giving it little time to gain EVs and sock butt
- Close Combat has low PP, necessitating a weaker STAB move for frequent use

It's an amazing Poke, but dat availability. Gave it the same tier as Weavile and Mienshao.

and

Throh - Low Tier
Availability - End-game (Route 23)
Notable Moves - Superpower, Bulldoze, Vital Throw, Ice Punch, Bulk Up, Storm Throw, Dig, Rock Slide, Payback, Reversal
Stats - Good Attack, better Defenses, bad Speed, irrelevant Special Attack

+ Stats make it an effective tank
+ Tanks its way through Grimsley, especially with Bulk Up, and can do well against Iris's team due to its bulk
+ Can run Guts + Flame/Toxic Orb to trade staying power for offensive power
- Death fodder for two E4 members
- Comes late, giving it little time to gain EVs and throw butt
- Lacks reliable, easily spammable STAB
- Will nearly always get hit first due to bad Speed

[azeem40]

No, Ice Punch is worth it over Rock Slide. It hits those Flying types a lot harder. Btw, EQ does 150 neutral while Ice Punch does 194 SE. Volcarona hardly needs Signal Beam when it learns Bug Buzz.

[Excitable Boy]

No, Ice Punch is worth it over Rock Slide. It hits those Flying types a lot harder. Btw, EQ does 150 neutral while Ice Punch does 194 SE. Volcarona hardly needs Signal Beam when it learns Bug Buzz.

what are you smoking, and where can I get some

Ice Punch is 75 base power. Serebii, veekun, and Bulbapedia confirm this. SE Ice Punch is 150, I have no idea where you're getting 194. In no universe does Ice Punch hit Flying-types harder than Rock Slide, Rock Slide is the same goddamn base power, the only Flying-types that Ice Punch hits harder are Altaria, Gligar/Gliscor, and Tropius (and Rock Slide is better against Combee/Vespiquen, Delibird, Ducklett/Swanna, Mantyke/Mantine, Wingull/Pelipper, and Yanma/Yanmega, so Rock Slide is actually better coverage but w/e).

Volcarona does need Signal Beam because it doesn't get Bug Buzz until, uh, uh, oh yeah, Lv. 70, meaning without it has no good STAB, again, whole-game versus end-game

Please, please, learn what you're posting about if you're going to post. Your posts are just starting to clutter the thread with falsehoods, statements without backing, and flawed logic.

[edonub]

Iron Fist. Good joob trying to troll someone for writing something "wrong" and making yourself look stupid. There's polite ways of correcting someone, and you have to be right in the first place. The whole last line of your post can be used against your "Rock Slide is better than Ice Punch" theory which is "falsehoods, statements without backing, and flawed logic"

Anyway, I second Middle [1/3] for Sawk, and Low [1/3] for Throh.
too bad Sawk doesn't get caught earlier, it could easily go High if it were available as early as it was on B/W.
Throh is just a weak Conkeldurr without Drain Punch.

[Tsumiki]

re: Elemental Punches - Yes, I am aware that only a handful of the Pokemon who have them listed see some real use out of them. However (as of now anyway...), the Notable Moves section just lists every possible endgame move a Pokemon is able to learn. I may or may not limit these moves to actual moveset moves depending on what the public think when we move onto 2.0

No, Ice Punch is worth it over Rock Slide. It hits those Flying types a lot harder. Btw, EQ does 150 neutral while Ice Punch does 194 SE. Volcarona hardly needs Signal Beam when it learns Bug Buzz.

I really have no idea where all this is coming from. A 2* Ice Punch still deals 150BP as it's originally 75BP, unless *you're talking about the Iron Fist variant. Even then, Golurk doesn't need to hit Flying types hard anyway and QuakeSlide coverage is far superior to Ground + Ice. Volcarona needs Signal Beam. What else is it going to use before it gets Fire Blast? Fire Spin? Gust?

[Excitable Boy]

Iron Fist. Good joob trying to troll someone for writing something "wrong" and making yourself look stupid. There's polite ways of correcting someone, and you have to be right in the first place. The whole last line of your post can be used against your "Rock Slide is better than Ice Punch" theory which is "falsehoods, statements without backing, and flawed logic"

That's still 180, not 194.

Iron Fist also doesn't apply to 50% of Golurks, and isn't detectable without first catching one, meaning it's essentially a dice roll as to whether or not one will have it. If he's going to use Iron Fist as an argument, the least he can do is say so or use correct numbers or supply context instead of being vague and making people guess.