Community POTW #95

[Zachmac]

^Your opponent could just swap out, and thanks to the sleep clause, Gengar would be useless for the rest of the match.

Though this reminds me of Hex/Venoshock on a team with toxic spikes. Those moves could go under other options...

And I think Disable should be slashed for Will-o-Wisp when the sub/disable set is listed. And now that I think about it, Sub/Will-o-Wisp will really pair up well with the Latis, since it helps to cripple Scizor and T-tar...

What she ment was, if you looked at the set, the item was a choice scarf, meaning then you would be locked into mean look, so would have to switch, and would then be a waste of time, as the mean look wouldn't stay.

Oh...sorry about that, then. Items are the last thing my eye goes to.

[Gilligan]

Don't Let The Bed Bugs Bite
nature: modest
ability: levitate
EV: 252 Sp Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
item: black sludge
moves:
Hypnosis
Dream Eater
Psychic
Destiny Bond

[Ilan]

.................

that is a horrible set.



i know this is just to toss ideas around and talk about the pokemon, but that's just bad.

There are always bad sets in POTW but don't go and insult everybody some people even if they are new sometimes have good points so I don't think it hurt anyone if they post.

Like venoshock and hex set which was posted it could be a fun gimmick (but shouldn't be used really for unreliability)

[philzone]

Don't Let The Bed Bugs Bite
nature: modest
ability: levitate
EV: 252 Sp Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
item: black sludge
moves:
Hypnosis
Dream Eater
Psychic
Destiny Bond

Just have to quote this as a reply:

^Your opponent could just swap out, and thanks to the sleep clause, Gengar would be useless for the rest of the match.

[WasSollDas]

I like gengar. It has a great typing (well, kinda) and an ability which helps out a lot.
Problem is, I never use "normal" gengar, you know, sub disable and stuff. So this is the set I use the most:

I'll Take You Down With ME!!!

nature: timid
ability: levitate
IV: 0 Def
EV: 252 Speed, 252 Sp Atk, 4 HP
item: focus sash

Counter
Destiny Bond
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast

I've gotten quite some kills with this guy. If it's used properly, it can easily change the tides of the battle.
The best thing with this set is that it is no longer ruined by pursuit, it USES it.
For example, after you KO a poke or force a switch with gengar, let's say you encounter a scizor.
As it goes for pursuit, you can safely counter and get a KO.
Then, when the next poke comes in, you can use destiny bond to get another KO (although Destiny Bond doesn't work as much as counter.)

[jesusfreak94]

I used that set as a lead in 4th Gen, and it was actually pretty neat. If you played carefully with Counter, Destiny Bond, and your offensive coverage, it wasn't unusual to get 3 or more kills in a game. I haven't had much success with it in 5th Gen, though. There's just too many factors that prevent it from working properly, and there's a bit more Pokemon that can outspeed and kill Gengar before it can use Destiny Bond.

[Chrysaries]

Someone might have said this earlier but it's a conspiracy theory that Gengar is the shadow or ghost of a Clefable :P

[Buuz]

The set i use for my shiny Gengar:

item: focus sash
nature: timid
ability: levitate
- sludge bomb
- thunderbolt
- shadow ball
- destiny bond

[Ghosts of the Forums]

not too useful competitively. especially w/o evs.

[Kraleck]

There are always bad sets in POTW but don't go and insult everybody some people even if they are new sometimes have good points so I don't think it hurt anyone if they post.

Like venoshock and hex set which was posted it could be a fun gimmick (but shouldn't be used really for unreliability)

Glad you mentioned those particular Moves, Ilan. In a Doubles, Triples, or even Rotation Battle with Status Flingers like Stunfisk, Rotom, or Jellicent, Hex and Venoshock are viable on Gengar. The problem with those Moves in Singles is having to rely on weakening an opponent first to use them properly. However, you can easily setup and strike in a single turn in Multi.

Hex also has utility against Rest-Talkers, Poison Healers, Quick Feet-Attackers, and Guts-Attackers as long as they aren't Normal Types. For that reason, a Tox-Stall Offense with teammates is possible in Doubles/Triples. Basically, it allows you to Toxic an opponent with Gengar (or a faster Pokemon) then Hex or Venoshock with your partner (or Gengar). Hex Gengar can pair quite well with Will-o-Wisp + Assurance Weezing in Doubles, but both have issues with Mold Breaker-boosted Earthquakes...

[2406Blackbird]

Either you copied me, or we both have similar minds to think up of the same set

Okay, let's see. I'll try my hand at this one.
Gengar, The Shadow Pokemon
Gengar is great! He has a great special attack and speed. He can take a light damage though, overall, he is frail. Shadow Clefable hasn't moved from his place in OU and for a good reason. He's good.

YOU'RE NOT ME!
Nature:Timid
Ability:Levitate
Evs:252 Sattk 252 Spd 4 HP
Item:Life orb/Black Sludge
Moves:
Hypnosis
Dream Eater/Mean Look
Nightmare
Hex

First off, that item. You could go for Black Sludge but, you've got a healing move. Life Orb can do more damage and Dream Eater keeps your HP from going too low.If you use Mean look go Black sludge, Life orb for Dream Eater. This set is revolves around sleep. Hyponosis sadly, to my knowledge, is Gengar's only sleeping move. 60 Accuracy is risky but, you can't have a sleep set without sleep. Once alseep, you can apply Nightmare for a nice DoT. Dream Eater or Mean Look. Once, you put your enemy to sleep, there's a good chance that they'll switch out. Mean Look stops that from happening. With Dream Eater however, you can do some nice damage, get some yummy healing and rest easy using life orb. Hex can do quite a bit of damage though, don't even think about using it while your enemy is awake.

Counters
Dark types. Steel types. Psyshock Alakazam. Insomnia. Etc. Etc.

[Gilligan]

Just have to quote this as a reply:

That's why he has psychic.

Destiny bond can also be swapped with sludge bomb.

[BLUES.]

Alrighty, so Gengar the troll that could since Gen1.

Gengar:

    Spoiler:- Credits:

Show Spoiler

 
Credits to ~Studio51Chief who's art I googled and posted here without consent
inb4copyrightlawsuit
 

Look up the definition of Viability in the dictionary, know what you will find?
The definition of viability-which Gengar is.
Gengar’s extensive move-pool, wide coverage, and its immunities to ground and fighting moves, Gengar has no trouble getting into play in OU. Base 110 speed and 130 special attack makes it huge powerhouse and one of the fastest in OU. Gengar's downsides are mainly the ever so common Scizor, Scarfed Pokemon, Tyranitar, and most things with priority.
However, Gengar has enough tricks in his bag to get around its weaknesses, and as such here are a couple of sets that will make the most of your Gengar.

IcyWINGar
Gengar (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Icy Wind
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Pain Split

    Spoiler:- Details-1:

Show Spoiler

 
Yes. At fisrt glance, this set is terrible. But this is my own set and I know just how well it can be used. This set was made around BW1, but still works effectively in BW2.
Shadow Ball is the main thing all attacking Gengars will carry. Focus Blast is on the same boat. Now, to explain the Icy wind: Most people, when their Dragonite or Salamence are matched up against Gengar, will set up a Dragon Dance thinking they can set up on your Gengar; however, Icy Wind Says hi, reducing their speed by 1 stage (countering the speed boost from Dragon Dance) and doing about 33% to Dragonites with Multiscale (non-Fat Dragonites), and then netting a KO after multiscale is broken. In the Case of Salamence, if they DONT set up a dragon dance, you get to KO with Icy wind since most Salamence that stay in on Gengar without using Dragon Dance will be Scarfed-and locked into outrage. The speed drop is the main reason for running Icy Wind over HP Ice, especially when the OU meta includes one or two of the t form genies, which are often scarfed. With a little prediction, you can score a speed drop on them and then spam shadowball which will kill their Genie, or if the opponent switches, you will do a decent chunk of damage to the switch in. Granted, the Sash, is often pointless with rocks and sandstorm, but it allows for your to be guaranteed to hit at least one move (except maybe if you use focus blast, which is a pain…). Now to explain Pain Split. While Blissey/Chancey walls Gengar, Gengar also walls the two blobs. As Gengar’s HP stat is significantly lower than the blobs’ HP, Pain Split will keep them at about 65% health, or possibly lower depending on how much Health Gengar has at the moment when you pain split. Pain Split has 42 PP, which allows you to PP Stall them (should your opponent be so patient to sit through the PP stall battle). Another purpose that pain split can serve is to reactivate your focus sash which can be invaluable when your opponent has a scizor. Pain Split has yet another useful function when your Gengar is in against Tyranitar and you cant afford to miss a focus blast or cant switch out safely. Pain split again will reduce T tar’s HP and set up for a revenge kill.
    Spoiler:- Other Tricks :

Show Spoiler

 

Alternative moves:
-Destiny Bond: Gives you more for your fodder which can be useful against scarfed threats that you dont KO after Icy Wind + Shadow ball/Focus Blast/2nd Icy Wind

-Substitute: Gives you a buffer + eases prediction but clashes with the icy wind + sash which is the crux of the set. If you are going for substitute switch Icy Wind to Thunderbolt,

-Thunderbolt: Hits the same pokemon for at least neutral damage most of the time (example: Dragonite/Mence/Thunderus-T/Tornadus-T), and it gives Gengar a more reliable neutral attack against scizor switch ins.
 

 

Parthtaed
Gengar (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Disable
    Spoiler:- Death Trap Spelled Backwords Explained:

Show Spoiler

 

This set is borderline gimmicky, yet it has the ability to counter scizor-That’s right-counter scizor. The most ideal method to do this is to sub as you force a switch. You will then protect to scout the move your opponent’s scizor will use then disable it. Proceed to substitute. And repeat. The main drawback to this set is the sad and very tragic loss of the 70% accurate Focus Miss (Which means it accurately misses 70% of the time). While Focus Miss is almost always a Hail Mary, it still provides perfect coverage with shadow ball at the cost of a gamble. This set is a use at your own risk set, but the ability to destroy scizor demonstrates that Gengar has a lot of toys to play with making him viable.
 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

I might have missed this one, but Will-o-wisp is quite an effective option on Gengar. Most players try to take it out by Pursuit, and most pursuit users are physical pokémon crippled by burn.

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Timid nature
252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Substitute
-Will-o-Wisp

As you come in on something that you know will switch out (like a choice pokémon locked in Earthquake), set up Substitute on the switch to scout. If some Scizor or Metagross comes in, hit it with Will-o-Wisp as it destroys your sub and cripple them for the rest of the game. The substitute eases prediction, and Will-o-wisp means that your foe can't trick you into disabling a move they don't need at that time. The physical attacker is crippled even if it uses a useless move on that turn.

[philzone]

That's why he has psychic.

Destiny bond can also be swapped with sludge bomb.

But TWO moves are then wasted. First, hypnosis gets one use, and has poor accuracy, and dream eater needs a sleeping foe, and due to sleep clause, only one foe can be asleep, and most people use the sleep clause to their advantage, so you then have dream eater being useless.

Sludge bomb may get STAB, but due to coverage, it is unwise for it to be used, possibly a "other option" move.

[sbktdreed]

Special
Item: Choice Specs/Life Orb
Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 172 Speed, 86 HP
Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt

Partners
Earthquake-users
Scrafty
Users of target-redirection moves like Follow Me or Rage Powder.
No Guard-users

Countering
Light Screen-users
High Sp Defense and Attack users of Physical Psychic/Ghost/Dark-type moves like Payback Ferrothorn, Crunch Snorlax, Faint Attack Escavaleir, and Scrafty.

[jesusfreak94]

Night Shade is never really a good choice on Gengar. Like, at all. Gengar has a great base 130 SAtk stat, so you should utilize that with a STAB Shadow Ball. Besides, you can wear Specs and Baton Pass 6 SAtk boosts to Gengar and Night Shade will still do the same damage.

[sbktdreed]

Night Shade is never really a good choice on Gengar. Like, at all. Gengar has a great base 130 SAtk stat, so you should utilize that with a STAB Shadow Ball. Besides, you can wear Specs and Baton Pass 6 SAtk boosts to Gengar and Night Shade will still do the same damage.

My mistake. I already made the change. The reason I brought up Night Shade at all is because it's usefull against pokemon with high sp defense; espically when Light Screen is in effect.

[BLUES.]

My mistake. I already made the change. The reason I brought up Night Shade at all is because it's usefull against pokemon with high sp defense; espically when Light Screen is in effect.

Most special walls, namely blissey/chancey, dont take any damage from ghost type moves, and Im fairly certain that the rest of the special walls in OU are hit by the shadow ball + Focus blast for neutral coverage (one of the best things to ever happen to any pokemon).

[philzone]

For the case of Blissey/Chansey:
Ring Target
Wonder Room and Focus Blast
Trick and Stick Barb/Toxic Orb
Toxic and Venoshock
Mean Look and Perish Song/Curse

Who gives a blissley a ring target? You would have to trick it first, then they could just switch out. Same with venoshock. Choice scarf is better for switching by trick, as then you can force a switch, as they can be locked into softboiled or wish. From what I see, skarmory and blissley/chansey are common, so wonder room might fail, if the foe switches to skarmory

[sbktdreed]

Most special walls, namely blissey/chancey, dont take any damage from ghost type moves, and Im fairly certain that the rest of the special walls in OU are hit by the shadow ball + Focus blast for neutral coverage (one of the best things to ever happen to any pokemon).

Who gives a blissley a ring target? You would have to trick it first, then they could just switch out. Same with venoshock. Choice scarf is better for switching by trick, as then you can force a switch, as they can be locked into softboiled or wish. From what I see, skarmory and blissley/chansey are common, so wonder room might fail, if the foe switches to skarmory

As I find it best to delete my previous message first, I would like to state that my previous message was stating what Gengar should do against Blissey and I was going to ruled out Venoshock. Ring Target is useful on doing damage regardless to type immunities. The pokemon who holds Sticky Barb loses 1/8 of HP each turn, as long as the opponent doesn't make direct contact; so it has some use for a Trick-using Specialist. As for the Wonder Room strategy, you can use Mean Look before using Wonder Room to prevent the switch against Blissey, unless it knows Healing Wish. As for Skarmory, Thunderbolt or Rain Dance & Thunder will do.

[Ilan]

Special
Item: Wise/ Choice Specs
Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 172 Speed, 86 HP
Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Focus Blast
Giga Drain/Thunderbolt

Partners
Earthquake/Bulldoze-users
Scrafty
Reflect-users

Countering
Gravity & Earthquake-users like Metagross
Fling + Iron Ball/Hard Stone
Light Screen-users
High Sp Defense and Attack users of Physical Psychic/Ghost/Dark-type moves like Trick Room & Zen Headbutt Bronzong, Payback Ferrothorn, Crunch Snorlax, Faint Attack Escavaleir, Girafarig, and Scrafty.

set: wise specs.. who uses that? life orb if anything giga drain and sludge wave are useless in the set.
partners: scarfty ok.. every thing with a fighting weakness pairs good with gengar as a lure..
EQ and bulldoze(?) the point it? steel types don't scare gengar too much really..
Reflect? gengar can't take a strong pursuit even with reflect.
counters:
metagross- gengar is behind a substitute (cause most gengars are when you switch) metagross used gravity gengar used shadow ball (50%` to metagross)
turn 2- gengar used shadow ball metagross fainted.
Fling iron ball/hard stone first thing who uses it? second sub..
light screen- espeon gets 0HKOed by shadow ball so is latios deoxys-D too and it is counter so they are mostly 2HKoed
Users of- disable says hi.
Trick room- well this kind of helps not a counter though you still need to tank 2 attacks from gengar to beat him.
High Sp. def- blissey and chansey? huh? they can't touch gengar.
zen headbutt bronzong again.. who uses it and it also get disabled.
all the ones you listed after that don't pass disable. Girafarig doesn't resist focus blast and again who the hell uses girafarig in OU?


Ok I used subdisable gengar for 2 days on my team and I must admit it is one of the most useful pokemons ever.. it can just screw Stall and choice users too it is very strong even with timid and leftovers and I can't count the times I managed to set a sub with it and keep it for a while.
I used it with zoroark they work really good they both learn focus miss.

Counters to gengar are actually very few you need to assume it will be behind a substitute to counter it.. taunt is a good way to stop subs but you are still dealing with a pokemon behind a sub. something like cincinno with skill link can counter gengar if you lure it into shadow ball but.. who uses him? nothing resists both fighting and ghost even hipotetical types..
jirachi is neutral to fighting and ghost and have some bulk so it can beat gengar if it have more than 1 attacking move. it is easier to beat gengar if it isn't behind a substitute every scarfer can do that (except scarf magikarp he can't check gengar ) priority scares gengar out scizor can beat gengar when not behind a sub..

To sum up, gengar is only really scary behind a substitute don't let him set up one.. just sacrifice something don't let him set a sub.. it is too damn dangerous.

Oh and gengar's biggest flaw is focus miss not his bad defenses those problems are minor.. focus miss.. if focus blast would be 100% accurate gengar would be THAT annoying it might be uber..

[sbktdreed]

set: wise specs.. who uses that? life orb if anything giga drain and sludge wave are useless in the set.
partners: scarfty ok.. every thing with a fighting weakness pairs good with gengar as a lure..
EQ and bulldoze(?) the point it? steel types don't scare gengar too much really..
Reflect? gengar can't take a strong pursuit even with reflect.
counters:
metagross- gengar is behind a substitute (cause most gengars are when you switch) metagross used gravity gengar used shadow ball (50%` to metagross)
turn 2- gengar used shadow ball metagross fainted.
Fling iron ball/hard stone first thing who uses it? second sub..
light screen- espeon gets 0HKOed by shadow ball so is latios deoxys-D too and it is counter so they are mostly 2HKoed
Users of- disable says hi.
Trick room- well this kind of helps not a counter though you still need to tank 2 attacks from gengar to beat him.
High Sp. def- blissey and chansey? huh? they can't touch gengar.
zen headbutt bronzong again.. who uses it and it also get disabled.
all the ones you listed after that don't pass disable. Girafarig doesn't resist focus blast and again who the hell uses girafarig in OU?


Ok I used subdisable gengar for 2 days on my team and I must admit it is one of the most useful pokemons ever.. it can just screw Stall and choice users too it is very strong even with timid and leftovers and I can't count the times I managed to set a sub with it and keep it for a while.
I used it with zoroark they work really good they both learn focus miss.

Counters to gengar are actually very few you need to assume it will be behind a substitute to counter it.. taunt is a good way to stop subs but you are still dealing with a pokemon behind a sub. something like cincinno with skill link can counter gengar if you lure it into shadow ball but.. who uses him? nothing resists both fighting and ghost even hipotetical types..
jirachi is neutral to fighting and ghost and have some bulk so it can beat gengar if it have more than 1 attacking move. it is easier to beat gengar if it isn't behind a substitute every scarfer can do that (except scarf magikarp he can't check gengar ) priority scares gengar out scizor can beat gengar when not behind a sub..

To sum up, gengar is only really scary behind a substitute don't let him set up one.. just sacrifice something don't let him set a sub.. it is too damn dangerous.

Oh and gengar's biggest flaw is focus miss not his bad defenses those problems are minor.. focus miss.. if focus blast would be 100% accurate gengar would be THAT annoying it might be uber..

I made a lot of changes to the message. Although Life Orb does three times more extra damage than Wise Glasses, Gengar loses 10% of its HP and Gengar's base HP is below average. Bulldoze may not be as strong as earthquake, but it can slow down the pokemon. I can see the Disable and Subistitute plans. The way I see it Gengar is a high-speed specialist.

[philzone]

I made a lot of changes to the message. Although Life Orb does three times more extra damage than Wise Glasses, Gengar loses 10% of its HP and Gengar's base HP is below average. Bulldoze may not be as strong as earthquake, but it can slow down the pokemon. I can see the Disable and Subistitute plans. The way I see it Gengar is a high-speed specialist.

Gengar is quite frail, with below average defences and HP, and dies pretty quickly, so the life orb's bad effect won't mess gengar up. It helps between a possible OHKO And a 2HKO,