Full Power! (My HO Team)

**Eaglehawk** · 27th October 2012, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by thedarklord2155

kings rock is too gimmicky to use effectively. focus sash is its best bet. also, not only electric or grass types carry those type moves. js.....

Dude.
When King's Rock is used with multi-hit moves, the flinch factor is accounted for all five hits. With Skill Link, Cloyster can have a potential 41% flinch rate when using Icicle Spear or Rock Blast, which is in fact not so gimmicky as you think, though I would preferably run that set with Paralysis support.

I'll do a full rate later

**JhenMohranMH3** · 27th October 2012, 11:39 PM

Heya!

ooooh HO ... great play style

anyway some stuff on stuff :

1/ SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENS
where are them screens .. i see none THEREFORE i conclude that this is not HO.

Been said that some one may need some magic bounce so the addition of the epic espeon would do nicely:

Espeon@Light Clay
Magic Bounce
Timid
252HP 252Spe 4Def
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Wish
-Psyshock

Here we have the espeon that would help the team hugely imo. Firstly magic bounce, in effect, nulifies the sr weakness as espeon can be swiched in whenever there would be a likely sr attack. Even though Taunt on Deoxys could do this job the point of MB is that ALL of these sort of attacks can be returned. I have used many a HO team and am fairly sure that Espeon does a great job of backing up those sweepers. Now the EV sweep is to provide bulk and speed so that screens can be set up quickly and efficeintly, wish is for things that might do well to have re-energised and then go back on the offensive.

This would be switched for either deoxys or gengar imo so that there isnt much type changeing around. The only problem is that there is now a massive dark and bug weakness to the team. though these are kinda covered from the rest of the team.

2/ Hp fire on deoxys AND gengar doesnt do it for me. a better spread would be to have ice on one and fire on the other.

3/ LO on starmie as i doubt that spinning is its main point .. even though that was why it was on the team in the first place

**That Crazy Russian™** · 27th October 2012, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Eaglehawk

Dude.
When King's Rock is used with multi-hit moves, the flinch factor is accounted for all five hits. With Skill Link, Cloyster can have a potential 41% flinch rate when using Icicle Spear or Rock Blast, which is in fact not so gimmicky as you think, though I would preferably run that set with Paralysis support.

I'll do a full rate later

its still too unreliable. those odds dont help me at all. i happen to think if its not half or above, its not safe to rely on it. i find that focus sash is best, as it almost guarantees a shell smash. i happen to not like gimmicks. and im entitled to my opinion. 41% is not good odds for me. now everyone stop jumping down my throat.

**Jazz Hands** · 28th October 2012, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by JhenMohranMH3

Heya!

ooooh HO ... great play style

anyway some stuff on stuff :

1/ SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENS
where are them screens .. i see none THEREFORE i conclude that this is not HO.

Been said that some one may need some magic bounce so the addition of the epic espeon would do nicely:

Espeon@Light Clay
Magic Bounce
Timid
252HP 252Spe 4Def
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Wish
-Psyshock

Here we have the espeon that would help the team hugely imo. Firstly magic bounce, in effect, nulifies the sr weakness as espeon can be swiched in whenever there would be a likely sr attack. Even though Taunt on Deoxys could do this job the point of MB is that ALL of these sort of attacks can be returned. I have used many a HO team and am fairly sure that Espeon does a great job of backing up those sweepers. Now the EV sweep is to provide bulk and speed so that screens can be set up quickly and efficeintly, wish is for things that might do well to have re-energised and then go back on the offensive.

This would be switched for either deoxys or gengar imo so that there isnt much type changeing around. The only problem is that there is now a massive dark and bug weakness to the team. though these are kinda covered from the rest of the team.

2/ Hp fire on deoxys AND gengar doesnt do it for me. a better spread would be to have ice on one and fire on the other.

3/ LO on starmie as i doubt that spinning is its main point .. even though that was why it was on the team in the first place

Thanks!
I think I'll replace Deoxys with Espeon and put LO on Starmie.

**SneaselFTW** · 28th October 2012, 9:28 AM

Maybe try Jolly on Cloyster? And Leftovers on Starmie would help. (no 10% damage very time you spin)

Pretty good team anyway, testing it right now.

**Jazz Hands** · 28th October 2012, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by legolover8

Maybe try Jolly on Cloyster? And Leftovers on Starmie would help. (no 10% damage very time you spin)

Pretty good team anyway, testing it right now.

Good Idea about the Jolly, but i think that LO on Starmie works just fine.

**Barbeller** · 28th October 2012, 11:29 AM

Oh wow, this is a pretty good team.

I was just wondering, do you actually find Protect useful on Gengar? I can really see it being amazing, especially considering how frail Genger is anyway, if it takes a hit it pretty much dies, the Black Sludge recovery wont do that much.

The only other thing that I think is maybe getting rid of Focus Sash on Cloyster for White Herb. If there are hazards up, then it's pretty much useless. You do have Starmie, but you don't really want to waste 3 turns for switching it in, spinning, and then switching it out, especially because it will take damage from the hazards and LO. This would also waste your screens, if they were up. Cloyster also has a huge defence, so it's only useful against Special attackers, and most teams have priority as well (which is predominantly physical, so keeping your defence would be useful against them). On the other hand, if Espeon keeps the hazards away (if you're good at predicting, you'll probably be better off not changing to White Herb), and Cloyster is up against a special attacker, then Focus Sash could be very useful. It's just something that I would consider.

But overall, I think this is a very well built team, and I congratulate you.

**Jazz Hands** · 25th November 2012, 8:06 AM

Originally Posted by Barbeller

Oh wow, this is a pretty good team.

I was just wondering, do you actually find Protect useful on Gengar? I can really see it being amazing, especially considering how frail Genger is anyway, if it takes a hit it pretty much dies, the Black Sludge recovery wont do that much.

The only other thing that I think is maybe getting rid of Focus Sash on Cloyster for White Herb. If there are hazards up, then it's pretty much useless. You do have Starmie, but you don't really want to waste 3 turns for switching it in, spinning, and then switching it out, especially because it will take damage from the hazards and LO. This would also waste your screens, if they were up. Cloyster also has a huge defence, so it's only useful against Special attackers, and most teams have priority as well (which is predominantly physical, so keeping your defence would be useful against them). On the other hand, if Espeon keeps the hazards away (if you're good at predicting, you'll probably be better off not changing to White Herb), and Cloyster is up against a special attacker, then Focus Sash could be very useful. It's just something that I would consider.

But overall, I think this is a very well built team, and I congratulate you.

Thanks!
I think Sub on Gengar might work better, but i think Sash on Cloyster works very well
Bump
More rates please!

**Jazz Hands** · 24th December 2012, 8:14 AM

Bumping again, really want some more rates!

**Ninja Dewott** · 24th December 2012, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jazz Hands

This is my first HO team, that I've used for a while. It's got to 1447 on Showdown, and counting. Please rate!

If you want to go high on the ladder, don't count at the same time. Quit that, and concentrate on the battles. Tut, tut.

As for my proper rate, I'd say you should replace Starmie. In my experience of HO, you shouldn't really need a Spinner, especially with Espeon on your team, as you should either be setting up on Hazard Layers, or switching in to Espeon. I'd replace Starmie with Tyranitar. Ok, sounds weird, and it is, but hear me out. Firstly, the one thing that really messes up HO is stuff that's faster than you. TTar prevents any Chlorophyll users from doing just this. TTar can also trap common threats to your team like Scarf Latios. He can also lay down SR, a more reliable way of doing so than bouncing them off Espeon. Finally, he can sponge a lot of attacks which could be harmful with his rather impressive bulk. You don't need to worry about Cloyster's Sash, since you can set that up beforehand if you have the chance.

Finally, the team overall is fairly weak to LO Mamo. It OHKOs Breloom and Mence with Ice Shard, even after they've set up to their heart's content. It also does a hefty chunk to Gengar as well, and can probably do a fair bit to Cloyster, especially after a Shell Smash. Therefore, I'd consider replacing one of your sweepers with a DD Gyarados.

**SkyDriver** · 24th December 2012, 9:27 PM

team looks good, but electric attacks may be bothering, since only Breloom resists them...
Many frail pokes, so you need to predict very carefully, but that shouldnt be a problem :3
Also, Cloyster IMO does best naive with Surf/Hydro Pump, for physically defensive steels, like Skarmory, which is OHKO'ed by surf after SR and one SS. will do full rate later

**Ragnarok** · 25th December 2012, 3:55 AM

*sigh*

Sorry, but in other words, no.

For one, you removed the single thing that helped keep the pressure on your opponent, Deoxys-D. Having a reliable, consistent way of setting up hazards is a must for most HO teams out there, and I am trying to figure why you thought Espeon of all things was a better choice to Deoxys-D. Espeon is not a reliable way of setting up hazards.

But let's forget about hazards for a moment and focus on the main core of this team. An effective way of playing with HO is using Pokemon which all share similar counters, with the intention of overwhelming said counters with powerful sweepers. Once these counters or checks are out of the way, the rest of your pokemon should be able to sweep your opponent with relative ease. Maintaining momentum during the game is also essential as with offence, cause once you lose momentum, it is hard to regain it.

Running Terrakion, alongside Breloom will benefit this team more than the likes of Cloyster. You already run a strong fighting type Pokemon, so running a secondary overpowered fighting type like Terrakion will allow you to keep the pressure going with his strong close combats and stone edges. Eventually, their counters will fold to the overwhelming STAB moves, and a sweep will further be in your grasp.

Next is the issue with spinners. Starmie will almost, certainly kill any momentum you gain in the match. You have no time to be spinning hazards away when you should be keeping the pressure going on your opponent. You never needed Starmie on this team, and Scizor was a better addition. The removal of Scizor pretty much meant that Gengar can have his way with your team, and it was a bad decision to remove him.

So now that we have established the weak links:

Espeon
Starmie
Cloyster

Let's fix this team. With your lead you have two options, Taunt Deoxys or Terrakion. Deo-D is pretty self explanatory. You are guaranteed some form of hazard for your high powered sweepers to abuse. You are not relying on luck (that's basically what it is) to get hazards on your opponent. Taunt is a must for Deoxys-D as you don't want dumb things like Dragonite coming in and doing as they please by dancing around like a tard.

Deoxys (Deoxys-D) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock / Recover
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave / Night Shade
- Taunt

Or you can go down the route of using Sash Terrakion. Right off the bat you have a way of taking out his counters as Focus Sash prevents them from outright taking him out. Scizor tries to Bullet Punch you? Eat my Close Combat. Keldeo comes in with Scarf and tries to revenge with Hydro Pump, go back to pony land where you belong. Of course you would want Stealth Rock on here, as guaranteed hazards is still a nice thing to have on a HO team. Believe it or not you don't need screens or spikes to run a successful HO team, all you really need is rocks and a good core which maintains offensive pressure on your opponent, thus forcing them to react to you, not the other way round.

Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance / Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Terrakion @ Rock Gem
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Substitute

Now to Starmie. Please put Scizor back in. Scizor helps you deal with Gengar, which takes your team to places it'd rather not be at. A Swords Dance set will fit nicely with the direction you want to go with. Come in, set up, deal with the likes of Terrakion and Breloom (though if Terrak has Sash, then its gonna get a bit peak for you if you don't have hazards). Scizor acts as a good pivot you see, and he can deal with the above mentioned threats. Of course you'd want a bulky spread, as you do not want Gengar having an easy time during the battle. You want to be able to atleast survive a hit from Gengar and take him out. Latios, believe it or not, is also a tough nut to crack for the team as it is right now.

Scizor (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Atk / 124 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Or

Scizor (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- U-Turn

Now, say you go down the route of Terrak as a lead, you have a bit of a problem. Only 5 members. Now, you can do what you want following what I've said (also cause idek what to fill that spot with) on the last spot. Maybe Keldeo?

PS - for fun. mess with this set for a bit, idc what you do with loom though.

Can be made faster or bulkier depending on preference. If you want more bulk, take out of Attack and put into HP in defence.

Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Seed Bomb
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Spore

Also, maybe Pain Split or Disable over HP Fire? Idk.

Credits to GameFreak for helping me build the sets.

**SkyDriver** · 29th December 2012, 8:40 PM

The team as is now doesn't pack a Ghost resist, while 3 are weak to it. Adding the aforementioned Scizor > Starmie should fix that, if it has Pursuit, it can also kill them for the rest of the match.
Most have their weakness covered by only 1 teammate. If this is problematic let me know, I'll try to help with that then.

**Jazz Hands** · 15th February 2013, 4:09 PM