Community POTW #96

[Miror]

Throh is honestly just part of Gamefreak's plan to copy every pokemon from the previous generation. It's a Hariyama. That's it.
And keeping with Gamefreak's trend, like all other pokemon that were remakes of some other (Galvantula to Ariados, Ursuring to Beartic... I could go on), Throh's stats are completely inferior to Hariyama's. So anything Throh can do, Hariyama can do better.
I guess he does have pretty nice stats on paper, but his movepool is basically just a big gimmick. He has Dragon Tail and Frost Breath, but as Fighting type moves. Circle Throw he could pull of, but having an attack that only does Crits is kinda dumb; there are lots of pokemon that have abilities that deny crits or increases their Attack when there is a crit.
Besides that, he really is just another Fighting type. He has the punches and Edgequake, and a bunch of Fighting type moves and Bulk Up. So does Conkledurr. But Throh has to use Superpower in his sets, making him stronger! Almost every other Fighting type has Superpower or Close Combat (which is better) and superior stats.
Honestly, Throh doesn't have anything that really makes him stand out. There are so many other Fighting types (and pokemon in general) that do his job better. He's even outclassed in NU.
Point is, Throh is amazing for in-game, but competitively, he's a no-go.

The main problem with this argument is the fact that by most tiering systems, Hariyama is the equivalent of RU while Throh is NU, and thus are hard to compare/contrast because they don't have to worry about the same metagame. Throh is actually a really good Pokemon in NU, its only downfall really is its speed and lack of reliable recovery other than Rest. As mentioned earlier, Throh has the advantage of having Circle Throw and incredible bulk (which sets him apart from other Fighting types), Circle Throw allowing Throh to phaze out either Pokemon setting up with Throh (as Throh generally runs a Bulk Up set), or adds team support to a team with hazards. Also, you got Circle Throw mixed up with Storm Throw (CT phazes, ST crits), so despite it being outclassed by other Fightings, most if not all of those Fightings are in a different tier. The only Fightings that may be outclassing Throh in other regards are Emboar, who gets powerful Fire STAB and good coverage, or Sawk who is used as either a wall breaker or revenge killer. Throh can also be used to take annoying statuses as Guts then boosts his Attack and makes Circle Throw even more abusable.

Essentially (this is for the tl;dr people), Throh has it's own niche in NU, and is likely the best phazer in the tier, making it useful to teams that have trouble with set up Pokemon (as Throh has enough bulk to withstand a +1 hit from quite a few pokemon and subsequently phaze them out), or make quick hash of an opponent's team when you have hazards set up.

[TimmahX]

Just throwing this out there... Cradily in no way shape or form counters Throh. Cradily is weak to fighting and even if it can't be Circle Throwed away it still takes a ton of damage from it. What will Cradily do back? Throh resists Rock and takes little from any of Cradily's Grass moves.

It was an oversight, but it's not totally wrong. Cradily can break even with Sandstorm up or if it runs its "Smogon Standard" set (Toxic, SR, Recover, Attack with 252 HP and Def).

Throh, 0 Atk EVs Circle Throw v Cradily, 252 Def/HP Evs = 25% ~ 30% without Guts. With Guts its more, but still just a 3HKO and Cradily runs Recover + Leftovers.

It's not like a perfect counter, but it SHOULD do the trick in a good number of cases. If Throh has like a Bulk Up or two out when Cradily hits the board though, it'll probably lose. I'm fine with not calling it a hard counter, but its at least a check in favorable winds.

[Ilan]

It was an oversight, but it's not totally wrong. Cradily can break even with Sandstorm up or if it runs its "Smogon Standard" set (Toxic, SR, Recover, Attack with 252 HP and Def).

Throh, 0 Atk EVs Circle Throw v Cradily, 252 Def/HP Evs = 25% ~ 30% without Guts. With Guts its more, but still just a 3HKO and Cradily runs Recover + Leftovers.

It's not like a perfect counter, but it SHOULD do the trick in a good number of cases. If Throh has like a Bulk Up or two out when Cradily hits the board though, it'll probably lose. I'm fine with not calling it a hard counter, but its at least a check in favorable winds.

If throh have 0 atk EVs it will have rest and bulk up- not a counter.

[philzone]

Throh
Item:Leftovers
Abillity:Guts
Nature:Adamant
EVs: I don't know, probably something like the set above.
-Circle Throw/ Storm Throw
-Bulk Up
-Superpower/ storm throw
-Pain Split

This set seems to be walled by all ghost types. Suggest adding payback in the 3rd slot

[OceanicLanturn]

Stop Throh-ling

Throh @ Leftover
Ability: Guts
Nature: Impish (+Def -SpA)
EV: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Atk
- Circle Throw
- Substitute
- Revenge/Payback
- Bulk Up

The troll set... to most physical attackers. Circle Throw prevents stuff from setting up and is an instant annoyance, in the presence of Stealth Rock and Spikes. Substitute is useful in trying to setup with Bulk Up. Revenge is an attacking option with a higher power if the other side goes first, but Payback is better because it hits Ghost Type.

Partners:
Has anyone ever tried a Parasect with Spore + Throh set? It's an instant troll. You never wake up, SR is on your side, he spams Circle Throw that does horrendously huge damage to you, while you have no chance to break his sub with you sleeping. Annoying, you might as well just forfeit. Of course, Stealth Rock or Spikes are almost required to make full use of Throh.

Counters:
Regenerator Tangela is a huge stop to Throh. It has such physical bulk, Sleep Powder and Regenerator that Throh just can't beat through. It takes minimum damage from Payback and Revenge too, and benefits from Circle Throw. And to top it off: Eviolite, that will certainly stop Throh dead in the track. Tangrowth also does the job well, in RU.

[your boss]

You all got the sets down I believe so I will discuss his abilities, Throlololololo!!!

Inner Focus: how cute, protects you from flinching, don't use it!

Guts: U Mad Throh? Well I see no since you get your buff on attack to hit some NU mons harder, use this!

Mold Breaker: meh guess you could hit Haunter and friends with Earthquake but there is Payback!!!

[Chess Zoroark]

This set seems to be walled by all ghost types. Suggest adding payback in the 3rd slot

Yeah that probably is right, Thanks for the tip .

[philzone]

Yeah that probably is right, Thanks for the tip .

No problem.

Here is an idea for a double battle support set support

Item: leftovers
Careful
Evs 252 hp,252 spdef, 4def
-Wide guard
-Helping hand
-Circle throw/storm throw
-Protect
Ability: Guts

Useful in the VGC metagame. with the bulk, he is useful. Wide guard lets you protect yourself and team from multi hitting moves. Helping hand is useful to use on Ally's, so then they can score a OHKO. Protect is key here, as it is staple in the VGC metagame. Circle throw phazes the opponent while storm throw attacks strong.

An other option move could be Facade on flame orb sets, so then you get a pretty strong hit.

[Blue Harvest]

It was an oversight, but it's not totally wrong. Cradily can break even with Sandstorm up or if it runs its "Smogon Standard" set (Toxic, SR, Recover, Attack with 252 HP and Def).

Throh, 0 Atk EVs Circle Throw v Cradily, 252 Def/HP Evs = 25% ~ 30% without Guts. With Guts its more, but still just a 3HKO and Cradily runs Recover + Leftovers.

It's not like a perfect counter, but it SHOULD do the trick in a good number of cases. If Throh has like a Bulk Up or two out when Cradily hits the board though, it'll probably lose. I'm fine with not calling it a hard counter, but its at least a check in favorable winds.

Cradily is 3HKOed by +1 Circle Throw.
Cradily does 15% MAX with Energy Ball.
If Cradily uses Toxic Guts activates, and Throh just devastates you.
Throh has Chesto Rest. It sets up several Bulk Ups on Cradily, heals, then kills it.


Not only is Cradily not a counter, it is setup bait.

[philzone]

Counters for throh.
How to counter something so powerful and bulky. Very slow psychic types spring to mind. Musharna out slows throh, so takes a lot of sting out of payback, and can hit back with psychic. Reuniclus is in the same boat as musharna. Cresselia is good at countering, due to bulk, but payback hurts more. Confragrigus is good, as it can take a payback, and any guts-flame orb users will be downed, as they lose the boost, and their att stat is halved

[adu98]

Ahh Throh, the partner of Generation V's Sawk. Unlike it's brother, it has extraordinary bulk, the largest bulk of all Fighting types for that matter(barring Arceus Fighting of course). 125/85/85 defenses are scary, and an attack stat at 100 is not exactly low either. So why doesn't everyone use this Fighting Type Tank? Lack of recovery mainly, having to rely on the shady Rest. It's also slow, with a miniscule base 45 speed. But, with a fantastic phazing move in Circle Throw AND great bulk, Throh is a top threat in the Underused tier, and is even usable in Standard play!

Abilities
Inner Focus- Pretty useless since Throh won't take very much damage from most flinching moves AND the fact that Throh doesn't take down opponents at a very fast rate.
Guts- This on the other hand CAN be extremely useful, especially in Trick Room. With an Adamant nature, after a Guts boost, in Trick Room, nothing is faster than it, few can OHKO it AND it has a huge 494 attack WITHOUT set up!
Mold Breaker- Despite how highly I speak of Guts, Mold Breaker is more useful. Hitting threats like Bronzong and Gengar is more important when using Rest, which you will be.

No thanks Grandma, if i have another berry, I might THROH up!

-Circle Throw
-Rest
-Payback/Earthquake/Bide/Toxic
-Bulk Up
Items- Chesto Berry
Ability- Guts/Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP/252 Defense/6 Attack
Impish (+Defense, -Special Attack) or Careful (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)

So this is the set that relies on Throh's ONLY healing move, Rest. Combined with a Chesto Berry, and you get ChestoRest, although this name was more fun to make. Rest is there... obviously. Earthquake... only use it if using Mold Breaker. If you're using Throh in UU, it's useless, but hits Gengar and Bronzong in OU! Payback is the preferred option for hitting Psychic types, like Alakazam and the extremely dangerous in UU, Musharna! Toxic wears down Chansey if you want to cripple it before you die, but Toxic Spikes support is better. Bide MAY seem gimmicky... it actually is. Use it against Noobs if you seem them a lot. Circle Throw phazes potential sweeps, in UU, it's mainly threats like Venemoth or Mew, but in OU, it's the Dancing Dragon Trio (Salamence, Dragonite and Haxorus), who could easily destroy your whole team! Cloyster is there as well, and the good thing is, after a Shell Smash, Cloyster will take an absurdly massive amount of damage from the Phazing move, making it useless for the rest of the match! Bulk Up is there to boost Defense, more importantly than attack, making you immovable to physical moves!

Would you like some butter on your Throast?

-Bulk Up
-Payback/Poison Jab
-Storm Throw/Circle Throw
-Taunt/Rest/Stone Edge/Bulldoze
Ability- Guts/Mold Breaker
Item- Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/200 S.Defense/56 Defense
Nature: Careful (+S.Defense -S.Attack) or Impish (+Defense -S.Attack)

This is a Bulky Sweeper set, REAAALLLY Bulky to be frank. After one or two bulk ups, no unboosted physical move can hurt you. Bulk Up is your boosting move, simply because Throh has no other viable ones. Payback hits Psychic types nicely, but if you want, go with Poison Jab to hit Grass types hard. The problem with Jab is that most Grass types are neutral to it or immune to it, Roserade, Venasaur and Ferrothorn for example. The next move is really and truly preference. Storm Throw is always a critical hit, and thus is extremely powerful. There are problems with it though. Number one is that it prevents phazing, which is a real niche of Throh. The second is that if for some reason it doesn't kill Anger Point Primeape or Krookodile, you've lost the game, but Anger Point is REAAAALLLLY rare, so dont worry. Circle Throw phazes... but it's weak, and weakness is annoying in a Bulky Sweeper. The last move is preference purely. Taunt prevents Whimsy, Ferro and Forry from setting hazards and Leech Seed. It can be really useful, but if you're using Circle Throw, its a little useless. If you've bulked up a good amount, Rest is for healing yourself, but the problem is that you'll probably make up for the health gain the turns your asleep. Bulldoze makes you faster than a lot of foes, and can ruin pokemon who cant switch out, like a Dragon Danced Haxorus. It goes really well with Mold Breaker as well. Finally, you can use Stone Edge, which is powerful with a high critical hit ratio. It destroys Thundurus-T and Volcarona, you'd have nothing else to hit them with!

[philzone]

Would you like some butter on your Throast?

-Bulk Up
-Payback/Poison Jab
-Storm Throw/Circle Throw
-Taunt/Rest/Stone Edge/Bulldoze
Ability- Guts/Mold Breaker
Item- Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/200 S.Defense/56 Defense
Nature: Careful (+S.Defense -S.Attack) or Impish (+Defense -S.Attack)

This is a Bulky Sweeper set, REAAALLLY Bulky to be frank. After one or two bulk ups, no unboosted physical move can hurt you. Bulk Up is your boosting move, simply because Throh has no other viable ones. Payback hits Psychic types nicely, but if you want, go with Poison Jab to hit Grass types hard. The problem with Jab is that most Grass types are neutral to it or immune to it, Roserade, Venasaur and Ferrothorn for example. The next move is really and truly preference. Storm Throw is always a critical hit, and thus is extremely powerful. There are problems with it though. Number one is that it prevents phazing, which is a real niche of Throh. The second is that if for some reason it doesn't kill Anger Point Primeape or Krookodile, you've lost the game, but Anger Point is REAAAALLLLY rare, so dont worry. Circle Throw phazes... but it's weak, and weakness is annoying in a Bulky Sweeper. The last move is preference purely. Taunt prevents Whimsy, Ferro and Forry from setting hazards and Leech Seed. It can be really useful, but if you're using Circle Throw, its a little useless. If you've bulked up a good amount, Rest is for healing yourself, but the problem is that you'll probably make up for the health gain the turns your asleep. Bulldoze makes you faster than a lot of foes, and can ruin pokemon who cant switch out, like a Dragon Danced Haxorus. It goes really well with Mold Breaker as well. Finally, you can use Stone Edge, which is powerful with a high critical hit ratio. It destroys Thundurus-T and Volcarona, you'd have nothing else to hit them with!

Coverage with poison jab is minimal. Only grass types are really hit, so you could do better with ice punch. hits grass, flying, ground and dragon hard. better than poison jab, as it has more coverage. so: ice punch>poison jab. fire punch could be used, but there is hardly anything else left to counter, after steel and ice are dealt with STAB fighting

[adu98]

Coverage with poison jab is minimal. Only grass types are really hit, so you could do better with ice punch. hits grass, flying, ground and dragon hard. better than poison jab on many levels. so: ice punch>poison jab. fire punch could be used, but there is hardly anything else left to counter, after steel and ice are dealt with STAB fighting

It can use the punches? Phew, that changes everything!

[philzone]

It can use the punches? Phew, that changes everything!

BW2 Move tutors. . It also learns pain split, but that should only be used for health regain when low on health

[Ryan7437]

Why not Troh-berg?

Throh @ Expert Belt
252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Special Defense
Guts
~ Superpower
~ Ice Punch
~ Payback
~ Bulk Up

The name is a pun on the popular meme: " Why not Zoidberg? "

[SwiftGrovyle]

Hey guys, I'm back! So, Throh huh?

Other options
Body slam is a given. Every single time.
Pain split wasn't really mentioned that often, and with a high hp, a little difficult to control.
Reversal is an option, but with weather flying and statuses dropping left and right, not really useful. You could combine it with-
Substitute, allows you to be free of status that you don't want, and a free turn to set up. Do it against the right poke, and you'd really toss them aside like a bad ex-boy/girlfriend. (pun intended)
Knock off is helpful. Throw away key essential items, and then it's time to make something fly. (puns also intended)

Doubles
Is this guy good? Signature move that causes switches, helping hand on the side, wide guard, earthquake and bulldoze (which I mention the bulldoze-contrary combo on the Quashquire potw.) Inner focus... Yeah, well, you don't see much of fake out in the doubles as you used to. I guess for precaution, even though you could pick the other poke seeing as its a Double battle.