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Thread: Original regions

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    Default Original regions

    What's the thing with original regions??

    There are tons of brilliant original (read: fake) regions up on the sprites section, so why not in the fanfiction section too? Why don't people write stories set in their own regions, with their own Pokemon? It would be fantastic to read and I for one enjoy reading original region fics.

    The main point behind this question is that I've got a pretty good outline for an original-region fic myself and I'd love to put it up, except I'm not quite sure about some problems that might be faced while writing it. Currently, I suspect the problem is with description, and that's one of my weak points.
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    I'm all about original regions. There's a lot you can do with it because then you can introduce everything yourself. It is a lot harder to write, though, because you can't rely on your readers having pre-conceived ideas of where things are and what characters look like. So since you admit that description is your weak point, doing an original region would be an EXCELLENT exercise/challenge for you. It would really force you to bring the new world to life. Just don't look at it as "I stink at description so I won't be good at this", look at it as "This will be a project to really push me!"

    You could say the same thing about original pokemon, too, but...eh. I'm not a big fan of those. Creating regions and gym leaders and cities and cultures is a lot of fun to read, but creating pokemon is the line for me. Not that I think it's unacceptable by any means, it just doesn't personally interest me.


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    I'm all up for original reasons - I'm not a fan of Fakemon as it gets hard to keep up with, and you don't know whats going on. I do, however, love the thrill of learning about an original region, and the gym Leaders there - I myself am making an original region

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyBraviary∞ View Post
    Why don't people write stories set in their own regions, with their own Pokemon?
    Same reason why you'll be hard-pressed to find fanfic of the canon characters: because people just don't feel like writing them. *shrug* There's really nothing that keeps them from doing so, and there's really no stigma about fan-created regions (although there is about fan-created Pokémon for one reason or another). It's just that a lot of us haven't been inspired to write a fic set in a fan-created region, so we don't.

    It's not like it hasn't been done, though. There's a number of fics in this section that are set in fan-created regions and pull it off pretty well. The Corei Quest, for example, if you're willing to abuse the search bar for a moment. And probably others that lasted for a chapter or so (as trainer fics are wont to do sometimes), but unfortunately, I don't quite have the time to go searching for them.

    I do have to say, though, that it's a lot harder to create an entire story based on a fan-created region than it is to draw a map and put together some sprites. Granted, I'm not saying it's easy to do that too, but you've got a lot more on your shoulders when you go into writing a fan-created region. You have to know every last detail about your region: its culture, its history, the tiniest details of its geography, its most important residents and their backstories/personalities, and of course the flora and fauna. And on top of that, you have to know how to bring all of those details out into words because you can't rely on pictures to convey your ideas or assume that your readers will have a decent mental image of your fan-created Pokémon, locations, and so forth. So that may be part of it as well: you just have to be obsessive and creative in order to pull off a fan-created region within a story that isn't just a trite new trainer fic.

    But primarily, yeah, it's just that a lot of us just don't feel like writing a fan-created region because we keep coming up with stories that fit the canon ones.

    As for your issue with description, might I recommend getting yourself a beta reader? Betas should be able to spot things like that and work with you before you post in order to iron out those details (no pun intended).

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    Description is a key point when it comes to creating a new region. In fact, I'd say that it's easily the most important point. Creating a whole new region isn't as simple as putting Pokemon in certain environments. You have to explain why your region has the Pokemon it does, how they got there, how they survive and thrive, etc., even if it's in little tidbits. If there are Fakemon in your story (which I'd be perfectly fine with, if they're well done), you have to describe exactly what they look like. Otherwise, you're going to have a lot of confused readers.

    The environments themselves are also important. If we don't know what makes them unique from other regions, how can we connect to the region itself? Describe the landscape, the type of trees, if there are any trees, what kind of water there is, the temperature, if there's humidity or not, etc. Again, write as if the readers are complete newcomers to the Pokemon world, especially this region.

    And even after the environments and Pokemon are complete, you still have to think of other things: the towns, the people, the specific cultures they have, and the specific league rules, if there are any. How have the towns adapted to the region? Are they mostly rural? How much urbanization has occured? How have the people adapted? What are their beliefs? What kind of jobs are out there aside from training? How have they used their Pokemon to help them out? What does the league allow and not allow? Do they enforce their rules and regulations? If so, how strictly? ...Or do the people not use Pokemon? Do they fear them? Do they hate Pokemon and have prejudiced thoughts when it comes to trainers? If so, why? Is there even a league?

    Thoughts like that have to come up when you're writing down an original region. You are basically creating an entirely new world and dropping readers right in the middle of it. We don't know anything about this region, so you have to describe it for us.

    If you can do that, this story will be very successful. I hope my advice has helped.

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    I use original regions myself, occasionally. I had a region called Clovoh for my Gijinka fics, and the unnamed 'the land on the southern horizon' in my PMD fanfic Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Investigators of Hearts and Aura, both of which I never finished.
    So, I'm all for original regions. Fakémon don't interest me, personally, but reading about new lands do.
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    Original regions are fine for me, but unfortunately not Fakemon for me neither.

    Creating an original region is already a great project, and on top of that you create your own fakemon for your own region as well. I don't mean to be discouraging, but Game Freak requires a whole team of several tens or hundreds of designers to create one generation of Pokemon, and still it takes them a year or so to publish the first Pokemon of that new generation. So if you are going to use only fakemons in your original region in the fanfic, it will be just like how Game Freak creates a new Pokemon game, with a new generation of Pokemon, a new story set in a new region. And not to mentioned that even I exclude game system engineers, programmers, music editor, etc, which has nothing to do with the story plot and background settings, Game Freak still requires hundreds of personnels to create it.

    Though I don't really interested in fanfic of Fakemons, original regions are fine. My current fic is also set in an original region (Well, only half is original to the more correct sense) created by my own. Geography, cultures, location of towns and cities, significant spots and places are all considered. Sometimes I'll change or add or fill in the gaps in the world design as I continue writing the fic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    Creating an original region is already a great project, and on top of that you create your own fakemon for your own region as well. I don't mean to be discouraging, but Game Freak requires a whole team of several tens or hundreds of designers to create one generation of Pokemon, and still it takes them a year or so to publish the first Pokemon of that new generation. So if you are going to use only fakemons in your original region in the fanfic, it will be just like how Game Freak creates a new Pokemon game, with a new generation of Pokemon, a new story set in a new region. And not to mentioned that even I exclude game system engineers, programmers, music editor, etc, which has nothing to do with the story plot and background settings, Game Freak still requires hundreds of personnels to create it.
    Not to be argumentative. Just genuinely curious. What exactly does the speed at which the game team produce Pokémon have to do with the creative forces generating material for a fanfic? Okay, that sounded really pretentious of me, but what I'm trying to say is game design =/= writing a fanfic. If you're creative enough, you can come up with plenty of new designs and qualities for tons upon tons of new species. All you need when you write a fanfic is an idea of what the Pokémon looks like, a rough idea of what the general species' habits are, and a loose idea of its stats and abilities. You don't need to know how it would function in terms of game programming. You could do that if you're hardcore, but it's certainly not necessary to create a solid fan-species.

    In fact, a lot of fics have actually pulled it off well, and now that I'm actually not rushing, I can at least name a few. Dragonfree's work (Quest for the Legends, specifically) focuses both on a fan-created region and fan-created Pokémon. She put a lot of thought and effort into detailing her species, and when you read her chapters, you can picture each one fairly clearly. You can also tell she spent a lot of time detailing species like the Leta line and her three elemental dragons, just by how vivid her description is, how carefully she constructed their social order (namely thinking of Leta's background here), how well-written her legends are, and so forth. Hell, even Moltzapart and Raintecune, as hilarious as their creative origins are, are actually pretty well-written legendaries. ...Although that may be because I will never not be amused by how they were formed.

    Then you have things like the universe of Pokémon Rebirth, which comes complete with a fan-created region so detailed that it has its own massive Pokédex. And a lot of thought went into each fakemon too. Readers have access to everything about their movesets, power, and so forth. Within the fic (I'm thinking of Ultimatum in particular here), descriptions are vivid enough to allow us to walk away with mental images of these Pokémon, and more than that, every fakemon introduced is fantastically brought to life as their own characters. So not only can we get to know them as Pokémon (and understand their species as well), but we also get to know them as characters, vital members of the cast with their own personalities. The downside is that Ultimatum, the story that has a large chunk of the fan-created region, is currently down for revision, but yeah, when it goes back up, definitely a rec.

    The point is that fakemon require the same kinds of things from a writer as an original region or even an original character: copious amounts of creativity and writing skill. There's really nothing wrong with fakemon as a concept otherwise. If it's not your cuppa, okay, I understand that, but it's unfair to say that it's harder to pull off fakemon than it is anything else. When you break it down, all that goes into creating a fakemon, a fan region, and an original character are three things: background details (that includes culture, geography, and so forth for fan-created regions), physical details, and innate (personality, abilities) details. These are fundamentally the same concepts, only with different applications. Describing the behavior of an inhuman character, for example, is basically a lot like describing the behavior of a human character. You're still phrasing things in terms of adjectives and verbs -- illustrating what those characters do, how they react to the world around them, and how the world reacts right back at them. The only difference is basically what you say about them.

    That being said, the main reason why fakemon are withheld until a year before the game's release is simple: to hype the mess out of the new games. But while, yes, Game Freak employs a lot of people, what it takes to create a character isn't anything special or unique to them, and the fact that new Pokémon are released so late doesn't have anything to do with the effort it takes to create them. In fact, what goes into creating those new characters is really a basic skill that every writer should possess anyway.

    Tl;dr, it's okay if you don't like fakemon, but fakemon are basically like original characters. Just because they're not canon doesn't mean they're automatically bad or hard to pull off.

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    I can name two that I've read just off the top of my head, there's Pokémon Revolution: Maverick Heart, which is still being written (but there are loads of chapters and the author has shown in the past that he's more than capable of finishing fics this long). There's also Lurking in the Shadows: Lisa's Ultimate Challenge, which got completed ages ago, but is still one of my favourite fics ever, purely because of how original it all is. It's definitely a quirky fic, but it's worth the read.

    As for the rationale behind fan created regions, why/how they're written etc. that's all explained above me, I just wanted to recommend some good fics.
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    @ JX Valentine:

    I'm not that interested in Fakemons, but I never say I don't like it, reject it or hate it. Also I never said for once that writing such fic will be bad.

    I just wanted to point out the fact that the level of difficulty of writing such fic that everything is original is much more higher. Because there are no pre-existing reference work, you need to make yourself all the details and references if you need to think and refer back. So you don't just write merely the fanfic itself, but you are also creating a new world on its own. So that just simply means, the work load of writing original regions with original Fakemons is much more higher.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    I just wanted to point out the fact that the level of difficulty of writing such fic that everything is original is much more higher. Because there are no pre-existing reference work, you need to make yourself all the details and references if you need to think and refer back. So you don't just write merely the fanfic itself, but you are also creating a new world on its own. So that just simply means, the work load of writing original regions with original Fakemons is much more higher.
    Well, yes, but what I don't understand is this:

    Original regions are fine for me, but unfortunately not Fakemon for me neither.
    My confusion is compounded by the fact that you brought Game Freak into it, as if to say you can't come up with both a fan-created region and fakemon to populate it unless you have a creativity team behind you. If you just don't care for fakemon, that's one thing, but you sort of implied by bringing in Game Freak that creating fakemon is much harder than creating an original region when in actuality, it really isn't. Or to be fairer, what you actually said was that it's much harder to create both of them at the same time, when it also isn't when you're already doing something similar by creating a fan-created region populated with original characters and canon Pokémon. Think about it. Your original characters (which should be in your fan-created region because why would canon characters be there?) need to be well-developed -- or at least the main cast has to be -- to reflect the culture of the region. And then you have to figure out which canon Pokémon go into that fan-created region as well as a decent explanation for why there's no fakemon when pretty much every region except those of the side games have an entirely new set of flora and fauna. Then you have to go the extra mile to explain why the regional professor is giving out different regions' starters if you're writing a new trainer story. It's actually probably just as complicated to have a fan-created region populated with canon Pokémon as it is to have a fan-created region populated with fakemon because of how much tweaking you have to do to your region to make the presence of canon Pokémon (and only canon Pokémon) make sense. Not to mention you actually have to go through the entire 'dex to decide which ones make sense for your region in the first place. So my point by bringing up all those fics and their universes was to say, "This is how other people have done the entire fakemon-and-fan-region-thing, so feel free to look at these and use them as examples because, absolutely, you can totally do it if you put your mind to it, and it's just as viable an option as using canon Pokémon."

    Of course, there are also fan-created regions populated with fakemon that don't work, but where those fall short are the same places where creating original characters or concepts fall short: the narration just doesn't hold up in one way or another. The description falls flat, the backstory doesn't make sense, and so forth.

    I mean, to put it even simpler, think of it like this (and this point also addresses the fact that you have to come up with the details of a fakemon): a lot of original fiction authors do this all the time. Fantasy, sci-fi, and even horror authors in particular create their own worlds and their own rules within those worlds, and they have the option of populating those worlds with creatures of their own creations. Yes, those authors also have the option of doing something based on something else (like set a story within a high fantasy realm full of dragons and fairies and other things in old folklore), but it doesn't take an entire creativity team to pull off something entirely new. It just takes a bit of creativity and ambition, both of which you're training to develop when you write fanfiction anyway.

    That and I'm really struggling to understand why people aren't interested in fakemon in general. (I don't mean you at this point but instead all the people who actually do say they don't care for fakemon.) I mean, I accept that some people don't like fakemon because not everything floats everyone's boats. But when people say they love original characters and fan-created regions but refuse to read anything with fakemon in it (which is something I've seen people do, not necessarily you), that reads to me as saying, "I love apples and apples, but I refuse to eat apples."
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 25th July 2012 at 7:13 PM.

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    I think, personally, my dislike for Fakemon (is that what they're called? LOL) comes from the fact that there are already 649 pokemon in existence. Not saying that's too many or even enough, and if Gamefreak makes a Gen 6, I'll eat that up just like the previous 5. But there are 649 pokemon in existence and probably 500 of them don't receive enough love (especially in fanfics) as it is. Why bother creating new pokemon that your readers aren't going to be familiar with at all when you can just use some of the underloved/underappreciated pokemon out there? Why bother creating Zermantix (I just made that up, so I hope no one who created a "Zermantix" is offended) when you can find a way to make Luvdisc or Ariados or Tangela or Beedrill (I could literally go on and on and on...) interesting? It just seems more worthwhile, IMO.

    And, considering there are about 50 different kinds of apples, I doubt you'll find too many people who love them all. I know if I have a choice, I'll eat Granny Smith all day, but I'll probably turn away a Gala.


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    Guys, I have a question based around original regions - this is important for me, as I'm working on an original region.

    So, for this region, do I do it in the style of the games, with eight gyms and around 15/16 towns/cities, and a selection of places of interest, or do I do it anime-style, making it much larger, with a variety of towns cities and places of interest, and lots of gyms with the potential to have larger badges cases, and gyms that aren't just type-themed? I mean, Kanto and Johto were shown to have 37 badges between them. What would you recommend?

    As for Fakemon, I do like them, but I wouldn't personally use them in a story unless I had images up of their appearance, of which I'm working on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid87 View Post
    Why bother creating new pokemon that your readers aren't going to be familiar with at all when you can just use some of the underloved/underappreciated pokemon out there? Why bother creating Zermantix (I just made that up, so I hope no one who created a "Zermantix" is offended) when you can find a way to make Luvdisc or Ariados or Tangela or Beedrill (I could literally go on and on and on...) interesting? It just seems more worthwhile, IMO.
    If you were using a canon region or a story that would call for those Pokémon, that would be logical, but you can't really say that a region based on Japan will have the exact same flora and fauna as a region based on Egypt for the same reasons you can't say Japan has the same flora and fauna as Egypt. Every location in a world is different geographically and climatically, and as such, every location in the world doesn't necessarily have what it takes to support the exact same biosphere. That's why it made a lot of sense to have Unova (a region based on a location in the United States) have completely different Pokémon than Kanto and Johto (Japanese-based regions) in the first Gen V games. This is also why Hoenn has drastically different (and more tropical-oriented) Pokémon than the more temperate Sinnoh. Sure, it would make sense to have some canon (or cross-canon, in the case of the games) Pokémon in a completely different region (which is why it's still somewhat easy to swallow that Unova now has more Pokémon that originated in Japanese-based regions) because sometimes, a duck is a duck is a duck. Psyduck, for example, is a generic duck and not a species of duck, so you can probably hand-wave like crazy and say that it makes sense for Psyduck to appear in the same place as Ducklett and have a reader buy that. But once you create a region that's populated with only canon Pokémon, it starts to get awkward unless you have a very good reason for doing it (like Orre does, for a canon example), especially if that region is meant to be remote and removed from the canon ones. That would be a lot like saying that, yes, Canada is a completely different country from Japan, but they're actually internally exactly the same.

    That's a lot of the point I was making in that original post. You could have a region full of canon Pokémon, but you'd have to explain the crap out of why they're there, as opposed to creating a region full of fakemon and having it make a little more sense by default because you're creating Pokémon specifically to fit the geography, climate, and maybe even culture of that particular region. (Assuming that's what you're doing, anyway. If you create a random Pokémon that makes absolutely no sense for where you're placing it -- like putting a Pokémon based on a television set in the middle of a region based entirely on Amish country for absolutely no apparent reason -- then... that would make you interesting. In ways you probably didn't intend.)

    Tl;dr, the reason why you should bother is because for fan-created regions not based on the same things as the canon ones, you're going to have to explain why the flora and fauna is the same because actual biospheres don't work like that. That and you should have a reason for doing a lot of things, and "just because it's underappreciated" is not a good reason to put a Pokémon in a region.

    And then you have cases wherein the fakemon just makes more sense than a canon Pokémon in terms of the storyline. (Egotistical example: I don't think I could have written Anima Ex Machina with a Deoxys instead of a fakemon. Deoxys just doesn't do what I want my alien Pokémon to do. It'd be like ignoring canon if I wanted it to work.) But that's a given and really beside the point, but I'm just saying that, in general, people use fakemon because it just makes sense.

    Edit: As for your question, Krazy, I'd go with whatever you'd feel comfortable with there. Certainly, it'd be interesting to have a variety of gyms that don't necessarily have themes, and generally speaking, you'll want your region large enough that it wouldn't take a couple of hours (via walking) to get from one city to the next. But it also depends a little on the size and shape of your region. For example, the Orange Islands in the anime canon had only four gyms (five if you counted the champion's arena). Either that, or the regional league only required you to earn four badges. But then again, given that each island is small and that each island is vastly spread out by huge expanses of water and that a lot of the Orange Islands are apparently uninhabited, it just makes more sense to limit that number to four instead of requiring a full eight. Then, its gym styles were different (to the point where Ash didn't even directly battle one of the gym leaders and never had to), but that's because the culture of the islands is completely different compared to its neighbors to the north.

    So I guess the answer to your question can be summed up with, "Fan-created regions are awesome and give you a lot of creativity, and what you should do should probably depend on what kind of region you're developing."
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 25th July 2012 at 8:13 PM.

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    I think some of the reason people are more iffy on fake Pokémon than made-up regions or characters is that while the particular regions and characters of the Pokémon franchise aren't that integral to it - what with how the franchise itself goes through regions and characters like cheap underwear - for many people the Pokémon themselves are. So people don't want to read about fake Pokémon for the same reason many people in fandoms that are more based around the canon characters aren't interested in fics about original characters: it's the canonical Pokémon that they're here to read about, and fanfics largely or mostly about fake Pokémon would fail to strike them as something they'd want to read the same way someone who reads, say, House fanfiction might not have any interest in reading a purported House fanfic that's all about a bunch of original characters.

    I mean, I'm all for fake Pokémon personally, but when a fic has only fake Pokémon it often feels a little distant from the Pokémon world we know and love, and for some even just a lot of fake Pokémon could bring about that kind of effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    [...]

    That and I'm really struggling to understand why people aren't interested in fakemon in general. (I don't mean you at this point but instead all the people who actually do say they don't care for fakemon.) I mean, I accept that some people don't like fakemon because not everything floats everyone's boats. But when people say they love original characters and fan-created regions but refuse to read anything with fakemon in it (which is something I've seen people do, not necessarily you), that reads to me as saying, "I love apples and apples, but I refuse to eat apples."
    I personally don't mind reading anything with Fakémon (Fakemon? Fakémon, eh whatever) in it. If that's the idea that the author is willing to go with, then I'll gladly continue reading so long as the quality allows me to do so.

    I think one of the reasons why a lot of people don't enjoy reading or writing stories with Fakémon is because many of them have the notion that once you introduce one Fakémon in an original region, you have to introduce the whole entire Pokédex's worth of them. Which may or may not be true, as you can write a story with 650 Pokémon in it instead of 649. But upon the first glance of a person who doesn't like reading stories with Fakémon in them, that person is likely to assume that the story will introduce a hundred or so Fakémon that are inadequately made, solely because the author has to focus on all of them at once.

    Which is totally the wrong way of viewing Fakémon, in my opinion, but to each their own way of reading, I guess.





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    Thought about throwing my two cents in as someone who lurks, er, reads a lot of fanfiction. Reading about new regions is always exciting, especially since you don't have the map in front of you - it's up to the reader to paint this entire world, and that's very exciting for a reader like me. And yet, that would mean that the writer does have a fair task on his/her hands. Still, I think that with some decent planning and research done, making an original region shouldn't be too difficult. As long as you invest time into making it, it should piece together nicely. Though, it works best when the writer adds in tidbits about the region (climate, the native people, culture, you get the point) throughout the fic, rather than having five blocks of text, back-to-back, talking about the place.

    The story I'm working on (in my head, of course) makes more sense with an original region, but I was a bit apprehensive about how readers would take to it. Reading through this thread encouraged me to go ahead with the idea.

    Also, @Krazy95 : Do whatever makes sense within the context of the story. You have to take into account many different factors when you're making a region. Just because the place is big doesn't mean it will be heavily populated, due to climate and other natural factors. It works the other way around, too: small regions can be extremely technologically advanced and have cities clumped together fairly closely, so it has a large number of settlements. Write whatever makes sense to you, but keep in mind that unless the plot of your fic demands it, you won't have to show every town, city, village and countryside in your region.

  18. #18

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    Why don't people write stories set in their own regions, with their own Pokemon?
    For me, the reason I don't is because it takes alot of work to write a whole new reigon and new Pokemon. That's why I pretty much stick to the ones I know. It's much easier for me and more fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfree View Post
    I think some of the reason people are more iffy on fake Pokémon than made-up regions or characters is that while the particular regions and characters of the Pokémon franchise aren't that integral to it - what with how the franchise itself goes through regions and characters like cheap underwear - for many people the Pokémon themselves are. So people don't want to read about fake Pokémon for the same reason many people in fandoms that are more based around the canon characters aren't interested in fics about original characters: it's the canonical Pokémon that they're here to read about, and fanfics largely or mostly about fake Pokémon would fail to strike them as something they'd want to read the same way someone who reads, say, House fanfiction might not have any interest in reading a purported House fanfic that's all about a bunch of original characters.

    I mean, I'm all for fake Pokémon personally, but when a fic has only fake Pokémon it often feels a little distant from the Pokémon world we know and love, and for some even just a lot of fake Pokémon could bring about that kind of effect.
    What strikes me as odd about this argument is that you'll see people who are absolutely against fakemon but also absolutely against using the human canon characters. Maybe it isn't all-or-nothing in this fandom, but it seems to me rather odd because wouldn't this same argument (that you're working with characters who aren't familiar to the readers) apply to original characters too on a logical level? Granted, the Pokémon are iconic to the franchise while it's arguable that Ash and the game protagonists work the same way, but on the other hand, it's not like we can't create a region that doesn't have a Pikachu and have it still be familiarly Pokémon. The original Gen V games ran on that principle, and although you had complaints about not being able to use pre-V Pokémon, it's still an extremely popular set of games. Likewise, if you have trainers, Poké Balls, and other basic elements unique to the Pokémon universe, it's still entirely possible to create something attached to the canon Pokémon world in spirit because, hey, the basic idea is still there.

    Or looking at it another way, why is it okay to be absolutely against fanfic starring characters like Ash and N but not okay to write a fic that doesn't have canon Pokémon? And I guess that's a lot of why I'm really, really curious (and admittedly just a little annoyed) about why people say no to fakemon. I get that it'd be odd to feature nothing but fakemon (and hey, even the canon regions have 'dexes that include past-gen Pokémon, so by all means, feel free to include canon Pokémon in your fan region), but I think your explanation would mean there's a heavy double-standard going on here.

    ...Which honestly wouldn't be anything new for Pokémon fanfic, but hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    What strikes me as odd about this argument is that you'll see people who are absolutely against fakemon but also absolutely against using the human canon characters. Maybe it isn't all-or-nothing in this fandom, but it seems to me rather odd because wouldn't this same argument (that you're working with characters who aren't familiar to the readers) apply to original characters too on a logical level? Granted, the Pokémon are iconic to the franchise while it's arguable that Ash and the game protagonists work the same way, but on the other hand, it's not like we can't create a region that doesn't have a Pikachu and have it still be familiarly Pokémon. The original Gen V games ran on that principle, and although you had complaints about not being able to use pre-V Pokémon, it's still an extremely popular set of games. Likewise, if you have trainers, Poké Balls, and other basic elements unique to the Pokémon universe, it's still entirely possible to create something attached to the canon Pokémon world in spirit because, hey, the basic idea is still there.

    Or looking at it another way, why is it okay to be absolutely against fanfic starring characters like Ash and N but not okay to write a fic that doesn't have canon Pokémon? And I guess that's a lot of why I'm really, really curious (and admittedly just a little annoyed) about why people say no to fakemon. I get that it'd be odd to feature nothing but fakemon (and hey, even the canon regions have 'dexes that include past-gen Pokémon, so by all means, feel free to include canon Pokémon in your fan region), but I think your explanation would mean there's a heavy double-standard going on here.

    ...Which honestly wouldn't be anything new for Pokémon fanfic, but hey.
    I don't want to overstep my boundaries here because you were incredibly welcoming to me when I started posting in the FF forums here and you are obviously one of the most well-spoken, intelligent, and warm folks on this board, but I find your argument to be a bit condescending. People are allowed to enjoy whatever they enjoy; it doesn't necessarily mean they have "double-standards" or are hypocrites; it just means they have personal tastes. I, personally, enjoy the way cocktail sauce and spaghetti sauce taste, but I can't stand ketchup or tomato soup. That doesn't mean I have some insidious secret agenda or "double-standard" against tomato farmers. It means I like cocktail sauce and spaghetti sauce but not ketchup or tomato soup. That's all there is to it.

    I can't speak for others, but I can say the reason I don't like canon character fics is because I haven't watched the cartoon in years--probably a decade. I don't KNOW anything about those characters anymore, so I feel I am unqualified to comment on whether or not they are being portrayed accurately. That said I enjoy--and I think a lot of people here also do enjoy--fics with canon video game characters. Professor Rowan and Barry are both in Brothers' Bond (my fic). I like gotpika's Opelucid's Investments story about Iris and Drayden. I have not taken a lot of time to read Mrs. Lovett's Roots story, but I liked what I have read. I liked Ememew's Weak, which was about Iris and Bianca. I have not seen a lot of resistance to stories like those. Granted, I have seen resistance to Ash-based stories (or other cartoon character stories like those involving May or Max or Dawn), but I can't explain why other readers dislike those; all I can do is give my reason for shying away (which is, again, personal unfamiliarity with characters that the reader is supposed to be familiar with). I don't watch Dr. Who, so I don't go reading Dr. Who fanfics and telling the authors what they are or aren't doing wrong.

    And, conversely, if a story had maybe ONE fakemon that was the focus of the story and amazingly fleshed out, I would enjoy that, too. I'm noyt saying "No Fakemon ever!" But do I have very little interest in a story revolving around several fakemon because I don't think they'll be fleshed out very well, and I'll be left with incomplete pictures/ideas of them in my head. I don't want to read about a world full of fakemon when we have so many REALMON (see what I did there?) that I want to read about. Akin to what Dragonfree said...just because I like Pokemon doesn't mean I want to read Digimon fanfic, so why would I want to read about other creatures that aren't really pokemon?

    Also, as for what you said about flora and fauna of Egypt vs. Japan and that being the reason why an original region "needs" to have fakemon...I don't buy that. I know the general notion is that Sinnoh, Kanto, Hoenn, etc are all separate continents or counties, but...where is that set in stone? Why couldn't someone visualize them (and, hence, write them) as though they were just states? Or large cities with distinct boroughs or towns? If I visualize Kanto/Johto/Sinnoh as, say, Pennsylvania/Ohio/Minnesota and I want to create a new region I visualize as Michigan...there's no need for sweeping changes to the natural animal and plantlife contained within.

    I don't know, though...I guess my point is: people can read and enjoy whatever they want. I'm not offended by it, and I don't think it behooves anyone to accuse those people of having double-standards or being hypocrites (I don't mean to say you called anyone a hypocrite; I'm just reading into your use of the phrase double-standards). To be honest, if someone was telling me I am supposed to like ketchup because it means I have a double-standard if I don't...that doesn't make me more likely to want to try it. It just makes me think that person is pushy.
    Last edited by Sid87; 26th July 2012 at 12:13 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid87 View Post
    I don't want to overstep my boundaries here because you were incredibly welcoming to me when I started posting in the FF forums here and you are obviously one of the most well-spoken, intelligent, and warm folks on this board, but I find your argument to be a bit condescending. People are allowed to enjoy whatever they enjoy; it doesn't necessarily mean they have "double-standards" or are hypocrites; it just means they have personal tastes. I, personally, enjoy the way cocktail sauce and spaghetti sauce taste, but I can't stand ketchup or tomato soup. That doesn't mean I have some insidious secret agenda or "double-standard" against tomato farmers. It means I like cocktail sauce and spaghetti sauce but not ketchup or tomato soup. That's all there is to it.
    I'm not saying that you're not allowed to like one thing but dislike another. I'm saying that fundamentally, Pokémon are characters in themselves. To say you don't like original Pokémon but like canon characters or vice versa is basically saying you don't like original characters but don't like original characters. Like I said, I honestly don't care who or what you like, but I have noticed that there's been hostility or close-mindedness when it comes to fics about one or the other (which is why it's very difficult to find people to review a fic about canon characters, for example), and that's what prompted my comments. I could go on and say there's a lot of hostility towards anime-based fics -- and that part's true in the sense that I've seen people brush off fans of the anime as being collectively weeaboos -- despite the fact that they might be manga fans or at least fans of a Japanese video game. While, again, I've said that you can't force yourself to like something, what I meant was that it's rather silly to brush off all fics of X as being inherently bad, more difficult to write, or more divorced from familiar parts of fandom than Y.

    And, conversely, if a story had maybe ONE fakemon that was the focus of the story and amazingly fleshed out, I would enjoy that, too. I'm noyt saying "No Fakemon ever!" But do I have very little interest in a story revolving around several fakemon because I don't think they'll be fleshed out very well,
    For example, if you don't mind me saying. How do you know that the fakemon in question will be inherently not fleshed out very well if you don't read the story and see whether or not they are? :/ To be honest, off the top of my head, I remember more fics that were able to flesh out multiple fakemon than I can fics that weren't, and anyway, if you can glean the writer's writing style from the first few paragraphs (and determine just how well they can put together details), there's no reason why you should be afraid that the fakemon they include will be horrendously written. After all, if the story lacks well-written description and general narration on the first page, you can generally assume that the fakemon would suck and hit the back button. However, if the story has an abundance of well-written elements on the first page, why would there be an exception made to the fakemon it introduces?

    "But!" some of you might say. "I can't picture a fakemon completely like I would be able to picture a Pikachu completely!" Well, sure, but you also can't picture original characters completely. A good writer is able to describe enough to give you an idea, but no writer will be able to give you a complete mental image. However, that's not a point that's exclusive to fakemon. You'll never, for example, be able to know every last detail of a fan-created gym leader's outfit the way you'll have a complete mental image of Misty or Brock. So to discount fakemon for that point is basically to discount original characters as a whole.

    Akin to what Dragonfree said...just because I like Pokemon doesn't mean I want to read Digimon fanfic, so why would I want to read about other creatures that aren't really pokemon?
    I'm not quite sure what this point goes with. I mean, part of my earlier argument was that if you have the basics of a Pokémon world, it can still be considered Pokémon. As I've said, that's how Gen V worked. Sure, you had people complain that there weren't pre-V Pokémon in the original BW games, but you also didn't have anyone question whether or not it was Pokémon.

    Also, as for what you said about flora and fauna of Egypt vs. Japan and that being the reason why an original region "needs" to have fakemon...I don't buy that. I know the general notion is that Sinnoh, Kanto, Hoenn, etc are all separate continents or counties, but...where is that set in stone?
    I never said it was. I said that they're separate regions, which is absolutely canon in every single game. (But for the record, it's also canon that Unova is separated from Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh. It's called a far-away land in comparison to the others.) You can see that every region has its own geographic features and its own climate. Hoenn is not as temperate or mountainous as Sinnoh. Orre is more desert-like than Kanto. Unova is (in one of the games especially) more urban than Johto. Likewise, it's canon (via the games and the anime) that Unova is removed from the other regions. With all of that, it makes sense that each one has their own sets of Pokémon.

    More than that, it's shown that Pokémon don't just appear anywhere. If you try to argue that you can fit any Pokémon in your fan-created region, you'd also be arguing that Cacturne should logically be part of Lake Acuity's population. You don't just put Pokémon down; they have to make logical sense to be there. That's why I said that if you can explain why canon Pokémon are there, by all means, go for it. But you should also be aware that it wouldn't make sense for a completely new place (read: that's not based on a location or area similar to the canon regions) to not have unique flora and fauna of its own, and as such, you should be willing to populate it with fakemon on some level. For example, the birds in the United States aren't all the same as the ones that appear in Asia, so yes, you should be creating Pokémon to mimic that kind of phenomenon if you're creating a region removed from Johto, Kanto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh unless you have a good reason not to (the way Orre does).

    Why couldn't someone visualize them (and, hence, write them) as though they were just states?
    Because they're canonically regions. The South (a region) of the United States isn't exactly the same as New England (another region). They don't have the same geographies, the same climates, the same cultures, or even the same plants and animals (unless invasive species were introduced).

    Or large cities with distinct boroughs or towns?
    Because they're canonically regions.

    To be honest, if someone was telling me I am supposed to like ketchup because it means I have a double-standard if I don't...that doesn't make me more likely to want to try it. It just makes me think that person is pushy.
    Again, I'm not saying that you have to like ketchup. I'm just saying you're (general you're, not specific you're) close-minded if you say anyone who likes ketchup can't cook if you yourself refuse to try ketchup at all, and that's something that happens in this fandom a lot.

    Edit: To simplify, a summary of my arguments because I know that my posts are legit long and possibly go everywhere:

    1. It's not that much harder to create fakemon than it is to create a fan-created region. It doesn't take a creative genius to do both at once and pull it off.

    2. Fakemon are fan-created species, which in turn are very much like fan-created characters because the problems that both may suffer are incredibly similar to one another (if not the same in the case of fakemon that happen to be characters within the fic).

    3. If you create a fan-created region that isn't based on anything else within canon and is in fact removed from the canon regions, you need to have an explanation as to why that region is populated solely with canon Pokémon. This is because:
    - 3a. Different climates = different species.
    - 3b. Different geographies = different species.
    - 3c. It's far easier to create a population that fits your world instead of attempt to force someone else's creations to do it.

    4. Point #3 is why canon regions that have more new Pokémon than old (like Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova) make sense.

    5. Point #3 does not mean that I think you should populate your fan-created region with only fakemon. It means that there's logic behind creating a region with them, and that's because you're creating an entirely new space. At no point have I said that you should never use canon Pokémon ever in a fan region. I said that if you can explain why they're there, feel free to use canon Pokémon. (See the Psyduck example.) However, in many cases, it just makes more sense to use fakemon because you have a brand-new area that canonmon won't necessarily fit. For example, you can't put Snover in a region based on Antarctica for fairly obvious reasons (read: it's a desert), but you can put Piplup and Spheal there. But if you put an entire region there for whatever reason, it'd be boring if all you had was Piplup and Spheal, so it's up to you to come up with other Pokémon to put there because there's not that many Pokémon that would logically hang around the Antarctic. (What if, for example, you actually wanted Fire-types down there? Most current Fire-types are designed with the idea that they're going to be around hot areas, not in a cold place like the Antarctic. Yes, you can have Growlithe hang around human settlements, but what if you wanted a pack of wild ones?) Likewise, you might be able to put Cacturne and Claydol in a region based on the American Southwest, but if you wanted a lizard, you can't really put Kecleon there (because chameleons don't live there naturally). You can't really put Charmander there either unless you want to make starters readily available. Bagon might work, but what if you wanted something that wasn't a Dragon-type for obvious reasons? What if you also wanted the other flora and fauna of the Southwest but can't force Marill to be a kangaroo mouse or Sudowoodo to be a juniper tree? That's why, yes, you'd need fakemon.
    5a. In other words, fakemon are functional ideas. Writers "bother" with them (to take a word from your earlier post) because canonmon can't fit every situation or location. You can try, but you'd be stretching yourself so much you might as well just create a fakemon to the exact specifications you need.

    6. Tl;dr, fakemon are not pointless, which was my entire argument besides "I think it's rather silly for people to say that fakemon is a weak concept in all cases." Likewise, there's no reason to believe that multiple fakemon at once will be badly executed if you can tell that the rest of the writer's skill isn't that bad, and there's really no reason to say that fakemon as a concept are any worse or any different than original characters from an objective standpoint (like a lot of people in this fandom seem to argue).

    So yes, I'd say it's fair to claim the fandom upholds slight double-standards because lots of people blow off fakemon as being a terrible concept without even giving them a try but have no problems with fan regions or fan characters, even if they don't realize that's what they're doing. It's one thing to not like something, but it's another to judge someone or their work without even giving them a try just because you automatically think their work isn't going to be good because it features X. I mean, I don't read a lot of romance, but I don't think that every romance novel is automatically subpar compared to what I do read. I just don't really care for reading romance novels. (Fun side note: But this doesn't mean that I won't.) But there's so many people in this fandom who automatically think anime-verse fic or shounen ai or shipping fic or fakemon fic or insert something else here is going to be terrible without even reading it, just because it happens to be anime-verse, shounen ai, shipping fic, fakemon fic, or insert something else here, and frankly, that's the part that I object to because that belittles the writers of those things before they even get started and discourages them from bothering to go after something they want to write (because they know they'll be pre-judged for it/there's no way it will ever get attention because it's not something everyone else likes).
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 26th July 2012 at 1:30 AM.

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    I honestly don’t mind fakemon. Heck, the main reason I haven’t written about any of my original Pokémon is because I’m still holding out hope that I’ll find a way to convince Gamefreak to include them as real Pokémon in a future gen I wrote the story I made them for when I was probably about ten or twelve and it was full of Sues and plot points that didn’t make a whole lot of sense. Even looking back now, I think my fakemon were fine but I’d have to do a huge amount of rewriting the human characters and plot if I were to ever try to post it for people to read. (Well, that, and the fact that some of my fakemon have since been made redundant by realmon that filled the same niche – such as Leafeon acting as a Grass Eeveelution over “Seedeon”). But enough about feeding my own ego . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Sid87 View Post
    I liked Ememew's Weak, which was about Iris and Bianca.
    OK, now I’ve done enough feeding my own ego (thanks for the compliment, by the way). I just happen to see fakemon as equivalent of anything else original added into a fic. As long as they’re well established through the author’s description and kept consistent (i.e. don’t change its powers around midway or give different individuals of the same species contradictory traits without adequately explaining why they would be different from each other), they can be interesting additions to a story. The inclusion of original trainers doesn’t mean canon characters have to be entirely absent from a story – an OC can meet up with such characters as Brock, Fantina or Burgh, people in a fake region can reference events in a canon one or have old Pokémon available to capture. Heck, a fakemon region might even have a mix of some canon critters wandering around with their original counterparts. Likewise, Pokémon and characters can be equally well or poorly written based on whether the author writes them well, not based on whether they’re fan-made or canon.

    I know Unova’s already been brought up, but I really do think the same principle applies. The first B/W games did not include any of the past regions’ Pokémon until the postgame. Is it really only because it was put together by Gamefreak and released officially that the new species introduced are considered Pokémon? Or is it the other points (types, abilities, the fact that they’re caught in Pokéballs, etc.) that make apparent that it takes place in the same universe that make them so?

    Though, just a question: Why are fan-made Pokemon called “fake”mon while fan-made characters are called “original characters?” Aren’t they both just as “fake” or “original” as the other? Or is this term just a holdover from other parts of fandom? (I hope I don't sound like I'm reading too much into this by this question. I guess it's just that since I like writing, I spend a lot of time thinking about how word-choice alone influences one's opinion on something.)
    Last edited by Ememew; 26th July 2012 at 2:34 AM.
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    Ememew: I can't claim to know the full fan-etymology of either, but I would assume it's a holdover of some sort. There are, for the record, people who call fakemon "original pokémon" (not many, but there are), and I've seen people object to the use of the term "original character" with a preference for "fan character" instead. I'd guess "fake character" just sounds a little awkward to most people, though I will note I've also seen "fake gym leader", "fake Elite Four", "fake professor", etc..

    To the topic at large, big bouncing disclaimer time: I like fakemon. I make fakemon. I make kind of a lot of fakemon, complete with their own regions and related characters and stats. Were I able to devote more time to fic-reading in general, I'd probably spend more time actively looking for fanfic that involves them (Rebirth has fakemon? oh, great, all the more reason for me to feel worse about not having had time to start in on it yet). Possibly I am slightly biased when it comes to discussing their inclusion in a wider range of creative works.

    That said, no, for the most part I would not post any fanfic relating to those regions on a place like Serebii, at least not anytime soon. The simple reason is that there just isn't an audience for it here, or not one that's very vocal about the fact that they enjoy such things. Some people like Dragonfree and a few others who've been mentioned (though Dragonfree's fic is the only one out of those I've read personally) have done well for themselves, and so maybe something I might hypothetically post might catch a few dedicated readers, but I wouldn't count on it, and that's fine. If I do write anything I'll post it first and foremost on my own dedicated fakedex site, or on deviantART, because I know that people who visit my site or my dA gallery are already doing so specifically because they want to see what's up with my silly fakemans. Bad thing about those is that they're not the best venues for constructive reviews (or any reviews at all, in the case of my site), so I might theoretically try a site like Serebii for those fics down the line, but I absolutely understand that it would be posted in a place where people have no prior context, where they tend not to prefer this sort of thing, and where, yes, it might seem a little overwhelming if they don't know what they're getting into.

    Now, it doesn't bug me at all that some people don't like fakes, and it doesn't matter all that much to me what their reason for disliking fakes is. Some people just don't care for fakemon, and I'd no more expect them to go out of their way to give a fakemon fic a chance than I myself would want to give any particularly shipping-heavy fanfic a chance. Don't like, don't read! Simple as that. What strikes me as unfair is the generalization (that many people make, not just anyone in this topic) that because I've chosen to include any number fakemon in my fic that that's somehow going to be detrimental to its overall enjoyability, that I'm "taking on too much" or "unable to make them feel as real or as necessary as canon pokémon" or whatever. With all due respect, you don't know that I can't do that, at least not without giving it a chance, and it is a bit insulting to hear anyone word it that way. If you don't want to read fakemon fics because you would rather see attention paid to underrated canonmon, or for whatever other reason, then I can respect that and won't go out of my way to change your mind, but I'd feel a bit better if someone skipped reading my hypothetical fakemon fic just because they don't like the subject matter than because they're making the assumption that the very inclusion of that subject matter will drag its quality down. Are science-fiction stories involving aliens automatically of a lesser quality if those aliens are an author-created species/race as opposed to something more traditional, like a grey, a xenomorph or the Mothman?

    To paraphrase Jax, if I write a story with fakemon in it and the fakemon become a genuine distraction, that speaks to my ability to handle that sort of creature or character as a writer; it has absolutely nothing to do with the feasibility of fakemon being in fanfic. At this point in time I can safely say that any fakemon fic I tried to post here probably would be bad and distracting, but that's because I'm rusty as all get-out when it comes to writing in general. It'd be every bit as bad if I posted a fic about Sabrina or a pikachu or an OC starting a journey in Unova or whatever else. But I like to think that I do a good job creating my fakemon as far as making a fakedex goes—really, it's completely accurate to say that what I'm doing is a worldbuilding exercise, its entire point being making these things, the people who live with them and the regions they live in look at least a little believable—and so I'd also like to think that if I could get my writing up to par that those fakemon would fit into the story I'm trying to tell as naturally and enjoyably as anything else.
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    I would like to add my another argument here, where this is no more problems of writer or reader themselves, but rather the Pokemon franchise itself, and the perspective of we as a Pokemon fan.

    The main selling characters for the whole Pokemon franchise is the species of monster that called "Pokemon", not the human characters, not the region, not the culture of the Pokemon world, nor the principles or laws of how the Pokemon World functions. The franchise can keeps on marketing with purely only the Pokemon species without the human being, without a specific known region, without the principal culture of the Pokemon World. But, without that principal species of creature called "Pokemon", Pokemon is not Pokemon, and other things that related to Pokemon will not be so popular then.
    I know there are fans that loves purely the things that are not the creature species of Pokemon, such as the human characters, the regions, the world, and other things. But still, we as a fan of Pokemon fall in love first with the Pokemon species, then secondly came those things that are not Pokemon. Yes, one may grow the love of the latter to a level higher than the Pokemon creature itself, but if it was not the Pokemon creature itself, the fans won't started to love those things that are related to Pokemon.
    And we as a fan of Pokemon, grew to adapt the Pokemon franchise just like that. That's why other than the main series RPG, the Pokemon Company also made many spin-off games like Pokemon Stadium series or Pokemon Battle Revolution (no specific set region), Pokemon Dungeon series and Pokepark series (no human character), Pokeon Ranger series (no Pokemon battles as in the main series), Trading cards (nothing to do with the Pokemon World itself at all), and many others, and yet we bought its goods and ideas.
    Also forget to mention, one should have notice that in the Pokemon franchise, different human characters and different region/world were designed for different medias and different series. In the anime, we have Ash, but that is techincally not Red in the game, nor Red in Adventure manga; then onto the 2nd Gen we have Gold/Ethan and Crys/Lyra; 3rd Gen of Brendon and May... the list goes on. Other than the principal regions of Kanto/Johto/Hoenn/Shinnoh/Unova, we have Orre, Fiore, Almia, Olivia, and many unnamed ones that features in other medias. So even in the canon, the protagonist(s) and regions and the world are keep on changing, new ones are always develop for the new media, there is just not a fixed world in the Pokemon franchise. The only thing that is being fixed will only be the creature species that called "Pokemon".

    Therefore, I understand that most writers' idea of "If Game Freak can keeps on building new regions and new Pokemon, why can't I?". Yes obviously, anyone are more than welcome to do so if they wanted to, but just wanted to say, creating original human characters and original world is one thing, creating original fan-created Pokemon is another thing.
    Given that a fan work is set in a different Pokemon World with distinctive human characters, but as long as there exists the canon Pokemon creature in the work, fans will still accept it as Pokemon, doesn't matter where/when/how the Pokemon were portrayed in that media. This is not only for fan work, but also in canon works; they tend to alter everything but just not the Pokemon creature itself. (Take the example of Pokemon Conquest, or even the Pokemon Reburst manga)

    I guess fan-created region and characters can pull it off more easily than fan-created Pokemon is because the Pokemon species is cored to the franchise. In the point of view of most fans, Pokemon that are not published by Game Freak will not 'feel' like "Pokemon", even though you titled it as Pokemon (One fact: I don't know how many people knew about this, but in the olden days where Gameboy Color still existed, Telefang series was bootleggedly translated into English as Pokemon Jade/Diamond, where very few of the Pokemon fan accept it as Pokemon). And hence, fanfic that features only Fakemons will not be that popular among Pokemon fans, and fanfic writers generally don't attempt to do so because Fakemon is not the Pokemon they loved.
    Please remember, we fanfic writers write fanfic because we loved the canon work. Fan artist creates original fan-made Pokemon also because they loved the canon Pokemon. But very seldom we write fanfic of fan-made Pokemon because the love for Fakemon is only second after the canon Pokemon. If one is not interested in Fakemon from the first place, then one will not write fanfic of Fakemon.


    *** And to JX:
    I guess you went a little overboard on the issue of WHY original fan-created region should populated with canon Pokemon. Yes, creating an original world doesn't mean one can do whatever he wanted, climate/geography/location are all important points to consider when placing certain species of canon Pokemon in the original region, but I think you are a little bit over-concerned, because even in the canon Pokedex, it already describes what kind of habitat environment the Pokemon would dwell in. If the writer decided that habitat of Spheal should be in a volcano, we can only say that he did it wrongly to the absolute extent, but that doesn't mean he must then develop Fakemon for his own original region. All he need to do is just to reconsider the placement of habitat for different Pokemon.
    One would need to create Fakemon only if one creates a world that has climate and geography that is absolutely incomparable to the canon Pokemon World.
    Last edited by Crystal; 26th July 2012 at 5:40 PM.
    "人には知らない世界はそこに存在する、そして人には知らない冒険はそこに始まってる"
    Chapter 1: 謎の世界の生き物、闘うトレーナーたち

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    Therefore, I understand that most writers' idea of "If Game Freak can keeps on building new regions and new Pokemon, why can't I?". Yes obviously, anyone are more than welcome to do so if they wanted to, but just wanted to say, creating original human characters and original world is one thing, creating original fan-created Pokemon is another thing.
    First and foremost, no, I wasn't denying that Pokémon are what are most familiar to fans, but you'll want to keep in mind that canon already does things like this. Think about it. Pikachu is the Pokémon franchise's mascot, but they don't appear in Black or White. In fact, most pre-V Pokémon don't appear before the E4. Does this automatically make Black and White not Pokémon because they feature mostly Gen V 'mons? No. So let's say a fan created Unova, not Game Freak. Does this automatically mean that Unova wouldn't be familiar because it doesn't feature Pokémon that were created just for that particular region? No. The fundamentals of what makes Pokémon what it is are still there. It's just that the Pokémon that existed before Unova aren't.

    While, yes, Unova is a canon region, no one can argue that it deviated so far from the franchise that it's no longer recognizably Pokémon. So it's difficult to argue that the same would happen if a capable writer created their own region but followed Unova's (and Hoenn's and Sinnoh's) lead by stocking the region with a bunch of fakemon. That doesn't automatically make their writing sub-par compared to trainer fics set in canon regions or in fan-created regions where the Pokémon are completely canon.

    In fact, to add another point, if we're going to use the "Game Freak did this or that" argument, then it would be awkward if there were absolutely no fan-created Pokémon for the simple reason that Game Freak doesn't release a new main region without them.

    Moreover, again, creating a fan-created Pokémon has a lot of similarities to creating original characters in other fandoms. If you're okay, for example, with writing an entire Digimon fanfic with different Digidestined (even ones teamed up with underrated canon Digimon) or a Sailor Moon fanfic focusing on fan-created senshi or a Harry Potter fanfic that focuses on witches and wizards who aren't in some way connected to Harry and company going to Hogwarts, then you really shouldn't have any problem with a writer creating a fan-made Pokémon.

    Pokemon that are not published by Game Freak will not 'feel' like "Pokemon", even though you titled it as Pokemon (One fact: I don't know how many people knew about this, but in the olden days where Gameboy Color still existed, Telefang series was bootleggedly translated into English as Pokemon Jade/Diamond, where very few of the Pokemon fan accept it as Pokemon).
    But what's the difference between Jade/Diamond and Black/White? Both feature mostly Pokémon (or "Pokémon" in the case of Jade/Diamond) that weren't seen prior to the release of the games, a completely new region, completely new characters, and so forth. And given that the bootlegs were fashioned to look exactly like something that was released by Game Freak (because that was the point), we can't rightly say that fans looked at whether or not Game Freak released those Pokémon as the one factor that caused them to think it wasn't Pokémon. So what was the difference?

    Telefang was literally a different game. You weren't a trainer. You didn't catch Pokémon in balls. You used your cell phone to call them. The Pokémon spoke and were unique characters. Even the battle screen was completely different. Black/White, if you looked at it for five seconds without taking note of the Pokémon, looks exactly like a Pokémon game. The battle style is the same, the basic storyline (that you're a trainer) is the same, the capture method is the same, and so forth. It's the basics that make Black/White a Pokémon game, not the Pokémon themselves.

    That's why you have a lot of hacks floating around out there that confuse people. There are actually die-hard Pokémon fans out there (or fans who claim to be die-hard) who swear that games like Pokémon Chaos Black or Pokémon Quartz are actual games. It's not because they feature canon Pokémon (because they don't at all); it's because the basics and graphics are so similar that they simply think they're real games.

    And hence, fanfic that features only Fakemons will not be that popular among Pokemon fans,
    It depends on where and when you go. They actually used to be decently popular on FFNet and certain (mostly defunct) large-scale forums back in the day. They're not entirely in-vogue now, but it's not like they're unheard of.

    Please remember, we fanfic writers write fanfic because we loved the canon work.
    Well, of course, but the beauty of Pokémon is that it's a sandbox. You're encouraged just as much to develop new worlds and new characters for it as you are to write about canon material. I mean, canon practically pounds it into your head with all franchise material that there's really no limit to the number of Pokémon that could possibly exist, and we only see a tiny piece of the world at any given time. Because we're not bound to one particular character's story the way we are in other fandoms, we're free to explore the rest of the world as we see fit. We're not deviating from the canon. We're expanding on canon by exploring a piece of the world that canon hasn't yet covered. So long as the basics are there, of course.

    Fan artist creates original fan-made Pokemon also because they loved the canon Pokemon.
    Which means that there's really no reason why a fanfic author should be discouraged from writing about fan-made Pokémon, so long as they can translate the same kinds of ideas that fan artists create into words. Why would a concept be okay in one form of fan expression but taboo in another, even if the fan knows what they're doing when they tackle it?

    I guess you went a little overboard on the issue of WHY original fan-created region should populated with canon Pokemon. Yes, creating an original world doesn't mean one can do whatever he wanted, climate/geography/location are all important points to consider when placing certain species of canon Pokemon in the original region, but I think you are a little bit over-concerned, because even in the canon Pokedex, it already describes what kind of habitat environment the Pokemon would dwell in. If the writer decided that habitat of Spheal should be in a volcano, we can only say that he did it wrongly to the absolute extent, but that doesn't mean he must then develop Fakemon for his own original region. All he need to do is just to reconsider the placement of habitat for different Pokemon.
    I'd hate to say it, but I think you missed the point. Or at least the one in italicized, bold letters, anyway, because I had literally six very rambling points there.

    I wasn't saying that a writer should put Spheal in a volcano. (Yes, I know it was an example, but I'm going off that to form another example.) I was saying that if a writer wants to create a region in which there's a volcano, they should be free to do so. However, they should think of what Pokémon would logically live there. If they want to put canon Pokémon like Slugma and Magmar there, by all means, but if they want, say, a Flying-type that can survive extreme heat but isn't Moltres, then they may want to come up with something else. The story will dictate what a writer needs, and the terrain they've already created will dictate what options they have.

    In other words, you've got my point backwards. I was saying that a writer should feel free to create their region's geography and climate and whatnot to whatever specifications that they want, but they shouldn't force Pokémon to fit the habitats they create. Pokémon need to be either chosen according to the habitat you have or created to the specifications that you want.

    Or in other words...

    One would need to create Fakemon only if one creates a world that has climate and geography that is absolutely incomparable to the canon Pokemon World.
    Congratulations. You agree with me.

    But to clarify, there's a lot of situations where that would apply because, as I've said earlier, every region in the world is different. The United States isn't Japan, for example, so that's why Unova Pokémon are different from Kanto and Johto Pokémon. Hence why, yes, you will most likely find yourself in a situation where you'll need to create new Pokémon to suit your needs. Or in short, there's really no reason why we as a fandom should be discouraging people from writing multiple fakemon. If someone wants to write a fic in which 75% of all Pokémon that appear in that region are fan-created, there's absolutely no reason why we should be telling them that their fic will be harder to write or that their fic will be automatically sub-par compared to fics that take place in canon regions, no matter what they do. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of people tend to say (usually when they attempt to explain their dislike for fakemon beyond "I just don't care for them"), and frankly, that's basically telling a writer what they can and can't write. That would be like me telling you that your trainer fic set in a canon region is automatically terrible just because it's a trainer fic set in a canon region and that you shouldn't be writing a trainer fic set in a canon region because no one cares, and if I did that, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be okay with it. :/
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 26th July 2012 at 9:02 PM.

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