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Thread: Obesity, a growing problem?

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    Default Obesity, a growing problem?

    So, is obesity a growing problem in our society?

    In todays life, obesity is a result of major advancments in technology, allowing less effort to be put in everyday action and giving reasons for lazyness; increased fastfood products and restaurants along with more unhealthy junk food and such; lastly increased prices on concurrent healthy produce. All of these are the reasons why.

    personally, i do think its a problem, but i have no control over this so i'm not too concerned.

    so, lets debate! Ftr: i know not all continents have an obesity problem. there are just as many hunger problems out there. this relates to areas with obese issues.
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    Well it is and then it isn't. It is because obesity does have it's problems such as high blood pressure, diabetes, heart problems etc but at the same time, people who are at a healthy weight can get those problems as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    Well it is and then it isn't. It is because obesity does have it's problems such as high blood pressure, diabetes, heart problems etc but at the same time, people who are at a healthy weight can get those problems as well.
    No, it simply is a problem.

    When I'm out in public and I have to make an effort to spot the non-chubby kids, there's a problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChedWick View Post
    No, it simply is a problem.

    When I'm out in public and I have to make an effort to spot the non-chubby kids, there's a problem.
    It's a problem for the most part but you cannot simply force someone to fix it. They either want to lose weight or they don't and this is coming from someone who is trying to do the same thing.

    (also not all weight problems happen by eating too much food, there is also thyroid issues as well)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    It's a problem for the most part but you cannot simply force someone to fix it. They either want to lose weight or they don't and this is coming from someone who is trying to do the same thing.

    (also not all weight problems happen by eating too much food, there is also thyroid issues as well)
    Truth^^^

    Im not big but I feel for fat people. Fat people get enough of being told that they are lazy and no good. A lot of times they cant help it. Some people are bigger than others, outlawing trans fats and large sodas isnt going to "cure" obesity.

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    Fast food is way too cheap. It's so tempting to go out and buy some extremely filling McDoubles instead of cooking.

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    my best friend is huge (and he's not very tall).
    and we just sit inside and play video games all day.
    so yeah if that coninues there will be a bigger chance that i'll outlast him.
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    I think it's sad, but understandable. As soon as the west world gets too fat to do anything China will take over and become the worlds centre. If kids were just taught how important it is to exercise and that you force them to do some exercise every week, and also stop using cars all the time (walk or ride a bike instead, how hard could it be?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoarang97 View Post
    I think it's sad, but understandable. As soon as the west world gets too fat to do anything China will take over and become the worlds centre. If kids were just taught how important it is to exercise and that you force them to do some exercise every week, and also stop using cars all the time (walk or ride a bike instead, how hard could it be?)
    I live in a small country town. When I was in middle and high school I had to ride the bus to school because for me to walk or ride a bike as you say would've required me to start at least 3 hours before I had to be at school. The same is also true of work when I did work. Driving in some places is a necessity not a luxury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoarang97 View Post
    I think it's sad, but understandable. As soon as the west world gets too fat to do anything China will take over and become the worlds centre. If kids were just taught how important it is to exercise and that you force them to do some exercise every week, and also stop using cars all the time (walk or ride a bike instead, how hard could it be?)
    Try walking 3 miles to school everyday at 7 in the morning, or try riding a bike through some of the worst traffic you'll ever see in your life, and then tell me how reasonable that sounds.
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    [QUOTE=Psychic;15313408]
    muscles weighs more than fat,
    Urban myth.

    Lastly, this is just an observation, but has anyone noticed the make-you-fat-make-you-lose-fat culture? Food corporations want as much of their products consumed as possible. They spend ridiculous amounts of money to convince people to eat. But those people live within a culture that shames fat. So you have beauty and health companies who swear they'll help eliminate that fat, because to them, far =/= beautiful. It's much more profitable for such companies to make you feel awful about yourself so you'll buy their products, and who is it easy to make feel awful about themselves? Fat people.
    Yeah it's all the companies fault. I mean god forbid you consume something in moderation.

    As for being in a culture that shames fat, are we really? Walk out your front door and see all the fatties you see. Obesity should not normalised.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    I'm certainly not saying that people are never at fault for their obesity. I'm simply saying there are a lot of factors that come into play and it's rather ignorant to assume that every overweight person is the way they are because they're lazy and don't care. Also, many of these studies are done under controlled conditions with laboratory animals so participator bias doesn't come into play. If someone eats well and exercises regularly but still has trouble losing weight and keeping it off, there has to be more coming into play than simply "he/she is lazy." There's not one set answer for every overweight person's situation.
    The vast majority (of adults) are though. It really is pretty simple. If you are obese you are most likely at fault, unless you're a child, in which case your parents should be stripped of the right to take care of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    .... to be extremely honest, it isn't beautiful. I don't see many overweight people being called beautiful or pretty these days unless they have this great personality.
    I disagree. I really worry that we're almost approaching the stage whereby we're normalising being fat, and it's very worrying. In the past three days alone I've read or seen several articles on how women are embracing "plus-sized" (whatever that means) role-models and seeing it as perfectly ok to be overweight (or "curvy" as it seems to be these days). Fat is not and never will be beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manafi's Dream View Post
    Try walking 3 miles to school everyday at 7 in the morning, or try riding a bike through some of the worst traffic you'll ever see in your life, and then tell me how reasonable that sounds.
    3 miles isn't very far, or if that doesn't appeal, what's wrong with walking part of the way there or back? Or walking/exercising of your own accord.

    In short, obesity is a problem, but I don't think it's going to get much better because there are simply put, too many fat apologists.

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    I'll give you the first point, and Pesky Persian covered what needed to be said there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Yeah it's all the companies fault. I mean god forbid you consume something in moderation.
    Please point out where I said that this was the only factor that contributes to the obesity problem, despite the fact that it comes after a paragraph where I gave a decent list of of other contributing factors.

    My point still stands that food companies make a profit off of selling you food and beauty/health companies make a profit off of promising to make you beautiful after eating all that food.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    As for being in a culture that shames fat, are we really? Walk out your front door and see all the fatties you see. Obesity should not normalised.
    I don't think you understand the difference between something being common VS something being accepted (and thus not shamed). Just because there are a lot of overweight people doesn't somehow prove that those people aren't shamed over their weight. I would suggest actually learning what fat shaming is, because while you claim it's not that common, it's happened in this very thread.

    I don't think anybody here is talking about normalizing obesity per say. Saying that it's possible to be healthy without being a stick is important to keep in mind. but fat shaming in itself is counterproductive because it makes the victim feel awful without actually contributing to improving their health.

    Also I lived in Canada and currently live in Israel, and a much smaller percentage of people are overweight in both places compared to the US.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Fat is not and never will be beautiful.
    Correction: fat used to be quite beautiful. There's a reason that older paintings of beautiful women didn't feature skinny models. Beauty is completely dependent on the ideals of a particular society, which change over time and differ between cultures. Women in some countries are obsessed with tanning and women in other countries walk around with umbrellas on sunny days and so on. We just happen to value being skinny right now, because in this day and age people have a harder time being slim (in a healthy way) because of our access to food.

    That is not some excuse for obesity, only a fact. That said, being obese and being a little overweight aren't the same thing and shouldn't be treated as such.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic View Post
    Please point out where I said that this was the only factor that contributes to the obesity problem, despite the fact that it comes after a paragraph where I gave a decent list of of other contributing factors.
    Your fat-sympathising tone was the giveaway. Any "corpurashunnz!!!" gets me worried because it's bound to be inherently biased.

    My point still stands that food companies make a profit off of selling you food and beauty/health companies make a profit off of promising to make you beautiful after eating all that food.
    Yes, that is the free market and capitalism for you. Again though, a bit of common sense and moderation go a long way.

    I don't think you understand the difference between something being common VS something being accepted (and thus not shamed). Just because there are a lot of overweight people doesn't somehow prove that those people aren't shamed over their weight. I would suggest actually learning what fat shaming is, because while you claim it's not that common, it's happened in this very thread.
    Well good. It's nowhere near common enough. Excuse the pun, but we should not be suger-coating these people's indulgences. As I say, I'm seeing a worrying number of articles which are starting to talk about "real women" and "curves" and normalising their excessive weight.

    Also I lived in Canada and currently live in Israel, and a much smaller percentage of people are overweight in both places compared to the US.
    Two of the greatest nations on earth, that's no surprise. Colour me envious.

    Correction: fat used to be quite beautiful.
    "Is and never will be". I'll grant you though that I may be wrong, we may once again learn to embrace poor health.

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    [QUOTE=Snorunt conservationist;15414349]
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic View Post

    Urban myth.
    Oh, are you referring to that smart-*** "it doesn't weigh more because a pund of this weighs the same as a pound of that" argument?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manafi's Dream View Post
    Try walking 3 miles to school everyday at 7 in the morning, or try riding a bike through some of the worst traffic you'll ever see in your life, and then tell me how reasonable that sounds.
    Shall we go back in history where this was common?

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    I think the "obesity epidemic" is more of a media-driven hate campaign than anything else. That's not to say that obesity doesn't pose problems. It certainly does, but the way people look at obesity and obese people conveys such negativity that it's actually counterproductive. There are so many problems with media-driven obesity information.

    Most obesity statistics go by BMI, which is not an all-around indicator of health. In fact, no measurement of body dimensions (BMI, WC, ABSI) is indicative of all-around health because health is so different for each individual and is dependent on more than simply body dimensions. You can be overweight or obese by BMI standards and yet still be in good health and most people know the limitations of BMI at least (not accounting for muscle mass, fitness level, nutrition, metabolism, and other factors). Body dimension analyses are tools, not the end-all-be-all of health that the media like to portray them as, especially when it comes to statistics. The media likes to use unfavorable portrayal of overweight individuals to perpetuate this idea that all obese people are lazy and have no self-control. While this may attribute to some of America's weight problem, it doesn't look at other factors outside of individual lifestyles.

    Nutrition and activity can and do have impacts on obesity and they're often the only factors discussed in the media. However, there are a number of other factors involved in obesity. Genetic predisposition, family health history, and metabolism all play roles. Environmental factors can play a large role in obesity as well- Advertising/food manufacturers, food availability, education, socioeconomic status, and exposure to environmental chemicals (especially in utero) all play a part. It's a mutlifaceted problem that doesn't have one quick fix. There have been studies that even link certain bacterial and viral infections to adipogenesis. Endocrine disrupting chemicals (of which we have an abundance in our society) have also been linked to obesity. Certain disease conditions (such as PCOS just to give one example) can also make it easy to gain weight and difficult to lose it but not making overall health impossible. Meaning, someone with a disease like PCOS can have all the indicators of good health (good BP, cholesterol levels, triglycerides, etc.) yet still be considered overweight. Studies have also found that metabolic health has a larger impact on cardiovascular health than weight alone.

    I don't have a problem with people being concerned with obesity and community health. However, I do have a problem with the way many people (and the media especially) go about it. Media-driven campaigns have often been more about body shaming than health promotion and disease prevention. People are often so quick to judge others on looks alone rather than any knowledge about that individual's health. You can't exactly look at someone and, going on your own personal perception of what is "fat" and not, decide if they are unhealthy, especially considering most of the people who do this are not medical professionals. Instead of promoting body-shaming and blaming obese people when you ("you" being mostly the media and those who blindly follow it's instruction rather than any kind of medical literature/study) don't know anything about their health or their life, we need to focus less on the individual and take a broader approach (er... no pun intended). People who are shamed for their body size are often more likely to be emotional eaters, avoid getting health screenings for fear of being judged, and are less likely to join physical activity groups to improve overall fitness. Focusing more on education (with actually studies), health promotion/disease prevention, testing to find the root of the problem for each individual, etc. would do much better in the way of combating obesity and it's related illnesses. It's just getting people to stop blaming and start educating that's the problem. It seems that in our society, if you're not fat-shaming, you're accused of "promoting" obesity, which to be honest is just a bullshit excuse to continue with discriminatory attitudes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    I think the "obesity epidemic" is more of a media-driven hate campaign than anything else. That's not to say that obesity doesn't pose problems. It certainly does, but the way people look at obesity and obese people conveys such negativity that it's actually counterproductive. There are so many problems with media-driven obesity information.

    Most obesity statistics go by BMI, which is not an all-around indicator of health. In fact, no measurement of body dimensions (BMI, WC, ABSI) is indicative of all-around health because health is so different for each individual and is dependent on more than simply body dimensions. You can be overweight or obese by BMI standards and yet still be in good health and most people know the limitations of BMI at least (not accounting for muscle mass, fitness level, nutrition, metabolism, and other factors). Body dimension analyses are tools, not the end-all-be-all of health that the media like to portray them as, especially when it comes to statistics. The media likes to use unfavorable portrayal of overweight individuals to perpetuate this idea that all obese people are lazy and have no self-control. While this may attribute to some of America's weight problem, it doesn't look at other factors outside of individual lifestyles.

    Nutrition and activity can and do have impacts on obesity and they're often the only factors discussed in the media. However, there are a number of other factors involved in obesity. Genetic predisposition, family health history, and metabolism all play roles. Environmental factors can play a large role in obesity as well- Advertising/food manufacturers, food availability, education, socioeconomic status, and exposure to environmental chemicals (especially in utero) all play a part. It's a mutlifaceted problem that doesn't have one quick fix. There have been studies that even link certain bacterial and viral infections to adipogenesis. Endocrine disrupting chemicals (of which we have an abundance in our society) have also been linked to obesity. Certain disease conditions (such as PCOS just to give one example) can also make it easy to gain weight and difficult to lose it but not making overall health impossible. Meaning, someone with a disease like PCOS can have all the indicators of good health (good BP, cholesterol levels, triglycerides, etc.) yet still be considered overweight. Studies have also found that metabolic health has a larger impact on cardiovascular health than weight alone.

    I don't have a problem with people being concerned with obesity and community health. However, I do have a problem with the way many people (and the media especially) go about it. Media-driven campaigns have often been more about body shaming than health promotion and disease prevention. People are often so quick to judge others on looks alone rather than any knowledge about that individual's health. You can't exactly look at someone and, going on your own personal perception of what is "fat" and not, decide if they are unhealthy, especially considering most of the people who do this are not medical professionals. Instead of promoting body-shaming and blaming obese people when you ("you" being mostly the media and those who blindly follow it's instruction rather than any kind of medical literature/study) don't know anything about their health or their life, we need to focus less on the individual and take a broader approach (er... no pun intended). People who are shamed for their body size are often more likely to be emotional eaters, avoid getting health screenings for fear of being judged, and are less likely to join physical activity groups to improve overall fitness. Focusing more on education (with actually studies), health promotion/disease prevention, testing to find the root of the problem for each individual, etc. would do much better in the way of combating obesity and it's related illnesses. It's just getting people to stop blaming and start educating that's the problem. It seems that in our society, if you're not fat-shaming, you're accused of "promoting" obesity, which to be honest is just a bullshit excuse to continue with discriminatory attitudes.
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    That reminds me of a segment on saw on HLN about a fat acceptance group and they were arguing back and forth with a health expert (who was thin and beautiful by the way) and I wanted to say "not everyone needs to be a size two to be healthy". I mean there are some people who are genuinely happy with being overweight and I applaud them for that because let's face it, with todays media and culture, not alot of us are happy with the way we look, especially if we get treated like **** because of it. I know that health is important but please do not force it on the public. If people want to eat until they go into a diabetic coma, then let them. Like smoking and drinking all we can do is educate people on the subject.

    EDIT: now that we are on the subject of obesity, what about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUOpqd0rQSo
    Last edited by はるひ; 1st November 2012 at 2:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    That reminds me of a segment on saw on HLN about a fat acceptance group and they were arguing back and forth with a health expert (who was thin and beautiful by the way) and I wanted to say "not everyone needs to be a size two to be healthy". I mean there are some people who are genuinely happy with being overweight and I applaud them for that because let's face it, with todays media and culture, not alot of us are happy with the way we look, especially if we get treated like **** because of it. I know that health is important but please do not force it on the public. If people want to eat until they go into a diabetic coma, then let them. Like smoking and drinking all we can do is educate people on the subject.
    I think the problem with the bolded statement is that it still perpetuates this idea that people of a certain body size are lazy and just don't care about their health. Obesity is a disease, one which has various etiologies that need to be considered on an individual basis. The idea that all we can do is educate is also a bit off and a bit of a cop-out really, especially when most people's ideas of "education" on obesity equates to "Put down the fork, fatty, and go for a run!" which doesn't help at all. While it could be argued that some people are motivated by negative reactions from people, studies show that body-shaming primarily causes decreased motivation to care about their health and want to improve it. Putting a stop to body-shaming may be the hardest part of this whole thing, but if it could happen, I think it could be a major step in the right direction when it comes to combating obesity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    I think the problem with the bolded statement is that it still perpetuates this idea that people of a certain body size are lazy and just don't care about their health. Obesity is a disease, one which has various etiologies that need to be considered on an individual basis. The idea that all we can do is educate is also a bit off and a bit of a cop-out really, especially when most people's ideas of "education" on obesity equates to "Put down the fork, fatty, and go for a run!" which doesn't help at all. While it could be argued that some people are motivated by negative reactions from people, studies show that body-shaming primarily causes decreased motivation to care about their health and want to improve it. Putting a stop to body-shaming may be the hardest part of this whole thing, but if it could happen, I think it could be a major step in the right direction when it comes to combating obesity.
    No I was saying that if people want to do something no one should force them not to. I wasn't saying that anyone was lazy. I do want to say that yeah some people are motivated by negative reactions from people. Like from my experience, I've kinda been motivated by negative reactions to my appearance. And now, I've noticed that ever since I lost the majority of the weight, people in real life are actually.... nicer to me. Guys are actually looking at me and I feel confident. I'm not saying negativity is the key to motivation but when you think about it... it helps for a few cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    No I was saying that if people want to do something no one should force them not to. I wasn't saying that anyone was lazy. I do want to say that yeah some people are motivated by negative reactions from people. Like from my experience, I've kinda been motivated by negative reactions to my appearance. And now, I've noticed that ever since I lost the majority of the weight, people in real life are actually.... nicer to me. Guys are actually looking at me and I feel confident. I'm not saying negativity is the key to motivation but when you think about it... it helps for a few cases.
    No one can force a particular health decision on anyone, that's true. But saying that in a thread like this runs the risk of getting the response that obesity is a major healthcare cost.

    The fact that negativity helps in a few cases doesn't mean it should be the overall tactic for combating obesity. The research suggests the opposite for most people. Focusing more on weight rather than overall health is a big problem in and of itself considering it perpetuates eating disorders, crash diets, and the like. It's great to make healthier choices and feel confidant and while I would personally consider other people's criticism to not be the best motivation, this thread isn't about that so I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself. I had an opposite experience- I was completely unhappy when trying to change myself to please others. It wasn't until I gained confidence in myself and then decided to make better lifestyle choices for me that I saw any lasting progress. But anecdotal evidence isn't really the source for something like this.

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    my best friend (mentioned above)
    is very big but he is very active and...tries...to eat healthy but i eat no better than him and i' about half his size...so i think that he has a thyroid problem, so maybe it is something that he cant control, but still people look at him weird and insult him. it made me so mad one time that i almost punched the guy in the face! and it doesnt help that i am dangerously underweight (which is about as bad btw) and people think i am the superior one.
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    I'd like to reference the mighty sumo wrestlers of japan. They eat a very large amount of healthy foods and still live happy and respectable lifes.
    Though in western culture, because theirs a type of "human graph" trying to be implicated onto all of society that which isn't the norm is portrayed
    as wrong or disgraceful.

    I think the problem isnt obesity i think the problem is the view that people take on obesity.
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    Pretty much everything Pesky Persian said. I hope more posts in this thread will be similar.

    Obesity is an...interesting topic, especially for non-Americans. It's the country with the highest obesity ratings - most other countries aren't anywhere close to it, and a huge part of it is simply the culture, especially with regards to food. Not only is unhealthy food cheap and plentiful, but actual eating habits tend to be pretty atrocious. A huge part of eating healthy isn't just about eating healthy foods, but it's also about one's relationship with food. Controlling how often we eat, how big our portions are, why we eat and so on are vital to eating healthy, but a lot of people simply aren't aware of that. And unfortunately, someone without that knowledge can pass on those unhealthy habits to others, mainly family. Other countries simply tend to have a different relationship with food.

    I also want to emphasize the idiocy of the BMI scale. Not only was it never actually intended to measure health, but it focuses on all the wrong data. For instance, because it calculates based on weight alone, it doesn't take into account that muscles weighs more than fat, so you can get perfectly healthy athletes who are "obese" according to the BMI scale. There are far better indicators of health.

    Lastly, this is just an observation, but has anyone noticed the make-you-fat-make-you-lose-fat culture? Food corporations want as much of their products consumed as possible. They spend ridiculous amounts of money to convince people to eat. But those people live within a culture that shames fat. So you have beauty and health companies who swear they'll help eliminate that fat, because to them, far =/= beautiful. It's much more profitable for such companies to make you feel awful about yourself so you'll buy their products, and who is it easy to make feel awful about themselves? Fat people.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    I know that health is important but please do not force it on the public. If people want to eat until they go into a diabetic coma, then let them. Like smoking and drinking all we can do is educate people on the subject.
    It is actually one of the moral duties of doctors to ensure patients are in the best possible health. No doctor wants their patient to "eat until they go into a coma" - it's irresponsible on both their parts. And there are consequences to eating in excess without any consideration. (After all, who wants to pay hospital bills or buy a wheelchair on an extra seat on a plane?)

    Also, your drinking and smoking analogies make me uncomfortable. Of course people can do what they want, but doing either of those in excess is dangerous not only for the individual, but also for others. But that's a whole other story.


    ~Psychic

  25. #25

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    I'm looking at an issue of Time from 2011 and right here its telling me that 67% of the US population is overweight or obese, and that 17% of that includes people aged between 6 and 19 years old. Yeah its a problem, but idk what could be done about it in the US. Of course education and encouragement is necessary to say the least.
    Last edited by Cosmical El Amarna; 2nd November 2012 at 6:21 AM.
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