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Thread: Dub Switch Fiasco for English Dub Pokemon

  1. #1
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    Default Dub Switch Fiasco for English Dub Pokemon

    Hey there guys!

    Wanted to make a thread to ask about something I feel someone may be able to explain but I can't understand for some reason and was hoping someone could explain this to me. If anyone finds this offensive, feel free to take it down. I'm just absolutely confused by this whole thing and would like someone who has an idea of what they think might explain the whole thing.

    Now, personally, I'm absolutely shocked TPCi has been so easily ready to bring back 4Kids VAs that played minor roles, yet has this never-ending vendetta with certain VAs who are literally right around the corner if they so choose to let them come back. Really, it's an even bigger slap in the face than firing everyone back at the end of Season 8, only to the fans. If you're going to bring back voice actors, why not the ones people actually want to see return altogether? *sigh* I wonder if and when they'll cut the crap and let Veronica, Eric, and others like Amy return who've all said they're more than willing to return given the opportunity to do so. I actually hate DuArt more than TAJ for this reason at this point. Will it never occur, possibly after Season 16 when both dubs will have run for the same amount of time (at that point, if they don't let them return, I'll confirm for myself the switch was a horrible move and that we all graciously allowed the English dub to get worse, and it was a backstabbing decision that at S16's point, should be rectified)? At that point, we'll have more or less equal time periods for both dub casts, and they'll be no excuse for not wanting Taylor, Stuart, Birnbaum, Rannells, etc. back if they wish to do so. I'm assuming never based on TPCi's actions thus far. What a pity too, the English dub would be so much stronger if they were allowed to return.

    And it's not just that. Now they've clearly shown the ability to hire people from FUNimation like Tatum, Mignogna, Sabat, and Clark for one-shot roles (I'm assuming Stan will never play Oak like he should be under TPCi, sadly, and that his role as Cedric was a one-time thing at this point given TPCi's track record and how only two people regained roles so minor and so pointless it's like they never even happened-- I didn't even care whether Craig Blair kept his roles because he was my favorite VA from TPCi-- sure I prefer Ted and Mike but such a small gap between them in VA quality I didn't even notice those changes too well), but they can't let their former talent return? Might as well just give us the middle finger for hell's sake, TPCi/DuArt...

    Even stranger than this is that Lisa Ortiz and Tom Wayland, two VAs infamous for working for 4Kids, have been working on the dub since Season 11 at DuArt. Wayland has on record said he'd love to get the old main cast voice actors all back in the English dub playing some roles or another, but it's all up to TPCi. Ortiz has said nothing period on the whole ordeal. That leaves me so confused here.

    Finally, Lillis and Blaustein got to make a return. Lillis apparently because she was not so outspoken about the switch in 2006, and I could understand that. Now, here's the problem I see from TPCi. Blaustein, if you'll remember, was far worse than Taylor or Stuart or any of the others about the switch, and yet she got to return. My question is, with all this blatant ability to do so, why do TPCi and DuArt continue to intentionally make the English dub worse than it has to be and essentially screw many fans and especially Taylor and company over time and again? I mean, they clearly have the ability to get them back, and it's been 7 years now. Can't they just let bygones be bygones and give them a second chance like so many others? Hopefully, they prove me wrong and do let them return someday. It's very pathetic to see what they can do but aren't, though. Just another slap in the face like the dub switch to me.

    I'd rather just hear them tell us, if that's the case that they don't want them back, "We won't let them return because we don't want them to! None of you can do anything about it and never could!" or something along those lines. At least we'd know they just don't care and won't do so at any point. But to put this facade on for such a long time...it's ridiculous, really. The talent were in the same country when the switch occurred, even in the same location (NY), and they still switched to save money (excuse me? Don't you people rake in millions-billions per year Pokemon International? What obviously greedy jerks.). Now, as for why the VA switch occurred, I don't see an excuse for what occurred and why we were given only 2 months before the dub switch occurred on a different station. It was a hypocritical move and an easily avoidable one granted the circumstances.

    My problem with the dub at present really stems from TPCi's poor management decisions thus far and blatant refusal to fix the greatest problems with their dub, not its voice actors for the main characters (as much as I find them much too inferior to be in those roles and find the former cast simply far above what we have now). Now, this and the preceding paragraph are just my opinions, but I guess that's what I've seen from TPCi over the last seven years or so.

    The goal of this thread is not to discuss which cast you feel is superior for the dub, but why TPCi seems to refuse to let many members of the 4Kids English dub cast return to play any roles in the latter TPCi dub we have on now at present. Any explanations, ideas, or reasons as to why you feel TPCi has done this up until now, will let them return eventually, or will never let them return, that's what the goal of this thread is. Not to start dub wars or anything. I want to make this clear. No voice actor performance discussions or anything, just why you feel certain members of the original dub have not been allowed to return as of yet.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 4th November 2012 at 11:05 PM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

  2. #2
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    As far as I know, TPCi has in no way whatsoever a vendetta against any of the actors. That's merely a rumor that's unfortunately passed down by several people. Everything that happened in the past with the actors was an unfortunate and necessary side effect of dropping business with 4kids. Keep in mind that even today, the entire subject if full of mysteries and uncertainties simply because little to no word on the subject has been publicly disclosed by TPCi. The details of exactly why TPCi had issues with 4kids aren't concrete, but not unbelievable considering 4Kids has since been involved in fraudulent activity and has gone completely downhill. For the here and now, there is no concrete evidence suggesting they won't let them return to major roles, nor evidence suggesting they do or don't want to consider it. Sure, many people will argue about this and that and try to determine the "probability", but the real truth is nobody has facts straight from TPCi's mouth. Therefore the VA's regaining major roles can only be described as a possibility, nothing more nothing less, as evidenced by the few who are still in the business and gained minor roles. I hope that helps clear things up for you .
    I am the current leader of Save Our Voice Actors, a Pokemon fan group supporting the voice actors in the anime dubbed by 4Kids (seasons 1-8). Our goal is to provide The Pokemon Company international with encouraging feedback in support of returning the main cast members. If you're interested, please visit us at facebook.com/saveourvoiceactors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios* View Post
    As far as I know, TPCi has in no way whatsoever a vendetta against any of the actors. That's merely a rumor that's unfortunately passed down by several people. Everything that happened in the past with the actors was an unfortunate and necessary side effect of dropping business with 4kids. Keep in mind that even today, the entire subject if full of mysteries and uncertainties simply because little to no word on the subject has been publicly disclosed by TPCi. The details of exactly why TPCi had issues with 4kids aren't concrete, but not unbelievable considering 4Kids has since been involved in fraudulent activity and has gone completely downhill. For the here and now, there is no concrete evidence suggesting they won't let them return to major roles, nor evidence suggesting they do or don't want to consider it. Sure, many people will argue about this and that and try to determine the "probability", but the real truth is nobody has facts straight from TPCi's mouth. Therefore the VA's regaining major roles can only be described as a possibility, nothing more nothing less, as evidenced by the few who are still in the business and gained minor roles. I hope that helps clear things up for you .
    Thanks so much; it means a lot to hear the facts of the matter up until now. BlueLatios, that really helped clear up the whole situation! I also completely agree that 4Kids was actually quite a good dubber once, but they've gone completely downhill for some reason and now they're completely gone from anime dubbing due to Ch. 11 bankruptcy (though from what I've seen, they're going into other markets and venues now despite that-- no more anime at present for them, though).

    For what it's worth, I don't think 4Kids was nearly as bad as people made them seem. I did quite enjoy Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Ultimate Muscle! with them. I think they began to lose it with GX, personally.

    I guess TPCi has their reasons for what occurred and what they're doing now, but it's all so strange lol.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 5th November 2012 at 4:06 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    No problem. And just to add a closing note, its best to stay positive and non-judgmental no matter what your or others viewpoints are. It would be great if most people just took joy in future possibilities rather than putting each other down or focusing so much on the negatives of Pokemon anime. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many "banned" topics, eh mods?
    I am the current leader of Save Our Voice Actors, a Pokemon fan group supporting the voice actors in the anime dubbed by 4Kids (seasons 1-8). Our goal is to provide The Pokemon Company international with encouraging feedback in support of returning the main cast members. If you're interested, please visit us at facebook.com/saveourvoiceactors

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    I'm just curious as to what it is you expect to be discussed now?

    For one thing if by some 1% chance old voice actors are rehired, I severely doubt they would ever "redub" the 7 seasons and literally 400 or whatever episodes there are with the old voices reprising their roles.

    Do you know how much work it would be for Veronica Taylor to redub Ash's voice from Season 9-16? That's literally 400 something episodes!

    And secondly how would they sell it? DVD sets of the anime don't sell too well, and its not feasible to expect a redub to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    I'm just curious as to what it is you expect to be discussed now?

    For one thing if by some 1% chance old voice actors are rehired, I severely doubt they would ever "redub" the 7 seasons and literally 400 or whatever episodes there are with the old voices reprising their roles.

    Do you know how much work it would be for Veronica Taylor to redub Ash's voice from Season 9-16? That's literally 400 something episodes!

    And secondly how would they sell it? DVD sets of the anime don't sell too well, and its not feasible to expect a redub to happen.
    Realistically, you're right about the redubbing of all of that stuff, but it's not just Taylor I'm referring to in the discussion. I mean Stuart, Birnbaum, the whole lot of them. And not for redubbing, persay, just a chance back in the English dub like the other additional VAs. So like returning sometime after Season 16. Because by that time, each cast will have had equal chance to work on the dub. From there, I feel Taylor and the others should get a chance playing some roles (doesn't have to be Ash and company).

    Well, so long as you're discussing redubbing, I would say that's not feasible now. But what is, is getting them back in TPCi's dub at this point. I mean if Green, Schemmel, Hart, Lillis, and Blaustein could return along with so many others, I don't see why Taylor and others can't make their return someday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios* View Post
    No problem. And just to add a closing note, its best to stay positive and non-judgmental no matter what your or others viewpoints are. It would be great if most people just took joy in future possibilities rather than putting each other down or focusing so much on the negatives of Pokemon anime. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many "banned" topics, eh mods?
    True. Always gotta look on the positive side of things.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Just saying getting your VAs back would realistically mean firing the ones we have now as there is only so many people they can have on paychecks.

    Also we might get someone like you only they back the TPCi dub XD

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    At this point you might as well only be discussing about Veronica. Most of the older cast is gone now and Best Wishes is probably going to be the end for Team Rocket.

    Other than the brief appearances of Prof. Oak and Delia, pretty soon Ash will be the only older character with a prior 4kids voice left in the show. When the vast majority of original characters are long gone and probably won't appear much at all for however long the anime continues to go on for, there's not much point.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    At this point you might as well only be discussing about Veronica. Most of the older cast is gone now and Best Wishes is probably going to be the end for Team Rocket.

    Other than the brief appearances of Prof. Oak and Delia, pretty soon Ash will be the only older character with a prior 4kids voice left in the show. When the vast majority of original characters are long gone and probably won't appear much at all for however long the anime continues to go on for, there's not much point.
    You've got a point there. That I'll admit is probably true. But I think it's feasible given so many 4Kids VAs got the opportunity while they haven't. That just seems wrong, I guess. They want to return, so I think they should given that many of their counterparts are in the current dub, like as one-shot characters. For example, Rachael played Maylene in DP and Maddie Chatot in the PMD 2 Special. I'm saying Taylor, Stuart, et. al. should get to do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Just saying getting your VAs back would realistically mean firing the ones we have now as there is only so many people they can have on paychecks.

    Also we might get someone like you only they back the TPCi dub XD
    What I mean is, as characters of the day- you know, like Green and the others have been playing. See what I said on CyberCubed to what I'm referring to, so like what Lillis did playing Maylene, Maddie Chatot, etc. They keep saying they're up for it, so that's what makes it so...weird. What exactly is stopping TPCi from letting them work on the dub granted almost every other VA has gotten a chance excluding 6 (Taylor, Stuart, Birnbaum, Price, Rannells, Wyman)? It's really weird given 3 of said VAs say they'd love to return playing some role (not their main character alone) but for some reason TPCi won't let them. ???...
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 5th November 2012 at 5:15 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    So what exactly is the point of wanting old 4kids VA's to play minor characters like Gym leaders or such?

    Sure I liked it when Rachael Lilis played Maylene in DP, but it wasn't anything to throw a parade over. I thought, "Oh cool, Maylene sounds a little like Misty," and that was about it.

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    By getting involved in small roles, voice actors are able to showcase their experience and start building business relations with the current dubbing staff. The role itself might not be something to write home about, but its the simple act of getting involved with a major production that counts toward bigger future prospects. TPCi can always use a good pool of talent considering how many minor and major characters there are. Many of 4kids actors already have a solid performance record. Pokemon's about to dive into the sixth (can you believe it!?) generation. From a business standpoint, anything can happen with Pokemon at this point.
    I am the current leader of Save Our Voice Actors, a Pokemon fan group supporting the voice actors in the anime dubbed by 4Kids (seasons 1-8). Our goal is to provide The Pokemon Company international with encouraging feedback in support of returning the main cast members. If you're interested, please visit us at facebook.com/saveourvoiceactors

  12. #12
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    Pokemon is an evergreen franchise. The reason why its still going is because it makes an enormous amount of money from the games and the anime/manga are just off-shoots of it.

    Some of you need to realize Japanese franchises are different than American ones. In America they constantly reboot Batman, Spiderman, Ninja Turtles, etc. for new generations of kids. There are what...nearly 20 different incarnations of Batman out there now?

    Japanese franchises however don't do that. They tend to keep going with the same series and when they DO reboot something. it tends to have an entire new cast altogether.

  13. #13
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    Exactly, Pokemon's a Japanese franchise. Yet, Pokemon's never been exactly a true reboot, but often a pseudo-reboot nonetheless. It makes me wonder if all these companies are gonna realize the importance of clear continuity.
    I am the current leader of Save Our Voice Actors, a Pokemon fan group supporting the voice actors in the anime dubbed by 4Kids (seasons 1-8). Our goal is to provide The Pokemon Company international with encouraging feedback in support of returning the main cast members. If you're interested, please visit us at facebook.com/saveourvoiceactors

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios* View Post
    Exactly, Pokemon's a Japanese franchise. Yet, Pokemon's never been exactly a true reboot, but often a pseudo-reboot nonetheless. It makes me wonder if all these companies are gonna realize the importance of clear continuity.
    ^Exactly. Psuedo-reboot in the sense original characters are still used in latter episodes as opposed to truly starting anew with a new set of characters, a new purpose, and a new goal. Ash and Team Rocket are still around, so it's not really a reboot at present. ^

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios* View Post
    By getting involved in small roles, voice actors are able to showcase their experience and start building business relations with the current dubbing staff. The role itself might not be something to write home about, but its the simple act of getting involved with a major production that counts toward bigger future prospects. TPCi can always use a good pool of talent considering how many minor and major characters there are. Many of 4kids actors already have a solid performance record. Pokemon's about to dive into the sixth (can you believe it!?) generation. From a business standpoint, anything can happen with Pokemon at this point.
    And given in about 1 more year 4Kids and TPCi's dubs will reach the same amount of dub seasons, that is when they definitely should give all members of both dub casts equal opportunity to work on the anime. Taylor, Stuart, Birnbaum, and several others most definitely deserve the chance to play minor roles just like any of the various 4Kids VAs that got to return.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Pokemon is an evergreen franchise. The reason why its still going is because it makes an enormous amount of money from the games and the anime/manga are just off-shoots of it.

    Some of you need to realize Japanese franchises are different than American ones. In America they constantly reboot Batman, Spiderman, Ninja Turtles, etc. for new generations of kids. There are what...nearly 20 different incarnations of Batman out there now?

    Japanese franchises however don't do that. They tend to keep going with the same series and when they DO reboot something. it tends to have an entire new cast altogether.
    Exactly, but with all the evidence stacked in favor of no need of the dub switch or even blacklisting some of the former 4Kids talent (mostly the vital ones)...why did it happen and continues on?

    You have to take into account that those voices were around for a good 422 episodes and 8 movies, and soon the current cast will reach that amount in 1 years' time. Given once Season 16 starts and ends in about a year's time, what then will be the logic for even blacklisting some of the former crew? I fail to understand this logic, especially given Green, Schemmel, and others are back in the dub now playing so many minor roles. Given that the Japanese version has had absolutely no recasting of all the main roles, why should the dub be any different? I just don't see TPCi's reasoning for bringing back only the minor 4Kids additional voices, but not the ones that truly made the show "Pokemon" to so many people. This doesn't involve firing Sarah and the others from the roles they are playing, but it does it involve getting Taylor and others back on the show in some form.

    It's that the switch had to end on such a bitter note that really tears at me.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 11th November 2012 at 10:00 PM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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