Why is it ALWAYS about speed?

[Zachmac]

As a friend of mine (Who to my knowledge is much better at this then I will ever be) once said, battling is 30% strategy and 70% luck. There is no singular defined way on how you should play the game. Speed most certainly is a factor, there's no doubt about that, but due to the highly subjective nature of the system, it all comes down to luck. There is a feasible counter to mostly everything, no matter how many Choice Scarved men you throw at them.

More like 70% strategy and 30% luck.

Yes, luck can easily turn the tide of the battle, but it's undeniable that the more skilled player will win significantly more battles. Though how much luck can change things depends on how skilled two users are to each other.

[PokéMaster Forever]

The amount of luck involved in determining the outcome of a Pokémon battle is inversely proportional to the distance between the skill levels of the two trainers battling, and the amount by which the outcome of a Pokémon battle is determined by luck reaches 100% in a battle between two trainers of the exact same skill level.

[Zachmac]

The amount of luck involved in determining the outcome of a Pokémon battle is inversely proportional to the distance between the skill levels of the two trainers battling, and the amount by which the outcome of a Pokémon battle is determined by luck reaches 100% in a battle between two trainers of the exact same skill level.

Of course, 100% luck is completely theoretical, since someone could make a mistake in their thinking, make a silly move they usually wouldn't, and of course, there is no way to people will ever be on the exact same skill level to the exact extreme amount(besides Tate and Liza). Not to mention team matchups.

Though this is still a valid point, as I said here;

Though how much luck can change things depends on how skilled two users are to each other.

But you still gave a better explanation, even if I felt the need to correct it a little.

[PokéMaster Forever]

A person making a mistake in their thinking, a person making a silly move they normally wouldn't, and team matchups influencing the outcome of a battle are all examples of luck affecting the battle's outcome. My point was that if two people are of the exact same skill level, then the aforementioned factors, combined other forms of luck (such as predictions, critical hits, freezes, full paralysis, etc) are the only possible factors that could influence a battle's outcome, hence why battles become 100% luck-based at that point.

Also, it is certainly possible for two people to be "on the exact same skill level to the exact extreme amount." Whether or not there's ever been two individuals in existence whose skill levels are exactly the same "to the exact extreme amount," however, is an entirely different question. But the non-existence of such individuals does not refute what I have said in my previous post anyway.

[jesusfreak94]

Pokemon Trainer R is just saying what a lot of people have been saying for a long time: Pokemon is a luck-based game for children.

Not really sure what it has to do with the importance of speed, but hey, the point still stands.

[Dragonicwari]

Of course, 100% luck is completely theoretical, since someone could make a mistake in their thinking, make a silly move they usually wouldn't, and of course, there is no way to people will ever be on the exact same skill level to the exact extreme amount(besides Tate and Liza). Not to mention team matchups.

Though this is still a valid point, as I said here; But you still gave a better explanation, even if I felt the need to correct it a little.

Obviously you never saw Thedarklord and I battle (before we both left the meta/I rejoined), whoever won was the person with the most hax. Also, the amount of hax can have no significance compared to the importance of it. Ex; Gastrodon walls my entire team but I get a grit on the switch in that puts him in a zone where I can easily ko him vs my opponent getting 6 iron head flinches in a row against my physically defensive heatran. In one instance there was very little hax but it was incredibly important but the other there was a ton of hax that wasn't important.

I think the importance of speed has been discussed, but did anyone explain trick room to this guy?

[PokéMaster Forever]

Pokemon Trainer R is just saying what a lot of people have been saying for a long time: Pokemon is a luck-based game for children.

Not really sure what it has to do with the importance of speed, but hey, the point still stands.

I didn't know that gambling was for children...

Anyway, my first post on this page was just addressing what Zachmac said in his post directly above that, but you could say that what I said ties in with the importance of Speed due to the fact that Speed-ties, which are essentially coin flips, are also one of the many entirely luck-based factors that often heavily influence the outcome of a battle.

[Zerogamer]

Let's get the point in pokemon people love to just hit harder and faster because of this some pokemon get over looked . As for trick room great move just some people try over do their team with the move and places pokemon that are slow but can't take a hit . Take point the champion Ray had trick room user on his team and didn't see anybody else . To me it seems like on wifi people are using weather teams for the speed and for the easy ok

[Zerogamer]

Ps I love trick room and pokemon that are slow that take hits and throw around their power like metagross or torterra. This what I think people feel safe with a faster pokemon a slow one because their skill in the game is not up there yet .another reason you won't see trick room that much because some people look at it as a gimmicky move but people with skill see the worth in such a move. Oh if use trick room team they make the best counters to weather teams as speed boost they get is screw up and now are force to deal with a effect that is a game changing move.

[emilyshortcake]

Speed matters,plain and simple. Speed can easily determine who wins a battle. Especially if it hits fast AND hard.

[Jacobthepokemonfreak]

Basically that. All it took was a little speed to throw Blaziken from UU all the way to Ubers.

0_0

ok....

[Faeman]

speed plays a role in winning a battle but it has to be combined with a number of other factors in order to win. good resilience and strength in a team is what
i think is important. if you cant handle the heat your bound to fall apart and start making bad desicions

[Divine Retribution]

Luvdisc has excellent Speed, especially for NU. Would you ever use it?

On the other hand, let's look at... Gengar, one of only two Pokemon to have remained in OU since the 1st generation. Gengar sports two great stats; Speed and Sp. Atk. It has paper-thin defenses, only decent typing, and no real support viability over things like Dusclops and Jellicent. If he didn't have that great combination of Speed and offensive power, he'd be a lower tier Pokemon too, but his ability to KO threats before they can touch him makes him a top-tier threat. (That, and that damned SubDisable set...)

[OrbrunnerX]

Speed is the reason Tornadus-T is a suspect, the reason Shay-S is Uber, the reason Deo-S (duh) was banned... Yeah, kinda important.
Of course, if you don't like it, there's always TReuniclus.

By that logic, Magikarp should be pretty good, considering it outspeeds a fair number of Pokémon.

[sarcasm]It certainly is. I've swept entire teams using its almighty Flail.[/sarcasm]

[I Like Pie!]

Speed doesn't matter much if you don't have the stats to make use of it.

Electrode, Jumpluff, Persian, Purugly and so much more have good Speed stat, yet see little use in OU. Why is that? There's almost always something with better stats, yet slower, that can fill their roles very well.

About hitting hard and fast, it's just a playing style. If you don't want to get hit much, use something that can take hits!
Or you can just outspeed and hit hard(er). But that just makes thing go back to the fact that 'Speed rules' (it doesn't really).

[ala]

Going first is very important in ANY game, pokemon included. Now with Gen 5 out there are a ton of fast pokemon who are also very strong. The power creep is so high that it makes a lot more sense to use a fast pokemon with high attack rather than a slower pokemon with a slightly higher attack.

[floodz66]

Look at it like this, i had a Gliscor, he was EV trained in attack and speed. I played my friend, his pokemon were EV trained, and could one hit my Gliscor if they were to attack it using one of their many supper effective moves. However, none of his team was fast enough, so i destroyed his whole team with just my Gliscor. It doesn't matter how strong or what move sets you have, if you are not fast enough, that can spell your end. My Gliscor was the Acrobatics based one with sand veil, so i was able to one shot his tank, had he used one.

[tokyo/seven]

simply put, speed is a matter of life and death. its kill or be killed. if something threatening outspeeds you, you will die unless you switch.

I think its more that 5th gen metagame calls for a more offensive playstyle than other gens. Not that speed wasnt important before but I feel like in 5th gen with a lot of new really fast/powerful Pokemon you are kind of forced to adjust to it and in this case I guess adjusting led to a more fast paced offensive metagame that needs a lot more prediction skill instead of a slower metagame with a lot of stall and whatnot.

[shadowlord777]

you need to be fast or bulky, but remember speed is nothing if it can not take a hit look at ninjask it is the fastest pokemon there is after one turn of speed boost but it does nto have the life to attack with its reasonable Atk and STAB with a bug type move. That is why garchomp was in uber tier for a bit. It was to well balanced.that pokemon may never see below OU. but a pokemon needs reasonable health def and spd to be able it a real competitor.

[mcdanger]

while speed is important the power that backs up the speed is just as important, if not more. Ninjask has teh best speed next to deoxys speed, yet hes RU, as divine said luvdisc has good speed, but luvdisk sucks massive. Even with the constant need to outspeed our opponent, its more the power and the strategy you use. Tyrannitar doesnt need speed to beat latios, celebi doesnt need speed to beat keldeo. Even if your a slow bulk mon like conkeldurr, priority gives you an edge, as well as predicting a switch in.

and lol@jesusfreak