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Thread: Why is it ALWAYS about speed?

  1. #76
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    No one wants to get 1hkod by a faster opponent *glares at dragondance scrafty and terrakion*
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  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Speed is important because it's the only stat that, when calculated into the game, is completely black and white (pun intended). Either you attack first or you don't. Other stats are different since they affect damage on a percentage basis, and while one speed point can be the difference between life and death, one point in one of the other stats probably will not. Having tons of power means next to nothing if your opponent hits and kills you first, which is why Rampardos is in NU right now; it hits hard, but it has neither the speed to beat many offensive threats or the bulk to take hits from the faster ones.

    Not to mention that the POTW doesn't make that much of a deal about speed. Many Pokemon function perfectly fine even without much speed at all, such as Ferrothorn and Reuniclus. While speed on a defensive Pokemon is nice at times, it's usually going to be a priority on offensive Pokemon. If an offensive Pokemon has plenty of bulk, then it can usually function properly even without speed because it doesn't mind taking a hit all that much. Conkeldurr is actually a great example of this. However, if that Pokemon is fairly frail, then it needs to have a high speed stat to make sure it can kill off the opposition before they kill it. This is why Pokemon like Darmanitan are in lower tiers; their speed stats are just low enough to lose to a vast number of offensive Pokemon in the upper tiers, and they don't have great bulk to compensate.
    I am beginning to see the importance of speed tiers now. its a bit tricky since i'm used to thinking in terms of power and endurance but maybe now that is becoming a dated concept. Looking into speed maybe worth my while

  3. #78
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    If you absolutely hate lighting-fast monsters, then simply use a Trick Room team.

  4. #79
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    It's not always about "speed" I've faced some opponents and I could win with a solid defence and SP. Defence teams. A good Stall team can take out sweepers with passive attacks plus recovery.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonTrainerSilver View Post
    ^ It is exactly as he said. But if you want like most people you could slower pok'emon like skarmory,jellicent,regice,tyranitar etc. Because even though they are slow they pack a big punch. Really I could probably rant about this all say but I won't. Speed is good but it's not everything,enough said.
    Yeah skarm, jelly, and regice the offensive beasts. NO. Those things are OU because of their defenses not because they are bulky attackers. Slow offensive things would be conk, reuni, and stuff.

    Although speed is important, it is not everything. You need enough speed to outspeed the opponent but also have the stats to hit hard.
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    Because if you're not first you're last.

  7. #82
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    There are some exceptions: my Sturdy Gigalith, and my wonder guard pokemon, but my UU Alakazam is able to take down most Ubers like Tyranitar, Hydreigon, and Excadrill because of its speed. I am sure that speed isn't the ONLY factor in POTW. A pokemon that hits hard like Tyranitar, and Excadrill aren't exactly the fastest Pokemon in the world, but they can hang in there enough to pack a wallop. Even my Feraligtr has saved me on more than one occasion- although it can be slow. However, speed can be important- for frail okemopokemon such as Alakazam, Lucario, and Scizor- albeit power hitters, need to be able to unleash that power in order for any of that to be effective. A powerful pokemon is no good if it can easily be KO'd be a faster opponent first

    So speed isn't the ONLY deciding factor in POTW, but it sure helps.

    EDIT: Trick Room always helps for those who need their slow pokemon to hit quickly
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  8. #83
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    ^1. Alakazam is OU.
    2. Tyranitar and Hydreigon aren't Ubers.

    And yes, if you really hate choice scarfers and very fast Pokemon, then go ahead and make a Trick Room team.

  9. #84
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    Alakazam is UU as of the 5th Gen
    Tyranitar and hydreigon are pseudo-legendaries, thus being Ubers...
    『ポケモン不思議のダンジョン ~�� �グナゲートと∞迷宮(むげんだいめ� ��きゅう~』
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by giratina519 View Post
    Alakazam is UU as of the 5th Gen
    Tyranitar and hydreigon are pseudo-legendaries, thus being Ubers...
    Just because a Pokémon is a pseudo-legendary, it doesn't automatically make it in the Ubers tier.

    But yes, the vast majority of why Speed is critical in Pokémon has already been explained. If Pokémon were a game where Pokémon weren't able to pretty much always reduce a foe's HP to about 20% with the right choices (as in, if each Pokémon had ten times their current HP or something), then Speed would be much less important.





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  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by giratina519 View Post
    Alakazam is UU as of the 5th Gen
    Tyranitar and hydreigon are pseudo-legendaries, thus being Ubers...
    Neither of those statements are true.

    Alakazam is OU on both Smogon and Pokemon Online.

    There is nothing that states that Pseudo-Legendaries are automatically uber. Tyranitar is OU on both Smogon and Pokemon Online. Hydreigon is OU on Smogon and Pokemon Online (actually I think he might be BL on the latter...).

    Pseudo-legendaries may be usable in ubers but that is not their native tier. In fact, as of Gen 5, all Pseudo-Legendaries are OU.

    But yeah. Speed isn't everything, but it's certainly helpful. Bulk and Power have to be taken into account as well. Ferrothorn's one of the most commonly used Pokemon in OU, and it's one of the slowest things in existence.

    But this point has already been hammered in pretty well.
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  12. #87
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    It is always about speed because you want to outspeed threats in the tier you play in.
    Unless, you are running TR.
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  13. #88
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    It's always about speed when you want a bulky pokemon to outspeed another bulky pokemon or a sweeper to outspeed a sweeper. (Obviously not always because other factors play into this like Dragonite's Multi-scales.)

  14. #89
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    I think it's better that the Pokemon you like are in lower tiers.
    I don't really go according to tiers, but since the majority of the people do, it means that you can use your favorite Pokemon in almost any match (if your opponent only plays by tiers).

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  15. #90
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    People should really stop bumping this pointless argument thread.


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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Because if you're not first you're last.
    Wow, that was deep...

    IMO, Speed is important, but not as important as PS. One skilled guy can win a Fast Offensive Team w/ a Stall Team. Of course, Speed matters A LOT in late game, but... Ferrothorn, Forrestres, Ammonguss, lots of bulk Pokémons are outta there, shining. So, Speed it's important, but is not all.



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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Because if you're not first you're last.
    Probably the most appropriate use of a Talladega Nights quote I have ever seen.

  18. #93
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    Pokémon was never a game where stall was supposed to thrive. Even in Generation 2, considered the stalling era, there was no such thing as a perfect stall team- and as such are the consequences that speed is very important, and probably the most important stat in the game. Throughout the generations, offense has become stronger; with new threats rising, old Pokémon grabbing more coverage moves throughout the generations, Life Orb, Choice Band and Choice Specs being released and so forth.

  19. #94
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    From what I know about speed issues, as a frequent Doubles battler, Trick Room play style dominates the doubles realm.

    Personally, In a Doubles Trick room field, you'll only need about 2 or 3 Fast hitters to back you up. But as lead in the Doubles format, there are ways where speed is important or pointless:

    1. Lead with Your Trick roomer and A Very fast Attacker (Assault Roomer). Let's say -for an example scenario- I lead with Reuniclus and Cinccino against Tornadus-I and Politoed. Usually, from my experience, for a trick roomer to pull it off, it's doing a Protect Roomer strategy. But on this example, I used my scarf Cinccino to defeat Tornadus who's setting up Tailwind. Though my normal type was taken down, With Tornadus gone, my Reuniclus got rick room in the best moment for my core of Slow and Bulky offense to wreck its opponents. This Assault Room tactic in doubles is a decent example where speed to take out a dangerous threat matter.

    2. Lead with Two slowpokes [not the pokemon] with one of them holding trick room (Bunker Roomer). This is already an obvious trick in doubles of course. For an example, let's say Stall offense. I have a Shuckle and Cresselia facing my opponent's Ninetales and Charizard. One way to play is for shucky to protect until trick room is set up. The other way is to let shucky use Power Shift (?) with sturdy as let's say, Charizard used Fire Blast on Shuckle and lives a critical hit. Once Cress got the trick room up, Shuckle goes for a Rock Slide sweep. This Bunker Room style is a case where speed does not matter.
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jireh the provider View Post

    2. Lead with Two slowpokes [not the pokemon] with one of them holding trick room (Bunker Roomer). This is already an obvious trick in doubles of course. For an example, let's say Stall offense. I have a Shuckle and Cresselia facing my opponent's Ninetales and Charizard. One way to play is for shucky to protect until trick room is set up. The other way is to let shucky use Power Shift (?) with sturdy as let's say, Charizard used Fire Blast on Shuckle and lives a critical hit. Once Cress got the trick room up, Shuckle goes for a Rock Slide sweep. This Bunker Room style is a case where speed does not matter.
    Expanding on that, I find an Azelf - Cofagrigus duo is an interesting way to open a Trick Room team. Azelf outspeeds most threats and packs a powerful Explosion (that obviously doesn't hurt Cofagrigus) that lets you potentially blow up two opponents at once while Cofagrigus sets up Trick Room. Unfortunately, Azelf is pretty predictable and everything and its mother carries Protect in VGC.


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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    Expanding on that, I find an Azelf - Cofagrigus duo is an interesting way to open a Trick Room team. Azelf outspeeds most threats and packs a powerful Explosion (that obviously doesn't hurt Cofagrigus) that lets you potentially blow up two opponents at once while Cofagrigus sets up Trick Room. Unfortunately, Azelf is pretty predictable and everything and its mother carries Protect in VGC.
    That sort of lead is somewhat similar to my Assault roomer strategy. Fast Hitter with Bulky Trick roomer. But yes, VGC becomes a very diffrent case due to the Protect Syndrome.

    My two advises cling on to the 6 pokes doubles format. But the speed implication still applies in the VGC format too.
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  22. #97
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    If you hit first, you have the advantage. Like if it's Jirachi vs Jirachi, you could use Thunder Wave first, and stop it from crippling your team as easily. Or it gets the first Thunder Wave and your team is doomes ;p

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    If you hit first, you have the advantage. Like if it's Jirachi vs Jirachi, you could use Thunder Wave first, and stop it from crippling your team as easily. Or it gets the first Thunder Wave and your team is doomes ;p
    or you both end up thunder waving each other...
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  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    If you hit first, you have the advantage. Like if it's Jirachi vs Jirachi, you could use Thunder Wave first, and stop it from crippling your team as easily. Or it gets the first Thunder Wave and your team is doomes ;p
    Quote Originally Posted by IAintObeezy View Post
    or you both end up thunder waving each other...
    Another way to Imply a good case scenario would be a battle whoever get the status of paralysis first. Let us say its Jirachi's Serene body slam vs Ho-oh's 50% burning Sacred fire. Or Kyogre's Thunder vs Palkia's thunder.

    Better yet, the best example would be a battle with 2 Serene Gracers. Who gets the secondary effect first?
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  25. #100
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    Most of these speed/attack pokes are glass cannons, without setup a few good walls can take a hit or two and knock them out in response. Like Sizor Vs Weezing, Even with one sword dance off Weezing can take nearly 2-3 hits from sizors priority/normal attack moves and retaliate with a 4x flamethrower.
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