It's not THAT Bad

[Bullkid]

From my limimited perspective, Shadow the Hegehog is an attempt to mash up Ratchet and Clank with Sonic. The main problem with the game is that the speed based platforming and weapon focused combat don't mesh well. You need to stop running to kill the enemies, which kind of kills the pacing of the platforming. I don't think the game is terrible, but I can easily see why it has limited appeal.

Actually, the weapon based combat wasn't very bad. The guns locked on to nearby enemies and took them out in a couple of shots. It really didn't kill the pacing for me as I was only fighting the enemies for a brief moment.

[Fearless123]

Neopets -it can be quite addictive.

[briguin]

Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2.
Yes, it's story could have been better, and yes, the only lightsaber duel in the game (vs Vader) wasn't that good, but everything else was good. Heck, for once a wii game had great graphics.

[Jb]

I fail to see how you think I'm trolling at all. I like Shadow and 06 better than the Adventure games because at least those two are trying to be innovative in a positive way. Shadow does have some questionable design choices, yes, but nothing that's absolutely game breaking. 06 is a glitchy mess and kind of all over the place, but at least it does better than the Adventure games at trying to be a fast paced platformer which is what a Sonic game should be almost 100% of the time.

Well, first you say that the Adventure series did more harm than good to the series. Even when the majority of people that played them think they were a step in the right direction as far as 3D goes. Then you say Shadow the Hedgehog could have worked while saying that it did nothing worst than what the Adventures did. Then you say Sonic 06 was a better attempt at an Adventure formula than the originals themselves.

So let me get this straight. Controlling three different hedgehogs, two of which weren't fast and the third which was barley fast is better? Using psychic energy and guns and 4-wheelers are more Sonic-ish than exploring wide open area(while still being fast) looking for plot devices that have been established since the first few games? You still move faster in the shooting stages than anyone does in Sonic 06. I'll admit that I'd rather have the shooting stages be Eggman only so Tails can race Sonic or w/e but it wasn't to terrible.

Sonic 06 was not a better attempt. It could have been a good game but it wasn't. Neither is Shadow the Hedgehog with it's billion of endings and fail attempt at making a edgy dark character.

[Zazie]

Actually, the weapon based combat wasn't very bad. The guns locked on to nearby enemies and took them out in a couple of shots. It really didn't kill the pacing for me as I was only fighting the enemies for a brief moment.

Well I am only speaking from watching my brother play. Maybe I will try out the game myself.


On a note related to this thread, I never understood why people care so much about sorting games into piles based on some sort of objective quality. I can understand needing video game reviews to make sure you don't buy something disspointing, but people get into very heated debates about what games you are and aren't supposed to like/play/buy. It seems a little excessive.

[Bolt the Cat]

Well, first you say that the Adventure series did more harm than good to the series. Even when the majority of people that played them think they were a step in the right direction as far as 3D goes. Then you say Shadow the Hedgehog could have worked while saying that it did nothing worst than what the Adventures did. Then you say Sonic 06 was a better attempt at an Adventure formula than the originals themselves.

So let me get this straight. Controlling three different hedgehogs, two of which weren't fast and the third which was barley fast is better? Using psychic energy and guns and 4-wheelers are more Sonic-ish than exploring wide open area(while still being fast) looking for plot devices that have been established since the first few games? You still move faster in the shooting stages than anyone does in Sonic 06. I'll admit that I'd rather have the shooting stages be Eggman only so Tails can race Sonic or w/e but it wasn't to terrible.

Sonic 06 was not a better attempt. It could have been a good game but it wasn't. Neither is Shadow the Hedgehog with it's billion of endings and fail attempt at making a edgy dark character.

You're exaggerating most of the characters' speed (or lack thereof) in 06. It's only really slightly slower, and the only character that really has an issue with speed is Silver. At any rate, at least the gameplay is consistent in 06. In SA1 and SA2 it's all over the place. Especially in SA2 where you're constantly switching gameplay styles throughout the game when all you want to do is play the speed stages, it's extremely pace breaking.

[Jb]

Consistent gameplay doesn't matter when the gameplay is shitty.

[Zibdas]

Well, first you say that the Adventure series did more harm than good to the series. Even when the majority of people that played them think they were a step in the right direction as far as 3D goes. Then you say Shadow the Hedgehog could have worked while saying that it did nothing worst than what the Adventures did. Then you say Sonic 06 was a better attempt at an Adventure formula than the originals themselves.

So let me get this straight. Controlling three different hedgehogs, two of which weren't fast and the third which was barley fast is better? Using psychic energy and guns and 4-wheelers are more Sonic-ish than exploring wide open area(while still being fast) looking for plot devices that have been established since the first few games? You still move faster in the shooting stages than anyone does in Sonic 06. I'll admit that I'd rather have the shooting stages be Eggman only so Tails can race Sonic or w/e but it wasn't to terrible.

Sonic 06 was not a better attempt. It could have been a good game but it wasn't. Neither is Shadow the Hedgehog with it's billion of endings and fail attempt at making a edgy dark character.

I thought Sonic 06 was so fast they couldn't keep up with the character half the time, which was another flaw.

[Bolt the Cat]

Consistent gameplay doesn't matter when the gameplay is shitty.

It's not shitty gameplay, though. Eithe way, I'd rather have mediocre gameplay the whole game then slightly less mediocre gameplay 1/3 of the time and shitty gameplay 2/3 of the time.

[Bullkid]

It's not shitty gameplay, though.

>Likes falling into pits because of Sonic's stiff and awkward controls and faling over when simply running into anything, including poeple and checkpoints
>Likes Tails' poor flying controls and his bad attacking method
>Likes getting stuck on walls with Knuckles and Rouge
>Likes having to mash A like crazy just to take out one or two enemies out of the five or six that are located in the room with Shadow
>Likes running at a snail's pace and dealing witha very poor execution on what could have been a good playstyle with Silver
>Likes getting flipped over by anyting with Shadow's vehicle sections
>Likes the mach speed sections that have so many flaws that I don't even know where to begin
>Likes the snowboarding sections that also had very poor controls
>Likes fighitng enemies with an extremely slow hammer attack and having a double jump that completely messes up your momentum, making you fall in a pit with Amy

How do you live with yourself? Serious question.

Either way, I'd rather have mediocre gameplay the whole game then slightly less mediocre gameplay 1/3 of the time and shitty gameplay 2/3 of the time.

So, you'd prefer a game with no good parts at all over a game that has a few good parts? Are you ****ing serious?

[Bolt the Cat]

>Likes falling into pits because of Sonic's stiff and awkward controls and faling over when simply running into anything, including poeple and checkpoints

That almost never happens. And I love how you instantly assume that just because I don't think this game is bad that I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I don't "like" the game, I just find it less bad than the Adventure games.

>Likes Tails' poor flying controls and his bad attacking method

Poor flying controls are debatable, and there's only one time that the Dummy Rings are really that bad and that's in that one section of Aquatic Base with all of the enemies above that huge pit that you have to defeat to progress. But ideally, I would like to have Tail Whip in Tails' gameplay.

>Likes having to mash A like crazy just to take out one or two enemies out of the five or six that are located in the room with Shadow

Now this I actually do like in moderation, mashing buttons is fun.

>Likes running at a snail's pace and dealing with a very poor execution on what could have been a good playstyle with Silver

I enjoy it when I treat it like it's not a Sonic game, but I do agree that this could've been done slightly better. Although it's really only the running speed and the lack of a direct attack initially that needed work, other than that Silver's gameplay was fine.

>Likes getting flipped over by anyting with Shadow's vehicle sections

Again, doesn't happen as much as you think.

>Likes the mach speed sections that have so many flaws that I don't even know where to begin

The only time the mach speed sections are really bad is when they're cluttered, most notably Crisis City. Other than that they're not that bad.

>Likes fighitng enemies with an extremely slow hammer attack and having a double jump that completely messes up your momentum, making you fall in a pit with Amy.

I'll give you that Amy's was bad, but the good thing about Amy is that she's not playable for very long. At least it's not like SA1 and SA2 where the bad gameplay styles outnumber the good ones.

So, you'd prefer a game with no good parts at all over a game that has a few good parts? Are you ****ing serious?

It doesn't have "no good parts", though, you guys are exaggerating its flaws. It's a bit wonky, yes, but the gameplay isn't as bad as you guys claim it to be, it's mediocre at worst. And you guys are completely missing what I'm saying, I'm saying that it's better to have gameplay which is better on average (06) than having a game with one slightly better gameplay style and several others which are complete ****.

[Bullkid]

That almost never happens.

Again, doesn't happen as much as you think.

>Implying I didn't play the game and did not have this happen to me quite a lot

And hell, judging from playthroughs that I have seen, I am definitely not the only one.

And I love how you instantly assume that just because I don't think this game is bad that I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I don't "like" the game, I just find it less bad than the Adventure games.

Fine, "liking" was an exaggeration. But thinking this game's gameplay isn't bad is still among one of the worst opinions I have ever read in any forum ever. Possibly because you found less problems. If that was the case, I can accept that. But I ran into a lot of ridiculous crap, and due to that, this game is among one of the worst I played.

Poor flying controls are debatable, and there's only one time that the Dummy Rings are really that bad and that's in that one section of Aquatic Base with all of the enemies above that huge pit that you have to defeat to progress. But ideally, I would like to have Tail Whip in Tails' gameplay.

Tails pushes the player forward whenever he flies whether you want him to or not which feels rather unfomfortable and when he gets tired, he just drops. Back in other games, you had a chance to control where he could land, if there were places for him to land that he could reach while tired. In this game, nope.

Yeah, the Dummy Rings were that bad in that section. You know why? Because you got hit and then you got confused because all of the rings looked identical. Sure, you can only say it gets that bad in Aquatic Base, but what if the game is being played by someone who is not as skilled or just new to the series? This will happen constantly. If it only happened in one area for everyone, maybe this would be forgivable, but this can happen anywhere. Hell, remember the Dummy Rings from Sonic Heroes? Those looked different and you could tell which ones were real. Why isn't this the case here?

And this isn't the only problem. Another two problems are moments when you are attacking enemies and then the game starts slowing down because there are too many on the screen. And the other problem is the first person mode which is horrid because of the camera. You can never get it to aim at the direction you were facing when you activate it, and since the camera isn't very fast, the odds say you'll get hit while adjusting it to face the enemy you want to destroy.

Now this I actually do like in moderation, mashing buttons is fun.

I think you missed my point. You have to button mash just to kill one or two enemies out of the five or six that are usually in the room, therefore you are barely progressing. aAnd guess what, after that room, there's another room with enemies. It's fun when you're playing as Omega because he can hit multiple enemies at once, but this isn't the case with Shadow.

I enjoy it when I treat it like it's not a Sonic game, but I do agree that this could've been done slightly better. Although it's really only the running speed and the lack of a direct attack initially that needed work, other than that Silver's gameplay was fine.

I beg to differ. I found it extremely annoying due to having to constantly searching for boxes, getting hit when trying to stun enemies, the fact that if you wanted to glide from a location to another and you just killed an enemy, you had to wait until your meter recharged, making Silver's stages slower than they already are, having the items you grab bouncing off eachother if you were holding several of them(hell sometimes when you only have one item, the item will still completely miss the enemy) and the fact that Silver can barely catch any of the missiles that enemies shoot at him(Have fun fighting Egg Genesis).

And some other issues I have is the fact that he has to stun enemies to throw them and that he can't manipulate the items and enemies that he is controlling. I think his stages could've been faster and more fun if you only needed to stun the larger enemies and if you could manipulate the items and enemies you're holding. Even if it ended up being too easy, I wouldn't care. I prefer pathetically easy stages over slow and boring stages.

The only time the mach speed sections are really bad is when they're cluttered, most notably Crisis City. Other than that they're not that bad.

But they are. They have a lot of flaws, including how the game just expects you to press forward in a ramp after making you think pressing up and down would do nothing, how you can't change the direction when you jump, the fact that you can't jump when you get hit, meaning that hitting a wall is the same thing as an instant death. These three are flaws that **** up entire runs through levels, and these were present in every single one of these sections.

I'll give you that Amy's was bad, but the good thing about Amy is that she's not playable for very long. At least it's not like SA1 and SA2 where the bad gameplay styles outnumber the good ones.

Only 2 playstyles sucked in Adventure and they were Amy and Big(Knuckles was actually good in this game since the design in the stages he got was better than Adventure 2, since you had more open room and exploring the stages while looking for the shards felt more fun). In Adventure 2, the only playstyle that I think was bad was the hunting stages because they were hit and miss. The shooting stages were fun since you didn't have to walk through large pathways, therefore you didn't feel slow, you had platforming and the lock-on system was decent, and while Sonic and Shadow's stages were linear, they still felt fun because of their speed.

It doesn't have "no good parts", though, you guys are exaggerating its flaws. It's a bit wonky, yes, but the gameplay isn't as bad as you guys claim it to be, it's mediocre at worst.

We really aren't. Sure, you had some fun with it and you didn't seem to find any problems, but trust me, you are a part of a very small minority.

And you guys are completely missing what I'm saying, I'm saying that it's better to have gameplay which is better on average (06) than having a game with one slightly better gameplay style and several others which are complete ****.

It is, but the majority's experiences with this game did not go as well as yours, and the majority's experience with this game was completely shitty, therefore, at least in my opinion, 06 is anything but better on average.

[Bolt the Cat]

And the other problem is the first person mode which is horrid because of the camera. You can never get it to aim at the direction you were facing when you activate it, and since the camera isn't very fast, the odds say you'll get hit while adjusting it to face the enemy you want to destroy.

You never need to use first person view anyway (unless you want to use it in that Aquatic Base section).

But they are. They have a lot of flaws, including how the game just expects you to press forward in a ramp after making you think pressing up and down would do nothing, how you can't change the direction when you jump, the fact that you can't jump when you get hit, meaning that hitting a wall is the same thing as an instant death. These three are flaws that **** up entire runs through levels, and these were present in every single one of these sections.

Then don't jump. You don't need to jump that much in the mach speed sections anyway.

Only 2 playstyles sucked in Adventure and they were Amy and Big(Knuckles was actually good in this game since the design in the stages he got was better than Adventure 2, since you had more open room and exploring the stages while looking for the shards felt more fun). In Adventure 2, the only playstyle that I think was bad was the hunting stages because they were hit and miss. The shooting stages were fun since you didn't have to walk through large pathways, therefore you didn't feel slow, you had platforming and the lock-on system was decent, and while Sonic and Shadow's stages were linear, they still felt fun because of their speed.

A lot of these gameplay styles go against what Sonic games are supposed to be. Treasure hunting stages are too open ended and confusing, it's basically a game of "find the needle in the haystack" and defies the speed aspect of the gameplay. Mech shooting is too slow and clunky, you're literally moving at walking speed. 06 is slow, but it's not that slow, and most of 06's playstyles have a better mix of speed and platforming elements.

We really aren't. Sure, you had some fun with it and you didn't seem to find any problems, but trust me, you are a part of a very small minority.

You obviously don't frequent Sonic forums, you'll find all kinds of people and a lot of different opinions out there.

[Zorocario]

Okami and/or Okamiden.

What? Okami was and still is an amazing video game.

[Bullkid]

You never need to use first person view anyway (unless you want to use it in that Aquatic Base section).

That doesn't make it go away.

Then don't jump. You don't need to jump that much in the mach speed sections anyway.

Yes, there are few sections where jumping is a must but in the mach speed sections, there is a lot of crap in my way, I would like having the option of being able jump to avoid some of it.

A lot of these gameplay styles go against what Sonic games are supposed to be. Treasure hunting stages are too open ended and confusing, it's basically a game of "find the needle in the haystack" and defies the speed aspect of the gameplay. Mech shooting is too slow and clunky, you're literally moving at walking speed. 06 is slow, but it's not that slow, and most of 06's playstyles have a better mix of speed and platforming elements.

No speed? I remember being able to go fast in the treasure hunting stages to get from a point to another. And guess what? That's what I did.

But like I said, the mechs feel faster because the pathways you cross aren't as long as the ones in 06. Due to the characters being slow and because of the longer pathways you have to cross, you feel slower than the mechs. And due to how slow the characters feel, you sense a lack of a speed aspect. How is 06 a speedy platformer if it's combining platforming with something that does not feel like it's there?

You obviously don't frequent Sonic forums, you'll find all kinds of people and a lot of different opinions out there.

So Sonic forums are the entire internet nowadays?

[LordLucario21]

Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2.
Yes, it's story could have been better, and yes, the only lightsaber duel in the game (vs Vader) wasn't that good, but everything else was good. Heck, for once a wii game had great graphics.

I totally agree with you on that. I liked it a lot better than FU1 for cutting out a lot of filler, but the problem was that it was too short, but being able to look like Admiral Akbar in cutscenes made it so worthwhile. XD I love that your costume choices carry over to the cutscenes.

[The Sandslasher]

Halo Wars. All of my friends hate it. Every one I know who played it hate it. I'm the only who played and said "that wasn't bad."

I agree LOL

[Haunter227]

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.

[LordLucario21]

Call of Duty 4. While the sequels got stale ( Especiallly MW3), this entry is actually really enjoyable. The story is interesting and at the time, it felt really fresh. (But what do I know? XD) The gameplay was fun, the multiplayer was addicting, and the graphics ( at the time) were great. And all of this is coming from a guy who usually hates FPS games ( except Halo)

[Ampy]

Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2.
Yes, it's story could have been better, and yes, the only lightsaber duel in the game (vs Vader) wasn't that good, but everything else was good. Heck, for once a wii game had great graphics.

Stop this. Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy/2 among others all look great.