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Thread: Uh Take Two...

  1. #1
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    Default Uh Take Two...

    I want to start getting into battling with my pokemon, I've spent almost all my time breeding pokemon so I figure that I should actually do something with them. My initial intention on coming here was to receive help in the creation of teams, only rating something on showcase seems sycophantic to me, but whatever. So here is a team I was thinking about with Rain Dance. タイプの中で水が一番好きだので「あまごい」を使いたかったよ~
    Drizzle + Swift Swim is banned, but that's totally OK. It just means that I can't use Kingdra along with Politoed, and that's not too bad.

    とにかく!



    @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    IV: 21/31/31/31/10/31
    EV: 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, - Atk)
    -
    Hydro Pump
    Ice Beam
    Focus Blast
    Surf


    This pokemon acts as easy set up for Rain Dance, while being able to simultaneously answer other openers like Ferrothorn, Infernape, Scizor, T-Tar and the likes. Ferrothorn will more than likely kill Politoed though... The STAB power from Drizzle also allows for easy check against common answers by using Hydro Pump.
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Salamence: 68.3% - 80.7%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Naive Salamence: 75.8% - 89.4%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Haxorus: 95.6% - 112.6%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Hydreigon: 63.1% - 74.5%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Rotom-W: 73.14% - 86.36%
    Hydro Pump vs. 252/252+ Deoxys-D: 63.5% - 75%

    Personally I have issues with using Hydro Pump and Surf in the same team, only providing more PP to STAB with, which isn't that bad I think but it still feels like a waste of an attack slot. I guess to start with I'd be mostly afraid of a DW Ninetails, a T-Tar coming in after I've fired off an Ice Beam or an Abomasnow... Also, my Politoed's Special Defense IV is a little on the low side, so I'm not particually safe with the idea of Solar Beams and Thunders being able to destroy my poor froggy. I'm also a little uncomfortable with Choice Specs as well, but I can't think anything better to use off the top of my head.



    @ Leftovers
    Ability: Multiscale
    IV: 26/31/30/3/31/31
    EV: 252 Atk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpAtk)
    -
    Dragon Dance
    Extreme Speed
    Waterfall
    Dragon Claw


    First off, I'm using Dragon Claw over Outrage because I don't like the idea of not being able to control my pokemon if I need a new move if my enemy switches. Multiscale makes sure that I am able to set up a Dragon Dance and begin sweeping with Rain + Waterfall. Even if an enemy moves faster than Dragonite for one move after a Dragon Dance, I'll hit with either Waterfall or STAB Dragon Claw and then move over priority with Extreme Speed. I decided to use this set over the more obvious choice of going with Special Attack and using Thunder and Hurricane because I feel this set allows Dragonite to not suddenly become unstable in case my Rain Dance is canceled out with other weather and Politoed happens to be KOed. However, the use of Rain Dance made me choose to use Waterfall over Fire Punch since fire power is weakened, this leaves Dragonite open to the terror of Genesect. I assume a switch in after Dragonite has set up Dragon Dance and has more than likely taken a hit, so an incoming Ice Beam would OHKO my poor Dragon while Dragonite isn't able to do much in retaliation. This makes me feel a little iffy about using it, since there seems to be an influx in Genesect users after ENG release of BW2.



    @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    IV: 20/18/12/31/31/31
    EV: 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    -
    Focus Blast
    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast
    Dark Pulse


    This is the most iffy member of the team I think. It shares weakness with Dragonite and only offers SpAtk STAB with Dragon and Dark while being able to Fire Blast. Again, I choose to use Fire Blast because I see being used in case the Rain goes away, optimally using the Sun against my enemy if they attempt to weather battle. I'd also use it to STAB against specific pokemon: Ferrothorn, Scizor and the likes where I can 4x + Expert Belt against them. This also means that using this pokemon is going to be rather uncommon. That and the low IV in Def makes Close Combat scary...



    @ Leftovers?
    Ability: Prankster
    IV: 31/8/31/30/31/8
    EV: 252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpDef
    Nature: Careful (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    -
    Taunt
    Will-o-Wisp
    Night Shade
    Recover


    Taunt is an important move in my opinion, so I think it is best used by a Sableye. (それとポケモンの中でヤミラミが一番好き) Also Sableye is capable of locking pokemon that are incapable of just destroying it from the get go. WoW is also very powerful, burning the enemy before they can kill of Sableye is very effective. That and Sableye will only only show up as a revenge Troller. Night Shade allows for consistant pokes that bypass over the use any actual stat that Sableye might have, so I decided that it's Atk and SpAtk stats were useless. That and Sableye is just fun to play with <3



    @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    IV: 31/30/31/30/31/31
    EV: 248 HP, 252 Def, 8 Spe
    Nature: Bold (+Spe, -Atk)
    -
    Scald
    Wish
    Rest
    Hidden Power


    While raining, I think that Vaporeon is almost immortal. It is also capable of tossing Wish either to revive Politoed or reset Dragonite. Burning though with scald has chance to burn pokemon that Sableye might not have had the chance to play against. While Hidden Power-Grass destroys heavy water types and annihilates Gastrodon, Quagsire and Swampert. I think that improvement wise, wishing could be done with for Ice Beam and Scald could be Hydro Pump if Leftovers becomes Water Gem. Vaporeon stat-wise is almost perfect, however the need to sacrifice 1 point for hidden power doesn't seem too bad a compramise (this thing took 3 days of breeding to create)



    @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flame Body
    IV: 31/31/12/31/31/22
    EV: 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    -
    Quiver Dance
    Hurricane
    Fiery Dance
    Bug Buzz


    More buring... set up with Quiver Dance and more to Hurricane which gets 100% accuracy in rain, while Bug Buzz and Fiery Dance hit STAB + Life Orb. Stealth Rocks and Stone Edge destroy my little buggy, but this one exists in team much like Hydreigon does in that it is to answer certain threats. Also, if a weather war happens I can abuse a sunny day. I think this pokemon could go with being rebreed, and giving it a V in speed to make it move a little faster to avoid being hit with Stone Edge a little better.

    ---------

    All in all this team seems only OK to me. I call this Rain Dance, but that move actually doesn't exist within my team. Instead I focus on being able to gain from having Rain Dance's effect while not being dependent upon always having it and being able to combat other weather effects by anticipating them. Sandstorm is more than likely going to use a T-Tar, which died in OHKO from Focus Blast from Hydreigon; Hail comes from Abomasnow and to my benefit makes Fire type no longer become weakened by rain and 4x super effect from Fire Blast on Hydreigon + Expert Belt or Fiery Dance from Volcarona + Life Orb; Sunny day actually benefits my team by boosting Volcarona and Hydreigon and allowing me to STAB against Ninetails and the likes with Dragonite who can be kept "immortal" with Ninetales until I can reestablish rain. I thought about using a Hidden Power-Fire Golduck to negate my own rain to hit against Ferrothorn, but that seems like a little much since I can just hit through rain with fire and still do damage in that my fire attackers are resistant to steel/grass STAB moves. Gastrodon dies to Vaporeon without, while most all other 'walls' are being bombarded by Hydro Pumps while Burns take effect. All while the little Troll Sableye is going to attempt to lock out a pokemon if it can. Also I thought about using a Steel type pokemon who could gain from the weakening of fire while being able to predict a possible sandstorm.

    I'd like some advice to possibly better abuse the Rain and possible substitutes to convert this team to a balanced team in OU; removing Politoed and Vaporeon and changing a few moves. Please help and thank you very much ^^

    本当にありがとう~

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogata View Post
    I want to start getting into battling with my pokemon, I've spent almost all my time breeding pokemon so I figure that I should actually do something with them. My initial intention on coming here was to receive help in the creation of teams, only rating something on showcase seems sycophantic to me, but whatever. So here is a team I was thinking about with Rain Dance. タイプの中で水が一番好きだので「あまごい」を使いたかったよ~
    Drizzle + Swift Swim is banned, but that's totally OK. It just means that I can't use Kingdra along with Politoed, and that's not too bad.

    とにかく!



    @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    IV: 21/31/31/31/10/31
    EV: 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, - Atk)
    -
    Hydro Pump
    Ice Beam
    Focus Blast
    Surf


    This pokemon acts as easy set up for Rain Dance, while being able to simultaneously answer other openers like Ferrothorn, Infernape, Scizor, T-Tar and the likes. Ferrothorn will more than likely kill Politoed though... The STAB power from Drizzle also allows for easy check against common answers by using Hydro Pump.
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Salamence: 68.3% - 80.7%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Naive Salamence: 75.8% - 89.4%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Haxorus: 95.6% - 112.6%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Hydreigon: 63.1% - 74.5%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Rotom-W: 73.14% - 86.36%
    Hydro Pump vs. 252/252+ Deoxys-D: 63.5% - 75%

    Personally I have issues with using Hydro Pump and Surf in the same team, only providing more PP to STAB with, which isn't that bad I think but it still feels like a waste of an attack slot. I guess to start with I'd be mostly afraid of a DW Ninetails, a T-Tar coming in after I've fired off an Ice Beam or an Abomasnow... Also, my Politoed's Special Defense IV is a little on the low side, so I'm not particually safe with the idea of Solar Beams and Thunders being able to destroy my poor froggy. I'm also a little uncomfortable with Choice Specs as well, but I can't think anything better to use off the top of my head.



    @ Leftovers
    Ability: Multiscale
    IV: 26/31/30/3/31/31
    EV: 252 Atk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpAtk)
    -
    Dragon Dance
    Extreme Speed
    Waterfall
    Dragon Claw


    First off, I'm using Dragon Claw over Outrage because I don't like the idea of not being able to control my pokemon if I need a new move if my enemy switches. Multiscale makes sure that I am able to set up a Dragon Dance and begin sweeping with Rain + Waterfall. Even if an enemy moves faster than Dragonite for one move after a Dragon Dance, I'll hit with either Waterfall or STAB Dragon Claw and then move over priority with Extreme Speed. I decided to use this set over the more obvious choice of going with Special Attack and using Thunder and Hurricane because I feel this set allows Dragonite to not suddenly become unstable in case my Rain Dance is canceled out with other weather and Politoed happens to be KOed. However, the use of Rain Dance made me choose to use Waterfall over Fire Punch since fire power is weakened, this leaves Dragonite open to the terror of Genesect. I assume a switch in after Dragonite has set up Dragon Dance and has more than likely taken a hit, so an incoming Ice Beam would OHKO my poor Dragon while Dragonite isn't able to do much in retaliation. This makes me feel a little iffy about using it, since there seems to be an influx in Genesect users after ENG release of BW2.



    @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    IV: 20/18/12/31/31/31
    EV: 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    -
    Focus Blast
    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast
    Dark Pulse


    This is the most iffy member of the team I think. It shares weakness with Dragonite and only offers SpAtk STAB with Dragon and Dark while being able to Fire Blast. Again, I choose to use Fire Blast because I see being used in case the Rain goes away, optimally using the Sun against my enemy if they attempt to weather battle. I'd also use it to STAB against specific pokemon: Ferrothorn, Scizor and the likes where I can 4x + Expert Belt against them. This also means that using this pokemon is going to be rather uncommon. That and the low IV in Def makes Close Combat scary...



    @ Leftovers?
    Ability: Prankster
    IV: 31/8/31/30/31/8
    EV: 252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpDef
    Nature: Careful (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    -
    Taunt
    Will-o-Wisp
    Night Shade
    Recover


    Taunt is an important move in my opinion, so I think it is best used by a Sableye. (それとポケモンの中でヤミラミが一番好き) Also Sableye is capable of locking pokemon that are incapable of just destroying it from the get go. WoW is also very powerful, burning the enemy before they can kill of Sableye is very effective. That and Sableye will only only show up as a revenge Troller. Night Shade allows for consistant pokes that bypass over the use any actual stat that Sableye might have, so I decided that it's Atk and SpAtk stats were useless. That and Sableye is just fun to play with <3



    @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    IV: 31/30/31/30/31/31
    EV: 248 HP, 252 Def, 8 Spe
    Nature: Bold (+Spe, -Atk)
    -
    Scald
    Wish
    Rest
    Hidden Power


    While raining, I think that Vaporeon is almost immortal. It is also capable of tossing Wish either to revive Politoed or reset Dragonite. Burning though with scald has chance to burn pokemon that Sableye might not have had the chance to play against. While Hidden Power-Grass destroys heavy water types and annihilates Gastrodon, Quagsire and Swampert. I think that improvement wise, wishing could be done with for Ice Beam and Scald could be Hydro Pump if Leftovers becomes Water Gem. Vaporeon stat-wise is almost perfect, however the need to sacrifice 1 point for hidden power doesn't seem too bad a compramise (this thing took 3 days of breeding to create)



    @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flame Body
    IV: 31/31/12/31/31/22
    EV: 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    -
    Quiver Dance
    Hurricane
    Fiery Dance
    Bug Buzz


    More buring... set up with Quiver Dance and more to Hurricane which gets 100% accuracy in rain, while Bug Buzz and Fiery Dance hit STAB + Life Orb. Stealth Rocks and Stone Edge destroy my little buggy, but this one exists in team much like Hydreigon does in that it is to answer certain threats. Also, if a weather war happens I can abuse a sunny day. I think this pokemon could go with being rebreed, and giving it a V in speed to make it move a little faster to avoid being hit with Stone Edge a little better.

    ---------

    All in all this team seems only OK to me. I call this Rain Dance, but that move actually doesn't exist within my team. Instead I focus on being able to gain from having Rain Dance's effect while not being dependent upon always having it and being able to combat other weather effects by anticipating them. Sandstorm is more than likely going to use a T-Tar, which died in OHKO from Focus Blast from Hydreigon; Hail comes from Abomasnow and to my benefit makes Fire type no longer become weakened by rain and 4x super effect from Fire Blast on Hydreigon + Expert Belt or Fiery Dance from Volcarona + Life Orb; Sunny day actually benefits my team by boosting Volcarona and Hydreigon and allowing me to STAB against Ninetails and the likes with Dragonite who can be kept "immortal" with Ninetales until I can reestablish rain. I thought about using a Hidden Power-Fire Golduck to negate my own rain to hit against Ferrothorn, but that seems like a little much since I can just hit through rain with fire and still do damage in that my fire attackers are resistant to steel/grass STAB moves. Gastrodon dies to Vaporeon without, while most all other 'walls' are being bombarded by Hydro Pumps while Burns take effect. All while the little Troll Sableye is going to attempt to lock out a pokemon if it can. Also I thought about using a Steel type pokemon who could gain from the weakening of fire while being able to predict a possible sandstorm.

    I'd like some advice to possibly better abuse the Rain and possible substitutes to convert this team to a balanced team in OU; removing Politoed and Vaporeon and changing a few moves. Please help and thank you very much ^^

    本当にありがとう~
    Finally, a rain team with some creativity.

    For one, Bold doesn't do what you say it does. Timid is the nature that raises Speed and lowers Attack. However, keep Bold. Bold lowers Attack and raises Defense, which is perfect for Vappy.

    Surf > Fire Blast on Hydreigon.

    Keep HP Grass on Vaporeon to slaughter Gastrodon, he's the number 1 answer to Rain teams.

    Volcarona counters Genesect pretty well, as at +1 I believe Fiery Dance OHKOs even in the rain. He needs two Quiver Dances to outspeed Scarfed Genesect, though.

    Other than that I don't see anything else wrong with this team.


    You can shoot my body full of holes but ya can't kill the spirit of Rock N' Roll, baby! \m/

  3. #3
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    Oh yea, Hydreigon learns Surf... XD
    I kinda like the idea of it being able to breath fire out of three heads though....

  4. #4
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    I would get rid of probably Surf on Politoed and add Toxic in case you need to. and it does help. Everything else looks good though.
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  5. #5
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    i'd really go offensive life orb on vaporeon, as the set is just amazing.

    another thing is to watch out for rocks. they decimate volc and dragonite. other than that, good job'

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by the3rdH0kage View Post
    I would get rid of probably Surf on Politoed and add Toxic in case you need to. and it does help. Everything else looks good though.
    Hmm... that doesn't seem too bad of a move. I guess that being able to poison pokemon that can't be burned would be nice... BUT in my mind pokemon that can't be burned = fire type, and if toxic on Politoed that means that there is currently rain going on unless the opponent used DW Ninetails or Charizard. Both of which happen to be very allergic to the STAB Hydro Pump that will come flying out of Toedy, that and I'm pretty sure that Hydro Pump has a higher turn priority than Toxic...

    So I like the idea of Toxic, but it just doesn't seem like it would be that helpful if it was on Politoed. I'd rather a Fire Pokemon die instantly from water than slowly from poison and lose a turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedarklord2155 View Post
    i'd really go offensive life orb on vaporeon, as the set is just amazing.

    another thing is to watch out for rocks. they decimate volc and dragonite. other than that, good job'
    That actually doesn't seem like a bad idea, I really didn't like of Vaporeon as an attacking pokemon. However I can see how Rain + Hydration + Rest + Life Orb could be scary... makes me want to switch out Scald for Hydro Pump to just destroy with a heavy STAB.

    As for rocks... I'm noticing my allergy to them is pretty bad. I lose Mothykins and Dragonite loses his turn to set up with Dragon Dance...

    Hmmm....

  7. #7
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    After a little bit of thought I've decided that I should deal with Stealth Rocks, Spikes and all those nasty entry hazards. That I like the idea of using Toxic along side being able to burn so I can always inflict a status condition on a pokemon... except for Heatran. So with that I've come up with two possible substitutions that might help and would like some input of which to choose and who I should trade out from the main team. Initially I thought that maybe Hydreigon could go, but I like the idea of being able to Focus Blast with it.... Anyway!

    Option #1


    @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Rain Dish
    EV: 252 HP, 240 Def, 16 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -
    Substitute
    Toxic
    Rapid Spin
    Scald


    Option #1 is the ability to use Rapid Spin to remove entry hazards and be able to toxic pokemon that I can't burn. Scald fits my subtheme of burning things with water. Rain Dish + Sludge makes Substitute usable over and over again. Letting me STAB + Rain with Scald...




    Option #2


    @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EV: 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Hydro Pump
    Thunder


    Option #2 acts more offensively than Option #1. Taking advantage of the rain by being able to deal large damage rather than add to its longevity. It can also Rapid Spin to remove entry hazards, which is the main thing I was wanting a pokemon to be able to do. Recover just lets Starmie not die so easily... The only I don't like with this one is that it's accuracy is trash in my opinion without the rain...




    Well that's what I came up with, so please continue to help. I'm a little torn about which on to use, and currently am leaning a little more on to Tentacruel...

    とにかくありがとう~!

  8. #8
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    With the tentacruel, i suggest toxic spikes over toxic, as then it gives your opponents a bit pressure when they switch out....
    Credit to Astral Shadow!

  9. #9
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    Hmm....
    But the spikes toxic effect happens when they move into play, which makes Sableye's game useless since it wouldn't be able to WoW on it's own to start a lock. Meaning that if I were to use it I'd have to switch in, get hit, and recover forever until the poison killed the enemy pokemon. Also auto poison from the spikes would make all the scalds useless unless opponent is running a way to cure poison and move around spikes...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogata View Post
    After a little bit of thought I've decided that I should deal with Stealth Rocks, Spikes and all those nasty entry hazards. That I like the idea of using Toxic along side being able to burn so I can always inflict a status condition on a pokemon... except for Heatran. So with that I've come up with two possible substitutions that might help and would like some input of which to choose and who I should trade out from the main team. Initially I thought that maybe Hydreigon could go, but I like the idea of being able to Focus Blast with it.... Anyway!

    Option #1


    @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Rain Dish
    EV: 252 HP, 240 Def, 16 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -
    Substitute
    Toxic
    Rapid Spin
    Scald


    Option #1 is the ability to use Rapid Spin to remove entry hazards and be able to toxic pokemon that I can't burn. Scald fits my subtheme of burning things with water. Rain Dish + Sludge makes Substitute usable over and over again. Letting me STAB + Rain with Scald...


    Option #2


    @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EV: 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef, 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Hydro Pump
    Thunder


    Option #2 acts more offensively than Option #1. Taking advantage of the rain by being able to deal large damage rather than add to its longevity. It can also Rapid Spin to remove entry hazards, which is the main thing I was wanting a pokemon to be able to do. Recover just lets Starmie not die so easily... The only I don't like with this one is that it's accuracy is trash in my opinion without the rain...




    Well that's what I came up with, so please continue to help. I'm a little torn about which on to use, and currently am leaning a little more on to Tentacruel...

    とにかくありがとう~!
    I'd say go bold on tentacruel if you are going to run defense then don't go for something that raises speed focus on HP and defense if running rain sludge just don't do timid it will ruin him, especially since tentacruel needs all the defense it can get the EV spreads are perfect in my opinion, also I'd say you have a pretty good team here



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  11. #11
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    Oh, that's a good idea.
    And thanks for the compliment on my team, I've been fiddling around with it recently in 3v3 and it's been fun.
    I think I'm going to try to make a Sunny Day team now though... this feels pretty done in my opinion. I ended up choosing Tencacruel over Starmie for a rapid spinner.

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