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Thread: BWS2-23: Ash Vs Kotetsu! Secret Weapon Hydreigon!! [FIRST POST]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle_007 View Post
    The complain is about the double standard of the fandom (¬_¬), everybody praises a Gible with almost zero battle experience beating a Shuckle AND a Dusknoir and have no problem with Ash deciding to use it against a trainer that HE KNOWS had a Darkrai, but, on the other hands, they despises the idea of an Oshawott with 3 gym battles being used ONCE against a Hydreigon that is not even legendary.
    I get it, and the only reason is that many fans were expecting Oshawott to evolve because he was getting a good development when he learned to control aqua jet, but now that merchandising manipulates the anime to keep the otter unevolved and face an hydreigon (who was portrayed as a very powerful fully-evolved pokemon since its debut) is getting into some people's nerves. There was no problem with Gible since no one expected him to evolve soon, his main goal was dominate draco meteor, and TheFonz is right when he says Gible didn't have as much time as Oshawott to experience gym battles; as I said before, Gible should've got this gym match agaist Volkner instead of Pikachu, but the rat is mandatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle_007 View Post
    As for their movesets ... they´re almost the same:
    - Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the strongest (or almost strongest) of their types
    - Tackle and Rock Smash are both crappy moves
    - Razor Shell and Dragon Pulse are the same redundant attacks that turns out to be signature moves.
    - Dig and Aqua Jet are the only differences.
    I'm not talking about th move's power but the type variety:

    Gible has dig and dragon pulse, 2 different types that get stab, has draco meteor, a very powerful move that also gets stab, and rock smash that's not shown as weak as it should be because of the games (in fact, in the anime is a good move), and gives him coverage against ice-types.

    Oshawott on the other hand has 3 water-type moves, ok they get stab but since oshawott is a single typed pokemon getting 3 moves of the same type will give the otter serious problems against pokemon like Jellicent or Ludicolo, since he doesn't have a coverage move for them; and tackle, really?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle_007 View Post
    The complain is about the double standard of the fandom (¬_¬), everybody praises a Gible with almost zero battle experience beating a Shuckle AND a Dusknoir and have no problem with Ash deciding to use it against a trainer that HE KNOWS had a Darkrai, but, on the other hands, they despises the idea of an Oshawott with 3 gym battles being used ONCE against a Hydreigon that is not even legendary.
    Right... Who other then you is comparing Gible to Oshawott? For starters, Dragon's are normally portrayed as power (minus Iris's Axew) while Waters types are the most common type of Pokemon seen in the anime. Next you have Oshawott, who regressed from be a battler and Pokemon trained by Ash, to a Comic Relief character with Piplup tendencies. And since when did Gym battles all of a sudden become the end all be all of how worthy you are in battle... going by that Snivy, Scraggy, and yes, even Oshwott shouldn't even be used in the league (Oshawott being the lucky one with two wins) Heck, even Krookodile shouldn't have been used since it only got one gym win as well.

    I'm fine with you hating Sinnoh, but don't bring you biasness towards Unova to try and make sense of a crappy league battle.

    As for their movesets ... they´re almost the same:
    - Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the strongest (or almost strongest) of their types
    This is the only thing the same about them... Both know the strongest move possible to them

    - Tackle and Rock Smash are both crappy moves
    When was Rock Smash in the anime crappy again?

    - Razor Shell and Dragon Pulse are the same redundant attacks that turns out to be signature moves.
    How was Dragon Pulse it's signature attack? Ash only commanded it to use it once.

    - Dig and Aqua Jet are the only differences.
    Both are used for mobility, but this wasn't their only difference
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Right... Who other then you is comparing Gible to Oshawott? For starters, Dragon's are normally portrayed as power (minus Iris's Axew) while Waters types are the most common type of Pokemon seen in the anime. Next you have Oshawott, who regressed from be a battler and Pokemon trained by Ash, to a Comic Relief character with Piplup tendencies. And since when did Gym battles all of a sudden become the end all be all of how worthy you are in battle... going by that Snivy, Scraggy, and yes, even Oshwott shouldn't even be used in the league (Oshawott being the lucky one with two wins) Heck, even Krookodile shouldn't have been used since it only got one gym win as well.

    I'm fine with you hating Sinnoh, but don't bring you biasness towards Unova to try and make sense of a crappy league battle.
    Sure, a battle that you haven´t seen yet is crappy just because a comic scan says so

    Because the whole Biting-Ash´s-head-eating-metal-and-Draco-Meteoring-Piplup was not comic relief at all, right ?
    Is not only gym battles what makes a Pokémon worthy in battle but, seriously, how many battles (not even Gym battles, BATTLES in general) did Gible had BEFORE the Overrated League?, and how many of them actually won?

    So, why is OK having an underdeveloped-comic-relief Gible almost sweeping Conway AND facing Darkrai but is a crime having a 3-gym-Oshawott in ONE battle against a Hydreigon that Ash didn´t even know Kotetsu had?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludiloco View Post
    But that's the animation even in the games.
    Only in Gen I and III

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post

    Both are used for mobility, but this wasn't their only difference
    I was about to say the say thing but you ninja'd me before I can even type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle_007 View Post
    Because the whole Biting-Ash´s-head-eating-metal-and-Draco-Meteoring-Piplup was not comic relief at all, right ?
    Is not only gym battles what makes a Pokémon worthy in battle but, seriously, how many battles (not even Gym battles, BATTLES in general) did Gible had BEFORE the Overrated League?, and how many of them actually won?
    Would you please stop calling it Overrated league. Nobody overrate it, everyone knows we have seen better.

    On Topic: vs Hydreigon is a team effort. When will writers stop this? Why can't Ash just beat a Pseudo Legendary with just one or two Pokemon? The closest thing is Iris's Dragonite but I don't know if that even counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle_007 View Post
    Sure, a battle that you haven´t seen yet is crappy just because a comic scan says so

    Because the whole Biting-Ash´s-head-eating-metal-and-Draco-Meteoring-Piplup was not comic relief at all, right ?
    Is not only gym battles what makes a Pokémon worthy in battle but, seriously, how many battles (not even Gym battles, BATTLES in general) did Gible had BEFORE the Overrated League?, and how many of them actually won?

    So, why is OK having an underdeveloped-comic-relief Gible almost sweeping Conway AND facing Darkrai but is a crime having a 3-gym-Oshawott in ONE battle against a Hydreigon that Ash didn´t even know Kotetsu had?
    How can Oshawott VS Hydreigon be a good battle? Maybe if it learns Ice Beam, but then it could most likely get blocked and 1HKOd by one Tri Attack.

    We didn't say Gible wasn't a comic relief. We meant he was a good balance. Oshawott has no balance anymore, he's a joke. Not at the start, but his development went nowhere. How isn't Oshawott as "underdeveloped" as Gible as you say? A least we saw Ash train with Gible more and it's training pulled off more in the long run

    And we get it, you hate Sinnoh. But we're not being biased.




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    I think the sheer absurdity of a samurott hitting on meloetta and competing with a piplup would make things so much funnier than if wotter does it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    I think the sheer absurdity of a samurott hitting on meloetta and competing with a piplup would make things so much funnier than if wotter does it.
    Samurott is supposed to be mature and Oshawott is supposed to be immature. It's in their specie's nature, like Oshawott is a lil samurai guy growing up as it evolves. That's why Japan only likes Oshawott




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Samurott is supposed to be mature and Oshawott is supposed to be immature. It's in their specie's nature, like Oshawott is a lil samurai guy growing up as it evolves. That's why Japan only likes Oshawott
    They don't have to be all the same. I mean Dragonites are supposed to be all happy and derpy and stuff but look at iris's

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    They don't have to be all the same. I mean Dragonites are supposed to be all happy and derpy and stuff but look at iris's
    From bulbapedia:
    "Dragonite have a kindhearted disposition and are said to have human-like intelligence. They have been said to save people from drowning and lead ships that have been trapped in storms to safety. If angered, however, they are capable of going on uncontrollable rampages with devastating results."

    Iris's falls under it, hers just has more personality, is a little more agressive and competitive




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    From bulbapedia:
    "Dragonite have a kindhearted disposition and are said to have human-like intelligence. They have been said to save people from drowning and lead ships that have been trapped in storms to safety. If angered, however, they are capable of going on uncontrollable rampages with devastating results."

    Iris's falls under it, hers just has more personality, is a little more agressive and competitive
    The last thing that Dragonite has is a kindhearted disposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    The last thing that Dragonite has is a kindhearted disposition.
    It's more of an underlying kindheart but with a tough exterior. Like how he protected the Pidove and took a liking to Iris




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    How can Oshawott VS Hydreigon be a good battle? Maybe if it learns Ice Beam, but then it could most likely get blocked and 1HKOd by one Tri Attack.

    We didn't say Gible wasn't a comic relief. We meant he was a good balance. Oshawott has no balance anymore, he's a joke. Not at the start, but his development went nowhere. How isn't Oshawott as "underdeveloped" as Gible as you say? A least we saw Ash train with Gible more and it's training pulled off more in the long run

    And we get it, you hate Sinnoh. But we're not being biased.
    And Gible sweeping Shuckle AND Dusknoir was a good battle?

    I would prefer a Swords Dance - X-Scissor/Fury Cutter combo over Ice Beam, it would look cooler :3

    Oshawott had more development than Gible because it had more gym battles and more victories, apart from that, Ash trained Oshawott to master Aqua Jet AND to not rely on its scalchop.

    On its run before the ... League, Gible only trained its Draco Meteor and, suddenly, it became a mini powerhouse and nobody objects to the fact it faced a Darkrai with almost zero development (¬_¬), how Oshawott being a comic relief now nullifies its previous achievements?

    Before their respective leagues:
    OSHAWOTT: 3 gym battles and a bunch of losses against fire-types
    GIBLE: 0 gym and a loss against Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle_007 View Post
    And Gible sweeping Shuckle AND Dusknoir was a good battle?

    I would prefer a Swords Dance - X-Scissor/Fury Cutter combo over Ice Beam, it would look cooler :3

    Oshawott had more development than Gible because it had more gym battles and more victories, apart from that, Ash trained Oshawott to master Aqua Jet AND to not rely on its scalchop.

    On its run before the ... League, Gible only trained its Draco Meteor and, suddenly, it became a mini powerhouse and nobody objects to the fact it faced a Darkrai with almost zero development (¬_¬), how Oshawott being a comic relief now nullifies its previous achievements?

    Before their respective leagues:
    OSHAWOTT: 3 gym battles and a bunch of losses against fire-types
    GIBLE: 0 gym and a loss against Barry
    What are we suppose to do... all share you hate of Sinnoh? No, Gible is the past and Oshawott is the future. If they can somehow fail at the same thing twice, then the writing isn't progressing at all, it's become stagnant. Again, Gible is acceptable because of it's typing and the Draco Meteor comic relief training it did before hand. And of those three gym battles Oshawott took part in, it only got two wins. Of coarse, then win against Cilan was crap because Oshawott won with a single Razor Shell after taking Bullet Seeds and Bites. And for supposedly learning to not rely on it Scalchop, that was the whole reason it lost to Clay's Palpitoad in the first place. As I said, Gyms are not the end all be all of telling us how worthy you are for the League.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    What are we suppose to do... all share you hate of Sinnoh? No, Gible is the past and Oshawott is the future. If they can somehow fail at the same thing twice, then the writing isn't progressing at all, it's become stagnant. Again, Gible is acceptable because of it's typing and the Draco Meteor comic relief training it did before hand. And of those three gym battles Oshawott took part in, it only got two wins. Of coarse, then win against Cilan was crap because Oshawott won with a single Razor Shell after taking Bullet Seeds and Bites. And for supposedly learning to not rely on it Scalchop, that was the whole reason it lost to Clay's Palpitoad in the first place. As I said, Gyms are not the end all be all of telling us how worthy you are for the League.
    I don't see how Gible deserves more then Oshawott I really don't there is no argument to prove it and no the typing isn't one, they didnt make a big deal of him being a dragon type.

    While he has become a joke(as was Gible) we know even though he didn't take the path they wanted for him at first, that like all the other pokemon Oshawott is also stronger and able to beat strong pokemon rigth now.

    He doesn't have to necessarily learn to not rely on his scalchop, its part of his body not Krokoodile Sunglasses.

    Still Oshawott will most likelly lose looking at it.

    I think Hydreigon beats him and Boldore and Lucario beats Snivy and Unfezant, I just wonder if Unfezant gets a win, since as far as I'm concerned it seems like Oshawott, Boldore and Snivy won't, yes I'm ignoring the fact that they can be recalled.

    So what are we looking at rigth now

    Satoshi

    Pikachu: Samurott and Swanna
    Pignite: Hydreigon possibly Ferrothorn
    Unfezant: migth get the 6th pokemon

    Kotetsu

    Hydreigon: Boldore, Oshawott
    6th pokemon: Pignite
    Lucario: Snivy, Unfezant, Pikachu
    Last edited by Pepsi_Plunge; 15th December 2012 at 7:23 AM.

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    Ugh how about we just agree that Mijumaru and Gible are both terrible lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Ugh how about we just agree that Mijumaru and Gible are both terrible lol.
    I think theyre both great, I think Gible gag became terrible after being spammed and I hated the fact they got rid of Gliscor for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge View Post
    I think theyre both great, I think Gible gag became terrible after being spammed and I hated the fact they got rid of Gliscor for it.
    Lol that gag was the only decent part about Gible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Ugh how about we just agree that Mijumaru and Gible are both terrible lol.
    I like both of them... I just don't know why were comparing them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I like both of them... I just don't know why were comparing them?
    Cuz we are all bored as hell and want this pointless league to be done with lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I like both of them... I just don't know why were comparing them?
    No idea, I jumped in when I saw an argument that made no sense to me XD.

    I am entertained Robert , haven't seen a bad figth yet, I'm annoyed at how short the league his and Pikachu taking wins that other pokemon needed when the league is this short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Cuz we are all bored as hell and want this pointless league to be done with lol.
    007 is just trying to make a fuss to ignore the fact that that this league isn't any better, if not worst then DP's

    More to this episode though... looks like a bunch of fast ko's :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    007 is just trying to make a fuss to ignore the fact that that this league isn't any better, if not worst then DP's

    More to this episode though... looks like a bunch of fast ko's :/
    I say worse, at least in Sinnoh it was someone other then the rat spamming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    007 is just trying to make a fuss to ignore the fact that that this league isn't any better, if not worst then DP's

    More to this episode though... looks like a bunch of fast ko's :/
    Well the 3vs3 in this league is definetly better then the two 3vs3 we got in DP and I like the Kohei battle, I've actually watched the Sinnoh league like 5 times atleast but I do the same with Hoenn(don't do with the old ones because I dont have the episodes) and I don't like Youtube.

    Robert are you making a P.O.K.E.M.O.N impression? impressions get people banned XD didn't you see the Cybercubed impersonators yesterday?

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    I just hope that this battle surprises me. I'm not looking forward to it but really hope it's good due to the fact that it's the last episode of the year and there's a two week break in between. Hope there's a New Year's compilation trailer and we see stuff like team spoilers later on. Or maybe some scenes of what may happen after this match.

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