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Thread: BWS2-23: Ash Vs Kotetsu! Secret Weapon Hydreigon!! [FIRST POST]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durian Seed View Post
    That's a highly unfair assessment, to say that Lucario(as Riolu) is strong because it beat Enbuoh.

    Enbuoh had been at the receiving end of Hydro Cannon and Aqua jet....you know...
    Emboar didn't look exhausted in it's fight with Rilou, and it looked like Ash and the gang were shocked to see Rilou capable of holding it's own. I'm sure the writers intend for Rilou to be portrayed as a powerful Pokemon, just like how they made Homika's Koffing more powerful then one would expect.
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    In the preview it says Riolu lands on top of Unfezant and unleashes a barrage of attacks. Didn't Paul's Weavile do the same thing to Staraptor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gliscor&yanmega View Post
    Or you know, Rilou could just be very strong, it defeated Emboar after all. Type advantage doesn't mean everything in a fight, for Ash and everyone else. Unfezant has already proved itself in the battle against Skyla's, unlike other series Ash is dealing with 10 Pokemon, plus so far Best Wishes doesn't have as many episodes as other series did, there's simply more to do with less time to do it, which results in certain Pokemon not getting many battles and instead get at least one special moment.
    You gotta remember though... Emboar only beat Samurott because of Attract, so it was weakened before Riolu came into battle. I don't know how one gym battle proves a Pokemon's worth here Gliscor, if she only gets a win there and the double battle (which is hardly fair because Pansage did most of the work and the brothers weren't all that strong) then that's not really impressive. Call it victim of circumstance, but that hardly does wonders for her... otherwise that like saying that despite it's current losing streak, Dragonite was proven capable when it beat Beartic, even if it never wins again. Snivy never got a special moment, so you can't say everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk3190 View Post
    In the preview it says Riolu lands on top of Unfezant and unleashes a barrage of attacks. Didn't Paul's Weavile do the same thing to Staraptor?
    Actually a Pokemon riding on opponent Pokemon has happened a lot of time. Pikachu did the same to Latios. I am sure Unfezant will also shrug it off somehow but that won't guarantee a win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundedshock View Post
    You are aware that IF Rocky Road did not protect Zeustle, they would have lost to the surprise double hyper beam.

    Broccolihead never would have won without Speedwings's aerial help.

    So do not say they did Jack Squat. Every Ash-Cilan tag team is lobsided in Cilan's favor at the end even if it does not concern him. Ash's Pokemon do all the work while Cilan's lands the final blow. Look at the battles again.
    Yeah it did what a Double Battle partner should do, it still doesn't mean she got a win, same with Boldore. If that was true, then most Pokemon should also have an extra win as well since they assisted in the win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KibaLG8 View Post
    Yeah it did what a Double Battle partner should do, it still doesn't mean she got a win, same with Boldore. If that was true, then most Pokemon should also have an extra win as well since they assisted in the win.
    That reminds me of Snorunt back in the battle against Juan... did anyone give the thing the win, despite it fainting?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KibaLG8 View Post
    Yeah it did what a Double Battle partner should do, it still doesn't mean she got a win, same with Boldore. If that was true, then most Pokemon should also have an extra win as well since they assisted in the win.
    Ofc they should, like I said a double battle is a double battle like Groundeshock said, if those didn't assis the one that knocked out the oponent the battle wouldn't have been won...

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    But Snorunt's case is different. It didn't do anything to help its partner. Hell it couldn't even help itself.

    Unfezant and Pansage vs Braviary and Drilbur is different case altogether. If it wasn't for Unfezant, Pansage would have lost before he could say P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    You gotta remember though... Emboar only beat Samurott because of Attract, so it was weakened before Riolu came into battle. I don't know how one gym battle proves a Pokemon's worth here Gliscor, if she only gets a win there and the double battle (which is hardly fair because Pansage did most of the work and the brothers weren't all that strong) then that's not really impressive. Call it victim of circumstance, but that hardly does wonders for her... otherwise that like saying that despite it's current losing streak, Dragonite was proven capable when it beat Beartic, even if it never wins again. Snivy never got a special moment, so you can't say everyone.
    So long as a Pokemon gets one battle against something that isn't weak, and is able to win, then it proved itself. It may be ideal for things to get a better record, but it's not needed to show a Pokemon is capable of battling effectively.

    I'm not talking about "impressiveness" at all. More so, of usefulness, of which Unfezant has.

    You can be proven capable of battling even if you loss, how you battle determines it as well. For Dragonite it's clearly a good battler, it just has issues. It's not like losing makes it less useful for a battle.

    Snivy may have never had a big moment in a gym, but it's been shown useful in battles nonetheless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gliscor&yanmega View Post
    So long as a Pokemon gets one battle against something that isn't weak, and is able to win, then it proved itself. It may be ideal for things to get a better record, but it's not needed to show a Pokemon is capable of battling effectively.

    I'm not talking about "impressiveness" at all. More so, of usefulness, of which Unfezant has.

    You can be proven capable of battling even if you loss, how you battle determines it as well. For Dragonite it's clearly a good battler, it just has issues. It's not like losing makes it less useful for a battle.

    Snivy may have never had a big moment in a gym, but it's been shown useful in battles nonetheless.
    I hardly call either win in Skyla's gym proven. Swoobat took a Stone from Stone Edge and wasted enough of it's energy fighting Krokorok, even if it didn't show. Same with Swanna, wasted most of it's effort on Pikachu and Tranquil (before she evolved)

    How is Unfezant gonna be useful if all she does is lose in single battles from here on in (not say that she will, but it's been happening)

    The only time Snivy proved her worth was against Pawniard, way back more then 70 episodes ago (and I guess tanking a whole load of Fire attacks)

    Again this bring up the case in point, how can anything be useful in battle if it never wins again. If your thinking in terms of damage dealt... that's sorta pointless when your the last Pokemon for your trainer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundedshock View Post
    You are aware that IF Rocky Road did not protect Zeustle, they would have lost to the surprise double hyper beam.

    Broccolihead never would have won without Speedwings's aerial help.

    So do not say they did Jack Squat. Every Ash-Cilan tag team is lobsided in Cilan's favor at the end even if it does not concern him. Ash's Pokemon do all the work while Cilan's lands the final blow. Look at the battles again.
    I didn't say that Unfezant and Boldore couldn't be credited for aiding their partner. Just that only the wins belong to Crustle/Pansage not Boldore/Unfezant.

    Look at any other match. Only the Pokémon who actually knocks out the Pokémon get any actual credit.

    Like Tobias's Darkrai. It was Sceptile that took it out, shouldn't Heracross and Gible share in that glory and give them a technical win?

    No?

    Then why the hell, just because we're talking about tag battles, should Ash's Pokémon get any credit as much as Crustle/Pansage are getting.

    They shouldn't.

    Even a group effort, like Drake's Dragonite, IT was still Pikachu who took it out. It was Pikachu that took the win and the glory.

    So of course Boldore/Unfezant aided in that battle, but it doesn't prove their strength NOR does give them a win.

    Remember for Boldore, Ash won because Cilan's Crustle came through. Boldore lost, plain and simple, even if it's sacrifice resulted in a win, it's still a loss. Like in chess, you sometime sacrifice your pieces to force your opponent to do something you want them to do. Even if you win in the end, those pieces still were taken and not usable.

    And for Unfezant, she still didn't use a deciding move. It was all Pansage, and Unfezant ONLY managed to use one connecting attack on Braviary?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I hardly call either win in Skyla's gym proven. Swoobat took a Stone from Stone Edge and wasted enough of it's energy fighting Krokorok, even if it didn't show. Same with Swanna, wasted most of it's effort on Pikachu and Tranquil (before she evolved)

    How is Unfezant gonna be useful if all she does is lose in single battles from here on in (not say that she will, but it's been happening)

    The only time Snivy proved her worth was against Pawniard, way back more then 70 episodes ago (and I guess tanking a whole load of Fire attacks)

    Again this bring up the case in point, how can anything be useful in battle if it never wins again. If your thinking in terms of damage dealt... that's sorta pointless when your the last Pokemon for your trainer.
    My point is that they got something to show their worth, losing after words makes no differences, you aren't going to win every battle. Unfezant so far has only lost one other battle, and may be losing another in this battle, yet it can still get another win after.

    I'm not getting more into this, I've said what I've said, obviously neither us will agree with each other. I think Unfezant has been shown to be a perfectly capable battler, you don't.
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    Riolu is evolving in this episode, just read that Lucario is feature in this on bulbapedia, which means Ash has another challenge to deal with. Kotetsu would have a team of fully evolved pokemon which would give Ash a hard time, especially that Hydreigon.
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    I don't know if you have seen it, but at the end of the last episode (after the ending) there is a small preview of uncoming battles. You can see Sawk VS Leavanny, Eevee VS Druddigon, Samurott VS Pignite and Pikachu VS Lucario. I casually saw it today.

    The only thing I can say is that it looks awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheru View Post
    I don't know if you have seen it, but at the end of the last episode (after the ending) there is a small preview of uncoming battles. You can see Sawk VS Leavanny, Eevee VS Druddigon, Samurott VS Pignite and Pikachu VS Lucario. I casually saw it today.

    The only thing I can say is that it looks awesome.
    haha ya ur a little late on that one :P its been talked about for days now :P but im excited to see lucario!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheru View Post
    I don't know if you have seen it, but at the end of the last episode (after the ending) there is a small preview of uncoming battles. You can see Sawk VS Leavanny, Eevee VS Druddigon, Samurott VS Pignite and Pikachu VS Lucario. I casually saw it today.

    The only thing I can say is that it looks awesome.
    Those two aren't confirmed but yes we have seen it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    I didn't say that Unfezant and Boldore couldn't be credited for aiding their partner. Just that only the wins belong to Crustle/Pansage not Boldore/Unfezant.

    Look at any other match. Only the Pokémon who actually knocks out the Pokémon get any actual credit.

    Like Tobias's Darkrai. It was Sceptile that took it out, shouldn't Heracross and Gible share in that glory and give them a technical win?

    No?

    Then why the hell, just because we're talking about tag battles, should Ash's Pokémon get any credit as much as Crustle/Pansage are getting.

    They shouldn't.

    Even a group effort, like Drake's Dragonite, IT was still Pikachu who took it out. It was Pikachu that took the win and the glory.

    So of course Boldore/Unfezant aided in that battle, but it doesn't prove their strength NOR does give them a win.

    Remember for Boldore, Ash won because Cilan's Crustle came through. Boldore lost, plain and simple, even if it's sacrifice resulted in a win, it's still a loss. Like in chess, you sometime sacrifice your pieces to force your opponent to do something you want them to do. Even if you win in the end, those pieces still were taken and not usable.

    And for Unfezant, she still didn't use a deciding move. It was all Pansage, and Unfezant ONLY managed to use one connecting attack on Braviary?
    Meh, aiding a win is still good. Think of it as a competitive battle, where wins are almost never distributed equally, there's walls, there's supporters and there's those who deliver most kills. Yet everyone is vital. Of course it's not quite the case here, but still, people shouldn't be so focused on wins, but how the Pokemon battles, how much damage it delivered/how many hits it took to aid the next guy, how useful was it overall. In these cases Boldore and Unfezant were absolutely worthy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    I didn't say that Unfezant and Boldore couldn't be credited for aiding their partner. Just that only the wins belong to Crustle/Pansage not Boldore/Unfezant.

    Look at any other match. Only the Pokémon who actually knocks out the Pokémon get any actual credit.

    Like Tobias's Darkrai. It was Sceptile that took it out, shouldn't Heracross and Gible share in that glory and give them a technical win?

    No?

    Then why the hell, just because we're talking about tag battles, should Ash's Pokémon get any credit as much as Crustle/Pansage are getting.

    They shouldn't.

    Even a group effort, like Drake's Dragonite, IT was still Pikachu who took it out. It was Pikachu that took the win and the glory.

    So of course Boldore/Unfezant aided in that battle, but it doesn't prove their strength NOR does give them a win.

    Remember for Boldore, Ash won because Cilan's Crustle came through. Boldore lost, plain and simple, even if it's sacrifice resulted in a win, it's still a loss. Like in chess, you sometime sacrifice your pieces to force your opponent to do something you want them to do. Even if you win in the end, those pieces still were taken and not usable.

    And for Unfezant, she still didn't use a deciding move. It was all Pansage, and Unfezant ONLY managed to use one connecting attack on Braviary?
    Exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge View Post
    Ofc they should, like I said a double battle is a double battle like Groundeshock said, if those didn't assis the one that knocked out the oponent the battle wouldn't have been won...
    Yeah but it didn't KO anything itself, that's my point. I agree that it did assist Pansage in winning but the fact is that Unfezant didn't lose but it didn't KO anything either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KibaLG8 View Post
    I have a strong feeling that the Axew Episode will feature Ash's second round, plus the rest of it, then most of the episode on Axew, then Ash VS Stephan is revealed, & the episode ends with the 2 on the stadium, about to start their match. Then the Ash VS Stephan Episode will happen, with the Ash VS Kotetsu battle happening in the last several minutes, then finishing off in the Hydreigon Episode, then January 3rd & January 10th will feature Ash VS Virgil. I really hope Ash VS Kotetsu isn't rushed but I can see the writers doing this.-_-
    So they're gonna skip Ash's 1st round opponent? Ash vs Trip wasn't the true first round, but the prelims
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    So they're gonna skip Ash's 1st round opponent? Ash vs Trip wasn't the true first round, but the prelims
    No. The first round was Top 128, second round will be vs a COtD [Top 64], Ash vs Stephan is the third round [Top 32] and Ash vs Kotetsu is the fourth round [Top 16]



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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    No. The first round was Top 128, second round will be vs a COtD [Top 64], Ash vs Stephan is the third round [Top 32] and Ash vs Kotetsu is the fourth round [Top 16]
    I really hope Ash fights a cotd after that and loses to virgil in the semi finals OR beats Virgil and loses to a Cotd... I don't Ash doing worse :/

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    I hope this battle won't be concluded with both sides having only one Pokémon. Ash should take him out more 'casually'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozers View Post
    I hope this battle won't be concluded with both sides having only one Pokémon. Ash should take him out more 'casually'
    Dude, that how all of his battles end, something about the challenge and all that crap. The last time this happened was in the 5th gym in Sinnoh I believe. Ash is just too prideful to actually call back a pokemon unless they are losing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    No. The first round was Top 128, second round will be vs a COtD [Top 64], Ash vs Stephan is the third round [Top 32] and Ash vs Kotetsu is the fourth round [Top 16]
    Trip vs Ash is not round one. As Bianca vs Kotetsu takes place round 1 but Ash vs Trip dosen't it takes place the round before so first round is top 64.
    So it goes Top 128,prelims (Ash vs Trip ) Top 64,round 1 (Ash vs COtD,) Top 32, round 2 (Ash vs COtD) Top 16, round 3 (Ash vs Stephan)
    Top 8,round 4 (Ash vs Kotetsu)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
    Riolu is evolving in this episode, just read that Lucario is feature in this on bulbapedia, which means Ash has another challenge to deal with. Kotetsu would have a team of fully evolved pokemon which would give Ash a hard time, especially that Hydreigon.
    After thinking a bit, I've come to the conclusion that Lucario isn't even that strong of a Pokemon. It's only because of its portrayal in the 8th movie that people seem to think it's extremely powerful. I'm suddenly reminded of Maylene's Lucario and how it wasn't nearly as strong as the species was hyped to be; if I remember correctly, Ash's virtually un-trained Buizel tied with it, which says a lot. I really think Ash will be able to beat Kotetsu's Lucario without much difficulty.

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