Razor Wind's New OU Team

[Hayabusa]

Interesting Machamp lead you have there. I always thought Bullet Punch was better on a LeadChamp, and here's why.

First, you'll probably see a few Azelf leads out there. They normally have a super effective Psychic, too. Not only that, they are faster than Machamp.

So normally what happens, an offensive-minded opponent will Psychic your Machamp with Azelf, rather than setting up Stealth Rock. You'll select Payback, since you'll be going second and it's Dark type (super effective).

So, here's the amount of Damage you'll take from Timid/Jolly/Naive Azelf's Psychic (assuming a different EV spread than yours. 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe Machamp.

252SpAtk Azelf (Neutral) Psychic vs 240HP/16SpDef Leftovers Machamp (Neutral): 83% - 99% (320 - 380 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

You fire back a Payback second turn:

248Atk Machamp (+Atk) Payback vs 0HP/4Def Levitate Azelf (Neutral): 54% - 65% (160 - 190 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

So, he does 99% to you, and you do 65% to him. This means, you will die on your second turn without Bullet Punch.

Use this Machamp in other words:

Machamp@Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
- Bullet Punch
- Payback
- Dynamic Punch
- Substitute (if Leftovers)/Stone Edge (for flyers)/Protect (for scouting, and easier prediction)

[Razor Wind]

Interesting Machamp lead you have there. I always thought Bullet Punch was better on a LeadChamp, and here's why.

First, you'll probably see a few Azelf leads out there. They normally have a super effective Psychic, too. Not only that, they are faster than Machamp.

So normally what happens, an offensive-minded opponent will Psychic your Machamp with Azelf, rather than setting up Stealth Rock. You'll select Payback, since you'll be going second and it's Dark type (super effective).

So, here's the amount of Damage you'll take from Timid/Jolly/Naive Azelf's Psychic (assuming a different EV spread than yours. 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe Machamp.

252SpAtk Azelf (Neutral) Psychic vs 240HP/16SpDef Leftovers Machamp (Neutral): 83% - 99% (320 - 380 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

You fire back a Payback second turn:

248Atk Machamp (+Atk) Payback vs 0HP/4Def Levitate Azelf (Neutral): 54% - 65% (160 - 190 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

So, he does 99% to you, and you do 65% to him. This means, you will die on your second turn without Bullet Punch.

Use this Machamp in other words:

Machamp@Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
- Bullet Punch
- Payback
- Dynamic Punch
- Substitute (if Leftovers)/Stone Edge (for flyers)/Protect (for scouting, and easier prediction)

Seem to make sense to me, I will think of it later. So what do you think about my other Pokemon and the overall team?

[Magicmonkey]

Interesting Machamp lead you have there. I always thought Bullet Punch was better on a LeadChamp, and here's why.

First, you'll probably see a few Azelf leads out there. They normally have a super effective Psychic, too. Not only that, they are faster than Machamp.

So normally what happens, an offensive-minded opponent will Psychic your Machamp with Azelf, rather than setting up Stealth Rock. You'll select Payback, since you'll be going second and it's Dark type (super effective).

So, here's the amount of Damage you'll take from Timid/Jolly/Naive Azelf's Psychic (assuming a different EV spread than yours. 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe Machamp.

252SpAtk Azelf (Neutral) Psychic vs 240HP/16SpDef Leftovers Machamp (Neutral): 83% - 99% (320 - 380 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

You fire back a Payback second turn:

248Atk Machamp (+Atk) Payback vs 0HP/4Def Levitate Azelf (Neutral): 54% - 65% (160 - 190 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

So, he does 99% to you, and you do 65% to him. This means, you will die on your second turn without Bullet Punch.

Use this Machamp in other words:

Machamp@Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
- Bullet Punch
- Payback
- Dynamic Punch
- Substitute (if Leftovers)/Stone Edge (for flyers)/Protect (for scouting, and easier prediction)

I think your calc probably hasn't included paybacks power doubling effect, because that seems a very low ammount of damage for machamp vs azelf, azelf being very fragile. Payback can OHKO gengar and do 60% to azelf, seems unlikely. I would expect paybck to OHKO (focus sash) then bullet punch to do 1 HP.

[justinjiaxinghu]

Wow, it looks a lot better now! Donphan is indeed a really boss spinner, and Machamp gives you dat Dark resistance that Latios just hates. :P

[superstar]

Nice team Razor Wind! I would recommend using Disable/Pain Split over Psychic on Gengar. Focus Blast and Shadow ball already have perfect coverage, and you can Disable things like Terrakion's Stone Edge and get another free sub up! You also wreck choice users.

[Hayabusa]

Seem to make sense to me, I will think of it later. So what do you think about my other Pokemon and the overall team?

I will get to the other Pokemon. I am confused as to who your 6 Pokemon are, though. Are the "new challengers" just subs in case your team has a flaw?

For now, I'll give Machamp/Chansey/Latios/Gengar/Jirachi/Donphan my rate. I like this team a lot better than what you first posted, given you now have a defensive core (Donphan + Chansey), and other Pokemon with Life Orb now have access to Heals via Wish.

I already gave Machamp a rate: he really needs Bullet Punch to help beat Focus Sash leads. Also, give him that EV spread I sent you, so that he can survive Azelf's Psychic (assuming it's not Modest). Use Leftovers if you pick Substitute as your 4th move. Lum Berry if you choose Protect or Stone Edge. This is where you get to choose according to who walls the rest of your team.

Chansey's moveset and EVs are fine. Her moveset is also good. Ghost Pokemon with Taunt/Substitute will wreck her, though. That means, you need something to solidly take care of Ghost types (not just Gengar - your own Gengar takes care of him well enough). A pursuit user would be a good partner for this Chansey.

Gengar and Latios work well together, since Gengar can take down Pokemon like Chansey, allowing Latios to sweep. Your Gengar, however does not have enough to take down Chansey, since he lacks Disable/Pain Split.

This Gengar would be better for you, IMO.

Gengar@Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

OR

Gengar@Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
- Substitute
- Disable
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Basically, I understand why you used Psychic on Gengar, but it isn't necessary. Disable is there for Pokes like Conkeldurr, and Pain Split for Chansey.

Now for your Latios:

Latios @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
- Psychic Psyshock, for bypassing special walls if their Defense is low
- Thunderbolt An alternative would be HP Fire, for Scizor with Pursuit (he murders you otherwise). You still kill things like Skarmory, too.
- Surf
- Draco Meteor

--> If you use HP Fire, that means you can basically give Jirachi Trick in place of Fire Punch. Trickscarfing onto walls is a great way to setup your Pokemon, or to bypass those walls in general. Jirachi's full potential as a Choice Scarf user is unlocked in that case.

And a note on the Nature for Jirachi: use Jolly. You need to be able to outrun +1 Speed (Dragon Dance used once) Haxorus, whose Mold Breaker EQ murders most of your team.

So, use this Jirachi:

Jirachi@Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Jolly
EVs: Same
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head
- U-Turn/Thunderpunch
- Trick

Donphan is standard, and helps you with your lack of Physical Wall + Dedicated Rapid Spinner + SR user. So that's good now.

So, your Choice now. Pursuit, to kill ghost types who Wall Chansey? Your Scizor would actually be a good candidate. The team is mostly fixed now, though.

I think your calc probably hasn't included paybacks power doubling effect, because that seems a very low ammount of damage for machamp vs azelf, azelf being very fragile. Payback can OHKO gengar and do 60% to azelf, seems unlikely. I would expect paybck to OHKO (focus sash) then bullet punch to do 1 HP.

You're probably right about that. http://kalashnikov.pokecenter.ru/damage/ is the damage calculator I'm using; it does have an option for Payback, "Defender is slower than Attacker." But, that doesn't necessarily mean that Machamp has been hit first or not. So, that's with Azelf not using an attack first turn it seems like.

Either way, Focus Sash Azelf will still have 1 HP left, meaning it's a 2HKO with Payback, Bullet Punch.

Without Bullet Punch, you are KO'd by Azelf. That Machamp needs Bullet Punch (with those SpDef. EVs, too).

[Razor Wind]

I will get to the other Pokemon. I am confused as to who your 6 Pokemon are, though. Are the "new challengers" just subs in case your team has a flaw?

Yup, that is correct.

I already gave Machamp a rate: he really needs Bullet Punch to help beat Focus Sash leads. Also, give him that EV spread I sent you, so that he can survive Azelf's Psychic (assuming it's not Modest). Use Leftovers if you pick Substitute as your 4th move. Lum Berry if you choose Protect or Stone Edge. This is where you get to choose according to who walls the rest of your team.

Yea, I saw the post, I just haven't edit it yet.

Gengar and Latios work well together, since Gengar can take down Pokemon like Chansey, allowing Latios to sweep. Your Gengar, however does not have enough to take down Chansey, since he lacks Disable/Pain Split.

This Gengar would be better for you, IMO.

Gengar@Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

OR

Gengar@Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
- Substitute
- Disable
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Basically, I understand why you used Psychic on Gengar, but it isn't necessary. Disable is there for Pokes like Conkeldurr, and Pain Split for Chansey.

Can you please tell me how these two sets you provided can aid me in my team? Thx

Now for your Latios:

Latios @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
- Psychic Psyshock, for bypassing special walls if their Defense is low
- Thunderbolt An alternative would be HP Fire, for Scizor with Pursuit (he murders you otherwise). You still kill things like Skarmory, too.
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
--> If you use HP Fire, that means you can basically give Jirachi Trick in place of Fire Punch. Trickscarfing onto walls is a great way to setup your Pokemon, or to bypass those walls in general. Jirachi's full potential as a Choice Scarf user is unlocked in that case.

So what you mean to say is changee Psychic into Psyshock? But HP Fire would make my Latios not at full speed due to the IV Speed of 30.

And a note on the Nature for Jirachi: use Jolly. You need to be able to outrun +1 Speed (Dragon Dance used once) Haxorus, whose Mold Breaker EQ murders most of your team.

So, use this Jirachi:

Jirachi@Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Jolly
EVs: Same
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head
- U-Turn/Thunderpunch
- Trick

I'm most probably going to go with U-Turn instead of Thunderbolt. But that causes me to need at least an electric move on Latios, which is why I don't think using HP fire is good on h. I think I will just run Fire Punch instead of Trick. Thoughts?

Donphan is standard, and helps you with your lack of Physical Wall + Dedicated Rapid Spinner + SR user. So that's good now.

Ok then.

So, your Choice now. Pursuit, to kill ghost types who Wall Chansey? Your Scizor would actually be a good candidate. The team is mostly fixed now, though.

But that will give me more weakness to Fire, I think I will go with the main 6 Pokemon. Is it okay?

[justinjiaxinghu]

wow this seems like one of the of the most active team rates :P. on a different note, razor wind, do you have an art shop? Those banners are really good...

[Razor Wind]

wow this seems like one of the of the most active team rates :P. on a different note, razor wind, do you have an art shop? Those banners are really good...

Thanks ^^
And no, i don't
I have no plans to opening an art shop at the moment, maybe I might in the future.

[Hayabusa]

Yup, that is correct.


Can you please tell me how these two sets you provided can aid me in my team? Thx

I already did, if you read. Latios is walled by Chansey. Either of those Gengar movesets counter Chansey, thus allowing Latios to sweep.

So what you mean to say is changee Psychic into Psyshock? But HP Fire would make my Latios not at full speed due to the IV Speed of 30.

Yes. Psychic to Psyshock. IV Speed of 30 is only one point off. Also, there are 3 reasons for HP Fire. Bypassing bulky steel types like Ferrothorn/Jirachi/Skarmory, bypassing checks like Scizor (again, who would otherwise kill you) and getting A LOT of coverage via Surf + HP Fire.

I'm most probably going to go with U-Turn instead of Thunderbolt

You mean ThunderPUNCH.

But that causes me to need at least an electric move on Latios, which is why I don't think using HP fire is good on h. I think I will just run Fire Punch instead of Trick. Thoughts?

I already gave you my thoughts; T-Punch means you don't need Thunderbolt on Latios. HP Fire on Latios means you don't need Fire Punch on Jirachi. And HP Fire, as I said above already, is really nice on Latios for those 3 reasons I listed.

But that will give me more weakness to Fire, I think I will go with the main 6 Pokemon. Is it okay?

Your team now is fine as is, I was just giving you more options if you wanted to change up your team.

[Razor Wind]

I already did, if you read. Latios is walled by Chansey. Either of those Gengar movesets counter Chansey, thus allowing Latios to sweep.

How does Pain Split work actually?

Yes. Psychic to Psyshock. IV Speed of 30 is only one point off. Also, there are 3 reasons for HP Fire. Bypassing bulky steel types like Ferrothorn/Jirachi/Skarmory, bypassing checks like Scizor (again, who would otherwise kill you) and getting A LOT of coverage via Surf + HP Fire.

O, now I get it

[ You mean ThunderPUNCH.

Yea xD I was kinda in a hurry when i typed.

I already gave you my thoughts; T-Punch means you don't need Thunderbolt on Latios. HP Fire on Latios means you don't need Fire Punch on Jirachi. And HP Fire, as I said above already, is really nice on Latios for those 3 reasons I listed.

Ok then, I will switch the two's places.

Your team now is fine as is, I was just giving you more options if you wanted to change up your team.

Thx ^^

[azeem40]

How does Pain Split work actually?




O, now I get it



Yea xD I was kinda in a hurry when i typed.



Ok then, I will switch the two's places.


Thx ^^

It takes HP of user and target, averages them, and changes the current HP of both to that level. If this HP value is higher than either Pokemon's maximum HP, then that Pokemon's HP is simply maximized.

[Razor Wind]

But how can that help me deal with Chanseys? She's just gonna use Wish / Softboiled again to restore her HP...

[azeem40]

If you are very weakened, you can just Pain Split that health back. You have Focus Blast. Just use Pain Split Wisely. You also have Disable to force Blissey out. What can she do to your Gengar anyway?

[Razor Wind]

Yes I get it, but how much can Focus Blast possibly do to a Chansey? Besides, which Chansey would go against a Gengar?

[Hayabusa]

So, Pain Split adds your Pokemon's remaining HP and the enemy's remaining HP together, and then divides it by 2. Here's Smogon's description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/pain_split

Basically, since Gengar will have 261 HP with a 31 IV in HP, and Chansey will have 704 HP with 252 EVs in HP (31 IV in HP as well), it takes those two, adds them together, then splits the sum evenly between each Pokemon. That means, Chansey will have 482 HP after Pain Split, Gengar will have full health; basically, Chansey loses 222 HP with Gengar at full health.

Take that a step further, and combine Pain Split with Substitute. 1 Substitute + Pain Split means Gengar is using Pain Split at 196 HP, and assume Chansey is at full health. Chansey loses 254 HP: (196 + 704)/2 = 900/2 = 450. 704-450 = 254.

No Substitutes (100% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~222 HP = Chansey down to ~68% HP
1 Substitute (75% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~255 HP = Chansey down to ~64% HP
2 Substitutes (50% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~287 HP = Chansey down to ~59% HP
3 Substitutes (25% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~320HP = Chansey down to ~55% HP

That is assuming a perfect scenario, where Gengar is always at 100%, 75%, 50%, or 25%. His HP can go even lower when he attacks with his Life Orb (-10%), so Pain Split is even more powerful, the closer his HP are to 0.

3 Substitutes + 1 Life Orb Attack (15% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100% HP) loses ~333 HP = Chansey down to ~52%

His Focus Blast with a Timid Nature also does between 30-36% to Chansey's HP, so if Chansey gets within that range, Focus Blast can finish her.

Also, keep in mind, a critical strike Focus Blast will also do 61%-72%. So, factor in Donphan's Stealth Rock, and you might have yourself a dead Chansey! After that, Latios will be free to sweep the other team, assuming they don't have another special wall.

[Razor Wind]

So, Pain Split adds your Pokemon's remaining HP and the enemy's remaining HP together, and then divides it by 2. Here's Smogon's description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/pain_split

Basically, since Gengar will have 261 HP with a 31 IV in HP, and Chansey will have 704 HP with 252 EVs in HP (31 IV in HP as well), it takes those two, adds them together, then splits the sum evenly between each Pokemon. That means, Chansey will have 482 HP after Pain Split, Gengar will have full health; basically, Chansey loses 222 HP with Gengar at full health.

Take that a step further, and combine Pain Split with Substitute. 1 Substitute + Pain Split means Gengar is using Pain Split at 196 HP, and assume Chansey is at full health. Chansey loses 254 HP: (196 + 704)/2 = 900/2 = 450. 704-450 = 254.

No Substitutes (100% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~222 HP = Chansey down to ~68% HP
1 Substitute (75% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~255 HP = Chansey down to ~64% HP
2 Substitutes (50% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~287 HP = Chansey down to ~59% HP
3 Substitutes (25% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~320HP = Chansey down to ~55% HP

That is assuming a perfect scenario, where Gengar is always at 100%, 75%, 50%, or 25%. His HP can go even lower when he attacks with his Life Orb (-10%), so Pain Split is even more powerful, the closer his HP are to 0.

3 Substitutes + 1 Life Orb Attack (15% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100% HP) loses ~333 HP = Chansey down to ~52%

His Focus Blast with a Timid Nature also does between 30-36% to Chansey's HP, so if Chansey gets within that range, Focus Blast can finish her.

Also, keep in mind, a critical strike Focus Blast will also do 61%-72%. So, factor in Donphan's Stealth Rock, and you might have yourself a dead Chansey! After that, Latios will be free to sweep the other team, assuming they don't have another special wall.

oohhh... Now I get it...
So I've finished what you suggested, does the team look okay now?

[Hayabusa]

O.O

Well, the last thing I might change is giving Jirachi Trick. Trick + a Choice Scarf means a wall like Chansey is stuck on one move (think if Chansey was stuck on Toxic). That would force Chansey out, and Chansey could no longer heal itself without switching out.

Trick + Choice Scarf is something that allows you to setup on walls often, and I've used it A LOT in gen 4 and in gen 5. It's a good strategy, IMO. The rest of it is looking good!

If you actually like those Pokemon, test out the team and post what your results were. Also post what threats your team couldn't handle (assuming you're using Shoddybattle or whatever it is now). Good luck!

[Razor Wind]

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Yea... Thanks but no thanks... I got none of that

O.O

Well, the last thing I might change is giving Jirachi Trick. Trick + a Choice Scarf means a wall like Chansey is stuck on one move (think if Chansey was stuck on Toxic). That would force Chansey out, and Chansey could no longer heal itself without switching out.

Trick + Choice Scarf is something that allows you to setup on walls often, and I've used it A LOT in gen 4 and in gen 5. It's a good strategy, IMO. The rest of it is looking good!

If you actually like those Pokemon, test out the team and post what your results were. Also post what threats your team couldn't handle (assuming you're using Shoddybattle or whatever it is now). Good luck!

Hmm, I might try out my current set of team first.

[Magicmonkey]

So, Pain Split adds your Pokemon's remaining HP and the enemy's remaining HP together, and then divides it by 2. Here's Smogon's description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/pain_split

Basically, since Gengar will have 261 HP with a 31 IV in HP, and Chansey will have 704 HP with 252 EVs in HP (31 IV in HP as well), it takes those two, adds them together, then splits the sum evenly between each Pokemon. That means, Chansey will have 482 HP after Pain Split, Gengar will have full health; basically, Chansey loses 222 HP with Gengar at full health.

Take that a step further, and combine Pain Split with Substitute. 1 Substitute + Pain Split means Gengar is using Pain Split at 196 HP, and assume Chansey is at full health. Chansey loses 254 HP: (196 + 704)/2 = 900/2 = 450. 704-450 = 254.

No Substitutes (100% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~222 HP = Chansey down to ~68% HP
1 Substitute (75% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~255 HP = Chansey down to ~64% HP
2 Substitutes (50% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~287 HP = Chansey down to ~59% HP
3 Substitutes (25% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~320HP = Chansey down to ~55% HP

That is assuming a perfect scenario, where Gengar is always at 100%, 75%, 50%, or 25%. His HP can go even lower when he attacks with his Life Orb (-10%), so Pain Split is even more powerful, the closer his HP are to 0.

3 Substitutes + 1 Life Orb Attack (15% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100% HP) loses ~333 HP = Chansey down to ~52%

His Focus Blast with a Timid Nature also does between 30-36% to Chansey's HP, so if Chansey gets within that range, Focus Blast can finish her.

Also, keep in mind, a critical strike Focus Blast will also do 61%-72%. So, factor in Donphan's Stealth Rock, and you might have yourself a dead Chansey! After that, Latios will be free to sweep the other team, assuming they don't have another special wall.

Another fun set I've seen to work against chansey/blissey is sub/toxic/painsplit/shadowball(or focus blast cause you can't toxic steels so better attacking coverage)
toxic has more PP than healbell, so you cna keep forcing it out to natural cure, so rack up SR damage on other, whilst everytime the pink blob comes if you replenish your HP and sub.