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Thread: Razor Wind's New OU Team

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Wind View Post
    Seem to make sense to me, I will think of it later. So what do you think about my other Pokemon and the overall team?
    I will get to the other Pokemon. I am confused as to who your 6 Pokemon are, though. Are the "new challengers" just subs in case your team has a flaw?

    For now, I'll give Machamp/Chansey/Latios/Gengar/Jirachi/Donphan my rate. I like this team a lot better than what you first posted, given you now have a defensive core (Donphan + Chansey), and other Pokemon with Life Orb now have access to Heals via Wish.

    I already gave Machamp a rate: he really needs Bullet Punch to help beat Focus Sash leads. Also, give him that EV spread I sent you, so that he can survive Azelf's Psychic (assuming it's not Modest). Use Leftovers if you pick Substitute as your 4th move. Lum Berry if you choose Protect or Stone Edge. This is where you get to choose according to who walls the rest of your team.

    Chansey's moveset and EVs are fine. Her moveset is also good. Ghost Pokemon with Taunt/Substitute will wreck her, though. That means, you need something to solidly take care of Ghost types (not just Gengar - your own Gengar takes care of him well enough). A pursuit user would be a good partner for this Chansey.

    Gengar and Latios work well together, since Gengar can take down Pokemon like Chansey, allowing Latios to sweep. Your Gengar, however does not have enough to take down Chansey, since he lacks Disable/Pain Split.

    This Gengar would be better for you, IMO.

    Gengar@Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    OR

    Gengar@Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    Basically, I understand why you used Psychic on Gengar, but it isn't necessary. Disable is there for Pokes like Conkeldurr, and Pain Split for Chansey.

    Now for your Latios:

    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
    - Psychic Psyshock, for bypassing special walls if their Defense is low
    - Thunderbolt An alternative would be HP Fire, for Scizor with Pursuit (he murders you otherwise). You still kill things like Skarmory, too.
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor

    --> If you use HP Fire, that means you can basically give Jirachi Trick in place of Fire Punch. Trickscarfing onto walls is a great way to setup your Pokemon, or to bypass those walls in general. Jirachi's full potential as a Choice Scarf user is unlocked in that case.

    And a note on the Nature for Jirachi: use Jolly. You need to be able to outrun +1 Speed (Dragon Dance used once) Haxorus, whose Mold Breaker EQ murders most of your team.

    So, use this Jirachi:

    Jirachi@Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: Same
    - Ice Punch
    - Iron Head
    - U-Turn/Thunderpunch
    - Trick

    Donphan is standard, and helps you with your lack of Physical Wall + Dedicated Rapid Spinner + SR user. So that's good now.

    So, your Choice now. Pursuit, to kill ghost types who Wall Chansey? Your Scizor would actually be a good candidate. The team is mostly fixed now, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicmonkey View Post
    I think your calc probably hasn't included paybacks power doubling effect, because that seems a very low ammount of damage for machamp vs azelf, azelf being very fragile. Payback can OHKO gengar and do 60% to azelf, seems unlikely. I would expect paybck to OHKO (focus sash) then bullet punch to do 1 HP.
    You're probably right about that. http://kalashnikov.pokecenter.ru/damage/ is the damage calculator I'm using; it does have an option for Payback, "Defender is slower than Attacker." But, that doesn't necessarily mean that Machamp has been hit first or not. So, that's with Azelf not using an attack first turn it seems like.

    Either way, Focus Sash Azelf will still have 1 HP left, meaning it's a 2HKO with Payback, Bullet Punch.

    Without Bullet Punch, you are KO'd by Azelf. That Machamp needs Bullet Punch (with those SpDef. EVs, too).
    Last edited by Hayabusa; 30th November 2012 at 1:23 AM.
    I don't play my DS anymore, I just battle on Shoddy as Hayabusa54/Testingstuff54.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    I will get to the other Pokemon. I am confused as to who your 6 Pokemon are, though. Are the "new challengers" just subs in case your team has a flaw?
    Yup, that is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    I already gave Machamp a rate: he really needs Bullet Punch to help beat Focus Sash leads. Also, give him that EV spread I sent you, so that he can survive Azelf's Psychic (assuming it's not Modest). Use Leftovers if you pick Substitute as your 4th move. Lum Berry if you choose Protect or Stone Edge. This is where you get to choose according to who walls the rest of your team.
    Yea, I saw the post, I just haven't edit it yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    Gengar and Latios work well together, since Gengar can take down Pokemon like Chansey, allowing Latios to sweep. Your Gengar, however does not have enough to take down Chansey, since he lacks Disable/Pain Split.

    This Gengar would be better for you, IMO.

    Gengar@Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    OR

    Gengar@Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    Basically, I understand why you used Psychic on Gengar, but it isn't necessary. Disable is there for Pokes like Conkeldurr, and Pain Split for Chansey.
    Can you please tell me how these two sets you provided can aid me in my team? Thx

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    Now for your Latios:

    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate (Ground moves are immuned)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
    - Psychic Psyshock, for bypassing special walls if their Defense is low
    - Thunderbolt An alternative would be HP Fire, for Scizor with Pursuit (he murders you otherwise). You still kill things like Skarmory, too.
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor
    --> If you use HP Fire, that means you can basically give Jirachi Trick in place of Fire Punch. Trickscarfing onto walls is a great way to setup your Pokemon, or to bypass those walls in general. Jirachi's full potential as a Choice Scarf user is unlocked in that case.
    So what you mean to say is changee Psychic into Psyshock? But HP Fire would make my Latios not at full speed due to the IV Speed of 30.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    And a note on the Nature for Jirachi: use Jolly. You need to be able to outrun +1 Speed (Dragon Dance used once) Haxorus, whose Mold Breaker EQ murders most of your team.

    So, use this Jirachi:

    Jirachi@Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: Same
    - Ice Punch
    - Iron Head
    - U-Turn/Thunderpunch
    - Trick
    I'm most probably going to go with U-Turn instead of Thunderbolt. But that causes me to need at least an electric move on Latios, which is why I don't think using HP fire is good on h. I think I will just run Fire Punch instead of Trick. Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    Donphan is standard, and helps you with your lack of Physical Wall + Dedicated Rapid Spinner + SR user. So that's good now.
    Ok then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    So, your Choice now. Pursuit, to kill ghost types who Wall Chansey? Your Scizor would actually be a good candidate. The team is mostly fixed now, though.
    But that will give me more weakness to Fire, I think I will go with the main 6 Pokemon. Is it okay?


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  3. #28
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    wow this seems like one of the of the most active team rates :P. on a different note, razor wind, do you have an art shop? Those banners are really good...
    Credit to Astral Shadow!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinjiaxinghu View Post
    wow this seems like one of the of the most active team rates :P. on a different note, razor wind, do you have an art shop? Those banners are really good...
    Thanks ^^
    And no, i don't
    I have no plans to opening an art shop at the moment, maybe I might in the future.


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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Wind View Post
    Yup, that is correct.


    Can you please tell me how these two sets you provided can aid me in my team? Thx
    I already did, if you read. Latios is walled by Chansey. Either of those Gengar movesets counter Chansey, thus allowing Latios to sweep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Wind View Post
    So what you mean to say is changee Psychic into Psyshock? But HP Fire would make my Latios not at full speed due to the IV Speed of 30.

    Yes. Psychic to Psyshock. IV Speed of 30 is only one point off. Also, there are 3 reasons for HP Fire. Bypassing bulky steel types like Ferrothorn/Jirachi/Skarmory, bypassing checks like Scizor (again, who would otherwise kill you) and getting A LOT of coverage via Surf + HP Fire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Wind View Post
    I'm most probably going to go with U-Turn instead of Thunderbolt
    You mean ThunderPUNCH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Wind View Post
    But that causes me to need at least an electric move on Latios, which is why I don't think using HP fire is good on h. I think I will just run Fire Punch instead of Trick. Thoughts?
    I already gave you my thoughts; T-Punch means you don't need Thunderbolt on Latios. HP Fire on Latios means you don't need Fire Punch on Jirachi. And HP Fire, as I said above already, is really nice on Latios for those 3 reasons I listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Wind View Post
    But that will give me more weakness to Fire, I think I will go with the main 6 Pokemon. Is it okay?
    Your team now is fine as is, I was just giving you more options if you wanted to change up your team.
    Last edited by Hayabusa; 30th November 2012 at 2:54 AM.
    I don't play my DS anymore, I just battle on Shoddy as Hayabusa54/Testingstuff54.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    I already did, if you read. Latios is walled by Chansey. Either of those Gengar movesets counter Chansey, thus allowing Latios to sweep.
    How does Pain Split work actually?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    Yes. Psychic to Psyshock. IV Speed of 30 is only one point off. Also, there are 3 reasons for HP Fire. Bypassing bulky steel types like Ferrothorn/Jirachi/Skarmory, bypassing checks like Scizor (again, who would otherwise kill you) and getting A LOT of coverage via Surf + HP Fire.
    O, now I get it

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    [ You mean ThunderPUNCH.
    Yea xD I was kinda in a hurry when i typed.

    I already gave you my thoughts; T-Punch means you don't need Thunderbolt on Latios. HP Fire on Latios means you don't need Fire Punch on Jirachi. And HP Fire, as I said above already, is really nice on Latios for those 3 reasons I listed.
    Ok then, I will switch the two's places.

    Your team now is fine as is, I was just giving you more options if you wanted to change up your team.
    Thx ^^
    Last edited by Razor Wind; 30th November 2012 at 3:30 AM.


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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Wind View Post
    How does Pain Split work actually?




    O, now I get it



    Yea xD I was kinda in a hurry when i typed.



    Ok then, I will switch the two's places.


    Thx ^^
    It takes HP of user and target, averages them, and changes the current HP of both to that level. If this HP value is higher than either Pokemon's maximum HP, then that Pokemon's HP is simply maximized.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
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  8. #33
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    But how can that help me deal with Chanseys? She's just gonna use Wish / Softboiled again to restore her HP...


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  9. #34
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    If you are very weakened, you can just Pain Split that health back. You have Focus Blast. Just use Pain Split Wisely. You also have Disable to force Blissey out. What can she do to your Gengar anyway?
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

    - TI, Ready For Whatever
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  10. #35
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    Yes I get it, but how much can Focus Blast possibly do to a Chansey? Besides, which Chansey would go against a Gengar?


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  11. #36
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    So, Pain Split adds your Pokemon's remaining HP and the enemy's remaining HP together, and then divides it by 2. Here's Smogon's description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/pain_split

    Basically, since Gengar will have 261 HP with a 31 IV in HP, and Chansey will have 704 HP with 252 EVs in HP (31 IV in HP as well), it takes those two, adds them together, then splits the sum evenly between each Pokemon. That means, Chansey will have 482 HP after Pain Split, Gengar will have full health; basically, Chansey loses 222 HP with Gengar at full health.

    Take that a step further, and combine Pain Split with Substitute. 1 Substitute + Pain Split means Gengar is using Pain Split at 196 HP, and assume Chansey is at full health. Chansey loses 254 HP: (196 + 704)/2 = 900/2 = 450. 704-450 = 254.

    No Substitutes (100% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~222 HP = Chansey down to ~68% HP
    1 Substitute (75% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~255 HP = Chansey down to ~64% HP
    2 Substitutes (50% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~287 HP = Chansey down to ~59% HP
    3 Substitutes (25% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~320HP = Chansey down to ~55% HP

    That is assuming a perfect scenario, where Gengar is always at 100%, 75%, 50%, or 25%. His HP can go even lower when he attacks with his Life Orb (-10%), so Pain Split is even more powerful, the closer his HP are to 0.

    3 Substitutes + 1 Life Orb Attack (15% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100% HP) loses ~333 HP = Chansey down to ~52%

    His Focus Blast with a Timid Nature also does between 30-36% to Chansey's HP, so if Chansey gets within that range, Focus Blast can finish her.

    Also, keep in mind, a critical strike Focus Blast will also do 61%-72%. So, factor in Donphan's Stealth Rock, and you might have yourself a dead Chansey! After that, Latios will be free to sweep the other team, assuming they don't have another special wall.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    So, Pain Split adds your Pokemon's remaining HP and the enemy's remaining HP together, and then divides it by 2. Here's Smogon's description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/pain_split

    Basically, since Gengar will have 261 HP with a 31 IV in HP, and Chansey will have 704 HP with 252 EVs in HP (31 IV in HP as well), it takes those two, adds them together, then splits the sum evenly between each Pokemon. That means, Chansey will have 482 HP after Pain Split, Gengar will have full health; basically, Chansey loses 222 HP with Gengar at full health.

    Take that a step further, and combine Pain Split with Substitute. 1 Substitute + Pain Split means Gengar is using Pain Split at 196 HP, and assume Chansey is at full health. Chansey loses 254 HP: (196 + 704)/2 = 900/2 = 450. 704-450 = 254.

    No Substitutes (100% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~222 HP = Chansey down to ~68% HP
    1 Substitute (75% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~255 HP = Chansey down to ~64% HP
    2 Substitutes (50% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~287 HP = Chansey down to ~59% HP
    3 Substitutes (25% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~320HP = Chansey down to ~55% HP

    That is assuming a perfect scenario, where Gengar is always at 100%, 75%, 50%, or 25%. His HP can go even lower when he attacks with his Life Orb (-10%), so Pain Split is even more powerful, the closer his HP are to 0.

    3 Substitutes + 1 Life Orb Attack (15% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100% HP) loses ~333 HP = Chansey down to ~52%

    His Focus Blast with a Timid Nature also does between 30-36% to Chansey's HP, so if Chansey gets within that range, Focus Blast can finish her.

    Also, keep in mind, a critical strike Focus Blast will also do 61%-72%. So, factor in Donphan's Stealth Rock, and you might have yourself a dead Chansey! After that, Latios will be free to sweep the other team, assuming they don't have another special wall.

    oohhh... Now I get it...
    So I've finished what you suggested, does the team look okay now?


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  13. #38
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    O.O

    Well, the last thing I might change is giving Jirachi Trick. Trick + a Choice Scarf means a wall like Chansey is stuck on one move (think if Chansey was stuck on Toxic). That would force Chansey out, and Chansey could no longer heal itself without switching out.

    Trick + Choice Scarf is something that allows you to setup on walls often, and I've used it A LOT in gen 4 and in gen 5. It's a good strategy, IMO. The rest of it is looking good!

    If you actually like those Pokemon, test out the team and post what your results were. Also post what threats your team couldn't handle (assuming you're using Shoddybattle or whatever it is now). Good luck!
    I don't play my DS anymore, I just battle on Shoddy as Hayabusa54/Testingstuff54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    O.O

    Well, the last thing I might change is giving Jirachi Trick. Trick + a Choice Scarf means a wall like Chansey is stuck on one move (think if Chansey was stuck on Toxic). That would force Chansey out, and Chansey could no longer heal itself without switching out.

    Trick + Choice Scarf is something that allows you to setup on walls often, and I've used it A LOT in gen 4 and in gen 5. It's a good strategy, IMO. The rest of it is looking good!

    If you actually like those Pokemon, test out the team and post what your results were. Also post what threats your team couldn't handle (assuming you're using Shoddybattle or whatever it is now). Good luck!
    Hmm, I might try out my current set of team first.


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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    So, Pain Split adds your Pokemon's remaining HP and the enemy's remaining HP together, and then divides it by 2. Here's Smogon's description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/pain_split

    Basically, since Gengar will have 261 HP with a 31 IV in HP, and Chansey will have 704 HP with 252 EVs in HP (31 IV in HP as well), it takes those two, adds them together, then splits the sum evenly between each Pokemon. That means, Chansey will have 482 HP after Pain Split, Gengar will have full health; basically, Chansey loses 222 HP with Gengar at full health.

    Take that a step further, and combine Pain Split with Substitute. 1 Substitute + Pain Split means Gengar is using Pain Split at 196 HP, and assume Chansey is at full health. Chansey loses 254 HP: (196 + 704)/2 = 900/2 = 450. 704-450 = 254.

    No Substitutes (100% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~222 HP = Chansey down to ~68% HP
    1 Substitute (75% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~255 HP = Chansey down to ~64% HP
    2 Substitutes (50% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~287 HP = Chansey down to ~59% HP
    3 Substitutes (25% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100%) loses ~320HP = Chansey down to ~55% HP

    That is assuming a perfect scenario, where Gengar is always at 100%, 75%, 50%, or 25%. His HP can go even lower when he attacks with his Life Orb (-10%), so Pain Split is even more powerful, the closer his HP are to 0.

    3 Substitutes + 1 Life Orb Attack (15% Gengar) - Chansey (at 100% HP) loses ~333 HP = Chansey down to ~52%

    His Focus Blast with a Timid Nature also does between 30-36% to Chansey's HP, so if Chansey gets within that range, Focus Blast can finish her.

    Also, keep in mind, a critical strike Focus Blast will also do 61%-72%. So, factor in Donphan's Stealth Rock, and you might have yourself a dead Chansey! After that, Latios will be free to sweep the other team, assuming they don't have another special wall.
    Another fun set I've seen to work against chansey/blissey is sub/toxic/painsplit/shadowball(or focus blast cause you can't toxic steels so better attacking coverage)
    toxic has more PP than healbell, so you cna keep forcing it out to natural cure, so rack up SR damage on other, whilst everytime the pink blob comes if you replenish your HP and sub.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicmonkey View Post
    Another fun set I've seen to work against chansey/blissey is sub/toxic/painsplit/shadowball(or focus blast cause you can't toxic steels so better attacking coverage)
    toxic has more PP than healbell, so you cna keep forcing it out to natural cure, so rack up SR damage on other, whilst everytime the pink blob comes if you replenish your HP and sub.
    I think I will just stick with my currect set of Gengar.


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    trick> fire punch on jirachi

    trick is much more useful in the long run, as currently, you are walled fairly easily and it forces switches quite often. fire punch isn't as good now, as the only things it was really used for was to kill genesect, and lucario. you dont really need to kill lucario, it seems covered. just beware of swords dance dual priority variants. o, and genesect is uber, so fire punch isnt needed as much anymore.


    EDIT: actually, change hp fire to trick on latios. keeping fire punch allows you to reliably beat scizor and lucario, especially sd variants of both. jirachi can tank the priority from both, and ko.

    also, stone edge>protect on machamp. protect is a terribad move imo, and im sure a certain user agrees with me. stone edge allows you to beat volcarona much more easily, as well as giving you something to do against gyarados.

    ill edit this with more later

    EDIT: why 16 SpD evs on machamp?
    Last edited by Klaus™; 1st December 2012 at 4:13 PM.

  18. #43
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    I think he got that set from Smogon I think which was designed for it to avoid being OHKOd by an Azelf's Psychic if I'm not mistaken which was a common lead in the DPP days.

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    "240 HP and 16 Special Defense EVs ensure that maximum Special Attack Naive Azelf leads won't OHKO Machamp with Psychic, while Machamp can beat Azelf through a combination of Payback and Bullet Punch."
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    well, newsflash, azelf is used in like, 1 in 60 battles. and leads arent used as often because of team preview.

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    I know that Leads aren't used much anymore. I was just backing up what Atrocious was saying.
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    Jirachi still can't beat +1 Haxorus (who has Mold Breaker + Earthquake --> Therefore, he murders almost all of your team). If he is to beat +1 Haxorus, he needs a Jolly Nature to outspeed a Haxorus with one Dragon Dance under its belt.

    I would definitely take Trick on him, too. But, some people (you may be one of these) would rather have a fast revenge killer rather than a Pokemon without its Choice Scarf.

    Azelf leads are not as common as they were in DPP, but if he takes Machamp as a lead, it's a situation he needs to be prepared for. 1/60 is an exaggeration IMO; they are still somewhat common (I see maybe 8/60, since people's battle experience from DPP is carrying over to BW, and they stick to DPP Pokes/movesets sometimes).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
    Azelf leads are not as common as they were in DPP, but if he takes Machamp as a lead, it's a situation he needs to be prepared for. 1/60 is an exaggeration IMO; they are still somewhat common (I see maybe 8/60, since people's battle experience from DPP is carrying over to BW, and they stick to DPP Pokes/movesets sometimes).
    lol?

    Global Usage: 1.89% (26674 Battles)
    Lead Usage

    1.15%

    of that 1.15%, only 9.82% actually carried psychic. so, roughly 0.11-0.12% of all battles, there will be a lead azelf that carries psychic. its just not worth it.

    most azelf anyway are setting up dual screens, so reflect first, and then you fail to 2hko it before its job is done. typically, its moveset is this:

    -Light screen
    -Reflect
    -U-turn
    -Explosion/Stealth rock

    very rarely, its a scarved version, and scarved versions are usually

    -Fire punch
    -ice punch
    -u-turn
    -zen headbutt

    but its outclassed by jirachi, who has iron head to beat counters. so if they use a scarved version, they probably are new to b/w, in which case there's really no reason to prepare when you can run circles around them, naked.

    your argument is invalid

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Crazy Russian™ View Post
    lol?

    Global Usage: 1.89% (26674 Battles)
    Lead Usage

    1.15%

    of that 1.15%, only 9.82% actually carried psychic. so, roughly 0.11-0.12% of all battles, there will be a lead azelf that carries psychic. its just not worth it.

    most azelf anyway are setting up dual screens, so reflect first, and then you fail to 2hko it before its job is done. typically, its moveset is this:

    -Light screen
    -Reflect
    -U-turn
    -Explosion/Stealth rock

    very rarely, its a scarved version, and scarved versions are usually

    -Fire punch
    -ice punch
    -u-turn
    -zen headbutt

    but its outclassed by jirachi, who has iron head to beat counters. so if they use a scarved version, they probably are new to b/w, in which case there's really no reason to prepare when you can run circles around them, naked.

    your argument is invalid
    That pro usage statistics going to work. Good work haha. Honestly most Azelfs I see are suicide lead variations. Just run 252/252/4 on Machamp.

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    Wow, I didn't expect this many replies o.O

    Personally, I tried the set Hayabusa recommended and also the 252/252/4 set on PO. Apparently the Hayubusa's set works better for me (Just my opinion though)


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