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Thread: Pokémon Best Wishes Series 2 Episode N [FIRST POST]

  1. #4176
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    Quote Originally Posted by ludiloco View Post
    ...and here I thought this thread was made to avoid negative comments about Charizard.

    I know they're in all their rights to post here but come on!
    I think Official Charizard Thread means you can post whatever you want about Charizard just not completely bash him. Lots of people were negative and didn't even think it was Ash's and that's what kept this discussion going for the first 30 pages. Your post is completely useless as is this one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charizard-Fan View Post
    Agreed. And I doubt Ash would've been able to beat Blaine without Charizard.
    Pretty much a given.

    Pikachu got destroyed by Magmar
    Squirtle was taken out by 1 firespin by Ninetails (who is presumably weaker then Magmar)

    All he had left was Bulbasaur and Pidgeotto, both of which I seriously doubt could stand up to Magmar.
    Also seriously doubt Krabby, Tauros or Muk could have done any better. So yeah, without Charizard there is no way Ash was beating Magmar at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Charizard costing Ash the Kanto League never bothered me either. It may have been anti-climatic, but it was a perfectly acceptable, reasonable and believable way for Ash to lose.

    It was unique aswell.
    It was actually a great choice, it showed Ash was still inexperienced and that using a disobedient Pokemon comes at a cost and shouldn't happen in tournaments. Ash took a rather stupid gamble which cost him the match.
    He should have Oaked Charizard since he couldn't use him in the League anyway and had Kingler and Tauros/Muk with him. His inexperience, poor planning and cocky attitude cost him dearly. Squirtle being KO'd by Sleep powder was downright pathetic and poor writing though.

    I wish the writers had kept doing this (such as with Iris Dragonite) to show that its a very stupid idea to use a Pokemon that doesn't listen and that there are consequences. These type of battles are to determine the most skilled trainer, winning them with disobedient Pokemon completely destroys the purpose of a tournament (and makes you question the purpose of the referees). Using them in regular battles is fine, but Tournaments & Competitions shouldn't be allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    I know you want Dawn to be a main character again but please explain to me how Charizard would come back through Dawn.
    Dawn was heading to Johto, when we last saw her.

    Not that I agree with the idea, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    Dawn was heading to Johto, when we last saw her.

    Not that I agree with the idea, however.
    But Dawn never met Charizard, so neither know each other
    Dawn doesn't know where the Charicific Valley is
    Charizard doesn't know Dawn and has no reason to fly her to Unova

    May left for Johto aswell and has met Charizard, so if anyone would come flying back on his back it would be her (or Brock/Misty)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    I fail to see why in the cases of battle, should it end uniquely would be a good thing.

    I'm all for unique subjects, but I think it depends on the situation.

    Personally a battle without any real conclusion is a bad battle, no matter how unique.

    I would've wanted Ash to lose the Indigo League, because his opponent was superior, NOT because his opponent was obviously inferior, but only lost because of a B.S. way as well as the result of a "forced forfeit" because Charizard refused to battle.

    I don't mind Charizard refusing a battle, costing Ash a match-up, but not at cost of the entire Pokémon Battle thus resulting in a forced forfeit.
    Hmm, i've really tried to think of a suitable way to reply to this dman, but I really can't. I think it's just down to opinion, because I really don't mind seeing as it's a realistic approach with major consequences. In fact, PAndrews makes a very good point (i'm replying below this quote to him), it's pretty much how I view it aswell.

    I would've been fine had Sparky beat Charizard, after all Sparky did have a type advantage. And as strong as Charizard was at that time, I don't believe it to be unbeatable.
    Charizard definetly wasn't unbeatable, but if Sparky defeated him i'd be raging as much as you do about Charizard disobeying.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    It was actually a great choice, it showed Ash was still inexperienced and that using a disobedient Pokemon comes at a cost and shouldn't happen in tournaments. Ash took a rather stupid gamble which cost him the match.
    He should have Oaked Charizard since he couldn't use him in the League anyway and had Kingler and Tauros/Muk with him. His inexperience, poor planning and cocky attitude cost him dearly. Squirtle being KO'd by Sleep powder was downright pathetic and poor writing though.
    I agree with this so much, and it's exactly why i'm fine with the situation. Not just this though, but I actually enjoyed seeing it happen. Like I said before, it was unique to happen and had major consequences.

    As for the rest of the battle, it definetly could have been better. It was rushed and ridiculous (aka sleep powder knockout).

    I wish the writers had kept doing this (such as with Iris Dragonite) to show that its a very stupid idea to use a Pokemon that doesn't listen and that there are consequences. These type of battles are to determine the most skilled trainer, winning them with disobedient Pokemon completely destroys the purpose of a tournament (and makes you question the purpose of the referees). Using them in regular battles is fine, but Tournaments & Competitions shouldn't be allowed.
    I agree once again, I wish they kept doing stuff like this. Not all of the time, maybe once every saga. It definetly should have happened to Iris in the Juniour Cup for sure. Iris didn't win, but she won two major battles because of a disobedient Pokemon which definetly wasn't deserved.

    PAndrews, thankyou for making a post that I can agree with 100%.

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    i dont know if any of these could happen but
    charizard can just fly there and take a rest i dont know y people think this cant happen
    liza can transfer charizard to ash using the pc system (dont know who has charizards pokeball)

    where did people get the idea ash was going to capture/use zekrom
    98% of fans believe that Ash's Oshawott will not evolve. If you are part of the 2% that believes in Samurott, copy and paste this into your sig and screw the haters!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Uzamaki View Post
    i dont know if any of these could happen but
    charizard can just fly there and take a rest i dont know y people think this cant happen
    liza can transfer charizard to ash using the pc system (dont know who has charizards pokeball)

    where did people get the idea ash was going to capture/use zekrom
    I think some people are saying that because Ash met Zekrom on the first episode of Best Wishes.

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    Yeah, because Ash met Zekrom in the first episode just like the previews have implied N met Reshiram.

    It's reflecting on the B/W games massively, there's no reason to think the idea is crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Yeah, because Ash met Zekrom in the first episode just like the previews have implied N met Reshiram.

    It's reflecting on the B/W games massively, there's no reason to think the idea is crazy.
    Although the opening seems to imply Ghetsis is controlling Reshiram... with Kyurem and Zekrom no where to be found
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Although the opening seems to imply Ghetsis is controlling Reshiram... with Kyurem and Zekrom no where to be found
    I agree completely, it seems that Reshiram will go out of control and Charizard will save the day.

    I'm just saying that people who speculate Ash/Zekrom vs N/Reshiram have a good reason to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I agree completely, it seems that Reshiram will go out of control and Charizard will save the day.

    I'm just saying that people who speculate Ash/Zekrom vs N/Reshiram have a good reason to do so.
    I was in that boat for a while, but I'm not sure anymore. To be honest, Charizard better not beat Reshiram or something, cause it out ranks in strength and importance the strongest opponent Charizard beat (Articuno).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I was in that boat for a while, but I'm not sure anymore. To be honest, Charizard better not beat Reshiram or something, cause it out ranks in strength and importance the strongest opponent Charizard beat (Articuno).
    I agree. I think it's just too much for Charizard to beat Reshiram. I mean... Reshiram should be on the same level with Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Zekrom. So... I think it wouldn't be logical if Charizard beat him. But it would be nice if Charizard battle Reshiram and lose after putting up a good fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas MV View Post
    I agree. I think it's just too much for Charizard to beat Reshiram. I mean... Reshiram should be on the same level with Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Zekrom. So... I think it wouldn't be logical if Charizard beat him. But it would be nice if Charizard battle Reshiram and lose after putting up a good fight.
    That's the fair assumption I come too. Now if it's a Charizard/Dragonite tag team... I might just be able to turn the other cheek, but that's pushing it given how much trouble Dragonite had with just Landorus-T forme, let alone all three Genie's :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    But Dawn never met Charizard, so neither know each other
    Dawn doesn't know where the Charicific Valley is
    Charizard doesn't know Dawn and has no reason to fly her to Unova
    They may have never met, but that doesn't mean Dawn doesn't know who Charizard is. I'm sure Dawn heard of Charizard, when Ash was bringing out all his Pokémon in the Sinnoh League, I'm sure the mention of Charizard was in there, and where Charizard was the Charicific Valley which is in Johto.

    Even if we can't make that assumption, there could many reasons why Dawn could want to go to the Charcific Valley, after all, it's not like the valley is a secret that Ash, Brock and Misty just happened upon, it could actually be a tourist spot. And even if it's not, Dawn could just be in the right place at the right time.

    And all it could take is a mention of Ash, somewhere and that could get the attention of Liza and/or Charizard.

    Although I suppose you could argue that Charizard has no reason to trust Dawn, and so on and so forth, but my point is: Dawn could possibly bring Charizard to Unova (maybe even more in a indirect way, because of the Ash's past traveling companions she's the only one who knows where Ash is (or at least where Ash was last seen).

    Now I like said, I don't see it as a possibility, but it could happen. There is at least some set-up with it possibly being Dawn.

    Misty/Brock/Misty just seem very unlikely, seeing as how they'd have to know where Ash was to bring Charizard over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas MV View Post
    I agree. I think it's just too much for Charizard to beat Reshiram. I mean... Reshiram should be on the same level with Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Zekrom. So... I think it wouldn't be logical if Charizard beat him. But it would be nice if Charizard battle Reshiram and lose after putting up a good fight.
    I don't think it would be impossible for Charizard to have some serious fight in it, that if Reshiram isn't normal that Charizard couldn't snap Reshiram out of whatever is potentially wrong with it.

    Point: Charizard doesn't have to knock it out, to win.
    Last edited by dman_dustin; 22nd January 2013 at 2:42 AM.
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    [/QUOTE]I don't think it would be impossible for Charizard to have some serious fight in it, that if Reshiram isn't normal that Charizard couldn't snap Reshiram out of whatever is potentially wrong with it.

    Point: Charizard doesn't have to knock it out, to win.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I agree that Charizard can have a serious fight with Reshiram. Maybe like the one he had with Entei, although he lost, that battle was pretty even. And it could be that Reshiram is being controlled by Ghetsis and doesn't know what he is doing, so Charizard can snap him out of that without having to beat him.
    Another possible scenario would be if the writters make Reshiram weaker than we suppose it is. Not on the same level of Dialga, Palkia and Giratina, but in the level of the Regis, the Kami trio, or maybe Lugia, etc. I was just saying that it would be hard for Charizard to beat Reshiram IF he is on the same level with Giratina, Palkia and Dialga. But in another case, it could win.
    Anyway, I think Charizard vs Reshiram battle won't have a winner. It will probably be a battle head to head where either Charizard succes in snaping out of Ghetsis control / buy time for Ash an Co. to do something, or Dragonite, Pikachu, Pansage, etc battle Reshiram too and manage to stop him. I would prefer the first option myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas MV View Post

    Yes, I agree that Charizard can have a serious fight with Reshiram. Maybe like the one he had with Entei, although he lost, that battle was pretty even. And it could be that Reshiram is being controlled by Ghetsis and doesn't know what he is doing, so Charizard can snap him out of that without having to beat him.
    Another possible scenario would be if the writters make Reshiram weaker than we suppose it is. Not on the same level of Dialga, Palkia and Giratina, but in the level of the Regis, the Kami trio, or maybe Lugia, etc. I was just saying that it would be hard for Charizard to beat Reshiram IF he is on the same level with Giratina, Palkia and Dialga. But in another case, it could win.
    Anyway, I think Charizard vs Reshiram battle won't have a winner. It will probably be a battle head to head where either Charizard succes in snaping out of Ghetsis control / buy time for Ash an Co. to do something, or Dragonite, Pikachu, Pansage, etc battle Reshiram too and manage to stop him. I would prefer the first option myself.
    I see what you're saying, but I highly doubt that the writers would lower Reshiram's power to that of the Regis. The Regis were beatable, but Reshiram is a different story, I know it can be beat, but it's on a different level than the Regis. But. I like your idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I was in that boat for a while, but I'm not sure anymore. To be honest, Charizard better not beat Reshiram or something, cause it out ranks in strength and importance the strongest opponent Charizard beat (Articuno).
    If Reshiram is controlled, he can't really use all his strength. That could logically make him weaker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Kitsune Yoko Kurama View Post
    I see what you're saying, but I highly doubt that the writers would lower Reshiram's power to that of the Regis. The Regis were beatable, but Reshiram is a different story, I know it can be beat, but it's on a different level than the Regis. But. I like your idea.
    And it wouldn't be the first time the anime doesn't follow logic. We got:

    Charizard lose vs Dusclops
    Gible win vs Dusknoir

    Dragonite lose vs Druddigon
    Eevee win vs Druddigon

    And there are more things like that, so... it isn't impossible that they lower Reshiram's power to make it beatable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas MV View Post
    And it wouldn't be the first time the anime doesn't follow logic. We got:

    Charizard lose vs Dusclops
    Gible win vs Dusknoir

    Dragonite lose vs Druddigon
    Eevee win vs Druddigon

    And there are more things like that, so... it isn't impossible that they lower Reshiram's power to make it beatable.
    Hmm, there is a difference between trainers.

    Well except Charizard and Gible, HOWEVER their opposing Pokémon's trainer are different.

    But I can see your point.
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    It's pretty much like the third movie. Obviously a real Entei and a fake Entei aren't gonna have the same power level. The same could be here. After all, we don't yet know anything about the Reshiram that Ghetis is controlling. It could be a fake.
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    If the Reshiram is real, I don't think Charizard would be the one to beat it. It will put up a good fight but Zekrom will probably be the one to defeat Reshiram.

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    charizard, will probably put up a good fight, but he won't defeat it. The kami trio were extremely strong, so imagine how powerful reshiram is. I'm not saying i don't want charizard to win, but he probably won't. Zekrom will most likely battle it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    That's the fair assumption I come too. Now if it's a Charizard/Dragonite tag team... I might just be able to turn the other cheek, but that's pushing it given how much trouble Dragonite had with just Landorus-T forme, let alone all three Genie's :P
    Dragonite is weaker then Krookodile though, he was pretty much owned in that battle (to the point he closed his eyes and turned away in fear when Krookodile came charging).
    Krookodile is nowhere near Charizard in terms of strength, so Dragonite shouldn't be close either. Logically Dragonite should be significantly weaker then Charizard (along with Ash's entire Unova team) and more of a liability in a battle of on that level.

    Charizard also has a minor advantage vs Reshiram, since Charziard knows dragon type moves but isn't weak to them (like Dragonite). The intro also seems to hype up Charizard vs Reshiram as the main event. If Dragonite was joining, he'd be there next to him (why wouldn't they promote the Kanto Dragon Tag Team). And if Dragonite were to join, then its a given Unfeazent will join and Pikachu and Pansage will be on the backs of fliers. Prefer an epic one on one between Charizard and Reshiram (win or lose)

    This battle will probably be similar to the Genie battle. Ash and Charizard fight while Iris and Cilan try to free Reshiram from Ghetsis control. So Ash doesn't need to actually win, just put up a fight long enough.
    Or Ash loses badly and has to search for Zekrom for round 2 (making that his goal for this saga).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas MV View Post
    And it wouldn't be the first time the anime doesn't follow logic. We got:

    Charizard lose vs Dusclops
    Gible win vs Dusknoir

    Dragonite lose vs Druddigon
    Eevee win vs Druddigon

    And there are more things like that, so... it isn't impossible that they lower Reshiram's power to make it beatable.
    You can't really compare a Dusknoir owned by some trainer to a Dusclops owned by a guy who caught 3 legendaries though.
    Brandon defeated and caught Regirock, Regice and Registeel, so its a fair assumption that his remaining normal Pokemon were on a similar level as though legendaries (how else did he beat and capture them).

    Levels might not be mentioned, but they are clearly present. Just look at Charizard, the weakest Charizard in the valley owned him when he first arrived and he could barely carry Ash while flying, yet when he returned he had grown into the strongest there and was flying circles around Entei with Ash on his back. Or Pignite destroying Emboar in battle, or the amount of Raichu's that Pikachu has beaten. So though never mentioned, levels are clearly present and an evolved Pokemon isn't automatically stronger then its pre-evolved form

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    Dragonite is weaker then Krookodile though, he was pretty much owned in that battle (to the point he closed his eyes and turned away in fear when Krookodile came charging).
    Krookodile is nowhere near Charizard in terms of strength, so Dragonite shouldn't be close either. Logically Dragonite should be significantly weaker then Charizard (along with Ash's entire Unova team) and more of a liability in a battle of on that level.

    Charizard also has a minor advantage vs Reshiram, since Charziard knows dragon type moves but isn't weak to them (like Dragonite). The intro also seems to hype up Charizard vs Reshiram as the main event. If Dragonite was joining, he'd be there next to him (why wouldn't they promote the Kanto Dragon Tag Team). And if Dragonite were to join, then its a given Unfeazent will join and Pikachu and Pansage will be on the backs of fliers. Prefer an epic one on one between Charizard and Reshiram (win or lose)

    This battle will probably be similar to the Genie battle. Ash and Charizard fight while Iris and Cilan try to free Reshiram from Ghetsis control. So Ash doesn't need to actually win, just put up a fight long enough.
    Or Ash loses badly and has to search for Zekrom for round 2 (making that his goal for this saga).



    You can't really compare a Dusknoir owned by some trainer to a Dusclops owned by a guy who caught 3 legendaries though.
    Brandon defeated and caught Regirock, Regice and Registeel, so its a fair assumption that his remaining normal Pokemon were on a similar level as though legendaries (how else did he beat and capture them).

    Levels might not be mentioned, but they are clearly present. Just look at Charizard, the weakest Charizard in the valley owned him when he first arrived and he could barely carry Ash while flying, yet when he returned he had grown into the strongest there and was flying circles around Entei with Ash on his back. Or Pignite destroying Emboar in battle, or the amount of Raichu's that Pikachu has beaten. So though never mentioned, levels are clearly present and an evolved Pokemon isn't automatically stronger then its pre-evolved form
    I totally prefer a one on one between Charizard and Reshiram too. And I agree he is way stronger than Ash's Unova team and significantly stronger then Dragonite.

    On the other hand, I have to agree with you on the Dusclops/Dusknoir thing. Conway isn't Brandon. And another thing that I forgot when I comment that, is that the Charizard vs Dusclops battle was in Gen 3. When Dusclops had no evolution. So it was as powerfull as a full evolved pokemon would be. And it's trainer was probably the strongest trainer Ash ever battle. So... I basically disagree with my previous post XD.
    Anyway, the point on my comment wasn't that, but to mention that the anime doesn't follow the logic every time, and that it could be possible that they lowered Reshiram's power somehow, so Charizard can actually beat him.
    I would love to see Charizard vs Reshiram battle, even if Reshiram has his full power and defeat Charizard, as long as Charizard put up a good fight, it would be enjoyable.

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    When do you guys think Charizard will come in? Do you think will get some flashbacks of him? How Ash caught him such?
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