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Thread: Pirating of Music and other Digital Media

  1. #101
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    I only pirate with good intentions. I like to sample before spending money, especially since Asian pop music tends to be upwards of 50 bucks for one CD. I plan to legally obtain things, and buy what I can afford at the time, but I can't always do that since I'm not working. Once I have a job I really do want to go back and purchase everything I pirated that I liked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sogeking View Post
    You forget this doesn't just apply to the rich. Plus do you think everyone at a huge company makes the big bucks? What about independent studios or some company that is just starting out?
    Small acts often can achieve recognition via piracy (cf. The Pirate Bay's promotions -- operative word being "can," of course, and other methods would be much better) and a fair number of people do eventually go on to buy the music, as though it were an extended form of "borrowing it from your friends."

    Then again, there are also those people who think they're entitled to everything they want, because this is the DIGITAL AGE and FREEDOM OF INFORMATION. These people probably also wax the dolphin to Julian Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by NintendoCoke View Post
    So, because somebody doesn't do as much work as another person means they should have their work copied and spread around the internet for free? Isn't this what happened to Project Zomboid?
    I do agree that the industry is in dire need of severe reforms, but piracy isn't the way to go about pointing that out. In fact, that's a good way to get nothing done and cause regular people who bear no threat to the industries to lose rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NintendoCoke View Post
    So, because somebody doesn't do as much work as another person means they should have their work copied and spread around the internet for free?
    Duh. Did you not read the post? Or are you having difficulty understanding basic sentences? And idek wtf project zomboid is, so obviously it wasn't pirated well enough. So long as nobody makes profit out of the pirated material, why the hell is it any of your business? Just saying piracy is a good thing, otherwise I wouldn't know the name of half the bands I listen to, nor would I buy any of their albums. Think of it as free advertisement that both parties can benefit from, mmmk? Fyi, the people who make money from the albums are the record dealers and the big business companies responsible for the album. The singers make most of their money via tours and sponsorships, that's why those laws are put in place. No one gives a flying hoot about the singers, it's all to protect corporate interest. And you'd be dumb as hell to not realize that.
    Last edited by waffle_x_v; 24th February 2013 at 9:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waffle_x_v View Post
    Duh. Did you not read the post? Or are you having difficulty understanding basic sentences? And idek wtf project zomboid is, so obviously it wasn't pirated well enough. So long as nobody makes profit out of the pirated material, why the hell is it any of your business? Just saying piracy is a good thing, otherwise I wouldn't know the name of half the bands I listen to, nor would I buy any of their albums. Think of it as free advertisement that both parties can benefit from, mmmk? Fyi, the people who make money from the albums are the record dealers and the big business companies responsible for the album. The singers make most of their money via tours and sponsorships, that's why those laws are put in place. No one gives a flying hoot about the singers, it's all to protect corporate interest. And you'd be dumb as hell to not realize that.
    So much wrong here. Piracy isnt a good thing in its entirety. Those record dealers and big business companies are the ones who made the album. And without them making profit you dont get the new albums you want. The fact that you know half the bands from piracy is just your own plain ignorance. Both parties dont 'benefit' either because theres no exact contract from piracy. Not everyone thinks like you do that, if an artist is good I have to buy their album. They just take it and run. Qwaa


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    Quote Originally Posted by Swagsire View Post
    So much wrong here. Piracy isnt a good thing in its entirety. Those record dealers and big business companies are the ones who made the album. And without them making profit you dont get the new albums you want. The fact that you know half the bands from piracy is just your own plain ignorance. Both parties dont 'benefit' either because theres no exact contract from piracy. Not everyone thinks like you do that, if an artist is good I have to buy their album. They just take it and run. Qwaa

    Lmao do you understand half the words you're saying? "you didn't know about them b/c of your own ignorance??" Wtf, pirating is free advertisement, whether you like it or not, that's a FACT. The only ignorant person is you. Those record dealers and big business companies are the ones making the laws and I'm not going to bow down to them. You can suck their c/ck if you want to, but don't expect others to do the same. Nothing is inherently good or bad, try and understand that. The world isn't your favorite child hood fairy tail. Look at the smart brat here, spouting words he doesn't know.
    Last edited by waffle_x_v; 24th February 2013 at 10:11 PM.

  6. #106
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    lol what? Pirating is not free advertisement. Most people who illegally download songs/games/whatever, aren't going to go out and inform the world that they did so. Have fun trying to play the internet tough guy though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jb View Post
    lol what? Pirating is not free advertisement. Most people who illegally download songs/games/whatever, aren't going to go out and inform the world that they did so. Have fun trying to play the internet tough guy though.


    You do realize that any advertising it cold provide doesn't matter about how the item is obtained but the contents thereof? Yes, there are better ways of finding that out, but your argument is still completely and utterly irrelevant. No, people aren't going to tell their friends they pirated Target Earth or whatever (except when they do), but they might very well tell them what it's like, which is where the advertisement comes in.

    Of course there are better ways to do it, so don't bother saying that. That's obvious. A lot of that, though, involves availability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jb View Post
    lol what? Pirating is not free advertisement. Most people who illegally download songs/games/whatever, aren't going to go out and inform the world that they did so. Have fun trying to play the internet tough guy though.
    LOL read carefully next time. Seriously, are you blind? People mention the music or movies they saw. No one mentions that they pirate they just mention what they got form it. That is free advertisement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waffle_x_v View Post
    LOL read carefully next time. Seriously, are you blind? People mention the music or movies they saw. No one mentions that they pirate they just mention what they got form it. That is free advertisement.
    By that logic that means those people who hear about it will also pirate it, and the company gets no money at all. You might want to avoid going down the free advertisement route, because by your logic what's stopping everyone else from also pirating it? There's giving out free samples but there's also giving the key to the store and saying "Take what you want"

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    Well as a diehard music fan who is absolutely broke, I laugh at the notion of paying for it. Though I file share which is another entity entirely.

    That being said, it has become a big problem, but more with other forms of media besides music, and really it isn't even going to go away. Nevertheless businesses to largely over-exaggerate its impact on profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post
    You do realize that any advertising it cold provide doesn't matter about how the item is obtained but the contents thereof? Yes, there are better ways of finding that out, but your argument is still completely and utterly irrelevant. No, people aren't going to tell their friends they pirated Target Earth or whatever (except when they do), but they might very well tell them what it's like, which is where the advertisement comes in.
    That content hardly matters when everyone starts to pirate the material.

    Now, if the artist/whatever puts out free material online and then people start sharing it around, then that's a different story. But sharing newly released albums that no one but music enthusiasts will buy because you can torrent it hardly counts as free advertising. The lost sales from people not buying it highly outweigh any cost that would go into advertising. Internet Service Providers make millions off of disturbing illegal content which none go back to the artist.

    Regardless of that, if someone shares a song, the receiver will most likely just D/L it and keep it moving. Not everyone, or probably a good amount are willing to venture into an artist's music history and start listening/buying everything. If they haven't heard of the person until now, chances are there's a torrent of the album out there. They're not going to run out and buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    Well as a diehard music fan who is absolutely broke, I laugh at the notion of paying for it. Though I file share which is another entity entirely.
    i don't think you can really call yourself a diehard fan if you are completely unwilling to financially support an artist.
    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    Nevertheless businesses to largely over-exaggerate its impact on profit.
    tell that to smaller labels who put out high quality releases that no one buys because they don't want to have to pay. it means good bands are losing their labels and can't release more material. i do use the whole "try before you buy" aspect of piracy, but i have a collection of over 200 CDs and 150 records. i understand not everyone can devote a good chunk of money to collecting music, but surely everyone can afford to buy a few CDs a year (or digital downloads) to ensure their favourite bands or musicians can build a proper career with their art.
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  13. #113
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    Ok first off:

    1. Trying out music. Is that the best excuse you can come up with. With things like Amazon, youtube, and Pandora, the thing of pirating to find music is at best the most idiotic statement used on this forum. It's laughable. It's an excuse for poor behavior.

    2. Just because someone is in the music business does not make them rich. Small labels go dollar to dollar and so on. Don't get that confused.

    3. The artist/singers make money off every dollar sold. It is called royalties. Don't make blanket statements without acknowledging facts.

    4. On top of that, has anyone acknowledged the songwriters. They get paid on the songs sales and how well it sold. Lower profits means less jobs for them. Don't even get me started on the band members/musicians.

    5. Them not getting paid hurts the economy. People bag on the rich all the time but don't consider that the fact they are buying stuff gets jobs. Say Justin Bieber went and bought himself an E-class Mercedes. The people who work at the dealership get paid because of this. As do the people that transported it on the train, as do the people who made it in Alabama. That helps jobs, which could potentially help you. Money just always continues to switch hands.

    6. When YOU don't buy the music (already stated in this thread that there is an average of 32 million pirated songs a day. Which is 1/10 of the population of the United States), You contribute to the album failing, thus You contribute to about 32-50 people out of jobs.

    7. How can you be a diehard music fan when you won't contribute to the people who make music.

    8. For the people who love other cultures music, ask your library to buy it for you. That way, at least someone paid for the music you're about to rip.

    9. Pirating is not free advertisement. What you say to your friend in normal conversation is just normal conversation.

    10. the notion that because project zomboid wasn't pirated enough is why you don't know what it is is ludicrous. Did you ever comprehend that it could have been pirated so much that the producers couldn't afford advertisement to see what it is.

    11. Information for all just so you all know that the maximum penalty for pirated items in the United States is $10000 dollar fine for every item stolen as well as up to 10 years in jail. Also because it is loosely enforced does not mean people are treated like this. There have already been nine people arrested for piracy in Tennessee this year, with one women getting a 150k fine and 3 years in jail time. (She is a mother mind you.) If you are going to do it, don't get caught. It is a federal offense, so most of your rights as a citizen would be stripped.

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  14. #114
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    A lot of people seem unaware that musicians get most of their income via touring.

    Pirating in that sense can be very helpful to an artist.

    The problem comes with record labels. If record labels continue to get cut out of profit/revenue by piracy, they have less incentive to sign bands (and there will probably be as a result fewer record companies). This theoretically makes it harder for bands to find funding/promoters for their work.

    With the rise of the internet though, and the way in which TV shows (especially reality shows) work nowadays, there are many ways for artists to get noticed without record labels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    A lot of people seem unaware that musicians get most of their income via touring.

    Pirating in that sense can be very helpful to an artist.
    I disagree. If someone is going to pirate an album instead of paying the $16.99 for it, then they are not going to buy concert/touring tickets for a much higher price. I think it can be assumed that most people who go to concerts/tours have at least bought something the artist put out.

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    the thing with piracy is that it's so easy that music is seen by a lot of people as a disposable form of entertainment. people can download an album or an entire discography for free, and if they listen to songs that don't click immediately a lot of people are just going to be like "oh well" and delete a whole artist's output on the basis that they don't like 3 songs right away. certainly, for me to go to a band's show, i have to love their output and it has happened before where i initially dismiss an artist and skip their shows only to come back to their material later on and find out i actually really like it (and then proceed to buy their releases)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jb View Post
    That content hardly matters when everyone starts to pirate the material.
    Because piracy has or ever will reach that point, especially since record labels (and by and large it's record labels and recording industry associations who care, not artists, who usually get about 30% of the sales of a CD to split amongst all of their constituent members and, as far as I know, other staff who actually worked on the CD) lose their mind over even one person engaging in piracy.

    Now, if the artist/whatever puts out free material online and then people start sharing it around, then that's a different story. But sharing newly released albums that no one but music enthusiasts will buy because you can torrent it hardly counts as free advertising. The lost sales from people not buying it highly outweigh any cost that would go into advertising.
    The assumption is that all people who pirate don't buy what they've "stolen." This couldn't be further from the truth. See above how a lot of people have referred to it as a try-before-you-buy thing or extended loaning.

    Or are you only referring to what you do?

    Internet Service Providers make millions off of disturbing illegal content which none go back to the artist.
    Did you even bother to read what you posted before you posted it?

    Regardless of that, if someone shares a song, the receiver will most likely just D/L it and keep it moving. Not everyone, or probably a good amount are willing to venture into an artist's music history and start listening/buying everything. If they haven't heard of the person until now, chances are there's a torrent of the album out there. They're not going to run out and buy it.
    Yeah, attitudes like that aren't killing the storefront aspect of the music industry or anything.

    OH WAIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    A lot of people seem unaware that musicians get most of their income via touring.

    Pirating in that sense can be very helpful to an artist.

    The problem comes with record labels. If record labels continue to get cut out of profit/revenue by piracy, they have less incentive to sign bands (and there will probably be as a result fewer record companies). This theoretically makes it harder for bands to find funding/promoters for their work.

    With the rise of the internet though, and the way in which TV shows (especially reality shows) work nowadays, there are many ways for artists to get noticed without record labels.
    There's also everything in this post.

    (Also, I should emphasize the word "theoretically" in that second to last line, though; people who want to find something will, by word of mouth or Last.fm/similar services.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jb View Post
    I disagree. If someone is going to pirate an album instead of paying the $16.99 for it, then they are not going to buy concert/touring tickets for a much higher price.
    False. Also, do you seriously believe that the average person believes the price of attending a live showing to only be worth as much as a studio album?

    I think it can be assumed that most people who go to concerts/tours have at least bought something the artist put out.
    I think I've found your problem. Now, this may be true of an artist like Opeth, but there are more to this world than niche artists whose concerts are only attended by superfans. Some people attend concerts for popular artists just to see them perform one song.

    Quote Originally Posted by moot View Post
    the thing with piracy is that it's so easy that music is seen by a lot of people as a disposable form of entertainment. people can download an album or an entire discography for free, and if they listen to songs that don't click immediately a lot of people are just going to be like "oh well" and delete a whole artist's output on the basis that they don't like 3 songs right away. certainly, for me to go to a band's show, i have to love their output and it has happened before where i initially dismiss an artist and skip their shows only to come back to their material later on and find out i actually really like it (and then proceed to buy their releases)
    So, you mean that a lot of people have short attention spans?
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    personally, i agree with the try before you buy concept, but id have to agree with moot, jb, (<-- hell yeah, oxford comma) and miles, if you really like an artist, the worst thing you can do is steal their material. and especially for up and coming artists who need every cent to put back into their label to try to make it big.
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolaidman594 View Post
    (<-- hell yeah, oxford comma)
    Truly, your intelligence precedes you.

    if you really like an artist, the worst thing you can do is steal their material. and especially for up and coming artists who need every cent to put back into their label to try to make it big.
    Again, though, album sales don't count for very much, especially when the tiny dividends have to be split between five, six, or sometimes more people. It mostly only feeds the record labels, which means it's not much help for the artist.

    Maybe the artist, label, somebody should allow the music to be streamed, in full? Then again, Rush did that for Snakes & Arrows and surely that buried them. And by "buried," I mean "The album debuted at #3 in America and sold almost a hundred thousand copies in four days." I know that a lot of services offer half-minute samples of the music, but those don't do enough of anything for anyone, really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogiston View Post
    Because piracy has or ever will reach that point, especially since record labels (and by and large it's record labels and recording industry associations who care, not artists, who usually get about 30% of the sales of a CD to split amongst all of their constituent members and, as far as I know, other staff who actually worked on the CD) lose their mind over even one person engaging in piracy.
    It's clearly at a big enough number to warrant people getting their panties in a bunch. To expect it to increase isn't as far-fetched as you make it out to be.

    The assumption is that all people who pirate don't buy what they've "stolen." This couldn't be further from the truth. See above how a lot of people have referred to it as a try-before-you-buy thing or extended loaning.
    Hearing a few songs then buying the album is a totally different thing than pirating the entire album then buying it. Like I said, unless you're a music enthusiast, you're not going to buy a second copy of something you already got for free.

    Did you even bother to read what you posted before you posted it?
    That was a reference to sites like torrents, or MP3 download sites and how they make money every time someone downloads something from their site. The person pirating isn't "paying" it but the site still makes money from it.

    Yeah, attitudes like that aren't killing the storefront aspect of the music industry or anything.
    Yet you say " piracy has or ever will reach that point." Unless you were being sarcastic in your first sentence, or I just misunderstood.

    False. Also, do you seriously believe that the average person believes the price of attending a live showing to only be worth as much as a studio album?
    Not at all. But you really find it outlandish that people who won't support albums releases won't go to the concert of the person in question?

    I think I've found your problem. Now, this may be true of an artist like Opeth, but there are more to this world than niche artists whose concerts are only attended by superfans. Some people attend concerts for popular artists just to see them perform one song.
    I'm aware of this. It's pretty evident with PSY. I'm not apllying this with everyone. But these claims aren't at all as wrong as you try to make it seem. It's common human behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jb View Post
    I disagree. If someone is going to pirate an album instead of paying the $16.99 for it, then they are not going to buy concert/touring tickets for a much higher price. I think it can be assumed that most people who go to concerts/tours have at least bought something the artist put out.
    Whereas many won't have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Whereas many won't have.
    Which would only be the minority no. Thus the statement still stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miles0624 View Post
    Which would only be the minority no. Thus the statement still stands.
    No it doesn't.

    Firstly because it's a faulty concept. The piracy point can apply at any point to be relevant. If you first heard of a band via piracy but then bought their stuff, then you bought their stuff because the pirated stuff you heard made you want to buy it. Band X gained from piracy. It's a false argument to say "oh all those people at the concert will have bought something" because piracy may very well have had a part in that.

    Secondly it makes little difference because as I said, the profits made via sales are not actually that high.

    Thirdly, it's a simple question of possibility. It's possible to listen to a band's music for free. It's not possible (or is extremely unlikely) for you to be able to see a band live for free.
    Last edited by Snorunt conservationist; 25th February 2013 at 9:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jb View Post
    Not at all. But you really find it outlandish that people who won't support albums releases won't go to the concert of the person in question?
    It's not a matter of money. It's not as if person X isn't willing to spend Y amount of money on the album, therefore they won't go the tour which costs a higher price. It's all about the experience. A live gig and the energy of seeing someone play live is a novel, social experience which one most likely has to pay for. The experience of an album doesn't change whether one has bought it or not. People can get more bang for their buck out of a live gig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    No it doesn't.

    Firstly because it's a faulty concept. The piracy point can apply at any point to be relevant. If you first heard of a band via piracy but then bought their stuff, then you bought their stuff because the pirated stuff you heard made you want to buy it. Band X gained from piracy. It's a false argument to say "oh all those people at the concert will have bought something" because piracy may very well have had a part in that.

    Secondly it makes little difference because as I said, the profits made via sales are not actually that high.

    Thirdly, it's a simple question of possibility. It's possible to listen to a band's music for free. It's not possible (or is extremely unlikely) for you to be able to see a band live for free.
    1. He didn't say all, he said most, which means the majority or 50+1. So the statement would still stand.

    2. It is false to believe that most artist make the majority of their money from touring. The smaller the label, the more likely that they are relying on the money from sales on itunes and the like. It is a good predictor of concert sales. If you can't remake the investment put into the cd, they will more than likely just drop you all together.

    3. It is easy to say that it is just a small concept in theory. However you are not looking at the broader picture. There was approximately 50.1 billion dollars lost in software piracy last year. This is a trend that is only going up.

    2005 :36.1 billion
    2009:49.2 billion
    2012: 50.1 Billion.

    This is a problem that will continue.

    4. Lets actually do some math. Justin Bieber typically gets 11 cents off of every song on itunes. Now if 10 million people pirate the song. He has lost 1.1 million just off that one song. That is not counting albums and so on, or the fact his popularity would probably add more people to pirating the songs. There are about twelve songs on an album so he lost about 13.2 million dollars. Last I checked, he made 40 million last year (this I am not sure of, but I believe I read this off yahoo.) That is still a huge dent in someones pocket. Now he is a rich musician. What does that mean for the small labels.

    5. It is difficult, but I have seen people escorted out of Bridgestone Arena during performances of artist. If people think they can get away with something, they will try.
    Last edited by miles0624; 26th February 2013 at 9:26 AM.

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