Club Double Trouble (a double battling community)

[joej m]

well... not the battling type, but the competitive aspect of it yes. more VGC tourneys and in more areas. they are all too far away from me to go to them. i won't go to one for a while unless it is in a hour range from my house.

EDIT: i think if i say welcome to the club it means he is in duckie xD

[Fire Hero]

To make battles more fun? Ban Tyranitar and Cresselia

I don't know, I'd say more double-battle special moves like Helping Hand and Heal Pulse, so more Pokémon can shine and more diverse movesets can be built. I know there are already a lot, but they seem to be leaned by only a few Pokémon.

I'd also like to see more move combos like what happens in the anime. For example, use Flamethrower on your partner while it uses Megahorn, and you'd have a new move "Fire Horn" with 180 BP and chance to burn :P Just saying...

[trident20]

joe u didnt answer my question......when is it

i want more combo moves like leaf pledge and stuff like that

ban cressilia too

[CrystalNinetales]

joe u didnt answer my question......when is it

i want more combo moves like leaf pledge and stuff like that

ban cressilia too

Cress being banned...yeah keep on dreaming. :P
Anywho im all pumped, and i plan on using the team i used for VGC Regionals. (i went to THAT regionals, so meh)

[joej m]

oh sorry :X
it is this friday. did you sign up on global link already? you need to. then battle as much as you can. i would recommend around 50-100 battles. it is friday to monday

[zozo]

I honestly don't mind Cresselia too much anymore. Well, I still hate her guts, but I don't really care that she's in VGCs. I just keep Sableye around while she's in and that pretty well stops her from doing...anything. Anything useful, anyway. She becomes more of a headache if Sableye goes down, but Gastrodon can usually finish the job with little fuss.

Let's see, to make doubles battling more fun? It needs to be in 3D with the moves animated (and animated properly. No more opponent Dragonites peeing out their DragonBreath for instance. To be fair though, that's always been a 2D problem...). Other than that, they need to fix the RQing problem. You know, punish the RQers, and ONLY the RQers, and award the person who was D/Cd on the win automatically as though it was a forfeit.

oh sorry :X
it is this friday. did you sign up on global link already? you need to. then battle as much as you can. i would recommend around 50-100 battles. it is friday to monday

Yeesh, I never do even close to that. xD Last tourney, I did 16 battles total. Won most of them too, which was nice... But yeah, I just do a few at a time when I have a spare moment or two, nothing too crazy. Obviously, I don't really care much about the rating. I just compete to have fun. The rating system is kind of screwed up anyway. So many times the people with the highest ratings are the jerks who disconnect every time they think they're going to lose, whereas people with low ratings might actually have tough teams but they're also good sports and are willing to accept their losses as well as their wins.

[treeckotrainer]

More move combos would be cool... like fire heroe said, in the anime they do it all the time. If you use a move on your teammate, it would still get hurt by that attack, but its next attack will be super powerful, like the firehorn move mentioned, or have an added effect, like guaranteed paralysis on an electric attack. Oh, and maybe some kind of move like icy wind that lowers sp. attack (there is intimidate for attack already)

[philzone]

Yeah, move combo's were great, but I also want that elusive sandstorm 120 power move (if nintendo make one). Plus, spore abuse is annoying, so i need a lum berry on every team (esp. on volcarona, since it is a beastly pokemon when set up). maybe ban spore, or change the sleep mechanics. Oh yeah: add more sand abuse abilities. rain has swift swim, hydration, dry skin; sun has chloryphyll and solar power, and flowe gift. maybe some hail abuse, but that would be amazing

[joej m]

More move combos would be cool... like fire heroe said, in the anime they do it all the time. If you use a move on your teammate, it would still get hurt by that attack, but its next attack will be super powerful, like the firehorn move mentioned, or have an added effect, like guaranteed paralysis on an electric attack. Oh, and maybe some kind of move like icy wind that lowers sp. attack (there is intimidate for attack already)

that is what snarl is actually. dark type move, hits both, i think power 50/55 and lowers sp attack. but it really hasn't proven to be too much of a great move actually >.>

[treeckotrainer]

that is what snarl is actually. dark type move, hits both, i think power 50/55 and lowers sp attack. but it really hasn't proven to be too much of a great move actually >.>

Whoops, never knew that. I knew it could decrease sp. attack, but not that it hits both opponents. I can see icy wind is better, though. Speed dropping is much better than sp. attack dropping.

[zozo]

Whoops, never knew that. I knew it could decrease sp. attack, but not that it hits both opponents. I can see icy wind is better, though. Speed dropping is much better than sp. attack dropping.

In most cases, I'd agree with you. But I can see Snarl being the better choice against TR teams. Icy Wind would actually end up increasing the opponent's speed under Trick Room. At the same time, a lot of TR setters are specially-based, so neutering their special attack might actually help you last longer in a match.

At any rate, I do think we need a status that's like a special version of burn. Call it Virus or something, your 'mon gets sick and muddle-headed (so their special moves aren't as effective) and their HP slowly drains away. I wonder what that would do to the metagame?

[joej m]

i think that was why they created snarl, because they probably dont wanna put a new status and possibly change coding or something like that.
icy wind is often more useful, ice type move and speed lowering is great. but zozo is right. trick room makes it a bad move.

[Chingchar]

In most cases, I'd agree with you. But I can see Snarl being the better choice against TR teams. Icy Wind would actually end up increasing the opponent's speed under Trick Room. At the same time, a lot of TR setters are specially-based, so neutering their special attack might actually help you last longer in a match.

At any rate, I do think we need a status that's like a special version of burn. Call it Virus or something, your 'mon gets sick and muddle-headed (so their special moves aren't as effective) and their HP slowly drains away. I wonder what that would do to the metagame?

That's actually quite a cool idea It'd be cool if something like that was in X&Y although it would probably get banned by Smogon because there like a bunch of little kids on there.... Not that it affects the VGC though

[joej m]

well will-o-wisp isn't banned, so a move like "virus" wouldn't be because of basically having the same affect.

[Chingchar]

Wow! Loads of inactivity here! Come on people post more! Right I've been making a team but before I post it on the RMT section I want people in this club to review and see if anything is wrong with it. Click the spoiler to see the team but be warned as it is quite long!
    Spoiler:- Team:

Show Spoiler

 
Politoed@Choice Specs
Ability: Damp lol joking its Drizzle obviously
EV's 252 SP.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Nature: Timid (not changing)
Moves:
Surf
Ice Beam
Focus Blast
Hyper Voice

So what would a rain team be without this little guy? His role is to set up rain and then deal some massive damage! Hyper Voice is not something you see much on a Politoed but I've found it very effective against teams that have pokemon with abilities like storm drain and water absorb. Ice beam is for coverage as usual. Focus blast is for dark types and steel types which can be a pain without many fire types on my team... Surf is for STAB and can also give Gastrodon a nice Special attack boost.


Whimsicott@Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EV's 252 HP/ 252 Spe/ 4 SP.Atk
Nature: Timid
Moves:
Beat Up
Stun Spore
Leech Seed
Helping Hand/ Tailwind/ Hurricane

So! Start off by using Beat Up on Lucario it may be simple but it is very effective! Next cripple a fast opponent with stun spore and use leech seed on both enemies. I was planning on running helping hand to give Lucario a boost but I don't know whether run Tailwind to give my team a bit more speed and then I thought "wait I'm using a rain team aren't I?!" So I am now in the middle of a debate on whether to use Helping Hand to give my teammates a boost, Tailwind to raise my speed although this might not be the thing to do because of the strategy to do with Gastrodon... Finally the perfect accuracy Hurricane which would also prevent Whimsicott being complete taunt bait... However! If someone shuts down my rain then hurricane would become a hindrance rather then a help.


Lucario@Shuca Berry
Ability: Justified
EV's 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Nature: Jolly
Moves:
Blaze Kick
Ice Punch
Protect
Close Combat

Right so I get an attack boost off Whimsicott and then just start to sweep! Blaze Kick is for the fire type coverage I am desperately in need of. Ice punch is to counter dragons which you see a lot of in the VGCs. Close Combat is for STAB and it has 120 base power so yeah self explanatory. Protect is to well protect myself from my team mates attacks. Pretty much the same role as the Terrakion&Whimsicott Strategy but with Lucario instead. Not much else to say here.


Gastrodon@Zoom Lens
Ability: Storm Drain
EV's 252 HP/ 252 Sp.Atk/ 4 Atk
Nature: Mild
Moves:
Earthquake
Muddy Water
Recover
Icy Wind/ Ice Beam

The reason for the item is because Gastrodon isn't exactly the fastest thing so instead of making it fast why not make it bulky? With th bulkiness comes slowness and that will activate the Zoom lens and will get Muddy Water near perfect accuracy and it only hurts the opposing team also as it is slow the Zoom lens would probably always work, it can also act as a counter to Trick Room teams. Earthquake is to get physical coverage in case of pokemon like Blissey or Chansey, Icy wind is to lower the foes speed but then I realised if I lower the opponents speed the zoom lens strategy won't work so I thought about Ice Beam please let me know what you think!


Starmie@Water Gem
Ability: Natural Cure
EV's 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Nature: Timid
Moves:
Psyshock
Ice Beam
Surf
Thunder/ Thunderbolt

Surf is an absolutely amazing move with Starmie's Sp.Atk stat the STAB boost, rain boost and finally a massive water gem boost it will hopefully blow a massive hole in the opponents team at the start of a battle. Ice Beam is for coverage against Dragons and others. Psyshock is of an alternative STAB for if Lucario or Gastrodon isn't out. Another debate about whether to use Thunder or thunderbolt I was thinking of using Thunder as what's life without a risk!


Drifblim@Flame Orb
Ability: Flare Boost
EV's 252 HP/ 252 Spe/ 4 SP.Atk
Nature: Jolly
Moves:
Will-O-Wisp
Thunder/Thunderbolt/ Weather Ball
Hex
Explosion

Start off with crippling the opponent with WoW and it will also boost the damage of Hex, Thunder to abuse the rain although I may change this to thunderbolt incase the enemy shuts the rain down, I know that Weather ball is just as risky but it can still be pretty useful. When they are near to finishing Drifblim off I'll use explosion. The item is to activate flare boost which will raise my special attack a lot, which is always a bonus! Didn't really know what to do with the EV's but they are working well so far so...


Drifblim@Flying Gem
Ability: Unburden
EV's 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Nature: Adamant
Moves:
Acrobatics
Payback
Psych Up
Explosion

So this is a physical set for Drifblim I am aware that there is another Drifblim above but I want to know which is better. I start by sending out Lucario and Whimsicott let Lucario get his Atk boost and use Psych Up on Lucario to get the same Atk boost, then I would use Acrobatics to activate the Flying Gem and Unburden to get a speed boost then just continue to use Acrobatics for STAB and the big base power. Payback is for Psychic types and because of Drifblim's bulkiness it can take a hit then retaliate with Payback which would also get a big power boost. When Drifblim gets close to the end I would use Explosion because I am fast enough to het the first hit thanks to Unburden and powerful enough to do some massive damage thanks to the attack boost I would copy.

 

[Fire Hero]

I think everyone is busy with the tournament :P

Anyway, the tournament was disastrous for me... a record of 16/11 and a score of 1541 which is my minimum and over 100 lower than in the Winter Tournament... so I went to check what failed. And I guess that the problem is the same as always. My team is Rock-weak, Trick Room-weak and weather dependant and 99 out of 100 teams in the tournament are either goodstuffs (more than 50% surely), rain or Trick room ones (or all of them together).

So now I'm studying new alternatives that fit my team and help covering those weaknesses. What do you guys think about the usefulness of Gallade in Doubles? Gets good coverage, nice abilities for this metagame and can soak a lot of moves including Latios's Draco Meteors and Tyranitar, Terrakion and Landorus's Rock Slides. It also does something for the team that is to reverse Trick Room.

Anyone ever used Gallade?

EDIT: So about your team:

First of all I like the team overall. It gets nice combos, it's creative and may work fine (or at least it will be fun to use, even if it is not full of goodstuffs). I'd not run Focus Blast nor Hyper Voice. I know you find that useful but Helping Hand or Protect seem more useful as Politoed is a likely target for those trying to kill the rain, and that HHand boost can be deadly when given to Lucario or Starmie. But it depends on how you play of course. I get the EQ part in Gastrodon but I disagree. Chansey and Blissey are uncommon and Lucario takes care of them already. I think Earth Power is more useful especially because you don't have to worry about killing your partner (Starmie and Lucario won't like EQ). I'd probably then use the physical Drifblim with Unburden so you have another physical attacker. The item on Gastrodon is interesting, though I'd go for a Sitrus Berry to make it even harder to take out. Then, Whimsicott seems to fit the wrong way, because it fills two roles you need. Taunter and Tailwinder. Lucario needs Tailwind and most of your team would not mind it in my opinion. Otherwise Lucario will be outsped a lot of times I'm afraid. Taunt to prevent Thunder Waves, Trick Rooms and to shut down other Prankster users, as Whimsicott is the fastest Prankster. Beat Up is a must for your strategy so stick with it and either Leech Seed or Protect (Stun Spore and Tailwind seem a little redundant if you ask me). But overall, I like that team, it would be the kind of Rain team I'd use.

[your boss]

@Chingchar I would dump some EVs in Speed and put them into Defense, Whimsicott doesn't really need all that Speed, considering it outruns all pranksters by a fair amount.

And this is my favorite VGC sets, a full out offensive Thundurus


Thundurus@ Life Orb
Timid/Modest
EVs: 252 speed/252 sp attack/4 HP
ThunderBolt
Focus Blast
Dark Pulse
HP Ice/HP Grass

Normally you would run across Thunder Wave or Swagger sets, but a full offensive Thundurus is quite viable. Thunderbolt is your main STAB, wrecking anything that doesn't resist it with 125 base sp attack. Focus Blast deals with with Hydreigon, Metagross and other Steels. Dark Pulse really can be helpful due to its nature of denting Cresselia and the Latis. HP Ice beats Landorus, Gliscor and other Dragons. HP Grass however deals with Gastrodon that would wall your set.

Counters: Pink blobs and Gastrodon.

[Fire Hero]

@Chingchar I would dump some EVs in Speed and put them into Defense, Whimsicott doesn't really need all that Speed, considering it outruns all pranksters by a fair amount.

And this is my favorite VGC sets, a full out offensive Thundurus


Thundurus@ Life Orb
Timid/Modest
EVs: 252 speed/252 sp attack/4 HP
ThunderBolt
Focus Blast
Dark Pulse
HP Ice/HP Grass

Normally you would run across Thunder Wave or Swagger sets, but a full offensive Thundurus is quite viable. Thunderbolt is your main STAB, wrecking anything that doesn't resist it with 125 base sp attack. Focus Blast deals with with Hydreigon, Metagross and other Steels. Dark Pulse really can be helpful due to its nature of denting Cresselia and the Latis. HP Ice beats Landorus, Gliscor and other Dragons. HP Grass however deals with Gastrodon that would wall your set.

Counters: Pink blobs and Gastrodon.

Since he has a Rain team I'd consider Thunder instead of TBolt and maybe... add Rain Dance. Prankster Rain Dance kills immediately the Ninetales and Tyranitar switch ins...

[your boss]

It's supposed to be a full out Thundurus that can use four attacks to cover its weaknesses. Plus you could give Politoed Rain Dance too to help eliminate Sand/whatever to bring back your Rain instead.

[joej m]

This is a lot... so get prepared for a long study of this xD

    Spoiler:- Team suggestions:

Show Spoiler

 
hmmm... having whimsicott AND thundurus seems redundant.
i would recommend a no thundurus and just whimsicott.
i really like your drifblim with lucario idea. so DEFINITELY run physical set. but payback might be weird. because it is more powerful if you go second, and drifblim has a fair amount of speed.
and on politoed i would recommend this set:



Politoed @ Choice Specs
Drizzle
252 HP / 172 SAtk / 76 SDef / 8 Spd OR 252 HP/ 100 Defense/ 72 Sp attack/ 76 SDef/ 8 Speed
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]/ Focus Blast
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump

The First EV spread lets it KO a ton of pokemon like metagross in one hit. the second one lets it tank more physical moves like fighting gem close combat from a hitmontop. this can also take a dragon gem draco meteor from a timid latios (both can take this) you want hydro pump and surf so you can either spam surf, or if you have something out with the more powerful hydropump and not hit your teammate.




Sorry But your gastrodon is just... >.< i can't stand it. putting a mix set is really weird in doubles. i would not ever think of doing special and physical moves on one set. and that set won't live anything. and i really think that zoom lens is really awkward. try this:


Gastrodon @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 28 SAtk / 120 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Protect

This Gastrodon set is on the bulkier side, though it isn’t lacking in the offensive department. Gastrodon’s Defense stat is pretty average, so a Bold nature is preferred if you’re looking for a mixed defensive Gastrodon. Defensively, this Gastrodon can do a ton. It survives a Fighting Gem Close Combat from Terrakion and is only 3HKOed by Zen Headbutt from Metagross, Crunch from Tyranitar, and Bug Bite from Scizor. Draco Meteor Dragon Gem from Timid Latios doesn’t even KO while Sitrus Berry keeps Gastrodon from being easily picked off afterwards.
You really dont need scald or muddy water. you have 2 other pokemon with water moves. this guy is THE bulky gastrodon. the one you posted i checked can barely live any moves that would be useful to tank. and when i does it easily gets picked off by the next move.





also your whimsicott should either not have leech seed and not have leftovers and have focus sash, or just have protect to stall out. but i would recommend this:

Whimsicott@Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EV's 252 HP/ 252 Spe/ 4 SP.Atk
Nature: Timid
Moves:
Beat Up
Tailwind
Giga Drain
Taunt

This is a more practical set. leech seed is better on a pokemon that has bulk. and the only way this guy lives anything is with the focus sash. Tailwind is more practical because stun spore is very inaccurate, making it unreliable. you need giga drain because of the being completely countered by gastrodon. taunt will help take out any other prankster users (all of them are slower than this guy) and will shut down trick room setups and most cresselias.





Finally... Starmie? it would really be great if you still could give it a focus sash... but you really will need that on whimsicott. i would maybe put a kingdra or dragonite there. here are the sets:

kingdra @ life orb/dragon gem
Ability: swift swim
4 HP/ 252 sp attack/ 252 speed
Nature: modest
-Draco meteor
-Muddy Water/ Hydro pump/ Scald/ Surf
-Protect
-Blank

This is the basic rain sweeping kingdra. this guy can take out so many pokemon with that monster speed. it can outspeed basically any pokemon other than excadrill in the sand. Draco meteor is deadly, muddy water hits both of them and the rain boosted power is great. hydro pump give huge power with the accuracy and not hitting both of them. scald is like hydropump but not as powerful and more reliable. finally, surf could work. boosting your gastrodon with it and hitting both is good, but hitting your own is a risk. Dont do substitute. since you dont have fake out it will be really hard trying to set that up.

OR

Dragonite @ Yache Berry/ Dragon Gem/ Life Orb
Ability: Multiscale
78 HP/ 252 sp attack/ 180 speed
Nature: Modest
-Draco Meteor
-Thunder
-Hurricane
-Protect

Complete Rain Abuse right here. Hurricane and Thunder are super powerful moves that get 100% accuracy in the rain. Draco meteor will do massive damage too. dont do dragon pulse for dragonite isn't powerful enough in general on the special side to use a move that weak. also it tanks everything almost with that multi scale. also, use protect whenever there is a pokemon with fake out so your ability isn't broken. The EV's let it outspeed a neutral speed nature base 70 speed pokemon. namely politoed and hitmontop.

But Starmie could be viable. only other thing is the bullet punch will be super viable on lucario. i just dont know which moves you should get rid of... maybe ice punch because scizor would be a bit of a problem sometimes without blaze kick.




Finally, Cresselia will tank out your team other than lucario which might get KO'd before being able to attack. You will really want a scizor on there. since i recommend not using a thundurus there is space for another pokemon

Scizor @ Steel Gem
Ability: Technician
196 HP/ 156 Attack/ 4 Def/ 124 sp defense/ 28 speed
Adamant Nature
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Aerial Ace/Acrobatics/ SafeGaurd/ Tailwind/ Feint/ Superpower
-Protect

This Set can tank a max sp attack black belt cresselia hidden power fire OUTSIDE of the rain 66.6% of the time. In the Rain this set tanks a ton more fire moves. The 3rd move is interesting. you could use aerial ace, which gets the technician boost, and always hits. acrobatics is a bit weaker unless you have used your item already. only real drawback is not guaranteed hit. Safeguard is an awesome move. if you can't get a taunt off them amoongus might completely put your team to sleep. Tailwind is there just as another tail winder, which might come in handy. Feint will require some predictions, but it can break through protect and let you KO which can ruin your foe. also having two steel pokemon will be good for tanking those nasty dragon moves, and the fire weakness shouldn't be a problem. Superpower is just a powerful move that could be useful.



these are just the final touchups. but i love your team idea and think that it could be a great, probably winning team