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Thread: Bws2-24 Unova League Conclusion! Lucario vs Pikachu! [FIRST POST]

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    So...

    Who thinks Ash will win this and have a decent battle against Virgil?
    This is the conclusion of the League as stated in the episode title. And even if Ash won and battled against Virgil, it wouldn't be a "decent battle" because it would be rushed worse than his battle against Tobias or shown off-screen and people would complain about that as well (for good reason). I don't know what else to say at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Comedy View Post
    Blame BW for making Sinnoh have a bad last battle.
    Ash's battle against Tobias was not a bad battle, that was actually one of the best of the League, imo.

    Heracross, Pikachu, Sceptile, and Gible made that battle awesome, and if it wasn't for them, that battle would have sucked major eggs.
    Heracross showed Darkrai that even Ash's Johto team has some power
    Pikachu showed that it really doesn't give a **** about whatever Pokemon it's facing, because when it pretty much raped Latios in the sky, even Tobias got frightened.
    Sceptile's performance is self explanatory. I don't think I'v seen a battle where Sceptile actually loses badly, or even does a bad job in any way. He went down fairly against Latios, and I respect the fact that the writers allowed Sceptile to at least try against Latios.
    And Gible made the battle funny, and even though he was pretty much the baby of Ash's team by the time Sinnoh was over, he still showed that he can hold his own against a freaking Darkrai.
    I just can't believe the writers let Swellow stand up against Deoxys, but crash helplessly against Latios.
    Torkoal lost all respect from me after he lost to Tropius after one hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSirPeras View Post
    Probably to glorify Latios which was used to glorify Pikachu
    Not to glorify Latios but Staraptor.

    Most of Ash vs Tobias battle was 1HKO. They bring back Torkoal just to make it look more miserable. Maybe they were showing us that Torterra is not the only loser in Ash's team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    This is the conclusion of the League as stated in the episode title. And even if Ash won and battled against Virgil, it wouldn't be a "decent battle" because it would be rushed worse than his battle against Tobias or shown off-screen and people would complain about that as well (for good reason). I don't know what else to say at this point.
    The writers could very well have Virgil lose to the random druddigon trainer, have ash beat kotetsu, and rush his semifinal and final matches in the span of 10 minutes, having Ash win the league. Yes, I am being completely serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbilical Noose View Post
    Not to glorify Latios but Staraptor.

    Most of Ash vs Tobias battle was 1HKO. They bring back Torkoal just to make it look more miserable. Maybe they were showing us that Torterra is not the only loser in Ash's team.
    I don't get why Staraptor is always overrated compared to Swellow. Staraptor hasn't done enough to say that it's better. I get it has a ton of power and Close Combat, but Swellow's been shown to hit hard with just Quick Attack and Aerial Ace...that's why it's match VS Latios seemed unreal




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    Guys, Ash is not getting "pathetic". Ash has been training in this generation as much as any other. But what's exactly "training" for Ash?; basically, to be battling constantly. The only difference, is that Ash's intensity of battles has been decreased.

    You see, until now, Ash had to battle hard every episode because of the constant prowling of the Team Rocket. Yeah, sure, you get used after defeating those guys over and over. However, Ash had to battle hard against big machines and stuff constantly; not to win a simple battle, but to keep his own Pokemon with him. Many of his Pokemon evolved in battles against Team Rocket: Caterpie to Metapod, Mankey to Primeape, Chikorita to Bayleef, Cyndaquill to Quilava, Phanpy to Donphan... etc. And some of his Pokemon joined Ash after a confrontation against Team Rocket: Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Lapras, Chikorita, Cyndaquill, Totodile, Noctowl, Snorunt...etc.

    In the moment that Team Rocket stopped following Ash constantly, he finally got a break; but the intensity of his battles greatly decreased because they weren't "struggles for survival" or to keep your Pokemon, they became just sporty and friendly competitions against rivals who respect each others as trainers. They have replaced those continuous battles with the Battle Club's Tournaments and stuff, but they are not as intensive as battling against Team Rocket; even when they were just a couple of clowns. (Boy, I miss those days).

    Don't you think I'm right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddieursa View Post
    Guys, Ash is not getting "pathetic". Ash has been training in this generation as much as any other. But what's exactly "training" for Ash?; basically, to be battling constantly. The only difference, is that Ash's intensity of battles has been decreased.

    You see, until now, Ash had to battle hard every episode because of the constant prowling of the Team Rocket. Yeah, sure, you get used after defeating those guys over and over. However, Ash had to battle hard against big machines and stuff constantly; not to win a simple battle, but to keep his own Pokemon with him. Many of his Pokemon evolved in battles against Team Rocket: Caterpie to Metapod, Mankey to Primeape, Chikorita to Bayleef, Cyndaquill to Quilava, Phanpy to Donphan... etc. And some of his Pokemon joined Ash after a confrontation against Team Rocket: Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Lapras, Chikorita, Cyndaquill, Totodile, Noctowl, Snorunt...etc.

    In the moment that Team Rocket stopped following Ash constantly, he finally got a break; but the intensity of his battles greatly decreased because they weren't "struggles for survival" or to keep your Pokemon, they became just sporty and friendly competitions against rivals who respect each others as trainers. They have replaced those continuous battles with the Battle Club's Tournaments and stuff, but they are not as intensive as battling against Team Rocket; even when they were just a couple of clowns. (Boy, I miss those days).

    Don't you think I'm right?
    Nonserious TR is extremely weak, any random trainer could blast them off with a 100 sucess rate provided no trickery was involved.

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    Granted, Pikachu was usually the one that took care of TR, but other Pokemon usually had to put up some fight against their giant robots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cauldronmaster View Post
    The writers could very well have Virgil lose to the random druddigon trainer, have ash beat kotetsu, and rush his semifinal and final matches in the span of 10 minutes, having Ash win the league. Yes, I am being completely serious.
    Are we watching the same anime? 'Cause that is the exact opposite of what the writers would do. They'd rather waste time showing us a bunch of reductive scenes than actually condense several important events into a small time frame. It's just outside their capacity unfortunately. I think we should face reality; Ash will probably lose against Kotetsu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Openings
    The Indigo League got 16.1
    The Johto League got 7.4
    The Hoenn League got 6.3
    The Sinnoh League got 5.6

    So it's been in decline, but this has been a pretty big drop
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Although it's not related to the League... the lowest rated episode comes from Best Wishes, which was Tepig's evolution with 2.2
    Thanks. So generally, viewership of the league beginning has always been less then before, not so much unique to BW.

    One last question if it's not to much: Which saga has more lower rating episodes compared to higher rating ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    There's a huge difference between the two though, Ash is the main character, we're following his adventures, Ash has been through 5 regions and 2 side quests. Kotetsu has been shown beating Marlon in a mediocre-ly( Idk if that's a word haha) written battle. That is all that Kotetsu has before the league, and even then...he beat Bianca and a CotD. That's it. And it may not be confirmed, but it's looking like that Ash losing or having a rushed last battle if the League is over in this episode
    And therein lies the point. We've seen Ash lose to various types of people. It's hardly as if he only loses to the best of the best. It's pretty much all about luck. Between the comic preview and revelation of a "out of control secret weapon", it's not as if Ash isn't being implied to be having the advantage. We've already established that winning through an out of control pokemon isn't a real win anyway.

    As mentioned repeatedly, we've had several episode titles imply a major full episode battle that ended up only taking up the first few minutes. We could easily have a repeat, with Ash vs Kotetsu concluding in the first five minutes. Given that Ash and gang are still at the stadium next episode, it's not that out of the question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    I don't get why Staraptor is always overrated compared to Swellow. Staraptor hasn't done enough to say that it's better. I get it has a ton of power and Close Combat, but Swellow's been shown to hit hard with just Quick Attack and Aerial Ace...that's why it's match VS Latios seemed unreal
    What's even worst is Swellow should have been way faster then Latios... though I guess they finally look at it's defenses :/

    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    Thanks. So generally, viewership of the league beginning has always been less then before, not so much unique to BW.

    One last question if it's not to much: Which saga has more lower rating episodes compared to higher rating ones?
    It's been in general decline since the Orange Islands... but Best Wishes has more lower ratings then higher ones. Only the first twelve episodes have generally high ratings of 7 to 8 (first two being a double special getting a 9.3). The only other episodes to get at least 7's in BW seem to be Dento based ones if I remember correctly
    Last edited by Joltik-Kid; 11th December 2012 at 6:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    Thanks. So generally, viewership of the league beginning has always been less then before, not so much unique to BW.

    One last question if it's not to much: Which saga has more lower rating episodes compared to higher rating ones?

    And therein lies the point. We've seen Ash lose to various types of people. It's hardly as if he only loses to the best of the best. It's pretty much all about luck. Between the comic preview and revelation of a "out of control secret weapon", it's not as if Ash isn't being implied to be having the advantage. We've already established that winning through an out of control pokemon isn't a real win anyway.

    As mentioned repeatedly, we've had several episode titles imply a major full episode battle that ended up only taking up the first few minutes. We could easily have a repeat, with Ash vs Kotetsu concluding in the first five minutes. Given that Ash and gang are still at the stadium next episode, it's not that out of the question.
    Of course, it looks like Ash is ahead 2 or 3-1 at worst. That's what makes it hurt worse if Ash loses. Sure luck may be a factor, but in the other leagues starting at Johto, Ash lost with style against good opponents



    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    What's even worst is Swellow should have been way faster then Latios... though I guess they finally look at it's defenses :/


    It's been in general decline since the Orange Islands... but Best Wishes has more lower ratings then higher ones. Only the first twelve episodes have generally high ratings of 7 to 8 (first two being a double special getting a 9.3). The only other episodes to get at least 7's in BW seem to be Dento based ones if I remember correctly
    Poor Swellow, it's an insult to consider that battle real. Ughhh really? That Dento thing disappoints me




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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post

    It's been in general decline since the Orange Islands... but Best Wishes has more lower ratings then higher ones. Only the first twelve episodes have generally high ratings of 7 to 8 (first two being a double special getting a 9.3). The only other episodes to get at least 7's in BW seem to be Dento based ones if I remember correctly
    Ratings for a show like Pokemon don't matter. The series is driven by merchandize sales and the show is still in TVTokyo's Top 10 anime every week.

    The series has simply been airing for way too long, which is why the ratings aren't as good as they used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Ratings for a show like Pokemon don't matter. The series is driven by merchandize sales and the show is still in TVTokyo's Top 10 anime every week.

    The series has simply been airing for way too long, which is why the ratings aren't as good as they used to be.
    Of course, it's also from the inital excitement wearing off. It was the same way with South Park, everyone heard about it and was like "Woah! This is something new and sounds so awesome" and watched with the crowd. By season 3 they got less ratings but they considered the viewers who still tuned in to be the "real fans" and get the show. You can't compare the numbers exactly as they appear




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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    What's even worst is Swellow should have been way faster then Latios... though I guess they finally look at it's defenses :/


    It's been in general decline since the Orange Islands... but Best Wishes has more lower ratings then higher ones. Only the first twelve episodes have generally high ratings of 7 to 8 (first two being a double special getting a 9.3). The only other episodes to get at least 7's in BW seem to be Dento based ones if I remember correctly
    Correction, the ratings have been dropping since the end of the the first part of AG :/ To say that BW has had less ratings than DP did at the end of the line is a lie because the "receipts" show that they both had low rating compared to earlier series which most likely means that as each new series is produced less people watch them. DP did not have the best ratings of the anime like some people are acting like it did because by the time the middle of it started it was in the 5.0 average range not the 9.0 which would have made it more than BW alot. The ratings are basically the same by the time DP was at its halfway point and when I looked at the league episodes for DP they were in the 5.0 ranges which is the best a league has gotten? False. OS and AG have better ratings than both DP and BW by far and since they didnt change their ratings method there are the receipts that DP and BW both arent the best the anime has seen and even the BF was at the range that DP was at so it seems like Pokemon has been getting "alright ratings" for 7 years now. And most of the 7.0 or 8.0 episodes of DP are specials too so when you say that about BW the same could be said for DP :/

    Anyway, come to think of it doesnt the Kotesu battle start at the end of the Stephan episode meaning we may start with some of it there then it gets a full episode then like 7 minuets of this one? Seems like a very good option imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    It's been in general decline since the Orange Islands... but Best Wishes has more lower ratings then higher ones. Only the first twelve episodes have generally high ratings of 7 to 8 (first two being a double special getting a 9.3). The only other episodes to get at least 7's in BW seem to be Dento based ones if I remember correctly
    When you say Cilan based episodes, are you talking about ones where his role is revealed beforehand or episodes where he takes it upon himself to randomly do something important? Because if it's the latter, I don't see why the ratings would increase since there wouldn't be any forewarning. But I think we can all agree that every episode that included some reductive storyline (Axew getting lost or Ash meeting a new Pokemon and getting into all sorts of trouble) received bad ratings. It's funny how everything I've been saying for years ends up being true; that the ratings have been declining since BW started. The writers could have saved this saga when BW2 started, but they continued to troll us with random events and lies like the "Team Rocket's biggest mission ever" statement and their departure from the cast which obviously didn't happen. I think I speak for many people when I say that Trip's early exit and Axew's filler episode ruined what little momentum this League had going for it; Kotetsu beating Ash was just the icing on the travesty cake. So anyone who has claimed that it's not all Kotetsu's fault has a point, but it still doesn't make me like him as a character. He's just incredibly reductive in my opinion. We already had a sometimes-acts-stupidly character (Ash), and we really didn't need another one. :x

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Nonserious TR is extremely weak, any random trainer could blast them off with a 100 sucess rate provided no trickery was involved.
    ...you seem to live in a world full of genre savvy people. That is not pokemon. The reason why ash manages to beat them so "easily" is for comedic effect.

    More specificly, despite the fact that WE KNEW that team rocket will always loose...ash does not. Ash may have become savvy about it in some episodes, but that doesn't mean that team rocket isn't a threat to him personally.

    We know that team rocket is no threat because he the protagonist...However to him, getting pikachu stolen still forces him to fight off team rocket, and requires him to make SURE that he's ready for them. Now that they're gone, its as eddiursa said...Its all friendly. I would still love more training montages, but what he/she says has a valid point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Ratings for a show like Pokemon don't matter. The series is driven by merchandize sales and the show is still in TVTokyo's Top 10 anime every week.

    The series has simply been airing for way too long, which is why the ratings aren't as good as they used to be.
    I wouldn't say thats true, One Piece has been around I think longer and it still gets the best ratings in Japan to date.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    I wouldn't say thats true, One Piece has been around I think longer and it still gets the best ratings in Japan to date.
    not quite...but its close. Pokemon has to have been on longer then the one piece anime (The manga I'm not sure.) But that's in years...not in episode numbers.

    yeah definatly, the manga started december 24th of 1997. Thats already after the pokemon anime started.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    I wouldn't say thats true, One Piece has been around I think longer and it still gets the best ratings in Japan to date.
    not quite >< also one piece has a plot that continues pokemon resets every season ><

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    2.2 for Tepig's Evolution Episode? That really is low. Was everyone on vacation that day or what?
    Japan hates Tepig.

    Back when Generation 5 was new Tepig (and the rest of its line) failed to place in not one but several popularity polls. It's gotten somewhat better for the little porker recently, but he still lags far behind Oshawott and Snivy. I figured the only reason they let Tepig evolve so " early " was because their audience didn't care one way or another. Might as well make him strong since he can't get much cuter.

    As far as the other low ratings go ... Pokemon is a Long Runner. Since the audience knows what to expect from the show now they're less likely to tune in when it doesn't interest them. Some just tune out of it altogether and catch up whenever they feel the itch to. The structure of the show both aides and fails it. The excitement of learning what's next isn't there most of the time. Perhaps that's why we have more 2 and 3 parters now then we did in the past; to build suspense and help with ratings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    Some just tune out of it altogether and catch up whenever they feel the itch to. The structure of the show both aides and fails it.
    Very true. I do that with this series. The best way to keep away from spoilers is simply not to go to any Pokemon websites.

    I'd have to say this was probably both the most surprising and the most disappointing leagues so far. Surprising because of how they have mixed it up, but disappointing because, not only did they put a filler episode in it, but they have made it clear that they don't care about it. To make it clear, I mostly watch for the big battles, and when they're not battling, I'm usually doing something else while it plays in the background.

    If Ash had just gone ahead and won (regardless of his team's strength) and they had something NEW coming out the other end, such as training for battles against the elite four, then I'd be far more interested. The training could tie into meeting N and ultimately having to fight Team Plasma before fighting the elite four.

    Instead, he loses the league and goes back to square one. At least it's predictable enough that we can see a pattern.

    Top 16 (Kanto)
    Top 8 (Johto)
    Top 8 (Hoenn)
    Top 4 (Sinnoh)
    Top 4 (Isshu)
    2nd Place
    2nd Place

    I'd guess that'll be the pattern for the next 2 sagas, if things continue the way that they have been. Maybe in 10 years, he'll be a league/conference champion. Of course, he'll still be 10 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    Japan hates Tepig.

    Back when Generation 5 was new Tepig (and the rest of its line) failed to place in not one but several popularity polls. It's gotten somewhat better for the little porker recently, but he still lags far behind Oshawott and Snivy. I figured the only reason they let Tepig evolve so " early " was because their audience didn't care one way or another. Might as well make him strong since he can't get much cuter.

    As far as the other low ratings go ... Pokemon is a Long Runner. Since the audience knows what to expect from the show now they're less likely to tune in when it doesn't interest them. Some just tune out of it altogether and catch up whenever they feel the itch to. The structure of the show both aides and fails it. The excitement of learning what's next isn't there most of the time. Perhaps that's why we have more 2 and 3 parters now then we did in the past; to build suspense and help with ratings.
    The populartiy poll came out when the games came out, it was a ranking about the game pokemon, Oshawott is probably first now and it wasn't back then.

    Tepig is so hated that even though it evolved its still promoted as heck in merchandising...liking Snivy and Oshawott =/= hating Tepig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Ratings for a show like Pokemon don't matter. The series is driven by merchandize sales and the show is still in TVTokyo's Top 10 anime every week.

    The series has simply been airing for way too long, which is why the ratings aren't as good as they used to be.
    No. Ratings "aren't as good as they used to be" because people watch less television in general. It's not Pokemon's ratings that have dropped, it's the ratings of everything on TV everywhere. It has nothing to do with the content of the material, it has to do with the fact that they're TV programs.

    As for the ratings themselves... you guys don't really seem to understand how good these ratings are. Ratings in the 5s are amazing. It's one of the most popular cartoons on TV in Japan, most of the cartoons that get higher ratings are long-running family shows rather than shows aimed primarily at children, and it's the most popular "let's push this toyline/video game franchise" cartoon show by far.
    Best Wishes doesn't have low ratings. It has extremely high ones. It's incredibly successful, and it's not going anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by KibaLG8 View Post
    2.2 for Tepig's Evolution Episode? That really is low. Was everyone on vacation that day or what?
    Yes, it was Golden Week.

    That's the reason so few were watching, not some ridiculous conspiracy theory that the audience hate Pokabu so much half of them will skip watching the show because it gets a focus episode. Get real.
    Last edited by Dephender; 11th December 2012 at 1:25 PM.

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    I did just post this on part one, but this is how I hope it goes down.

    Hydreigon vs Boldore/Gigalith - Hydreigon
    Hydreigon vs Pignite - Pignite
    Samurott vs Pignite - Pignite recalled
    Samurott vs Pikachu - Pikachu
    Swanna vs Pikachu - Pikachu, then recalled
    Unknown pokemon vs Oshawott
    Ferrothorn vs Oshawott - Ferrothorn
    Ferrothorn vs Unfezeant - Unfezeant
    Riolu vs Unfezeant - Riolu
    Riolu vs Snivy - Riolu evolves
    Lucario vs Snivy - Lucario
    Lucario vs Pikachu - Lucario
    Lucario vs Pignite - Pignite

    This is how I think it will go to be honest. Only Boldore and Snivy don't get wins BUT at least Pikachu doesn't win three.
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