Bws2-24 Unova League Conclusion! Lucario vs Pikachu! [FIRST POST]

[Ver-mont]

This really p*sses me off. The general reboot/reset of Ash in each new saga is purely the older fandoms illusion of the show and an idea that they've all come to believe and accept.

The TRUTH and FACT of the matter storywise is that in the anime, Ash DOES have the experience and is currently travelling his fifth known region.

They do softly reboot him each saga, because the audience is constantly renewing itself and they want the new kids to relate to him. They don't care much about the people who know Ash is an experienced trainer going through his fifth quest or so, those people are not the target audience anymore. We are not the target audience anymore, Best Wishes is made with the new kids in mind, and they have Ash act like the new kids would do, regardless of how much time he's been in journey.

It's naïveté to think they even care he's been to countless Leagues before.

The only reason why he's acting worse now than in Hoenn or Sinnoh is because Hoenn and Sinnoh had a real rookie to share the focus.

[Graham Aker]

So this gives us a clear answer: if Ash keeps being the mc in this anime he'll continue regresing/resetting, but since I don't think writers will change protagonist then the ones who will still continue watching despite all the disappointment this generation brought must deal with it.

Ash is pretty much doomed to be in an endless loop of failure when it comes to leagues. I still don't understand the logic of not allowing him to win a league, especially since that does not = Pokemon Master.

Here, it just seems like the writers couldn't even be bothered to have him lose in an actual full battle for w/e reason. THey just seem to want to get the league over with.

[Ver-mont]

Ash is pretty much doomed to be in an endless loop of failure when it comes to leagues. I still don't understand the logic of not allowing him to win a league, especially since that does not = Pokemon Master.

If people are almost bursting into flames because he fell from Top 4 back to Top 8, just imagine how it would be if he won a League (and got his butt handed to him on a gold and silver platter by the first Elite Four trainer, of course) and then lost the next one. Even if it was Top 4.

[pokemonsquared]

Well yeah think about it, he almost lost to Roxie with a huge numbers advantage using all his evolved pokemon sans Krokorok, and we expect him to do very well or win less than 20 episodes later with only Krookodile added to the mix?

[Shneak]

If people are almost bursting into flames because he fell from Top 4 back to Top 8, just imagine how it would be if he won a League (and got his butt handed to him on a gold and silver platter by the first Elite Four trainer, of course) and then lost the next one. Even if it was Top 4.

Exactly. EXACTLY. Regression in the Unova League is a good thing because Ash has a horrible team, and he'll most likely only do better next time.

[Ciccone]

Oh grow up, Ash deserved it. Most of his pokemon aren't at their First stage let alone their Final forms. Keep in mind this is a total reset. Ash has no expericence of anything. Just like in kanto. We're lucky he got into the Top 8.

That's true. Ash didn't deserve to achieve much success at this League, but he should have lost to a worthy opponent, someone who had enough sense to bring six Pokemon to a full battle. I think Top 8 is still quite generous for Ash; having so many weak Pokemon like Scraggy and Unfezant really sank Ash's dreams, but that's the writers' faults.

[Pokemaniac24]

The chances of Ash winning a League are about as good as the chances of Yugi losing a duel are (When Yugi's not battling himself, selling his soul to the Seal of Orichalcos, or his opponent is threatening to kill himself of course).

[Cresselia92]

I'm sorry, I'm calling total BS on this line. Young kids don't give a shit about "mediocre" writing. Members of this fandom just need to accept the show isn't being written for them, thus they aren't trying to "attack Ash fans" or whatever crazy conspiracy theories surface.

Oh, oh, oh! I assure you that children's minds are much more complex that you make out to be. In fact, is MUCH MORE difficult to produce shows for children than for teens/adults, because there are a lot of standards that you have to respect to be successful. I know that because I'm studying how to make a series and what you have to do to produce episodes.

However, that doesn't mean that a kids' show shouldn't charm teens and adults too. Take for example the Dreamworks movies: they're geared in a way that both kids and adults can find them enjoyable and interesting, full of colors and with a humor that can be understood by children (with some things that adults understand a bit more).

Only because we don't see young people complaining on the Internet doesn't mean that they don't complain. Maybe they don't even have as much access to the Internet as us! So it isn't up to us to say that children blindly accept whatever thing the writers are giving to us. They have brains too to determine what is good and what is bad. They only lack a way to express that.

[Pokemaniac24]

Oh, oh, oh! I assure you that children's minds are much more complex that you make out to be. In fact, is MUCH MORE difficult to produce shows for children than for teens/adults, because there are a lot of standards that you have to respect to be successful. I know that because I'm studying how to make a series and what you have to do to produce episodes.

However, that doesn't mean that a kids' show shouldn't charm teens and adults too. Take for example the Dreamworks movies: they're geared in a way that both kids and adults can find them enjoyable and interesting, full of colors and with a humor that can be understood by children (with some things that adults understand a bit more).

Only because we don't see young people complaining on the Internet doesn't mean that they don't complain. Maybe they don't even have as much access to the Internet as us! So it isn't up to us to say that children blindly accept whatever thing the writers are giving to us. They have brains too to determine what is good and what is bad. They only lack a way to express that.

That's true. For teens, all you need to do is make a show about people getting high and you have a hit XD

[pokemonsquared]

The chances of Ash winning a League are about as good as the chances of Yugi losing a duel are (When Yugi's not battling himself, selling his soul to the Seal of Orichalcos, or his opponent is threatening to kill himself of course).

I think Yusei might even have a better track record XD He didn't even officially lose the Kalin fight due to his Duel runner breaking down. He won everything else.

Man I think it's pretty clear why there's flareon and Espeon.

Espeon/Flareon OHKOs Imotaro's last pokemon for top 8
The other does the same for top 4, maybe vs Camoron?
Eevee beats Druddigon for the win

[Doryuzu]

Oh, oh, oh! I assure you that children's minds are much more complex that you make out to be. In fact, is MUCH MORE difficult to produce shows for children than for teens/adults, because there are a lot of standards that you have to respect to be successful. I know that because I'm studying how to make a series and what you have to do to produce episodes.

However, that doesn't mean that a kids' show shouldn't charm teens and adults too. Take for example the Dreamworks movies: they're geared in a way that both kids and adults can find them enjoyable and interesting, full of colors and with a humor that can be understood by children (with some things that adults understand a bit more).

Only because we don't see young people complaining on the Internet doesn't mean that they don't complain. Maybe they don't even have as much access to the Internet as us! So it isn't up to us to say that children blindly accept whatever thing the writers are giving to us. They have brains too to determine what is good and what is bad. They only lack a way to express that.

I'm sorry, I agree with the sentiments about Dream Works movies, which are family movies more so than childrens' movies as the same is with Studio Ghibli movies and other popular films like Toy Story 3, Remember the Titans, etc. Five-years-olds do not give a crap about Tsutarja's lack-of-development, they just see a cool and cute Pokemon on the surface. I certainly didn't care when I was really young.

[AuraChannelerChris]

That's true. For teens, all you need to do is make a show about people getting high and you have a hit XD

Now that's putting a pretty bad stereotype.

[Pokemaniac24]

Now that's putting a pretty bad stereotype.

Or it's making a joke. Choose one or the other.

I'm sorry, I agree with the sentiments about Dream Works movies, which are family movies more so than childrens' movies as the same is with Studio Ghibli movies and other popular films like Toy Story 3, Remember the Titans, etc. Five-years-olds do not give a crap about Tsutarja's lack-of-development, they just see a cool and cute Pokemon on the surface. I certainly didn't care when I was really young.

I actually agree with what you're saying. I see a lot of people complaining about Kanto these days saying that the League was awful, the way Ash loss was awful, Ash's Pokémon didn't get development and most of them didn't get proper screen time. NONE of us were thinking those things when we were kids.

[ShinyPokemon inc.]

That's true. For teens, all you need to do is make a show about people getting high and you have a hit XD

That is not true my friends and I don't like those shows we think there stupid

[Pokemaniac24]

That is not true my friends and I don't like those shows we think there stupid

It's a joke, my friend (But seriously, there probably are teens like that but then again, there are probably adults like that!)

[pokemonsquared]

Or it's making a joke. Choose one or the other.



I actually agree with what you're saying. I see a lot of people complaining about Kanto these days saying that the League was awful, the way Ash loss was awful, Ash's Pokémon didn't get development and most of them didn't get proper screen time. NONE of us were thinking those things when we were kids.

I thought the way he lost was BS back when I was a kid. I didn't really care about all the fillers though.

[Cresselia92]

I thought the way he lost was BS back when I was a kid. I didn't really care about all the fillers though.

Same here. I literally said: "What the heck, Charizard? Please, listen to Ash! Just this time, please?".

Good times.

[Pokemaniac24]

Same here. I literally said: "What the heck, Charizard? Please, listen to Ash! Just this time, please?".

Good times.

No one was complaining about it on the level most of us are complaining about it in our young adult days. Seriously, the Kanto haters actually think they found "flaws" with the show when they probably loved those "flaws" as a kid.

[Ciccone]

I'm sorry, I'm calling total BS on this line. Young kids don't give a shit about "mediocre" writing.

Clearly they do because the anime's ratings are worse than ever and are still free falling. I think that makes it quite obvious that most kids know the difference between a well-written episode and a poorly-written episode; they just can't be bothered to watch bad episodes, and I applaud them for realizing just how terrible the anime has gotten recently. :x

But I feel like I'm talking in circles now. I wish this episode would just air so we could talk about the facts and not just speculation, although I think a few things about this episode are as good as confirmed. But I do think it's funny that we seem to know more about Virgil's Pokemon than we do about some of the other details like the closing ceremony.

[A.F.M]

Back when I was a kid, I thought Ash's loss in the kanto league was kind of refreshing lol. I used to watch Pokemon in the morning time (while eating cereal) and after seeing Ash sweep Mandy I was like "Damn, this is so cliche. The dude is the main character of course he's going to win".

Boy was I wrong. :/ I'm pretty sure cereal flew in my mom's eyes the day Ritchie beat Ash, it was a total wtf moment for me.