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Thread: Bws2-24 Unova League Conclusion! Lucario vs Pikachu! [FIRST POST]

  1. #326
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    where's the proof that Kotetsu beats Ash
    Let there be rock

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  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai619 View Post
    where's the proof that Kotetsu beats Ash
    There's no proof, people just assume by the title that Lucario vs Pikachu is the last battle.
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  3. #328
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    Virgil might have been introduced for another story related reason.

    But to be honest I think this outrage with the League is really the fault of the fans, at least a vocal subset of them. Since the beginning of Best Wishes they have pushed and pushed for BW to be the most amazing series ever. Disappointment in the series was suppressed and instead they held hope and hype for the episodes of their dreams to eventually materialize. Many false expectations later, they are ready to rage. And if it weren't for Episode N, things would have been a lot uglier. Most of us have accepted a long time ago that this series was just going to be average at best. For some people on this and other forums BW was meant to be their redemption for DP, but no one ever said redemption had to be good.

  4. #329
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    Then why add Virgil as a rival, in the first place?
    You seemed to be missing what I was saying. Introducing Bianca as a Rival to Ash was also useless in that aspect (to be a threat to Ash). She was around for most of the series but the only victory she got over Ash was during a Tag Battle with Juniper's help, and even then they lost that battle because Ash's partner beat them. Bianca battled Ash once on her own and lost. Ever since then she's battled everyone but Ash with varying degrees of success. It didn't seem like she was an actual threat to Ash at any point in the series.

    As far as Virgil goes ... he will probably be the guy who beats Kotetsu and may or may not proceed from there. Who cares? Beyond that, it's possible we'll see both Virgil and Kotetsu again after the League in Episode N.

    When was their last battle anyways..?
    The Tag Battle with Juniper and Cilian, which she lost.

    Everybody expected Virgil to battle Ash, but now people are annoyed because Virgil was brought in and hyped up only to not battle Ash.
    Everyone expected Trip and Ash to have a 6 on 6 but that didn't happen. That should've been a tip off that this was going to be a League that was full of surprises, which it is.

    She's the first proper rival to make Ash actually seem 10x stronger than her, he had nothing to prove unlike an opponent such as let's say, Trip.
    Bianca was Ash's first female Rival. She had everything to prove here, but the only thing she managed to prove was that female Trainers are every bit as useless as the writers implied them to be for years.

  5. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai619 View Post
    where's the proof that Kotetsu beats Ash
    There isn't yet. The main basis people are using is this ep's title and that this is confirmed as the final ep of the unova league.

  6. #331
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    I'm quoting myself:

    Quote Originally Posted by ludiloco View Post
    the point of introducing Virgil was to promote the eeveelutions, not to win the league.
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  7. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrai619 View Post
    where's the proof that Kotetsu beats Ash
    Well it's the last episode of the league so unless Virgil 1 shots all of Ash's pokemon, there is no way they can battle.
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  8. #333

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    I wouldn't mind Hero defending it, he likes it thats fine but shouldn't fight people who have different opinions on it. I hope the next series they actually try, it seems in my opinion they gave up.

    -Seems they felt Trip/Virgil/Bel were all failures rivals, they knocked Trip out early, Bel and Virgil {Who got introduced at the last second} Don't even get to fight Ash. Seriouly, whats the point in putting Virgil in the series if he was just going to be beaten by some rival will never see again?

    This is all my opinion.
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  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero of Ideals View Post
    The writers did not troll anybody.
    Oh ffs. They gave us that pointless filler episode about Axew instead of using that time to continue the main tournament and now the conclusion of the League has suffered as a result, and you're telling me that we weren't trolled? I guess it's fine and dandy to you that the most important event in this two-year long saga was a complete and utter failure and that characters who should have shined were swept under the rug and forgotten about? Come on now. This is the worst thing that has happened in the anime in a long time. I knew (as did almost everyone else) that Ash would lose at some point in the tournament, but we expected him to lose to Virgil since he was the type of character that gets introduced before a League just to become Ash's last opponent. And unlike Kotetsu who was introduced before him, he already had a fully-developed team of Pokemon that worked well together and could cover each other's weaknesses. Also, I don't think that this counts as a "plot twist" or that it shows how BW is "breaking tradition." This is just like when Tobias defeated Ash at the last minute, only worse because at least in this League, the writers had one extra episode to focus on the tournament, but they wasted it. I feel so ashamed for following this League. Granted, I didn't spend hours analyzing the battles like some other people here (kudos to them for taking the time to really understand what was going on), but I still came here everyday and looked through the threads for 20-30 minutes. What a waste of my time though.

  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    I wouldn't mind Hero defending it, he likes it thats fine but shouldn't fight people who have different opinions on it. I hope the next series they actually try, it seems in my opinion they gave up.

    -Seems they felt Trip/Virgil/Bel were all failures rivals, they knocked Trip out early, Bel and Virgil {Who got introduced at the last second} Don't even get to fight Ash. Seriouly, whats the point in putting Virgil in the series if he was just going to be beaten by some rival will never see again?

    This is all my opinion.
    and that is why im suggesting a new team of writters for the next generation to keep things fresh and not boring and the same **** over and over again with them starting of somewhat decent..and then trailing off and just doing a poor job the rest of the series..because ash has good pokemon with him..they are just not trained or developed enough....and wasnt the point of getting rid of contests to focus on ash and battling? but they ****ed that up.... *sigh*

  11. #336
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    This might even be worse than the Hoenn League. Despite the fact that Ash didn't even meet his Hoenn League rivals until shortly before the League, atleast there were no rivals that got screwed over. All of Ash's Pokemon got wins and their time in the spotlight even though Torkoal and Pikachu didn't get a win until Tyson and the rivals they introduced actually served a purpose. Plus, the battles were good and we got 3 full battles and a double battle. I know the Sinnoh League has its haters too but I don't think I even have to explain why that was handled better.

  12. #337

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    My opinion, they trolled us pretty bad the entire series. Heres some moments of trolling..

    -Bringing back some of Ash older Pokemon only to be used by some one one else
    -A Snivy episode that hasn't been done a while, people pick on it but instead of Ash sticking up for her Iris does and Ash doesn't even get to battle
    -Ash/Trip rivalry
    -Virgil being introduced at the last second not even getting to fight
    -Skipping over two important battles in the league all for another Axew gets lost episode
    -Don tournaments, Ash doesn't even win one sheesh.

    I actually liked the AG tournament cuz it showed Ash getting better as a trainer, sure he didn't have any rivals but maybe some times thats for the best.
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  13. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    My opinion, they trolled us pretty bad the entire series. Heres some moments of trolling..

    -Bringing back some of Ash older Pokemon only to be used by some one one else
    -A Snivy episode that hasn't been done a while, people pick on it but instead of Ash sticking up for her Iris does and Ash doesn't even get to battle
    -Ash/Trip rivalry
    -Virgil being introduced at the last second not even getting to fight
    -Skipping over two important battles in the league all for another Axew gets lost episode
    -Don tournaments, Ash doesn't even win one sheesh.

    I actually liked the AG tournament cuz it showed Ash getting better as a trainer, sure he didn't have any rivals but maybe some times thats for the best.
    ^ exactly my point

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    I am totally speechless. I read through all the posts to see what was going on and the only thing I like about this battle, is that Snivy's battling. *sigh*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver-mont View Post
    Red herring, maybe. They wanted people to expect him to defeat Ash and underestimate Kotetsu, which worked perfectly.
    Wow, did the writers... TRICK us? Wow, that was brilliant lol XD

  16. #341

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    Quote Originally Posted by AhTreyYou View Post
    Next saga seriously needs to be better. Less rivals, less captures, more training and battles for Ash's Pokemon
    The captures were fine, they just needed to be seen and battle more. *Cough Cough Palpitoad, Leavanny, Unfezent, Boldore*

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    perhaps this is karma's way of telling people to be careful of what they wish for.

    Ever since Virgil was revealed, every single person on this board assumed he would be the one to beat Ash, the one to be in his way, but at the same time i recall constant complaining about how Ash losing to the eeveelutions would be "wrong" to occur after it took legendary pokemon to stop him in the sinnoh league.

    But here we have Kotetsu with a Psuedo Legendary and a pokemon that can be regarded as a legendary, close enough to be "better" than losing to the eeveelutions right?

  18. #343
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    I´m so glad that I stopped caring about Ash about like ... 8 years ago , seriously, I only watch the series for the compannions and for the Pokémon on his party.

    And I love how the whiners defend their right to bash Best Wishes with the "I have my opinion" crap, but they bully the people that actually likes the series and defends it just because they like Best Wishes

    Back on topic: This will likely be the finals, the only thing I can say should be ... GO KATHERINE!!! I hope she still has her Mandibuzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    perhaps this is karma's way of telling people to be careful of what they wish for.

    Ever since Virgil was revealed, every single person on this board assumed he would be the one to beat Ash, the one to be in his way, but at the same time i recall constant complaining about how Ash losing to the eeveelutions would be "wrong" to occur after it took legendary pokemon to stop him in the sinnoh league.

    But here we have Kotetsu with a Psuedo Legendary and a pokemon that can be regarded as a legendary, close enough to be "better" than losing to the eeveelutions right?
    Karma's a ***** and it's better to take grains of salt lightly.

  20. #345
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    Writers: "You all hate Trip don't you? Well, here's what we are going today. We will scrap the idea of having Ash have an awesome 6 vs 6 battle in the Top 8 with his main rival Trip. That idea is gone. And instead because you all hate Trip, we will replace him with Kotetsu but instead of having Ash win at the Top 8 like he was supposed to if he battled Trip, he will lose to Kotetsu at the Top 8. And Ash won't get to battle Virgil. This is what you get for hating Trip. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all."

  21. #346
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    The complaining could still get worse. Don't forget the possibility of Kotetsu having that Gigalith has neither been confirmed or denied yet.

    ..and with this battle being the last in December, it means that it'll appear in either episode 22 under a COTD's command, or in episode 23 under Kotetsu or Ash's command.. and it blatantly won't be Ash's.

  22. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by AceDetective View Post
    hope not. the thing doesn't need 3 wins in the same fight
    Infernape didn't need 3 wins when battling Paul at the league. All it really needed was to beat Electivire and . It doesn't help that the thing got 2 wins each against Fantina, Byron, Candice, and Volkner. So if Infernape can get all of that, then Pikachu, or ANY of Ash's Pokemon are just as entitled to get 3 wins in the same fight.

    That and, Pikachu had been kinda...let down in BW. Why wouldn't Pikachu be a powerhouse this time around? After all, he was a big one in previous sagas. Hoenn/Battle Frontier? Beat a freaking Regice (Charizard had a type advantage over Articuno, Pikachu didn't have a type advantage over Regice, so yeah... but Sceptile's win vs Darkrai was better than Pikachu or Charizard's wins over their respective legendaries). Sinnoh? Tied with Latios. Unova? Beat Trip's Herp-derperior, and will beat Kotetsu's Swanna and Samarott...even though: Latios or Regice alone >>>>>>>>>> Serperior+Swanna+Samarott. Latios would probably pwn all six of Trip or Kotetsu's Pokemon for that matter.

    Would you rather have Oshawott/Snivy/Unfezant/Scraggy/etc be getting 3 wins in the same fight? Since that would be unrealistic as all hell, and would probably be very much a DEM move (and I DO know what DEM is (deux ex machina), since some misuse the word almost as much as using the term 'mary-sue') by the writers. Pikachu beating 3 pokemon in the same battle would be far more realistic than any of Ash's Unova Pokemon getting said 3 wins against Kotetsu.

    Though considering the title is 'Unova League Conclusion', then I wouldn't be surprised if Lucario defeats Pikachu which is the outcome which I'd prefer overall. Pikachu doesn't need 3 wins, though I wouldn't care if it did get a third one considering Infernape was more ridiculous. I think it would be close though, and I imagine that the full battle between Kotetsu and Virgil will probably be shown, just to pad out some time. If they choose to skip the fight (such as what they did with Tobias' match in the finals), then I am sure that the N arc/saga/whatever of Best Wishes will begin after the Unova League, OR after Iris and/or Cilan leave Ash. Though I believe Iris and Cilan are here to stay.

    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    Bianca was Ash's first female Rival. She had everything to prove here, but the only thing she managed to prove was that female Trainers are every bit as useless as the writers implied them to be for years.
    No. Bianca is one of several of Ash's rivals, and she happens to be female. Just because she is a female doesn't mean that she is entitled to anything. She can and should be able to lose just as swiftly as any of Ash's other rivals, sans the league rival. She got further than Trip, Ash's main Unova rival. Why complain about that? Emboar is her ONLY good Pokemon, and its probably the only reason she even earned her badges. Emboar was the only one shown in the League to get a win, since clearly anything she has which isn't Emboar is bound to lose. She was doomed from the start, and the only reason she didn't lose round one was because she was't battling any character of importance in said round. Had she fought Ash, Trip, Stephan, or Virgil, then she would have lost there too.

    Quit making this into a gender thing. Bianca is a lousy trainer in the BW games, so what made you think she would suddenly be awesome? Because she's a girl? She has no plot armor. I don't see you compaining how Barry did lousy in the league. Oh wait, he isn't a girl so I guess it doesn't matter right. But when a girl loses a battle, then it just HAS to be sexist by that logic. Again, Bianca has no plot armor and is not entitled to any plot armor. She isn't special, and her gender doesn't mean she deserves more. Look at Trip. Logically, he would be battling Ash in a full battle since he is the main rival and wouldn't lose in anything other than a full battle vs Ash, since he is the main rival. Realistically though, plot armor doesn't exist and if it does, it is shattered ridiculously quickly (Serperior doesn't look so tough now does it...).
    Last edited by Lunanight; 7th December 2012 at 9:12 PM.

  23. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Writers: "You all hate Trip don't you? Well, here's what we are going today. We will scrap the idea of having Ash have an awesome 6 vs 6 battle in the Top 8 with his main rival Trip. That idea is gone. And instead because you all hate Trip, we will replace him with Kotetsu but instead of having Ash win at the Top 8 like he was supposed to if he battled Trip, he will lose to Kotetsu at the Top 8. And Ash won't get to battle Virgil. This is what you get for hating Trip. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all."
    You're losing my respect Pokemanic, don't put words in the writers' mouths. That wasn't funny.

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    Sorry, but Naruto isn't using one week to make any specials. To be more specific, Naruto is having the same two week break than Pokemon. Meaning that later won't get a double special.
    I think that Pokemon is beautiful and has its charm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    perhaps this is karma's way of telling people to be careful of what they wish for.

    Ever since Virgil was revealed, every single person on this board assumed he would be the one to beat Ash, the one to be in his way, but at the same time i recall constant complaining about how Ash losing to the eeveelutions would be "wrong" to occur after it took legendary pokemon to stop him in the sinnoh league.

    But here we have Kotetsu with a Psuedo Legendary and a pokemon that can be regarded as a legendary, close enough to be "better" than losing to the eeveelutions right?
    I fail to see what's so wrong about Ash's Pokemon losing to the Eevee evolutions. At least there's some variety there and Virgil would be competent enough to give Ash a run for his money with them. But Kotetsu is just Tobias sans the Legendary Pokemon, but he still makes up for it by having one of his Pokemon evolve mid-battle and then using Hydreigon.

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