Bws2-24 Unova League Conclusion! Lucario vs Pikachu! [FIRST POST]

[AuraChannelerChris]

Having good pokemon alone doesn't mean you're a good trainer. That's like saying Kanto Ash was a good trainer for having a disobedient Charizard (an overpowered pokemon in the anime).

What I'm referring to is the trainers themselves. Their pokemon are completely irrelevant in this respect. There is one crucial negative thing Kotetsu has that neither Ritchie, nor Harrison, nor Tyson, nor Tobias have: A battle related running gag. Ash has never lost any major tournament battle to a trainer with a battle related running gag, and for a very good reason.

...And suddenly, my mind is dead set on thinking Ash trashes Kotetsu in the end. Good riddance.

[TsukiMirage]

What I meant was that it seems odd that it'll probably take Pignite, Oshawott, AND Boldore when we just had Ash beat another rampaging dragon. I think that Pignite with a Fighting move and Boldore with its huge defenses and Sandstorm and Rock Smash should be enough. I'm hoping that a Pokémon isn't sent out and gets 1HKOed

I don't care how powerful dragons are portrayed or the species, it's still Kotetsu's Pokémon which is disobedient. It would be like Ash's Charizard sweeping half of Ritchie's team in the Indigo League

Given that neither of those three are exactly powerhouses, I stick by my former answer. I don't see any of them measuring up to Krookodile, so I can't see them pulling off the same feat with less power.

And the anime has made it clear losing to a disobedient pokemon =/= losing to the trainer. We just had a major tournament to prove just that point.

If they somehow cram Ash vs Virgil in the league, then Ash vs Kotetsu would have to end quickly. Like at least 5 minutes in. Then leaving 15 minutes of Ash vs Virgil OHKO fest and then the final 2 minutes being the league conclusion. Not to mention that there would be time wasted on Cilan, Iris, Stephan, Kotetsu, and Bianca commentaries after every single move... so yeah there's no time.

Or the league concludes next episode, explain why Ash and co are still at the league. And you're presuming there would be a bunch of commentary.

[_Taidow_]

Or the league concludes next episode, explain why Ash and co are still at the league. And you're presuming there would be a bunch of commentary.

When isn't there a bunch of commentary?

[ChampioN-Trainer-BriaN]

by title i can say that its conclusion of 'unova league'. It doesnt say at all that kotetsu beats ash. Lucario vs pikachu will be a last battle of the match.then they'll quickly start 'vs virgil'....

[Almighty Zard]

serebii's anime fandom=monkey's paw.

In any case, if Pikachu loses to Lucario then i'm seriously going to question if Ash can beat one in general, since I do not count that rediculious tie from Maylene as a clear defeat.

[TheFonz]

Given that neither of those three are exactly powerhouses, I stick by my former answer. I don't see any of them measuring up to Krookodile, so I can't see them pulling off the same feat with less power.

And the anime has made it clear losing to a disobedient pokemon =/= losing to the trainer. We just had a major tournament to prove just that point.

Or the league concludes next episode, explain why Ash and co are still at the league. And you're presuming there would be a bunch of commentary.

Pignite and Boldore are two of Ash's powerhouses this region...I'm not sure what you've seen. Boldore has been shown to have crazy defense(except against Koffing) and has a great moveset that can give Hydreigon trouble. Pignite is speedy, has been Ash's go to Pokémon, and might have a fighting type move...how isn't that close to Krookodile? I'm saying those 2 added together since they're both confirmed to face Hydreigon...

I don't care about Iris and Dragonite in the Junior Cup. This is the Unova League, which is suppposed to be important. There is no point for Kotetsu to have Hydreigon other than screwing Ash over. Would it be right if Ash said to Charizard every Pokémon in the Indigo League was tougher than him and Charizard proceeded to blast every Pokémon in battle?

[Nacreous]

serebii's anime fandom=monkey's paw.

In any case, if Pikachu loses to Lucario then i'm seriously going to question if Ash can beat one in general, since I do not count that rediculious tie from Maylene as a clear defeat.

That's true.


Ash could beat one with a strong pokemon.except Ash doesn't have any in BW.Not one strong enough to match Lucario without DEM

[Lucario At Service]

Ash could beat one with a strong pokemon.except Ash doesn't have any in BW.Not one strong enough to match Lucario without DEM

Well presently only Krookodile is the one (of the Unova Team) who could defeat a Lucario without relying on any DEM.
If Palpitoad had evolved, it would also have had a chance in defeating it.

[Locormus]

...It's obvious that this is the conclusion of Ash's participation in the tournament by which I mean he loses to Kotetsu. I don't know how much clearer the summary could make it.

That's essentially what I asked, but I received no answer; instead people focused on a trivial comment I made about something else. I'm not sure whether Kotetsu's Hydreigon actually loses to one of Ash's Pokemon or if Kotetsu merely switches to Riolu and then it evolves into Lucario, ending the battle against Pikachu/Snivy/whoever.

The summary+title state two match ups, one that was left over from the previous episode even. So the summary is talking about TWO matchups and the title mentions the conclusion of the league. Conclusions of leagues take two minutes tops, going by AG, and DP, so what you are saying is that Pikachu vs. Lucario is going to take up 19 minutes? I mean seriously are you that dense? Ash vs. Tyson took 16 minutes roughly. If you shave off some excess talk, make some battles a bit quicker the Virgil battle can be 15 minutes, meaning that Ash vs. Kotetsu can be done for in 4 minutes and we can end this league with Ash getting fourth place.

You probably haven't read the summary that well if you're asking that question. The summary states that Riolu is Kotetsu's last pokemon.. -.-

The thing is, having Lucario vs. Pikachu in the title is just a better name drop then Pikachu vs. Vaporeon/Umbreon any way you slice it..

Even though I'm pretty sure Pikachu VS Lucario is confirmed, let's not forget BW027's title: "The Road to Become a Dragon Master! Kibago VS Crimgan!!"

Exactly! They're not going to keep this matchup going on forever. League ending scenes haven't lasted any longer then 2 minutes. AG took 1m10s, and DP took 2 minutes flat.

Say if Lucario finishes Ash off in 5 minutes, which for the record is excrutiatingly long for two matchups, then we would still have (substracting those 7 minutes) 15 minutes left. Now let me ask you, and the majority here in a big font:

WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH FIFTEEN MINUTES?!?! KOTETSU VS. VIRGIL???
That defeats the point of not having Ash vs. Virgil, so please people.. think a bit...

If they somehow cram Ash vs Virgil in the league, then Ash vs Kotetsu would have to end quickly. Like at least 5 minutes in. Then leaving 15 minutes of Ash vs Virgil OHKO fest and then the final 2 minutes being the league conclusion. Not to mention that there would be time wasted on Cilan, Iris, Stephan, Kotetsu, and Bianca commentaries after every single move... so yeah there's no time.

I disagree based on facts. And you mean 'like at most 5 minutes in'.. Eitherway, it's either that or a stupendously long ending to the league. The Lucario match isn't going to take ages, it's 1.5 matchup considering we know Snivy is going to lose quickly...

AG:
- Ash vs. Tyson lasted, and I counted with all the Brock, Max, Morrison and May bits, but excluding the TR-filler bits: 16m20s.
- Ending of the league lasted, and I counted: 1m10s.
- Making a total of: 17:30 minutes.

An episode is roughly 21 minutes, meaning 3m30 can be spend on those two matchups.
- Less then 0:30 on Snivy losing to Lucario
- 3 minutes on Pikachu vs. Lucario, and skipping to the next battle.

It can be done, especially when you look at other Best Wishes fights, which barely took up 30 seconds each and weren't 1HKO's..

[p96822]

So why is Ash still in unova? That is the thing that making me scrach my head because Ash could leave after the next episode

[pokemonsquared]

I just don't like the thought of eeveelutions beatinf Ash faster than legendaries.

[RealRaymon]

The summary+title state two match ups, one that was left over from the previous episode even. So the summary is talking about TWO matchups and the title mentions the conclusion of the league. Conclusions of leagues take two minutes tops, going by AG, and DP, so what you are saying is that Pikachu vs. Lucario is going to take up 19 minutes? I mean seriously are you that dense? Ash vs. Tyson took 16 minutes roughly. If you shave off some excess talk, make some battles a bit quicker the Virgil battle can be 15 minutes, meaning that Ash vs. Kotetsu can be done for in 4 minutes and we can end this league with Ash getting fourth place.

You probably haven't read the summary that well if you're asking that question. The summary states that Riolu is Kotetsu's last pokemon.. -.-

The thing is, having Lucario vs. Pikachu in the title is just a better name drop then Pikachu vs. Vaporeon/Umbreon any way you slice it..



Exactly! They're not going to keep this matchup going on forever. League ending scenes haven't lasted any longer then 2 minutes. AG took 1m10s, and DP took 2 minutes flat.

Say if Lucario finishes Ash off in 5 minutes, which for the record is excrutiatingly long for two matchups, then we would still have (substracting those 7 minutes) 15 minutes left. Now let me ask you, and the majority here in a big font:

WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH FIFTEEN MINUTES?!?! KOTETSU VS. VIRGIL???
That defeats the point of not having Ash vs. Virgil, so please people.. think a bit...



I disagree based on facts. And you mean 'like at most 5 minutes in'.. Eitherway, it's either that or a stupendously long ending to the league. The Lucario match isn't going to take ages, it's 1.5 matchup considering we know Snivy is going to lose quickly...

AG:
- Ash vs. Tyson lasted, and I counted with all the Brock, Max, Morrison and May bits, but excluding the TR-filler bits: 16m20s.
- Ending of the league lasted, and I counted: 1m10s.
- Making a total of: 17:30 minutes.

An episode is roughly 21 minutes, meaning 3m30 can be spend on those two matchups.
- Less then 0:30 on Snivy losing to Lucario
- 3 minutes on Pikachu vs. Lucario, and skipping to the next battle.

It can be done, especially when you look at other Best Wishes fights, which barely took up 30 seconds each and weren't 1HKO's..

Thank you for your time for doing all the counting, now I am sure that Ash will beat this silly kid.
Really, writers don't want to waste virgil like that + like Locormus said, let's make Pikachu &Snivy vs Lucario battle for 3-4 minutes, then vs Virgil for like 15 minutes, and league ending about 2 minutes. All is set for Ash to be in the Top4

[Locormus]

Thank you for your time for doing all the counting, now I am sure that Ash will beat this silly kid.
Really, writers don't want to waste virgil like that + like Locormus said, let's make Pikachu &Snivy vs Lucario battle for 3-4 minutes, then vs Virgil for like 15 minutes, and league ending about 2 minutes. All is set for Ash to be in the Top4

Yeah, I know it might've sounded a little harsh, but it's the reality. If they make Ash vs. Lucario any longer then they'll have a lot more time to fill with something less interesting.. Yes, they can breeze through Kotetsu vs. Virgil if they want to for some reason, but that makes a lot less sense.

Anyway, I wanted to do something more.. I'm going to mold this league into Don Battle format:

Round 1:
- Ash vs. Trip
- Bianca, Stephan, Kotetsu and Virgil vs. CotD's
Round 2:
- Ash vs. Stephan
- Kotetsu vs. Bianca
- Virgil vs. CotD
- CotD vs. CotD
Round 3:
- Ash vs. Kotetsu
- Virgil vs. CotD
Round 4:
- Ash vs. Virgil

Of course, we're skipping over two rounds, but hey.. They did skip over two rounds excluding that two second shot of Scraggy winning...

[vodor]

The summary+title state two match ups, one that was left over from the previous episode even. So the summary is talking about TWO matchups and the title mentions the conclusion of the league. Conclusions of leagues take two minutes tops, going by AG, and DP, so what you are saying is that Pikachu vs. Lucario is going to take up 19 minutes? I mean seriously are you that dense? Ash vs. Tyson took 16 minutes roughly. If you shave off some excess talk, make some battles a bit quicker the Virgil battle can be 15 minutes, meaning that Ash vs. Kotetsu can be done for in 4 minutes and we can end this league with Ash getting fourth place.

You probably haven't read the summary that well if you're asking that question. The summary states that Riolu is Kotetsu's last pokemon.. -.-

The thing is, having Lucario vs. Pikachu in the title is just a better name drop then Pikachu vs. Vaporeon/Umbreon any way you slice it..



Exactly! They're not going to keep this matchup going on forever. League ending scenes haven't lasted any longer then 2 minutes. AG took 1m10s, and DP took 2 minutes flat.

Say if Lucario finishes Ash off in 5 minutes, which for the record is excrutiatingly long for two matchups, then we would still have (substracting those 7 minutes) 15 minutes left. Now let me ask you, and the majority here in a big font:

WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH FIFTEEN MINUTES?!?! KOTETSU VS. VIRGIL???
That defeats the point of not having Ash vs. Virgil, so please people.. think a bit...



I disagree based on facts. And you mean 'like at most 5 minutes in'.. Eitherway, it's either that or a stupendously long ending to the league. The Lucario match isn't going to take ages, it's 1.5 matchup considering we know Snivy is going to lose quickly...

AG:
- Ash vs. Tyson lasted, and I counted with all the Brock, Max, Morrison and May bits, but excluding the TR-filler bits: 16m20s.
- Ending of the league lasted, and I counted: 1m10s.
- Making a total of: 17:30 minutes.

An episode is roughly 21 minutes, meaning 3m30 can be spend on those two matchups.
- Less then 0:30 on Snivy losing to Lucario
- 3 minutes on Pikachu vs. Lucario, and skipping to the next battle.

It can be done, especially when you look at other Best Wishes fights, which barely took up 30 seconds each and weren't 1HKO's..

Problem is that writer is totally inconsiderate toward Ash !
For some reason they believe mistaken Ash makes them a fair writer Which is totally wrong .
Even if Ash taking down Kotetsu in 1st half and then being defected by Virgil is the better plot , Writer inconsideration toward Ash going to let them chose other option.
I mean , Writer doesn't need to show the Whole battle between Ash & Virgil since we know that guy has nothing but Eeveelution !
So , Writer can skip most of that battle and show that Pikachu get taken down by Espion instate !

[PokemonMasters]

No they have species clause in the Anime. Remember Elesa? She used only one Emolga instead of two and replaced the second one with Tynamo.

Besides two Samurott might mean more pokes for Pikachu to kill.

WRONG! Don't remember that Ash was also left with Snivy at the end of first part of this battle. Maybe she battles a second Samurott. But yeah, if this most unlikely thing happens, it will have a boring ending.

Even though I'm pretty sure Pikachu VS Lucario is confirmed, let's not forget BW027's title: "The Road to Become a Dragon Master! Kibago VS Crimgan!!"

What is the source of this one? Giv me its link! I don't think there was any such thing confirmed.

Thank you for your time for doing all the counting, now I am sure that Ash will beat this silly kid.
Really, writers don't want to waste virgil like that + like Locormus said, let's make Pikachu &Snivy vs Lucario battle for 3-4 minutes, then vs Virgil for like 15 minutes, and league ending about 2 minutes. All is set for Ash to be in the Top4

I don't in any sense understand how Virgil could beat Ash faster than Tobias could do?! He has no legendaries to do that, only eeveelutions! And would you think that an experienced trainer like Ash gets wiped out by eeveelutions? Never!

[Doryuzu]

Problem is that writer is totally inconsiderate toward Ash !
For some reason they believe mistaken Ash makes them a fair writer Which is totally wrong .
Even if Ash taking down Kotetsu in 1st half and then being defected by Virgil is the better plot , Writer inconsideration toward Ash going to let them chose other option.
I mean , Writer doesn't need to show the Whole battle between Ash & Virgil since we know that guy has nothing but Eeveelution !
So , Writer can skip most of that battle and show that Pikachu get taken down by Espion instate !

Ash is not the freaking end-all be-all, get over Ash not kicking everyone's arse. It's not happening. People nerd to move on, Ash can lose.

[PokemonMasters]

WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH FIFTEEN MINUTES?!?! KOTETSU VS. VIRGIL???
That defeats the point of not having Ash vs. Virgil, so please people.. think a bit...

Well why can't they?! Atleast it would be a more entertaining battle than Ash vs. Virgil. I would rather see battles between powerful pokemon than see non-evolved starters get cramped in their own region by eeveelutions who come from other regions!...

[AuraChannelerChris]

It looks like all the evidence pointed out so far makes a compelling point that Ash is beating Kotetsu. And without TR selling Japanese hot dogs and taking up time (which is really small), the probabilities of Ash claiming the Top 4 are higher than we thought.

In fact, when was the last time there was a "1HKO" fest? I don't recall the writers ever going to that direction with Ash (in specific)...

I can't believe I'm saying this, but if the dub can make Kotetsu less annoying to me, I won't probably bash him too much.

[vodor]

Well why can't they?! Atleast it would be a more entertaining battle than Ash vs. Virgil. I would rather see battles between powerful pokemon than see non-evolved starters get cramped in their own region by eeveelutions who come from other regions!...

Its not Kotetsu Show !
This show is about Ash's journey to be a Pokemon Master !!!
Therefore he vs Virgil make much more sense .

[Pepsi_Plunge]

WOOOOOW

About the 15 minutes, its not like its going to be 15 mins of Kotetsu vs Virgil, they need to show the league winner after it, they have to do the goodbyes between the kids, etc Kotetsu vs Virgil is going to be fast.