Community POTW #102

[Azulart]

Mantine is a pokemon designed for Double battles/Triple battles as supporter.
And with the right help he can be such an pain to kill. Lightingrod pokemon is Mantine's best friend, he could be an nice lead with Manetric as partner.

Pure supportine
Mantine - Bold.
Leftovers
Water absord / Swift swim.
252 HP / 176 def / 76 sp.def / 6 spd.

- Scald
- Wide quard
- Confuse ray / Toxic
- Aqua ring / Rest

Wide guard to protect itself from Discharge, and support his Lightingrod teamate against the overused Earthquake or Surf incase you have Rhydon/rhyperior with lightingrod as your partner.
Scald is for burning your opponent with decent amount of power, confuse ray is rather an filler and can also be changed with Toxic depenable of your
team building. Aqua ring to increase stall in combination with leftovers, or if you want to play and quik recover go for rest, although not recommand due
Mantine being asleep is basically screwed.

Pure Offensetine
Mantine - Modest.
Leftovers / Damp rock
Swift swim.
252 Sp.attack / 76 sp.def / 176 spd. / 6 HP

- Surf / Scald
- Air slash / Rain dance
- Ice beam / Rain dance
- Toxic

More offensively based moveset, never do 252 ev's on swift swimmers unless their base speed stat is really low. (Like Armaldo)
And well I think its obivious, set up rain and try to sweep. Once there is an waller in front of you, either switch or leave it with toxic.

[HRRlion]

Counters

Rotom forms, Zebstrika, Raichu, Electabuzz, Eelektross, etc. See the pattern? Mantine is horrible against physically based electric types, whom there are lots of in NU. Rock type attacks also kill Mantine, and with stuff like Sawk running rampage, it's not hard to see why Mantine is difficult to use.

[Rayofquazar]

Mantine... How life is unfair for you! You were designed as a counterpart to the ever useful skarmory but yet you fail in taking off like the the latter did. Your main issue is the fact that you lack recovery moves and you have to rely on rest, or water absorb to heal you up! While skarmory can set up spikes, stealth rock, phaze and attack while tanking major physical hits like a champion due to it's massive amount of resistances. You, on the other hand, are not that useful. Your typing leaves you with only two weaknesses, but, unfortunately, you have the 2 worst weaknesses a tank could ever have. A 4x weakness to electric can OHKO you even through you mega Sp DEF stat (no tank ever wants a 4x weakness for any type). A second weakness to rock types is what seals your position in NU reducing a major chunk of your bulk (no tank wants a weakness to stealth rocks). Rain dance is your main asset! You can effectively set up rain on a timed switch in, but even this job hazardous as it makes opponent's thunder perfectly accurate! Maybe you can use aqua ring the way skyla did to defend swanna from pikachu's thunderbolt! Might work!

All is not lost, 140 Sp DEF is still amazing and any special move that is not electric type will do small damage to you. Toxic is a nice option as you can take out something that you don't like in your opponent's team. Toxic, usually means that this pokemon won't last long on the battlefield. Scald is another nifty toy that have the potential to weaken opponent counter that tend to explore your softer physical side! Confusion and swagger work too... But, as you can see, Matine relies too much on hax to be effective to the point that most of the time it will fall in battle easily!

Sadly, mantine is not a dangerous pokemon, skarmory is a million time more useful, but, it can be a very difficult thorn in your opponent's back to remove in some situations. The only thing that mantine has that can make skarmory jealous of is a pre-evolution mantyke. (Although I'm not sure if that's a good thing).

My idea of a set
A mantine quarantine!
Mantine@leftovers / Damp rock
Ability: Water absorb / swift swim
Nature: +Sp DEF / -ATT
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp DEF / 4 Sp ATT
Moveset:
-Scald
-Toxic
-Rain dance
-Protect
Simple, a typical stall, wall, tank, you name it, set. Set up rain dance, toxic any pokemon, stall out toxic damage with protect and scald to attack while having a chance to burn a physical attacker! The ability and item are dependable. If you decide to run swift swim, give mantine leftovers so you can heal a little after each turn. If you gave mantine water absorb, damp rock is better as it makes rain last longer. The healing can be done with a predicted switch in to a water type attack!


Mantyke with eviolite is a pretty good wall in LC... It can run a similar set as the one above with some effect!
BTW... Can you say "I'm flying a mantyke kyte on a bike" several times rapidly?

[Blue Harvest]

Counters

Rotom forms, Zebstrika, Raichu, Electabuzz, Eelektross, etc. See the pattern? Mantine is horrible against physically based electric types, whom there are lots of in NU. Rock type attacks also kill Mantine, and with stuff like Sawk running rampage, it's not hard to see why Mantine is difficult to use.

Rain Dance Mantine outruns and OHKOs literally all of the Pokemon you mentioned. Mantine isn't very easy to counter in NU without resorting to dedicated special walls like Regice (who will leave the engagement with around 20% of its remaining HP after two rain boosted Hydro Pumps) and Lickilicki (who can't do very much back besides try and stall out rain).

[Ghosts of the Forums]

Mantine... How life is unfair for you! You were designed as a counterpart to the ever useful skarmory but yet you fail in taking off like the the latter did. Your main issue is the fact that you lack recovery moves and you have to rely on rest, or water absorb to heal you up! While skarmory can set up spikes, stealth rock, phaze and attack while tanking major physical hits like a champion due to it's massive amount of resistances. You, on the other hand, are not that useful. Your typing leaves you with only two weaknesses, but, unfortunately, you have the 2 worst weaknesses a tank could ever have. A 4x weakness to electric can OHKO you even through you mega Sp DEF stat (no tank ever wants a 4x weakness for any type). A second weakness to rock types is what seals your position in NU reducing a major chunk of your bulk (no tank wants a weakness to stealth rocks). Rain dance is your main asset! You can effectively set up rain on a timed switch in, but even this job hazardous as it makes opponent's thunder perfectly accurate! Maybe you can use aqua ring the way skyla did to defend swanna from pikachu's thunderbolt! Might work!

All is not lost, 140 Sp DEF is still amazing and any special move that is not electric type will do small damage to you. Toxic is a nice option as you can take out something that you don't like in your opponent's team. Toxic, usually means that this pokemon won't last long on the battlefield. Scald is another nifty toy that have the potential to weaken opponent counter that tend to explore your softer physical side! Confusion and swagger work too... But, as you can see, Matine relies too much on hax to be effective to the point that most of the time it will fall in battle easily!

Sadly, mantine is not a dangerous pokemon, skarmory is a million time more useful, but, it can be a very difficult thorn in your opponent's back to remove in some situations. The only thing that mantine has that can make skarmory jealous of is a pre-evolution mantyke. (Although I'm not sure if that's a good thing).

My idea of a set
A mantine quarantine!
Mantine@leftovers / Damp rock
Ability: Water absorb / swift swim
Nature: +Sp DEF / -ATT
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp DEF / 4 Sp ATT
Moveset:
-Scald
-Toxic
-Rain dance
-Protect
Simple, a typical stall, wall, tank, you name it, set. Set up rain dance, toxic any pokemon, stall out toxic damage with protect and scald to attack while having a chance to burn a physical attacker! The ability and item are dependable. If you decide to run swift swim, give mantine leftovers so you can heal a little after each turn. If you gave mantine water absorb, damp rock is better as it makes rain last longer. The healing can be done with a predicted switch in to a water type attack!


Mantyke with eviolite is a pretty good wall in LC... It can run a similar set as the one above with some effect!
BTW... Can you say "I'm flying a mantyke kyte on a bike" several times rapidly?

yes i can.

have nothing useful, but maybe an all-out rain dancer and attacker set for mantyke could work in lc.

[Patri25]

ManTiMe
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Calm
Ev´s:252 HP/252 Sp.Def./4Sp.Att
Moves:
-Air Slash
-Scald
-Confuse Ray/Toxic
-Ice Beam

[Mr Spaz]

Special Sweeper
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Sp. Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
Moves
Air Slash
Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Ground

[Divine Retribution]

Special Sweeper
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Sp. Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
Moves
Air Slash
Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Ground

Rain Dance > Air Slash and Hidden Power (Grass) > Hidden Power (Ground).

[jesusfreak94]

Rain Dance > Air Slash and Hidden Power (Grass) > Hidden Power (Ground).

Offensive Mantine needs Rain Dance, but not over Air Slash. STAB Air Slash and Hydro Pump (or Surf in this case) provide almost perfect coverage, and Mantine needs that. It'd be best to put it over Ice Beam or Hidden Power, although I do agree that HP Grass should be used instead of HP Ground. Either coverage move helps, as Ice Beam hits Altaria and HP Grass hits Water types like Alomomola and Seismitoad.

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

Posting some sets before tomorrow.

Mantine@Leftovers
Calm nature - Water Absorb
252 HP - 252 Sp.Def - 4 Sp.Atk/4 Spe
-Substitute
-Swagger
-Air Slash
-Aqua Ring

First set is a flinch hax set. Mantine's not gonna have a lot of opportunities to switch in, Water Absorb and a Ground immunity can only help so much, and Base 70 Speed without investment is a cry for help. If given the chance, though, Mantine can potentially ruin a pokemon through hax alone. Substitute against a nonthreatening pokemon like Slowbro and Empoleon (somewhat non threatening), then either use Aqua Ring to recover 1/8th of your HP each turn, or start firing Swagger. If an opponent is successfully confused, start firing Air Slash, and pray to god they stay that way until they die.

Your problems: Rock Blast, which will shred your Substitutes like paper, Own Tempo pokemon, Roar users.


Mantine@Leftovers
Calm nature - Water Absorb
252 HP - 252 Sp.Def - 4 Spe
-Substitute
-Aqua Ring
-Scald
-Toxic/Air Slash

Another substitute set, but it's Mantine's staple. Substitute and Aqua Ring for protection and healing, but the difference here is Scald and Toxic. Scald is to spread burns, covering Mantine's weaker physical defenses. Toxic is for everything else, as other Water absorb pokemon will wall Mantine endlessly. Air Slash is an option over Toxic as Toxicroak is the only other water immune pokemon that is also immune to Toxic, and Air Slash will split him in half.

Your problems: Really depends on what you went with for your last slot. Water Absorb pokemon will usually wall your combo of Air Slash and Scald, but Guts pokemon will benefit from the statuses you induce. Air Slash helps as most Guts pokemon are Fighting types, so it's 50/50 here.


Mantine@Choice Specs
Modest nature - Swift Swim
252 Sp.Atk - 252 Spe - 4 HP
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Air Slash/Ice Beam
-Signal Beam
-HP Electric

An offensive set? But Mantine isn't an offensive pokemon. And you're right, he's not. But he has Swift Swim, and a usable 80 Sp.Atk base, the problem is that it's so low compared to other monstrosities out there. Swift Swim is the ability of choice here, so you'll pretty much need Rain active to make the most of Mantine. Hydro Pump or Surf, it's up to you. Air Slash is preferred over Ice Beam as Air Slash covers everything else Ice Beam does; unless you really hate Dragons. Signal Beam, while odd, is Mantine's best weapon against Psychic types and Dark Types. HP Electric finishes the set as a way to hit Water types that Mantine can't hit with everything else in his movepool (don't bring up Seed Bomb, just don't). And before you ask, why waste Mantine's huge Sp.Def on a choice set? You're not. It's that huge stat that'll allow Mantine to switch in on non Electric moves like they're nothing, and blast a hole in something with his Specs boosted items.

Your problems: Stealth Rock, big time. Also Pursuit users. Once the secret's out that you're running Specs, you aren't likely to survive those hits.


Mantine@Chesto Berry
Calm nature - Water Absorb
252 HP - 252 Sp.Def - 4 Sp.Atk
-Rest
-Tailwind
-Scald
-Air Slash/Haze

A bit different, but the point is straightforward. Without relying on Substitute and Aqua Ring, Mantine only has ChestoRest to fall back on. This Mantine isn't meant to stay in, though. His purpose is to use Tailwind, and hightail it out of there, letting other pokemon take advantage of the speed boost. Again, this should only be used against things that can't hurt Mantine. Scald is to hurt something that needs hurting, and then you have the last moveslot. You may want to stay in and abuse the speed of Tailwind and start hitting things, praying for flinch hax, but Haze has more utility. Because of Mantine's abilities, he has some opportunities to get in on an especially troublesome opponent like Slowbro or Hippowdon, then Haze if they're boosts are causing problems. While Taunt bait, Haze bypasses Substitute and Suction Cups/Ingrain.

Your problems: Stealth Rock, again. Get a spinner, for god's sake. Also faster pokemon, packing any Electric move. While obvious for all sets, this is especially true for this one, as Mantine isn't relying on Substitute and running a more set-up-and-run kind of set.


Substitute is Mantine's best move, along with Aqua Ring, as it provides him protection against the most harmful moves and allows him to actually do things. Mantine is such a 50/50 pokemon, as in, if you manage to get rid of electric pokemon or electric type users in a battle, he's very difficult to take down.

And finally, some Doubles sets to finish this post off.

Mantine@Leftovers
Calm nature - Water Absorb
252 Hp - 252 Sp.Def - 4 Atk
-Substitute
-Helping Hand
-Aqua Ring
-Scald

5th gen forged Mantine into a formidable Double battle partner, with the addition of Wide Guard and Helping Hand. Substitute and Aqua Ring for general healing, but Helping Hand is where Mantine gets bothersome. With Water Absorb, you can boost the power of a teammate's Surf or Earthquake, the most common attacks in the game, and make them even more powerful. Scald is an offensive attack so that Mantine can actually hurt something, but you'll rather just spam Helping Hand if possible.

Your problems: Discharge. The sub will only take one hit from that, leaving him exposed for the duration of the turn. A smart player will use this window of opportunity to take out Mantine, following up a Discharge with a physical attack, or, god help you, another Discharge.


Mantine@Leftovers
Calm - Water Absorb
252 HP - 252 Sp.Def - 4 Sp.Atk
-Tailwind
-Helping Hand
-Aqua Ring
-Wide Guard

What's this? A Doubles set, without Substitute?!?! Yes, it's insane, but the point of this set is that you have something to cover your electric weakness, like a Lightning Rod pokemon, or a Motor Drive switch in. Everything else Mantine can take with ease, giving him the freedom to support his teammates. Tailwind speeds up your whole team, giving you ample time to outspeed potential problems. Aqua Ring has already been explained. Helping Hand is too good, and has synergy with Wide Guard. Allow me to explain. Wide Guard will protect you from a multi target attack, like the predictable Discharge, which Lightning Rod won't protect you from. And listen up, and this is very important, you should know that every Lightning Rod Pokemon is vulnerable to a multi target move in Doubles, and I mean the likes of Rhydon, Manectric, Zapdos, Seaking, etc. But then, you see something here? All of these pokemon also have a multi target move to use as well, most of them with Discharges of their own. And the best part is, Wide Guard will protect Mantine from a teammate's Discharge, allowing Mantine a snug spot next to all pokemon with the Lightning Rod ability. For those that don't have Discharge, he can use Helping Hand instead, boosting an Earthquake or Surf in a dire time. This analysis confirms Mantine's place in Doubles, being a decent partner to the likes of Rhydon and Raichu.

Your problems: an ill timed Wide Guard or losing a Lightning Rod partner at the worst possible time. Otherwise, you should be pretty set, except for faster Rock Slides. Ugh.


Final notes: Haze and Mirror Coat are illegal. There goes that set. :/

Well, that just about does it.

[Zachmac]

^Don't use Swagger. It learns confuse ray.

Offensive Mantine needs Rain Dance, but not over Air Slash. STAB Air Slash and Hydro Pump (or Surf in this case) provide almost perfect coverage, and Mantine needs that. It'd be best to put it over Ice Beam or Hidden Power, although I do agree that HP Grass should be used instead of HP Ground. Either coverage move helps, as Ice Beam hits Altaria and HP Grass hits Water types like Alomomola and Seismitoad.

Not to mention, Air Slash is pretty much it's only niche over Kingdra.

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

^Don't use Swagger. It learns confuse ray.

Swagger is harmless against special attackers, which Mantine walls. But Confuse Ray should be slashed with it, now that you mention it.

[the3rdH0kage]

No it's not I beast Special Attackers lol (my last name is Swagger).

[MatchMaster]

While Mantine has the Special Defense stat of Skarmory's physical defense, it is outclassed by other special walls due to its typing. It does however, have a few qualities that allow it to function in NU; namely its abilities, Swift Swim and Water Absorb. While it faces competition from Frillish, it can set itself apart by its immunity to Spikes and neutrality to Grass.

Abilities
Swift Swim: Doubles speed in rain. This is good considering Mantine gets good three-move coverage along with rain dance.
Water Absorb: Restores 25% when hit by a water-type move. This is the superior ability for defensive sets.

Swift Swim
Item: Life Orb / Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Timid / Modest
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Air Slash
- Ice Beam

What sets this apart from other swift swim sweepers is its ability to threaten Ludicolo and Shedinja with Air Slash. Hydro Pump is a powerful STAB that is quite powerful despite Mantine's mediocre base 80 special attack, when factoring in rain. For example, factoring in a bit of prior damage, it has a chance of OHKOing Specialy defensive Regirock. Ice Beam is mainly a filler, but is Mantine's strongest move against Zweilous, who would otherwise destroy you with a powerful Outrage.

[Ilan]

No it's not I beast Special Attackers lol (my last name is Swagger).

I think it is the opposite special attackers are better to attack with swagger since they don't get the boost..
also confusion is horribly unreliable so try not to use it..

[Zachmac]

Swagger is harmless against special attackers, which Mantine walls. But Confuse Ray should be slashed with it, now that you mention it.

Confuse Ray is more accurate than Swagger, and has no risky side effects against physical attackers.

I suppose Swagger can cause enemies to hurt themselves more in confusion more, but even then, that's still risky.

[Soperman]

So, I'm kinda late to this party. Only slightly.
Don't know much about Mantine, besides it being one of the very few pokemon with massive Special Defense but only decent typing to pair with it. It's weak to Electric, which boasts one of the most common coverage moves in all of pokemon, Thunderbolt. It also doesn't resist ice, which is bad. Unfortunately for it, it has a very bad movepool, putting it solidly in NU. Not much else to say...