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Thread: Strong Strategy Steals the Show! (767)

  1. #76
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    After watching the episode, the phrase "if you've seen one Pokemon battle, you've seen them all" suddenly came to mind. Like really, that was the most boring battle I've seen in a long time. I don't completely blame Ash for that though; it's Stephan that was the problem. I've just never found him to be interesting in the slightest and his Pokemon are also incredibly bland. Long story short, I couldn't get into the battle. But back to Ash, even though he wasn't the main issue here, it was still a huge disappointment that his Pokemon used several new moves right out of the blue. And I'm not accepting the tired "he trained them off-screen" excuse. It doesn't justify the deus ex machina. But again, it wasn't all-bad. At least Ash's reserve Pokemon got some screen-time. That's always a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    After watching the episode, the phrase "if you've seen one Pokemon battle, you've seen them all" suddenly came to mind. Like really, that was the most boring battle I've seen in a long time.
    I'm not here to fight with you about your opinion... (entirely)...

    but I found this to be one of the best battles this season. If not the best one...:/...

    I am also very easily accepting of the whole "new moves" thing...Its a style different from DP, and makes it so the transition back to DP like battles (Forgive me for compaing the two -.-) really easy. Or heck, This battle had its own unique flair to it...The battle was fast paced, close, and made sense. (discounting the logical fally that would make all battles boring).


    I loved leveany here... I don't care if it got a win, it kicked ***, and battle looked awesome. I only had two minor flaws...

    First of all, that was some incrediabtly cheap use of animation redux there...
    Stephan: Karate Chop! *Comes down from above*
    Ash: Dodge!
    *insert the same clip that was used for dodging close combat*
    ....................that killed the scene a little bit for me. >3>


    and the other was how awkward Krokodile looked in the animation...I couldn't explain it, but something was off...oh well, thats really minor. Great battle overall.
    When refering to learning..."In other words, groups are not where ideas are born. Groups are where ideas are evaluated."
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    After watching the episode, the phrase "if you've seen one Pokemon battle, you've seen them all" suddenly came to mind. Like really, that was the most boring battle I've seen in a long time. I don't completely blame Ash for that though; it's Stephan that was the problem. I've just never found him to be interesting in the slightest and his Pokemon are also incredibly bland. Long story short, I couldn't get into the battle. But back to Ash, even though he wasn't the main issue here, it was still a huge disappointment that his Pokemon used several new moves right out of the blue. And I'm not accepting the tired "he trained them off-screen" excuse. It doesn't justify the deus ex machina. But again, it wasn't all-bad. At least Ash's reserve Pokemon got some screen-time. That's always a good thing.
    I would agree with you if Ash's Pokemon learned these moves mid-battle, which is what people have been complaining about (along with mid-battle evos) for most of the region. But Ash went into the battle fully knowing, and even adding to his strategy, the new moves of his Pokemon. So yes, the "he trained them off-screen" excuse actually holds up here.

    (credit goes to Skiyomi)

  4. #79
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    Poor Leavanny......he should of beat Liepard ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    That's a nice convenient excuse. But honestly, if Ash's pokemon are "training" off-screen, then that means Axew must be too. I hate how people give the little guy such a hard time just because he isn't independent.



    Why am I being labeled as the bad guy when I just want the best for everyone? I don't support one pokemon being glorified while the rest are made to look inferior. I'm not against Krookodile getting a win, but taking two wins while Leavanny and Palpitoad bite the dust is just unacceptable. I don't care how "cool" you think Krookodile is....the last thing we need is another Infernape glorification.

    This could've been the battle where people finally see Leavanny and Palpitoad as real competitors on Ash's team, but the result was Krookodile taking all the glory. Smh!
    Not an excuse, the writers imply it well enough that Ash trains off-screen.

    Anyone who can't see that the writers did in fact portray Leavanny and Palpitoad as capable Pokemon here are just overreacting. Palpitoad and Zebstrika ended in a draw, Leavanny did the most damage against Sawk, you don't need to win to be known as a "competitor" it's how you battle is what determines how good you are.
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    Hey look eeleektrik finally came.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Hey look eeleektrik finally came.
    No it didn't. That was Eelektross.

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    Liepard vs Krookodile was okay I thought the battle is going to be a draw so glad Krookodile defeated Liepard.

    Sawk vs Krookodile was amazing

    I thought the Unova League arena will be closed for nighttime it should have been closed for nighttime so Ash and Kotetsu won't get in.

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    I noticed that Krookodile stars in this episode the same week where he is set to debut in English. He's 3-0 in his current stage I don't see him losing anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Ken View Post
    I noticed that Krookodile stars in this episode the same week where he is set to debut in English. He's 3-0 in his current stage I don't see him losing anytime soon.
    We don't know if they will have much of a chance to battle in the future, if the next arc is just about N(which I doubt), they won't have many chance to get more wins or loses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Ash was given a three months to train. The writers obviously didn't want to bore us by showing those training things. New moves were always expected from them. I'm sorry but you are horribly biased.

    And Krookodile didn't hoard on Leavanny's win. It was Leavanny's Win! Krookodile only used Aerial Ace to finish what Leavanny done. Leavanny was shown as a ****ing hero. Anyone who saw the episode and is not being biased would say this. Krookodile barely battled Sawk, it wasn't even a proper battle. It was just to show how powerful Sawk. It justified the writers showing Sawk as super powerful Pokemon in the Donamite.

    Just to remind you again. It was Levanny's win, Krookodile only used a finishing move.
    Sadly it doesn't work that way. Leavanny didn't KO anyone despite doing most of the work. It's that reason why this battle has left a bitter taste in my mouth because Krookodile just picked the weak bones and took the glory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Krookodile isn't Infernape. It is not the Infernape of Unova. I think you haven't even watched the episode. You might be commenting after watching episode pictures or reading synopsis. Why do you care about wins? It's not the end result but the struggle that matters. Leavanny struggling to weaken Sawk, and Krookodile finishing it was realistic. Sawk was shown to be Kenyan's best Pokemon. It's only obvious that Ash couldn't defeat it so easily. This battle is perfect. But of course all you care is counting wins, and using them to use words like 'glorification' 'DEM' etc.
    You can point that deluded finger of yours somewhere else because I did watch it. Wins do matter and Leavanny was suckered out of a win just so they could glorify Krookodile even more, just like they did with Infernape. The writing on the wall and evidence is right here in front of us so unless you're oblivious to what's being shown, you can't say using words like 'glorifcation' is wrong. Krookodile shouldn't have gotten two wins here...it should've just gotten one so Ash's other pokes could've also had their moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gliscor&yanmega View Post
    you don't need to win to be known as a "competitor" it's how you battle is what determines how good you are.
    Apparently not because no matter how hard Leavanny may have battled, Krookodile is still the only Pokemon getting praise here. That is glorification in its most blatant form.

    And I still don't understand why some people are pulling out the "off-screen training" card like it's completely valid. If training isn't shown on-screen, then it shouldn't be cited as a justification for Ash's Pokemon learning a ton of new moves. ITT: training doesn't truly take place unless we see it. I really don't know why anyone would defend lazy writing. :x

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    I quite like how Krookodile's praise is being increased, granted it's a bit too much development but that doesn't stop him from being awesome to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    You can point that deluded finger of yours somewhere else because I did watch it. Wins do matter and Leavanny was suckered out of a win just so they could glorify Krookodile even more, just like they did with Infernape. The writing on the wall and evidence is right here in front of us so unless you're oblivious to what's being shown, you can't say using words like 'glorifcation' is wrong. Krookodile shouldn't have gotten two wins here...it should've just gotten one so Ash's other pokes could've also had their moment.

    Okay, enough with the glorification =_=...Look it, they wanted it to look close, make it feel closer...so what did they do? They made it so leveany didn't get the win, but did most of the damage. Then because Sawk is \ a fighting type, they though it was a nice way to put ash in a tight spot, yet still pull the underdog win. Thats for the audience and for a better battle. Give Krokodile the disadvantaged win by using a move that has atvantage over Sawk. Surpirse factor. If we didn't spoil ourselves, we would of totally reacted to the Aerial ace a lot differently. If you're talking about praise in universe...then I'm not sure, but no one's putting down leveany here at all.

    As for how much wins matter...Yeah, they matter, but not when you did most of the **** to damage the pokemon =-=...This is pokemon, how are they not gonna praise their pokemon for a good job anyway?

    What praise are you specifically talking about thats going to Krokodile and not to leveany...? Yeah she didn't get the win, but we acknowledged the fact that she did most of the work, and praised her for an excellent job...We're just pointing out facts when we say Krokodile got the "win", we're not saying leveany didn't do most of the work.

    How about time management? Don't they have an obligation to show off as many of the pokemon as possible? They also have to introduce all of the characters...This isn't sinnoh where they gave themselves so much room to have training montages comparatively. (Cough fillers cough).

    And why are we defending it? Because we don't think its oh so horrible like you're saying it is. ._...
    When refering to learning..."In other words, groups are not where ideas are born. Groups are where ideas are evaluated."
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    Finally saw the episode when I got some spare time.

    I really liked the battle. Probably my favourite in Best Wishes 2, actually. I think it was a pretty fair fight and it was handled well. Highlights include Krookodile escaping from Hyper Beam's tract by digging into a trench, Zebstrika getting confused and attacking the wall and Krookdile clotheslining Sawk.

    The only thing that really bugged me was Leavanny only using String Shot and X-Scissor. Krookdile suddenly pulling out Aerial Ace was on the edge, but it worked because both Pokemon were fatigued and Sawk was not portrayed as a jacked overpowered god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Apparently not because no matter how hard Leavanny may have battled, Krookodile is still the only Pokemon getting praise here. That is glorification in its most blatant form.

    And I still don't understand why some people are pulling out the "off-screen training" card like it's completely valid. If training isn't shown on-screen, then it shouldn't be cited as a justification for Ash's Pokemon learning a ton of new moves. ITT: training doesn't truly take place unless we see it. I really don't know why anyone would defend lazy writing. :x
    What are you talking about, in the show or the viewers? Either way, Krookodile isn't the only one being "praised", pretty sure Ash did his "good job" to Leavanny and Palpitoad after their hard work, and viewers seem to notice the two did something of worth in the battle(Which was made clear enough in the episode itself, so so long as you don't try and make problems that aren't there then there really shouldn't be an issue). So no, no glorification, just people overacting, like always.

    It's not a "card". It's also not meant to be used to "defend lazy writing". Training isn't something that shows are going to want to show every second of as most of the time it's not even of anything of worth. When it comes down to it, Ash trains, on and off-screen. There is no need to justify what the writers did, they didn't do anything wrong, people just overacting...again...like always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    Finally saw the episode when I got some spare time.

    I really liked the battle. Probably my favourite in Best Wishes 2, actually. I think it was a pretty fair fight and it was handled well. Highlights include Krookodile escaping from Hyper Beam's tract by digging into a trench, Zebstrika getting confused and attacking the wall and Krookdile clotheslining Sawk.

    The only thing that really bugged me was Leavanny only using String Shot and X-Scissor. Krookdile suddenly pulling out Aerial Ace was on the edge, but it worked because both Pokemon were fatigued and Sawk was not portrayed as a jacked overpowered god.
    Leavanny used Razor Leaf and Energy ball too did you really watch it Oo ?
    Last edited by Pepsi_Plunge; 15th December 2012 at 8:57 AM.

  18. #93
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    I'm really impressed with Leavanny. I didn't expect it to do so well and he clearly deserved to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    The only thing that really bugged me was Leavanny only using String Shot and X-Scissor.
    What do you mean? Leavanny also used Energy Ball and Razor Leaf.

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    Well this was actually a good battle, but like everyone else, I'm kinda pissed that Leavanny didn't get a win.

    Well, at least we now know who's Ash's definite powerehouse of BW. xD


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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    Sadly it doesn't work that way. Leavanny didn't KO anyone despite doing most of the work. It's that reason why this battle has left a bitter taste in my mouth because Krookodile just picked the weak bones and took the glory.
    You have the wrong notion about glory. In fact many of us, judging by the posts accept that Leavanny was responsible for Sawk losing. Krookodile only finished it with Aerial Ace. A difference of one move, which is justifiable because Sawk is Stpehan's Number 1 Pokemon.

    Just because Krookodile finished the match doesn't mean it took the glory. It was a team effort. You are the one *****ing about glory.


    You can point that deluded finger of yours somewhere else because I did watch it. Wins do matter and Leavanny was suckered out of a win just so they could glorify Krookodile even more, just like they did with Infernape. The writing on the wall and evidence is right here in front of us so unless you're oblivious to what's being shown, you can't say using words like 'glorifcation' is wrong. Krookodile shouldn't have gotten two wins here...it should've just gotten one so Ash's other pokes could've also had their moment.
    There's a **** load of difference between Infernape and Krookodile. Infernape defeated Aggron, Ninjask and Electivire all by himself. He actually did most of the damage to all the three Pokemon. As a Chimchar, he had many amazing wins under his belt. Infernape was overpowered when compared to the rest of his team.

    But Krookodile wasn't the same. It barely defeated Liepard, and it won against Sawk only because Ash had Aerial Ace as a surprise move. He defeated Dragonite only because its berserk. You are the one deluding yourself by thinking that Krookodile and Infernape are getting similar treatment.

    As I said, the only thing you care is count wins. Its a bad habit of yours. Its not the wins that matter, but the struggle. Is it so hard to look things that way? It's definitely easy to hate certain character. You can just use a lousy example.

    But it's hard to disprove otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gliscor&yanmega View Post
    It's not a "card". It's also not meant to be used to "defend lazy writing". Training isn't something that shows are going to want to show every second of as most of the time it's not even of anything of worth. When it comes down to it, Ash trains, on and off-screen. There is no need to justify what the writers did, they didn't do anything wrong, people just overacting...again...like always.
    Yet every other anime except this show shows on screen training anyway... seriously, even if it's implied to happen off screen, why should we expect it to happen? Why can't they at least show them practicing the move instead of pulling them out of thin air?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Yet every other anime except this show shows on screen training anyway... seriously, even if it's implied to happen off screen, why should we expect it to happen? Why can't they at least show them practicing the move instead of pulling them out of thin air?
    Not always. But I guess more then this series did.

    I just personally don't care that much. I LIKE watching training, and struggle. But I don't think moves always should require an episode to train to learn a move.
    When refering to learning..."In other words, groups are not where ideas are born. Groups are where ideas are evaluated."
    My eyes! (my eyes!) are filled with curiosity! You think! (You think!) that you have power over me! In this life! (This life!) There’s no room for you and me! So turn around and face the day with me!
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  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Yet every other anime except this show shows on screen training anyway... seriously, even if it's implied to happen off screen, why should we expect it to happen? Why can't they at least show them practicing the move instead of pulling them out of thin air?
    Most shows I've seen that have training usually don't show the whole thing(It always goes back and forth to training then some other thing happening). Also, I'm pretty sure most shows don't show training that doesn't lead anywhere most of the time, yet they do it sometimes so people know the characters are training at whatever it is they are doing. Pokemon still has on-screen training anyways.

    As for why they didn't show it prior to the battle, they probably want more excitement out of the battles, they probably don't think people would overreact and and try to create problems that aren't there.
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    Still peeved about that battle against Sawk.. It was Leavanny who dealt all the damage, who wore it down, who should've gotten the victory..

    But no, Krookodile sweeps in with a Dragon Claw and a conveniently learned Aerial Ace and gets a second win that it certainly didn't need. Unsurprising, since they rarely put much effort into making anything decent anymore, but annoying all the same.

    If I wasn't so attached to Pokemon, with it being the last shred of my childhood I can cling on to, then I'd have seriously given up on this terrible anime team by now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyCharyZard View Post
    Still peeved about that battle against Sawk.. It was Leavanny who dealt all the damage, who wore it down, who should've gotten the victory..

    But no, Krookodile sweeps in with a Dragon Claw and a conveniently learned Aerial Ace and gets a second win that it certainly didn't need. Unsurprising, since they rarely put much effort into making anything decent anymore, but annoying all the same.

    If I wasn't so attached to Pokemon, with it being the last shred of my childhood I can cling on to, then I'd have seriously given up on this terrible anime team by now.
    It's unfortunate that there's even more losers in this league then there's ever been before. Sure I guess we should be glad that Leavanny put up a good fight, but at the end of the day, it still really didn't amount to anything.

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