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Thread: American Politics: THANKS OBAMA

  1. #251
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    Just curious but where is the liberal outrage? I remember years ago this board being filled with leftists who were shaking their fists at Bush for "Spying" on them and their phone calls, that Bush should go to jail for breaching their privacy, and that Bush was a war criminal for waterboarding. And then now the White Paper comes out that Obama has granted himself the ability to circumvent due process and kill any American he believes is engaging in treason. Now killing a American seems to be a FAR worse crime than waterboarding someone. But I do not see anyone stepping up and attacking Obama for his "war crimes"

  2. #252
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    Federal Bureau of Investigation: Federal Agents Arrest Man After He Attempts to Bomb Bank in Oakland

    Sheesh. I guess President Barack Obama and California Republicans and Democrats will be even busier now that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has this new alert. Matthew Llaneza was caught attempting to bomb a bank just across Interstate 80 from San Francisco, and the agents tracking him first made contact with him a little over two months ago. He wanted to support and train Taliban operatives in Afghanistan, and to prove himself, he proposed an attack against a bank. The format I consider the most striking part of this arrest: Llaneza wanted to set up the attack “to make it appear that the responsible party was an umbrella organization for a loose collection of anti-government militias and their sympathizers”, with his stated goal being “to trigger a governmental crackdown, which he expected would trigger a right-wing counter-response against the government followed by, he hoped, civil war”. The attack was timed to occur last night, but thankfully, the bomb had already been rendered inoperable. I’m certain that the Taliban would at least consider applauding his struggle against us, and had Llaneza succeeded, well, the divisions would explain themselves. It might not take much else for other countries to experience similar escalations.:

    Irrawaddy: William Boot: Neighbors’ Business Plans Stall at Burma’s Borders
    Diplomat: Steve Finch: Despite Crackdown on Dissent, Can Vietnam Reform?

    Oh, boy. The ongoing instability among Burma’s ethnic groups has its neighbors nervous about finalization of investment deals, from bridges to offshore natural gas. “Many planned economic projects” have ground to a halt, such as the modernization of Sittwe Port and that superhighway between India and Thailand, and even face-to-face discussions between Burmese President Thein Sein and Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra have failed to generate the wanted momentum. As it is, most of those armed ethnic groups, such as the United Wa State Army and the Kachin Independence Army, “occupy border regions”, and the “murky” system of regulations under the Burmese military commanders’ old regime made China the only prosperous country within it. Burma is going to need investments in functional electricity and long-range communications, rules for land tenure and foreign exchange, and specialized teams for administrative projects. Vietnam could have similar problems, in addition to these crackdowns. Intellectuals and church leaders have joined forces with former and current officials from the Vietnamese Communist Party in calling for constitutional revisions that allow elections among multiple parties and define and separate executive, legislative, and judicial powers. Bad regulations risk more ridicule from the general populace, so President Truong Tan Sang will need “meaningful” and “tangible” reforms to accompany the proposed revisions, most likely during their scheduled ratification this upcoming October. Interestingly, it’s Burma’s recent journey of reform that has made the corruption inside the Vietnamese Communist Party more visible, and I’m certain that Indian and Israeli executives would be eager to persuade their Vietnamese counterparts just why corruption makes them untrustworthy. Public participation in these revisions has been encouraged at the highest levels, so in a way, the genie of freedom is, so to speak, out of the bottle, lamp, or whatever device was used. These party leaders could welcome advice from us in this country, and Congress might be even closer to implementing several initiatives on its own toward this end.:

    Daily Caller: Charles Johnson: Menendez donor leveraged ‘Occupy’ movement to take aim at Bank of America
    Roll Call: Tea Party Changes Tack to Hit McConnell
    US News and World Report: Rebekah Metzler: Marco Rubio, Rand Paul Strike Out to Rebrand Their Party

    Whoever’s investigating Dr. Salomon Melgen might notice quite a round of collusion, if the major companies in question are to be examined more closely. He worked with those Occupy Wall Street protesters back in the fall of 2011 against Bank of America, but his efforts ended up confined to Miami. Of course, even earlier, in 2010, he and his team launched a campaign to “warn foreign investors” that their money would be in danger as long as it remained inside this country, and his family has donated to now-former Senator Christopher Dodd, once involved with banking regulations, as well as securities and investment. I suppose the Tea Partiers will be ever more alert leading to this new speech out of the President of America this upcoming Tuesday. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner have a bridge for motorists directly between their respective states, but the former wasn’t able to come up with necessary money to upgrade the bridge. Barack Obama went to that bridge to “pressure Republicans to back more infrastructure spending”… to no avail, and now, Tea Party activists face skepticism from Senator Rand Paul, also based in Kentucky. Ironically, the current earmark ban has rendered McConnell, among other politicians known for bringing money back to their constituencies, much less able to maintain that approach, and for Paul’s part, he could encourage alternate channels for transportation expenses to further upgrade this country. He and Florida Senator Marco Rubio are planning to respond to this speech with points about expanded appeal, presumably with reflections on basic Republican principles. While Paul worries about congressional irrelevance in foreign policy, Rubio had a bit of a fun exchange involving things like climate change. I guess the wheels in Washington, D.C.’s circles will start turning more quickly in the coming days, but somehow, I find myself less worried and more refreshed about these and other trends than other political and cultural junkies could be.
    Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Just curious but where is the liberal outrage? I remember years ago this board being filled with leftists who were shaking their fists at Bush for "Spying" on them and their phone calls, that Bush should go to jail for breaching their privacy, and that Bush was a war criminal for waterboarding. And then now the White Paper comes out that Obama has granted himself the ability to circumvent due process and kill any American he believes is engaging in treason. Now killing a American seems to be a FAR worse crime than waterboarding someone. But I do not see anyone stepping up and attacking Obama for his "war crimes"
    Because I find funny Americans are upset about this, he can kill non americans and they are okay with it, but if he kills an american they suddenly get angry. Load of bs in my eyes, if they stop seeing themselves as superious then I might have an "outrage" about this. Before that, only fair he can also kill americans without progress right?
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  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Because I find funny Americans are upset about this, he can kill non americans and they are okay with it, but if he kills an american they suddenly get angry. Load of bs in my eyes, if they stop seeing themselves as superious then I might have an "outrage" about this. Before that, only fair he can also kill americans without progress right?
    Difference is non Americans do not have rights to a trial under the constitution, there is nothing superior about that, it is merely the fact that he is ignoring the rights his own citizens have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Difference is non Americans do not have rights to a trial under the constitution, there is nothing superior about that, it is merely the fact that he is ignoring the rights his own citizens have.
    Yeah I get that, and I find that hypocritical. I am sorry but I am not gonna care about americans dieing without a trial when someone from another can be killed by your government without people there making a big fuss about it.
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    I'd have Barack changing the US against Mitt anyday! Speaking from a UK perspective, Barack would me more internationally cooperate & understanding!
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  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion Demon View Post
    I'd have Barack changing the US against Mitt anyday! Speaking from a UK perspective, Barack would me more internationally cooperate & understanding!
    That is kind of ironic seeing how Obama has shown so much contempt for the UK that one could say he is the most anti British President we have had in decades

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    Unfortunately, that assumes that the countries of the world – some of whom I’ve mentioned and emphasized within this thread – will even be able to survive our brand of modernization. The very people whom Senators Rand Paul and Marco Rubio and their comrades are attempting to reach could reject their explanations for that reason, and that’d be it because envy and resentment would be all that such individuals and groups would have left. Sympathizers to the Tea Party and the Republican Party establishment, so to speak, could thus start hunkering down, and energy and information companies and any remaining American Christian leaders could share concerns as President Barack Obama’s newest State of the Union draws nearer, inside or outside this country. Indeed, one of those aforementioned countries already looks to be well on its way to escalating instability from Islam.:

    Jamestown Foundation: Mairbek Vatchagaev: Is the Caucasus Emirate Encroaching on the Volga Region?
    Jamestown Foundation: Paul Goble: Moscow Patriarchate Expands Missionary Work among Non-Russians, Setting the Stage for Conflicts with Muslim Nations

    The Caucasus Emirate, an ally of Al-Qaeda, has dispatched agents to expand operations along the Volga River, heading close to Moscow, and officials gained approval from Russian President Vladimir Putin to host a conference to counter the popularity of some Sharia theologians from the North Caucasus. Among the attendees was one Farid Salman Haydarov, who leads the Ulema Council of the Russian Association of Islamic Accord… and concluded that as the Salafis gained more influence, the Chechens oriented themselves toward jihad. That said, they’re not the only ones. Someone from Russia’s Far East fought alongside the Chechens, which could and should merit further study. Interestingly, these experts recommended the deconstruction of the Salafis’ doctrines, and the Moscow Patriarchate could help them do just that. Kirill I wants to expand missionary work in Russia’s northernmost areas, closest to the North Pole, because the populace there has resisted Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, and Islamic conversions. The Moscow Patriarchate set up specialized missionary sites where Orthodox missionaries could preach to the local people, as they did during the Russian Empire, before the Bolsheviks overran the country. It resulted in the conversion of at least some Muslim Tatars and Azeris, presumably making new friction more likely. Vladimir Zhirinovsky of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia could be most likely to staunchly reject this vision in favor of a resurgent Russian Empire, but the Salafis and the Putinists, military manufacturers and religious scholars alike, would presumably need to concentrate their movements in the coming years, coursing through Turkey’s easternmost areas down into Syria. The Al-Nusra Front and the Caucasus Emirate could call on their brethren still scattered across North Africa, thus escalating the turbulence.:

    France 24: Mali troops arrest two men with explosives near Gao
    Reuters: Tunisian Islamists rally to show ‘power of street’

    The Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa could safely count as a rival to Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb because the latter developed a racial orientation against members of the former. As MOJWA focuses on recruitment among the West African population, acting Malian President Dioncounda Traore has mutinous factions within his military to deal with. Fortunately, the terrorists haven’t fared much better, between today’s arrests and yesterday’s apparent suicide attack. I’m certain that their sympathizers, whether in Tunisia or Egypt, will continue to preach as vociferously as they can to provide a constant framework for their strikes. They could use the new protests after Chokri Belaid’s assassination to their advantage, calling on the mosques they control, while tens of thousands rally against them. For their part, they’ve also railed against France’s influence in that country, so that France now looks like the main American ally fighting Sharia supremacy in North Africa. We should be certain to help it and our other allies straight away.:

    Hill Hillicon Valley: Walden proposes Internet freedom bill
    Christian Science Monitor: Mark Clayton: Cybersecurity: how preemptive cyberwar is entering the nation’s arsenal

    Give Oregon Congressperson Greg Walden the credit for this proposal, however symbolic it could be, for a free Internet as official American policy. There was a hearing to “scrutinize international efforts to regulate the Internet”, such as the International Telecommunications Union, but perhaps outgoing Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta already thought ahead. Our cyberweapons have new policies going for them, granting the United States Cyber Command a broader “operational role” within our military hierarchy. As legal hurdles get passed, other major incidents are popping into the minds of cyberwarfare experts, such as Stuxnet’s past damage to Iran’s nuclear capabilities. Among the retired military officers who pushed this is retired General James Cartwright, who shares worries that a virus uploaded by, say, the Chinese Communist Party could turn into a cyberweapon of mass destruction. The Department of Homeland Security has its own upgrades and plans to put in motion, and the Democratic and Republican National Committees should be able to review their own Internet security protocols. House Speaker John Boehner could welcome many of the implications in this technological transition.:

    Roll Call: Taking Measure of the RSC’s New Leader

    Huh. With the Republican Study Committee’s continuous agenda, Louisiana Representative Steve Scalise’s chairmanship has the attention of at least a few members out of concerns that he “solicited leadership help” in getting the position. Georgia Representative Tom Graves was the main competitor, but both men have been able to work together on the main points. Graves and Scalise made a point of avoiding personal vendettas by any of their colleagues, and the latter made his opinions known during that fiscal cliff fiasco at the start of this year. Others, such as the Heritage Foundation’s grassroots branch, are pointing to the upcoming sequestration fight to determine the most likely course of the Republican Study Committee. For my part, I’d turn my focus to the next few days as a launching point.
    Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Just curious but where is the liberal outrage? I remember years ago this board being filled with leftists who were shaking their fists at Bush for "Spying" on them and their phone calls, that Bush should go to jail for breaching their privacy, and that Bush was a war criminal for waterboarding. And then now the White Paper comes out that Obama has granted himself the ability to circumvent due process and kill any American he believes is engaging in treason. Now killing a American seems to be a FAR worse crime than waterboarding someone. But I do not see anyone stepping up and attacking Obama for his "war crimes"
    Because they believe Obama can do no wrong. He's mister wonderful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond, king of ducks View Post
    Because they believe Obama can do no wrong. He's mister wonderful.
    Find me a liberal who believes that. Go on, I'll wait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    Find me a liberal who believes that. Go on, I'll wait.
    Want to go through some of the ways liberals have bent over backwards to support Obama's drone killing?

    Try the Daily Beast Michael Tomasky who spent years attacking Bush and Chaney about anything on the war on terror.

    "I’ve always written about politics with part of my brain focused on the question of what I would do if I were in Politician X’s position. This line of thought came so naturally to me that I imagined everyone did this…. [The memo is] certainly not something that makes the breast swell with pride. But it does make me wonder what I would do in this situation, and I can’t honestly come up with easy answers.

    Well, either this makes a certain sense to you, or you just think that a state can’t be in the business of killing its own citizens and that’s all there is to it. There’s no doubt that a sentence like “the president has the power to order the assassination of American citizens” sounds positively despotic. However, these are people who have gone off and joined Al Qaeda (the white paper also mentions “associated groups,” and one definitely wonders where that line is drawn, precisely). If an American citizen of German descent had gone back to…Germany in 1934 and joined the Nazi Party and worked his way up such that he was involved in the plotting of attacks against American soldiers, and Roosevelt had order him killed, no one would have batted an eye in 1940s America."

    http://reason.com/archives/2013/02/0...-to-know-which

    Now suddenly Obama has the power to kill Americans? "Well we need to put ourselves in his shoes"

    How about MSNBC?

    "There is something about this drone debate, though, that is driving me nuts. And that is the charge, mostly by Republicans, that if you feel any different about the drone program under President Obama than you would have under President George W. Bush, you are an utter, hopeless hypocrite. Let me ask you a question. How would you feel about a Madeleine Albright panel on women and body image? Okay, now how do you feel about a Larry Flynt panel on women and body image? How do you feel about your kid in Dr. Ruth's sex-ed class versus Todd Akin's? Do you feel different about Warren Buffett setting standards for financial ethics versus Bernie Madoff? Of course you do, because you're normal. But according to the Republican logic used during this drone debate, if you feel any different about the Madeleine Albright and Larry Flynt panels, you are a hypocrite. "

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...itical/273018/

    See Bush is the same as the Criminal Bernie Madoff, or the woefully uninformed Todd Akin. But Obama, Obama we can trust with these killings, because... well she never explained that, but we are to assume that Obama has the same knowledge and grace as Warren Buffet, Dr Ruth, and Madeleine Albright.

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    Fox News Channel: Already a ‘Failure of Management’, UN Computer Project Turns Out to be an Epic Shambles for Ban Ki-Moon
    Fox News Channel: Ron Paul Files Complaint with UN Agency in Fight over Namesake Website

    Huh. The clock ticks down to President Barack Obama’s new State of the Union, and United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon has more than a bit of lag time, which now-former Texas Representative Ron Paul’s new complaint probably won’t help to alleviate. Umoja, a computerized management system intended to assist calls for reform within the United Nations bureaucracy, jumped from a starting cost of $285.6 million in 2008 to a projected cost of $348.2 million by 2015, and since most of the money comes right out of United Nations peacekeeping operations, the Obama administration is stuck trying to wring it out of whatever sources it can find. Any work after 2015 will mean that the United Nations is at risk of continuing any weak spots in its current information and long-range communications systems. The project managers face dissolution and replacement with a nonexistent center of excellence, and spending for those systems is dispersed under many departments, not consolidated under one senior management group. The administrators have yet to figure out how to account for $123 million through April 2012 because there was no system linking the project’s budget to deadlines and deliverable supplies. Perhaps most painfully, many United Nations departments simply don’t recognize the potential of this informational capitalism in addressing new issues, “an epic failure of vision” for that intergovernmental group. Dr. Paul might not fare much better after this complaint. The World Intellectual Property Organization received some points to review about RonPaul.com because the website has supporters of the former presidential candidate behind it. The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers arranged this “private arbitration”, but the domain owners used an Australian registrar to register the site. For the activists’ part, they’re willing to sell not just the site but also their mailing site for $250,000, which could secure some new smaller-scale donors for them, I guess. David Goldman’s analyses told me that Ron Paul would be the Republican Party’s worst possible choice during the presidential election, but at any rate, his son is now taking a crack at dissecting the Democratic Party’s main factions, one of which has me blinking in total confusion as of this moment.:

    Daily Caller: Alex Pappas: Democrats bringing illegal immigrants as guests to State of the Union

    Immigration and Customs Enforcement is making a point of keeping its hands as far away from this turn of events, and I can’t say I blame anyone in it. Illinois Representative Luis Gutierrez, Texas Representative Marc Veasey, Florida Representative Kathy Castor, and even First Lady Michelle Obama are joining in, presumably with their own picks, but I suppose it’ll be up to this country’s information and energy companies and religious activists to determine how to keep the flow of modernization going. Ethnic activists, on the other hand, might find themselves locked into their own positions, devaluing this country’s legal system through their own separate forms of collective identity as they go, among other trends in more recent years.:

    Christian Post: Alex Murashko: Evangelical Leaders Praise Pope Benedict XVI’s Concern for Life, Christian Unity
    Deutsche Welle: Catholic cardinals to select Benedict XVI’s successor by Easter

    Call it divine intervention or simpler cognitive guidance. Pope Benedict XVI is retiring at the end of this month because he believes that he no longer has enough mental energy to carry out my church’s mission, and Dr. Russell Moore of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Reverend Geoff Tuncliffe of the World Evangelical Alliance are praising his unity among diverse Christian factions in proposing “the dignity and liberty of the human person” as an antidote to the nihilism marking Judeo-Christianity’s introduction all those centuries ago. The Pope’s writings gave people at the WEA and the SBTS a glimpse into a mind focused on a view that humans were ready, willing, and able to constantly search for truth, defending it no matter how small or insignificant the people in question seemed to be at first, from “the baby with Down syndrome” to “the child starving in the desert”. Evangelicals and Roman Catholics alike felt their jaws drop as they took in this decision, and now, it’s up to the cardinals to demonstrate their intended course for one of the most hierarchical religious groups in the history of the human race. Do they want to hold the line in Europe, or do they want to bring someone from North America in to decide the ecclesiastical framework recognized by billions? The Holy Spirit could have a calm sense of humor should Africa surface, especially given what’s happening to its main northern country.:

    Reuters: Egypt Islamists say clerics must approve IMF loan
    Gatestone Institute: Khaled Abu Toameh: The Hamas-Egyptian Alliance

    Al-Azhar University’s Senior Scholars Authority is stuck trying to move through the intricacies of Sharia’s totalitarianism, but the International Monetary Fund faces opposition from the Nour Party, which is studying various legal options that would apply. The loan includes provisions on interest, but there are no constitutional specifications for those clerics’ role, making Grand Imam Muhammad Ahmed Al-Tayeb and Muslim Brotherhood Supreme Guide Mohammed Badie’s positions look ever more unenviable. President Muhammad Morsi now wants a quid pro quo from that Palestinian Arab extension of the Muslim Brotherhood, according to various officials opposing it, in the form of protection for the presidential palace in Cairo. Egyptian protesters see Hamas as an outside group unjustifiably intervening in their country, so Morsi and Badie might know a few weaknesses even we don’t recognize yet. Call it a nail-biter for Congress and the Obama administration during this State of the Union.
    Last edited by ccangelopearl1362; 13th February 2013 at 5:55 PM.
    Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miles0624 View Post
    Agree with you on most of the post but this one. The debt really isn't an issue and you can see my post in the other thread for that reasoning.
    I am going to take umbridge with you in this from the other thread, and it is that China owing the U.S. money does not write off the debt issue. The problem with the debt issue is when countries stop buying our debt and the treasury has to start buying its own debt. That is going to destroy our economy no ifs, ands, or buts. And the longer we show we are fiscally irresponsible, the closer we come to that.

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    Well you know the Violence Against Women Act was passed overwhelmingly with the exception of 22 Republicans. Two of them who happened to gave the GOP and Tea Party response to the State of the Union which are Marco Rubio and Rand Paul respectively. Don't the GOP have a women problem already especially from the fallout with Todd "legitimate rape" Akin? If these two think about running for President, then they may have to explain that. Especially Rubio who may need a big bottle water because his reason may be a bit dry.

    Also in other news, former Mass. Republican Senator Scott Brown is hired by Fox News. Considering that Sarah Palin and Dick Morris are no longer working with the organization with how helpful they were in the 2012 election, they did need a more moderate voice for the GOP.

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    Republicans are planning a full scale filibuster of the Hagel nomination. The Democrats do not have the votes they need to stop it.

    Good on them. I know it probably won't stop Hagel from getting in in the long run, but the principle I like. Of course republicans will be turned into the villains here.

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    Republicans are planning a full scale filibuster of the Hagel nomination. The Democrats do not have the votes they need to stop it.

    Good on them. I know it probably won't stop Hagel from getting in in the long run, but the principle I like. Of course republicans will be turned into the villains here.
    Lovely how they try to block on of their own though. And some republicans already said they would not support a filibuster. So we shall see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Lovely how they try to block on of their own though. And some republicans already said they would not support a filibuster. So we shall see.
    One of their own does not mean he is automatically a great choice, that kind of tribal mindset can be VERY dangerous. Also McCain now says he will support a Filibuster which would give many wavering Republicans alot of cover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    I am going to take umbridge with you in this from the other thread, and it is that China owing the U.S. money does not write off the debt issue. The problem with the debt issue is when countries stop buying our debt and the treasury has to start buying its own debt. That is going to destroy our economy no ifs, ands, or buts. And the longer we show we are fiscally irresponsible, the closer we come to that.
    This is true. Howevern my point is that w when you add the money owed to us, it is About wr trillion. Now add in. The contested monies owed, it is about 15 trillion, which means we. Owe about 2 trillion dollars. Now, add the fact 70 percent is held by americans and it is believed 15 percent of thos bonds have been lost.( Most prominent are war bond) from 11w and ww2) we look fine. That is why china can call in the debt if they so will. I highly doubt Americans will all call in the debt of this country at the same time.. Add in the 61 trillion in assests, our current debt ratio is fine. Now, if obama keeps this trillion a year going, we will hit 22 trillion in debt, which them means we owe a definate nin trillion, but possibly 7 trillion ( unless we buy debt as well.). At this point what you said is true.

    Don't get me wrong. The debt is an issue. However, those who think we are in financial trouble this instant are kidding themselves.

    I am on my phone again, so I will clean this up later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miles0624 View Post
    This is true. Howevern my point is that w when you add the money owed to us, it is About wr trillion. Now add in. The contested monies owed, it is about 15 trillion, which means we. Owe about 2 trillion dollars. Now, add the fact 70 percent is held by americans and it is believed 15 percent of thos bonds have been lost.( Most prominent are war bond) from 11w and ww2) we look fine. That is why china can call in the debt if they so will. I highly doubt Americans will all call in the debt of this country at the same time.. Add in the 61 trillion in assests, our current debt ratio is fine. Now, if obama keeps this trillion a year going, we will hit 22 trillion in debt, which them means we owe a definate nin trillion, but possibly 7 trillion ( unless we buy debt as well.). At this point what you said is true.

    Don't get me wrong. The debt is an issue. However, those who think we are in financial trouble this instant are kidding themselves.

    I am on my phone again, so I will clean this up later.
    Okay the problem is, is not just the debt we have, it is the debt that we keep adding to it, things like Social Security and Medicare which are expected to create massive amounts of debt. So while the debt we have AT THIS MOMENT may not be a problem, the interest we are paying on it, the trillion a year we wrack up in spending, and the unfunded liabilities puts on a quick path to financial trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Okay the problem is, is not just the debt we have, it is the debt that we keep adding to it, things like Social Security and Medicare which are expected to create massive amounts of debt. So while the debt we have AT THIS MOMENT may not be a problem, the interest we are paying on it, the trillion a year we wrack up in spending, and the unfunded liabilities puts on a quick path to financial trouble.
    Agreed!

    response to Miles, in response to my comment in the Homosexuality thread:

    I understand what you are saying but like Lutz said, the problem at this moment may not be the amount of the debt itself, but rather the fact that there are no plans to decrease. It is going to keep going up until it becomes a problem. People wouldnt be so up in arms about it if there were even plans just to keep it even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    One of their own does not mean he is automatically a great choice, that kind of tribal mindset can be VERY dangerous. Also McCain now says he will support a Filibuster which would give many wavering Republicans alot of cover.
    I know, I was just trying to get a reaction from him. And yeah I have read that mccain would support a filibuster after I posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJPalmer85 View Post
    Agreed!

    response to Miles, in response to my comment in the Homosexuality thread:

    I understand what you are saying but like Lutz said, the problem at this moment may not be the amount of the debt itself, but rather the fact that there are no plans to decrease. It is going to keep going up until it becomes a problem. People wouldnt be so up in arms about it if there were even plans just to keep it even.

    I get equality and I am all for it, but it wont me **** if we have nothing...

    B
    Yup, and like I said I agree with that. I was just talking about the debt currently. It is a wonder people would elect obama with all this knowledge. But yeah, I was addressing about the current debt. Future debt you are correct. However, according to Asia's top financial advisor, It will take ten years still adding 1.4 trillion for China to officially be a threat to the United States. If you have NPR, you can hear him talking about it now.

    Edit: Just saw your question Big. The only thing currently stopping them is that it would also hurt their countries. When we can't borrow money from them, then we can't but their goods, we can't but their debt (we buy it at a much lower level than they buy our, but it still holds we are buying theirs) and would cause us to go bankrupt. What they are trying to do is wait us out until they have enough where bankruptcy won't matter. As you know, even after bankruptcy we will still owe them the money unless they forgive our debt. However, at the current level, we would also force them into bankruptcy, which is why they are actually forced to keep buying our debt. (Also why he is saying ten years for China.)
    Last edited by miles0624; 14th February 2013 at 10:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miles0624 View Post
    Edit: Just saw your question Big. The only thing currently stopping them is that it would also hurt their countries. When we can't borrow money from them, then we can't but their goods, we can't but their debt (we buy it at a much lower level than they buy our, but it still holds we are buying theirs) and would cause us to go bankrupt. What they are trying to do is wait us out until they have enough where bankruptcy won't matter. As you know, even after bankruptcy we will still owe them the money unless they forgive our debt. However, at the current level, we would also force them into bankruptcy, which is why they are actually forced to keep buying our debt. (Also why he is saying ten years for China.)
    The problem is that China isn't just the only major buyer, and for each country and person there is going to be a tipping point where buying our debt with the risk of default is more of a risk than the economic benefits. Especially if the belief is America is unwilling to deal with it's spending problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Especially Rubio who may need a big bottle water because his reason may be a bit dry.
    Is this really what you think passes for political discussion? Are you even thinking about what you post? Dude, it's water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The problem is that China isn't just the only major buyer, and for each country and person there is going to be a tipping point where buying our debt with the risk of default is more of a risk than the economic benefits. Especially if the belief is America is unwilling to deal with it's spending problem.
    This is true. There are only two countries that could have a possible benefit within a five year period. These are brasil and japan. Yet, they are even witheld. Brasil because of the olympics (which is why it is good they got it instead of us). Japan could would have the most benefit out of all other countries. Having the cheapest most full efficent cars would lead americans flocking back like in the 70s. They could buy our materials at a cheaper rate, etc. Howeve, they are our third strongest allies. While it is possible that they could turn, it is highly unlikely.

    My point is that we have time. We do need to fight obama for the spending cuts, but our party has one more chance to change public opinion( aganist socialist media) and get some people in there. I have been speaking with my congresswomen (marsha blackburn) and she is pushing hard for some meaningful cuts and bills. Right now, we need more people siding with our side. Once we get that and enough senate seats in 2014 or 16. We can actually get back on the debt. As we stand now, we won't be able to do anything and obama can just continously make things worse. That is why I am saying, the debt isn't as important as some other issues we need to face.

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