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Thread: American Politics: THANKS OBAMA

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    It's times like this that I wish we could just fire every politician and start over.
    These are basically my thoughts. The way I see it, we have 535 idiots on Capitol Hill and one in the White House
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    It's been a long time since I've been here, and wow has this place degraded.

    Obama is fine, the sequester is going to aid us. Stop whining about taxes. We need increases in taxes.

    Actually, if Obama just did most of what FDR did, we'd be fine. Or fund WW3 with North Korea, as they've threatened another nuke...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelers_Fan View Post
    It's been a long time since I've been here, and wow has this place degraded.

    Obama is fine, the sequester is going to aid us. Stop whining about taxes. We need increases in taxes.

    Actually, if Obama just did most of what FDR did, we'd be fine. Or fund WW3 with North Korea, as they've threatened another nuke...
    So how high should we raise taxes? 50%? 60%?

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    Honestly, most Americans don't understand taxes. They do need to be higher, across the board.

    It's like you can have a laissez-fair government, where we will have to sort out this mess ourselves with no government help; or we can have a hands on government with taxes and abundant jobs for those that are unemployed. We can't mix the two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    That is not really answering my question, it is another red harring to try and divert attention from the failure in logic of your post. Want to try again?
    Then ask me the question again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelers_Fan View Post
    Honestly, most Americans don't understand taxes. They do need to be higher, across the board.

    It's like you can have a laissez-fair government, where we will have to sort out this mess ourselves with no government help; or we can have a hands on government with taxes and abundant jobs for those that are unemployed. We can't mix the two.
    Your problem is the belief that the Government can create a greater amount of jobs with tax money, than the private industry could with that money, as we saw with the Stimulus, giving the Government a massive amount of money to spend causes them to focus on what is best for their district, and not the nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul
    Then ask me the question again.
    If the Republicans were wanting these to pass to engage in a war of rhetoric, why did they try so hard to divert or stop them? And the Democrats largely did nothing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    It's times like this that I wish we could just fire every politician and start over.
    This.

    The real problem is people want to privatize their profits and socialize their losses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Your problem is the belief that the Government can create a greater amount of jobs with tax money, than the private industry could with that money, as we saw with the Stimulus, giving the Government a massive amount of money to spend causes them to focus on what is best for their district, and not the nation.
    So having a belief in the principles that our country was founded on is a problem? That's what's wrong with America, the general public can't believe in anything.

    If we can't create jobs with tax money, explain to me why we have the Hoover Dam and our highway system. Those were government funded projects, made with tax money to stimulate the income of the unemployed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelers_Fan View Post
    So having a belief in the principles that our country was founded on is a problem? That's what's wrong with America, the general public can't believe in anything.
    Our country was also founded on the principles that if you work hard, the Government will leave you alone. Hell the idea of massive Government intervention wasn't even thought of until the 1920s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelers_Fan View Post
    If we can't create jobs with tax money, explain to me why we have the Hoover Dam and our highway system. Those were government funded projects, made with tax money to stimulate the income of the unemployed.
    You do realize neither of those projects would be feasible in today's environment right? Lets go past that the EPA would never allow it to happen because of the water problems it would create. The fact is that back in the day regulations were much more laxed, as such they were able to work long hours in 120 degree heat, and work at a very frantic pace to get it done. That could never happen today, if you want to look at what something even close to a Hoover Dam like project would look like in today's regulatory environment and excess. Go look at "The Big Dig"

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    While neither of them would be feasible, there are like projects that need to be done. Oklahoma has some of the worst highways in the country, and some of the worst roads in general. If we could get a union together for unemployed people to fix the roads from the city level up to the national level that would stimulate a lot more than one would think. Use a bit of logic and think of things that the government can aid us in. There is an elastic clause for a reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelers_Fan View Post
    While neither of them would be feasible, there are like projects that need to be done. Oklahoma has some of the worst highways in the country, and some of the worst roads in general. If we could get a union together for unemployed people to fix the roads from the city level up to the national level that would stimulate a lot more than one would think. Use a bit of logic and think of things that the government can aid us in. There is an elastic clause for a reason.
    Yeah it would stimulate Mexican unemployment, because unless a sizable amount of people want to get out in the heat and work low wages all night long, then the only people employed will be the illegals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Hell the idea of massive Government intervention wasn't even thought of until the 1920s.
    Big government was a new idea in the twenties? Tell that to Alexander Hamilton, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln, William Jennings Bryan, or Theodore Roosevelt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    Big government was a new idea in the twenties? Tell that to Alexander Hamilton, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln, William Jennings Bryan, or Theodore Roosevelt.
    Big Government =/= Massive Government Intervention in the workplace

    It wasn't until the early 1900s that we had the break up of the massive monopolies, workers rights, etc etc.

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    For a few moments in the past several days, I started wondering whether other political junkies had simply decided to just hunker down and follow the lead of certain ruling figures worldwide who’re attempting to stand back, clear everything they can, and determine just who should be left holding the bag as World Web War One erupts. Already, prospects for China may be looking quite dire, in more ways than just our deficits.:

    BusinessWeek: Bruce Einhorn: The Fall of China’s Solar Power King
    United States Department of the Treasury: Securities (c): Annual Cross-Border Portfolio Holdings

    Leave it to the Chinese Communists to make President Barack Obama look like a cheapskate when it comes to solar energy projects, even if that might not be saying too much. Shi Zhengrong, who founded Suntech, widely renowned for its solar panels, was stripped of his chairmanship of said company and replaced with Susan Wang ahead of a potential bond default, and he’s claiming that stakeholders are wondering why he’s no longer present during board meetings. Other solar panel providers saw their projects sit still because the demand for them wasn’t present worldwide. As it happens, Suntech disclosed a possible fraud case involving a $722 million guarantee extension back in 2010, and analysts are as uncertain about its fate as the fate of state-owned lenders inside China. The retreat by Chinese money was enough to give Japan a brief edge as a foreign holder of American debt this past June, but that might not be saying much there, either.:

    • Cayman Islands: $1.031 trillion in total securities; $516.4 billion in equities
    • China: $1.59224 trillion in total securities; $220.9 billion in equities
    • France: $225.06 billion in total securities; $119.86 billion in equities
    • Japan: $1.83518 trillion in total securities; $313.6 billion in equities
    • South Korea: $147.99 billion in total securities; $24.46 billion in equities
    • Norway: $212.9 billion in total securities; $124.3 billion in equities
    • Singapore: $241.1 billion in total securities; $105.83 billion in equities
    • Great Britain: $1.0076 trillion in total securities; $494.8 billion in equities

    Perhaps at this point, the segments of the voting public that favored maintaining entitlements at any cost must have concluded that damaging the discourse was their only choice left as the information, energy, and cuteness revolutions accelerate beyond their perceived control, so the segments in question might as well scramble for whatever remains there still are before the system itself implodes. National, let alone international, defense won’t even be a question for them since to them, it’s utterly worthless. Other countries across East Asia could already be pushing forward with their own plans, preferably with a common defense of freedom there.:

    Voice of America: Matthew Hillburn: China’s ‘Hollywood’ Stokes Anti-Japanese Sentiment
    Eurasia Review: Rajaratnam School of International Studies: Julius Trajano: Japan-Philippine Relations: New Dynamics in Strategic Partnership

    Hengdian Studios, a private company likened to Hollywood in sheer media impact, was responsible for cranking out at least 40 anti-Japanese movies and television programs last year, and the Chinese Communists have been all too happy to encourage the sentiment. I might’ve thought that Unit 61398 would’ve directed more of its operations against Japan, but I guess it had different purposes in mind. If incoming President Xi Jinping and his clique of People’s Liberation Army commanders have been carving out their own business empires to expand in support of these activities, then perhaps they’ll be willing to paint Japan as the hub for several new conspiracies aimed at disemboweling the Middle Kingdom. For his part, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is more content with expanding southwestward, and current Philippine President Benigno Aquino III – whom my relatives have supported – has some security initiatives that would be most welcome for us, if unwelcome for the factions inside the Chinese Communist Party. The first country did quite a good job of turning the second into a prison camp during the 1940s, which could say quite a bit about the Chinese’s strategic threat level. The Philippines has 10 brand-new patrol boats on donation from Japan, and they’re expanding cooperation about anti-piracy operations and fishing networks in the South China Sea. Between that area and the dispute over the Senkakus, we should have an emerging framework through which to counter China’s expansionism. Japan is responsible for $1.5 billion in total foreign investment in the Philippines, including development assistance for various infrastructure projects. Hopefully, at least a few Internet expansion and enforcement projects are also in the works, especially given what just unfolded southwest of Mindanao over the past few weeks.:

    Philippine Star: Sulu sultan spokesman: Sabah clashes trigger ‘Kiram Spring’
    GMA Network News: Kimberly Tan: Malaysian media sees possible link between Sabah standoff, elections

    If Jamalul Kiram III and those operatives were trying to make a statement of dissatisfaction with the development of Mindanao, then choosing the 27th anniversary of a revolution that ended with Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos’ evacuation from Manila via a squadron of United States Air Force helicopters and the 50th anniversary of a declaration that formulated Malaysia as it currently is did the trick. This flare-up began at a place known as Lahad Datu, when about 200 warriors working for the man, who cited a claim to the throne of a now-defunct entity with its own territory and governing system, so to speak, launched a speedboat incursion into Sabah and landed near the aforementioned town, about a couple of weeks before that revolutionary anniversary. As the rest of you might expect, Philippine and Malaysian officials scrambled to figure out what was going on, and it got my attention during February’s last days. It escalated to an even bigger extent than, say, Mohammed, er, Muhammad Bouazizi’s self-immolation when Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak called military units into the area to confront these rebels, calling themselves the Royal Army of Sulu… only to find themselves engaged in a skirmish or two with the group leading into this past weekend. In response, Agbimuddin Kiram, Jamalul’s brother, requested reinforcements from Mindanao by Sunday, leading to a breach against the Malaysians’ military cordon and an ambush against a convoy. If this wasn’t enough, both countries have elections in a matter of months, so opposition figures from as many sides as we can imagine have jumped on this, particularly in Malaysia. The New Straits Times worries that somebody opposing Razak could have goaded the Kirams into cutting off whatever energy reserves exist in Sabah by making a grab for them, and Aquino has accusations of cluelessness or malice against him, as well. If I were Moro Islamic Liberation Front chairman Murad Ibrahim, I would’ve had my agents uncover (hint, hint) some scandal in which the Kirams were immersed and threatened to expose it unless they attacked Lahad Datu, encouraged my followers to cause as much bloodshed and damage as they could throughout Mindanao – citing both China’s cyberwarfare worldwide and the American Empire’s mobilization throughout Southeast Asia – and suggested a name change for good measure. I wouldn’t want to be in either outgoing Organization for Islamic Cooperation Secretary-General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu or incoming Secretary-General Iyad Madani’s shoes as these fighters maneuver into guerrilla warfare, and the Moro National Liberation Front, from which Sharia terror against the Philippines these past few decades originated, will have even more blood on its hands for the sake of authenticity and purification. The effects on the surrounding land and wealth could be just as dire, even without any projects that these Muslims can access.:

    International Islamic News Agency: New Dubai firm to manage Islamic endowments
    Cornucopia Institute: John Vidal: India’s Rice Revolution

    United Arab Emirates Prime Minister Muhammad bin Rashid Al-Maktoum hasn’t lacked for monetary mystery, and his main city now has a project for endowments in which Muslim businesspersons can set aside their wealth in submission to Allah. The Investment Corporation of Dubai is the entity in charge of arranging this, and it already has $2.7 million of capital to get going. One can guess how Sharia-compliant these businesspersons will want their investments to be, but they might be having progressively less luck on the other side of the Arabian Sea. A village known as Darveshpura recently saw extraordinary growth in rice and potatoes, to the tune of 22.4 metric tons, beyond the usual count of six or even ten, as well as measurements from major European and United States seed or genetically-modified food companies. When the scientists converged on the village, the tests they conducted found high concentrations of silicon in the soil and growth through root intensification. Whereas rice farmers typically plant three or four rice seedlings at a time in “waterlogged fields”, the farmers in Darveshpura piled half their usual count, transplanted the young plants into fields in a grid, kept the soil drier, and weeded around them to allow air flow to their roots more directly. Increased yields in wheat, sugarcane, tomatoes, potatoes, and other crops have resulted, which could give Pepe Fanjul and those other growers in Florida a critical source of notes if they’re inclined to test their own crops with this technique, presumably with an emphasis on excellent crop management. India, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, and Indonesia are encouraging research into root intensification, and even as I type this, farmers across northeastern India eagerly anticipate results from the next rice crop. The rest of us might not need to guess how quickly the Nippon Foundation and the Asian Development Bank will jump at any opportunities they see to support this across my birth country – or how vehemently certain entities that have lost faith in modernization and freedom will jump at any opportunities to attack and criticize it. Different leaders in and across South Asia could accelerate these developments.:

    Times of India: Narendra Modi’s supporters rally to offer him US platform
    Los Angeles Times: Amid Pakistan sectarian violence, Sunnis saved Shiites

    These protests throughout South Asia could amaze any observers, and this is with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Pranab Mukherjee running things out of Raisina Hill. The Bharatiya Janata Party wants a long-range address for an official named Narendra Modi, who was supposed to attend a forum at the University of Pennsylvania until various activists demanded his withdrawal for… nullifying Muslim traditions in his region. Benjamin Franklin set up the University of Pennsylvania, but apparently, those activists concluded that the freedom to speak and converse about various hard decisions in Gujarat was too much entirely. Modi has been mentioned as a possible successor to Singh, so the fortunes there may be self-evident. American Enterprise Institute expert Sadanand Dhume decided to cancel his own appearance to protest this cancellation, and other Hindu-Americans are wondering about implications for future discussions at the university. Pakistan’s religious and ethnic groups might have already run out of time to integrate themselves with their next-door neighbor, so Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Lashkar-e-Taiba’s bloodlust will have no limits or boundaries. As it happens, this same bloodlust has seeped into Pakistani society, as reflected in at least three attacks against Shiite convoys in the northern part of the country. In the last of these attacks, 40 men ambushed the caravan at a sharp mountain bend and ordered passengers believed to be Shiite to line up on one side and passengers believed to be Sunni to line up on the other. 19 was the final body count there, 17 Shiites and 2 Sunnis in all, no doubt with their own life stories, dreams, and hobbies. This might erupt further westward soon enough, so that both could overlap in the future.:

    Christian Science Monitor: Kenichi Serino: #RainbowNation: The rise of South Africa’s ‘black Twitter’
    Hill Global Affairs: Julian Pecquet: Lawmaker unveils US economic engagement plan with Africa to counter China

    Fancy that. As 2011 came to a close, Twitter users in South Africa erupted over accusations that Cape Town was a “racist” city. Media outlets, they believed, represented a vision of their country that didn’t necessarily include their perspectives, so they want to add their own views about daily culture. Justin Bieber makes appearances next to Syria, presumably including Alawite leader Bashar Al-Assad, and as more South Africans generate enough wealth to access the rest of the planet, they will need as many connections as they can muster to pull their country closer to these global trends. I’m certain that Delaware Senator Chris Coons will be eager to compile any recommendations that he can to build on the United States’ outreach to the continent. Africa had several economies growing quite rapidly over the past year, including markets in Nigeria, Angola, and Mozambique, and the United States Agency for International Development has offices in Dakar, Accra, and Nairobi, contrasting with China’s infrastructure investments. An update for the African Growth and Opportunity Act should help us diversify our investment trends, depending on progress in improving governance and making projects in these countries more transparent and accountable, hopefully including enhanced Internet capabilities, as in the Philippines, amounting to $53.8 billion in African exports by 2011 and 100,000 jobs inside America itself. Interestingly, we’re exploring for geothermal energy in the East African Rift Valley in tandem with energy companies headquartered in the countries there, and reserves of coal and natural gas have been popping up. The State, Treasury, Commerce, and Agriculture Departments and the Small Business Administration could coordinate with the Africa and Cyber Commands and Twitter to bring new entrepreneurs aboard, and America’s allies would also be able to mobilize in this wealth generation. The Bush Center and Bronies for Good could have additional audiences receptive to a global culture of friendship, and some other countries could need it even more soon enough.:

    Fox News Channel: Chavez Remembered at State Funeral As Successor Causes Controversy
    International Business Times: What Will It Take to Restore Venezuela’s Once-Mighty Oil and Gas Business?

    “Yesterday, the devil came here,” to the United Nations General Assembly of 2006, pronounced now-late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. “Right here, and it smells of sulfur still today.”. As Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad now stands at his anti-American comrade’s funeral – alongside New York Representative Greg Meeks – we are now eyeing Venezuela’s oil reserves and Vice-President Nicolas Maduro. There’s no media access for this event, and constitutional provisions there require an election no later than April 5, with likely participation from Miranda Governor Henrique Capriles, the candidate most likely to seriously challenge the current regime. The United Socialist Party of Venezuela overran the country’s main oil company, Petroleum of Venezuela, and launched multiple housing projects and subsidies, leaving its oil reserves fairly dry. The presence of any rivalries within the USPV will be likely to last for at least a year, so I’m far less than optimistic about any prospects for getting rid of Chavez’s vindictiveness, as are the energy companies in question, evidently. The reactions among supporters inside the United States might prove more interesting to behold, to say the least, between all of these emerging alignments, and I might have several ideas about who should get the credit.
    Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    If the Republicans were wanting these to pass to engage in a war of rhetoric, why did they try so hard to divert or stop them? And the Democrats largely did nothing?
    Then that would be incompetence on GOP's part in terms of keeping the Tea Party Republicans in line. Democrats would help the Republicans but, the whole rhetoric especially from a certain ex-congressman who called 50 House Democrats communists... that may not be worth it. I mean, isn't compromise a dirty word according to John Boehner?

    Also, you know that 50 percent of Republicans according to the recent poll agrees with Obama to raise the minimum wage to $9?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2758307.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Then that would be incompetence on GOP's part in terms of keeping the Tea Party Republicans in line.
    Umm what? Do you have proof the Tea Party Republicans did not want the cuts diverted or stopped?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Democrats would help the Republicans but, the whole rhetoric especially from a certain ex-congressman who called 50 House Democrats communists... that may not be worth it. I mean, isn't compromise a dirty word according to John Boehner?
    So... the Democrats would help, but their feelings got hurt from a ex-congressman. Is that REALLY how you want to portray Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Also, you know that 50 percent of Republicans according to the recent poll agrees with Obama to raise the minimum wage to $9?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2758307.html
    Yes, the minimum wage stupidity is the populist rhetoric that people gobble up, until you realize it hurts the people it is supposed to help.

    "Another reason a higher minimum wage doesn’t reduce poverty rates is that a hike in hourly pay doesn’t necessarily translate to an annual income bump. If employers faced with suddenly higher labor costs reduce hours or employment, take-home pay will decline. Economists writing in the Journal of Human Resources in 2005 found that to be the case, with the “losers” from a higher minimum wage—who moved closer to the poverty line after the policy was passed—outnumbering the winners."

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...328738108.html

    " A higher minimum wage will likely reduce employment among the very low-wage, low-skilled workers that minimum wage proponents are trying to help. A large body of research illustrates the disemployment effects of minimum wage.

    Moreover, even if many workers affected by a higher minimum wage would see increased wages and suffer neither reductions in employment nor hours, minimum wages may do little or nothing to help poor and low-income families. Minimum wage laws mandate high wages for low-wage workers, rather than higher earnings for low-income families. But low-wage work and low family income are quite distinct, because many minimum wage workers are in higher-income families, and many poor families have no workers.

    Mandating higher wages for low-wage workers in high-income families, such as teenagers from well off families working a summer job, does nothing to help poor and low-income families. Indeed, if the job losses from a higher minimum wage are borne by minimum wage workers in poor, low-income families, minimum wages can have unintended harmful distributional effects — possibly increasing the number of poor or low-income families. Reflecting these issues, research fails to establish that higher minimum wages help poor or low-income families."

    http://www.showmeinstitute.org/publi...imum-wage.html

    But then again Obama was never really good with understanding the economy, or... well math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Yes, the minimum wage stupidity is the populist rhetoric that people gobble up, until you realize it hurts the people it is supposed to help.

    "Another reason a higher minimum wage doesn’t reduce poverty rates is that a hike in hourly pay doesn’t necessarily translate to an annual income bump. If employers faced with suddenly higher labor costs reduce hours or employment, take-home pay will decline. Economists writing in the Journal of Human Resources in 2005 found that to be the case, with the “losers” from a higher minimum wage—who moved closer to the poverty line after the policy was passed—outnumbering the winners."

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...328738108.html

    " A higher minimum wage will likely reduce employment among the very low-wage, low-skilled workers that minimum wage proponents are trying to help. A large body of research illustrates the disemployment effects of minimum wage.

    Moreover, even if many workers affected by a higher minimum wage would see increased wages and suffer neither reductions in employment nor hours, minimum wages may do little or nothing to help poor and low-income families. Minimum wage laws mandate high wages for low-wage workers, rather than higher earnings for low-income families. But low-wage work and low family income are quite distinct, because many minimum wage workers are in higher-income families, and many poor families have no workers.

    Mandating higher wages for low-wage workers in high-income families, such as teenagers from well off families working a summer job, does nothing to help poor and low-income families. Indeed, if the job losses from a higher minimum wage are borne by minimum wage workers in poor, low-income families, minimum wages can have unintended harmful distributional effects — possibly increasing the number of poor or low-income families. Reflecting these issues, research fails to establish that higher minimum wages help poor or low-income families."

    http://www.showmeinstitute.org/publi...imum-wage.html

    But then again Obama was never really good with understanding the economy, or... well math.
    And now for reality: Raising the minimum wage had been shown to boast the economy and there is no reason to whatsoever to believe that it would cost jobs.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_872617.html

    "When you get an increase in the minimum wage, you're getting a wage increase to the people that are low-wage families who depend on these earnings to make ends meet," said Shierholz. "They have no choice but to spend that money in their local economy. That's the stimulus you get."

    But then again conservatives were never really good with understanding the economy, or... well reality.
    Last edited by YourFavoriteUser; 8th March 2013 at 10:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    And now for reality: Raising the minimum wage had been shown to boast the economy and there is no reason to whatsoever to believe that it would cost jobs.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_872617.html

    "When you get an increase in the minimum wage, you're getting a wage increase to the people that are low-wage families who depend on these earnings to make ends meet," said Shierholz. "They have no choice but to spend that money in their local economy. That's the stimulus you get."

    But then again conservativeswere never really good with understanding the economy, or... well reality.
    Well lets look at this, because the 2005 study does prove you wrong. By increasing the minimum wage, there has to be offsets, usually the price of goods in stores like Wal Mart and the rest to recoup their costs. This means that people will have to spend more to buy the same thing. It also reduces the amount of jobs and hours out there, as we have seen with Obamacare, you raise the cost of something, insurance being an example with Obamacare, employers cut hours and cut employees. That means fewer jobs, that means those lower class families that depend on jobs are even worse off.

    But don't just take my word for it, Christina Romer, who chaired Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers from 2009 to 2010 says pretty much the same thing:

    “robust competition is a powerful force helping to ensure that workers are paid” decent wages. A wage hike “may not be particularly well-targeted as an anti-poverty proposal” and could “harm the very people whom a minimum wage is supposed to help.” Noting that raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour would result in only about $20 billion in extra consumer spending — a pittance in a $15 trillion economy — she observed that “most economists prefer other ways to help low-income families,” and that “a job may ultimately be the most valuable thing for a family struggling to escape poverty.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...sion-john-fund

    How about University of California, Irvine economist David Neumark who has xamined more than 100 major academic studies on the minimum wage?

    "About 85 percent of the studies "find a negative employment effect on low-skilled workers." A 1976 American Economic Association survey found that 90 percent of its members agreed that increasing the minimum wage raises unemployment among young and unskilled workers. A 1990 survey found that 80 percent of economists agreed with the statement that increases in the minimum wage cause unemployment among the youth and low-skilled. If you're looking for a consensus in most fields of study, examine the introductory and intermediate college textbooks in the field. Economics textbooks that mention the minimum wage say that it increases unemployment for the least skilled worker."

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/walter-...#ixzz2Mz8ezFZa

    Now, who doesn't understand the economy and reality?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Well lets look at this, because the 2005 study does prove you wrong. By increasing the minimum wage, there has to be offsets, usually the price of goods in stores like Wal Mart and the rest to recoup their costs. This means that people will have to spend more to buy the same thing. It also reduces the amount of jobs and hours out there, as we have seen with Obamacare, you raise the cost of something, insurance being an example with Obamacare, employers cut hours and cut employees. That means fewer jobs, that means those lower class families that depend on jobs are even worse off.

    But don't just take my word for it, Christina Romer, who chaired Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers from 2009 to 2010 says pretty much the same thing:

    “robust competition is a powerful force helping to ensure that workers are paid” decent wages. A wage hike “may not be particularly well-targeted as an anti-poverty proposal” and could “harm the very people whom a minimum wage is supposed to help.” Noting that raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour would result in only about $20 billion in extra consumer spending — a pittance in a $15 trillion economy — she observed that “most economists prefer other ways to help low-income families,” and that “a job may ultimately be the most valuable thing for a family struggling to escape poverty.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...sion-john-fund

    How about University of California, Irvine economist David Neumark who has xamined more than 100 major academic studies on the minimum wage?

    "About 85 percent of the studies "find a negative employment effect on low-skilled workers." A 1976 American Economic Association survey found that 90 percent of its members agreed that increasing the minimum wage raises unemployment among young and unskilled workers. A 1990 survey found that 80 percent of economists agreed with the statement that increases in the minimum wage cause unemployment among the youth and low-skilled. If you're looking for a consensus in most fields of study, examine the introductory and intermediate college textbooks in the field. Economics textbooks that mention the minimum wage say that it increases unemployment for the least skilled worker."

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/walter-...#ixzz2Mz8ezFZa

    Now, who doesn't understand the economy and reality?
    You do realize that the corporate profits are a record high? If anything, it should be raised to $10 to keep up with the cost of living. But then again, Republicans are for income inequality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    You do realize that the corporate profits are a record high? If anything, it should be raised to $10 to keep up with the cost of living. But then again, Republicans are for income inequality.
    Corporate profits mean nothing to me, nor should they mean anything in this discussion, these jobs are designed for high school students not families, the market place has designated what it will pay for these jobs. If they do not like the pay they can look elsewhere. By the way I like how you completely ignored the fact that by raising the pay, it will produce less jobs, does that not matter?
    Last edited by BigLutz; 9th March 2013 at 10:53 PM.

  21. #421
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    Oh my gosh. This thread is getting to me. These posts. Since when do you get accurate information from the Huffington Post? And why should we raise minimum wage. If you have minimum skills or abilities, then why should we pay you more than the minimum?


    I'm not on much anymore...

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    i work an entry-level retail job and earn $22 an hour on a regular day

    ~australia~

    i don't know all that much about economics in the US though so i will steer clear of this discussion otherwise
    life is
    a game

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    Quote Originally Posted by moot View Post
    i work an entry-level retail job and earn $22 an hour on a regular day

    ~australia~

    i don't know all that much about economics in the US though so i will steer clear of this discussion otherwise
    Well see that is how much the marketplace pays for that job, I would assume that there are jobs in Australia that pay less than $22 a hour on a regular day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Well see that is how much the marketplace pays for that job, I would assume that there are jobs in Australia that pay less than $22 a hour on a regular day?
    i think minimum wage is somewhere around $16/h but i'm not 100% sure
    life is
    a game

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    Quote Originally Posted by moot View Post
    i think minimum wage is somewhere around $16/h but i'm not 100% sure
    Huffington Post puts it around $9.54 a hour for Australia

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2686049.html

    So not much difference than the U.S.

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