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Thread: American Politics: THANKS OBAMA

  1. #2526
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    Oh Nukada? Here's some of the despicable things that members of your beloved party has done during the shutdown they created:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...tml?ref=topbar

  2. #2527
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    Veterans are unhappy with how the Tea Party Republicans Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin hijacked the peaceful protest for political gain.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/milli...olitical-gain/

    Speaking of which... There was Larry Klayman telling Obama to "Put the Quran Down", saying African-American cops blocking the W.H. look like "something out of Kenya, and wait... was that a Confederate Flag in the protest?

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/milli...he-quran-down/

  3. #2528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nukada View Post
    Why don't you just start telling the truth. Every conservative you demonize is someone you actually think has a chance.
    Maedar posted Santorum's approval ratings and showed why he doesn't think Santorum can win. What evidence do you have that Santorum has a chance?
    If he was really that low on the list of possible future presidents, you wouldn't care at all.
    I love how whenever liberals criticize a Republican conservatives claim we're afraid of them
    Likewise, that's why you are so afraid of the 'Tea Party'.
    Same reason any patriotic American would fear Joseph McCarthy
    You keep claiming that its on the fringe of the Republicans, and that it would be better for the party if they just went away.
    Senate races in Nevada, Delaware, Missouri, and Indiana indicate that the GOP would benefit if the tea party went away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nukada View Post
    Need I remind you that he took second place in the Republican Primaries for 2012,
    Winning 21% of the vote isn't that impressive
    and that nearly every citizen of this nation who voted for Romney would have instead voted for Rick?
    I really doubt that. So, are you implying that you support consensual sex between a 12 year old and a 35 year old? I wouldn't believe that for an instant.
    Young children can't give consent
    And is it so hard to understand that I want to serve my creator by following His commands, and that I would prefer a world where everyone else does so as well?
    Is it hard to believe that I would prefer a world that people wouldn't use their religion to tell me what to do
    I am sick and tired of government subsidies to almost every business in existence.
    Agreed
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  4. #2529

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    Look, I can't quote the JSTOR article for you guys because you don't have access, but in the 1995 government shutdown there was an argument over medicaid. Again, republicans held out on approving the budget due to disagreements with a plan, and several of these republicans were rookie statesmen. What ended up happening, politically, was that the government shutdown strengthened Clinton's re-election attempts. The division between the parties changed public opinion and took it away from the president. The republicans were mostly blamed for the shutdown, and lost in the upcoming presidential election. Here, we have a very similar situation. The public opinion is that republicans caused the shutdown (and in my opinion this is a rightful stance), meaning they will take the blame. Even if some of the blame falls to Obama (the second highest source of blame for the shutdown), however, he is not up for re-election, and the blame falling on one man is very different from the blame falling on the entire party. If 2014 were a presidential election year, the democrats would therefore win, likely by a good margin, if the '95 shutdown teaches us anything. However, this has occurred relatively early in the term, so the republicans have time on their side. However, as it stands right now, no republicans--including Santorum-- have slim-to-no chances of winning. The smart decision for any potential republican candidate for the 2016 presidency is to lay low, so his or her name does not get muddied by this mess we are in now.
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  5. #2530
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    By the way, I would like to add something.

    The gerrymandering might keep a few states red, yes, but it will NOT help the Tea Party members in the House keep their jobs. Tea Party members in red states aren't worried about losing the general elections to Democrats, but they might never even get that far. There's a very good chance that this time around, they'll be kicked out, and more competent Republicans (who would have voted for that clean bill resolution in a second) will be nominated.

    Want a lengthy explanation of why the Republican Party is now less popular than dog droppings? Here:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...chine-20131009

    And is it so hard to understand that I want to serve my creator by following His commands, and that I would prefer a world where everyone else does so as well?
    Incidentally, Nukada, when had He actually told you anything?

    His "commands" that you are following, are, as I often point out, something written by not him, but by another worshipper like you more than three-thousand years ago. You're basing His commands on your interpretation of them by someone with the same ideas.

    Only problem is, back then, such people actually had authority. The Greeks executed Socrates because he had controversial ideas that he was teaching kids.

    These days, people in this country can't do that. Tough luck.
    Last edited by Maedar; 16th October 2013 at 12:59 AM.

  6. #2531
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    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...tive-Americans

    I thought this was interesting.

    According to Cornell political scientist Peter Enns, conservatives are beginning to break through across the country. Based on “measures of policy mood for eac state from the 1950s to 2010,” Enns and his colleague Julianna Koch found that there has been a conservative opinion shift in every single state across the country. Most of the increases were “statistically significant”; the same held true for regions.

    Between 1964 and 2010, America shifted heavily when asked whether every person should be provided a job by the government, or whether government should allow everyone to get ahead individually. Asked whether Washington was becoming too powerful, the country has again shifted dramatically.

    Those statistics do not hold true on same-sex marriage, and there is no question that policy liberalism grew during the 1980s, but then reversed itself. The bad news: the public moves in the opposite direction of policy – so should Republicans win, public opinion is likely to swing to the left. Nonetheless, the study suggests that America has moved steadily to the right since the full-fledged embrace of the welfare state.
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  7. #2532
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    So, this Peter Enns guy did a study that showed the conservatives in this country has increased in the last half-century?

    Very interesting. I wonder how much they paid him to do a study to find out something that is the political pundit's equivalent of finding out that water is wet.

    In other words, LDS, he published this article to make people THINK it's a big deal and that the Republicans are more popular than we believe. That's BS. There's no a single thing in that link that we didn't know already.

    Oh, and as for his comment on what will happen "if the Republicans win"? Perhaps... But they aren't going to.
    Last edited by Maedar; 16th October 2013 at 2:12 AM.

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    Intriguing question:
    The Supreme Court ruled that the ACA includes a tax.
    But, all bills that raise revenue must start in the House of Representatives. The ACA was originally proposed in the Senate. Doesn't that mean something's wrong here?
    Furthermore, thus far the Supreme Court has only decided on the topic of one provision of the ACA, while many others are in the judicial review process as we type.

    Anyways, the republicans keep doing nothing but compromise since the original proposal.
    First, they tried complete defund of the ACA, which the Senate refused.

    Second, they proposed that everything be funded, but Obamacare is delayed for a year, to extend the 1-year exemption the President gave to businesses to everyone. Reid wouldnt' touch it.

    Third, they voted to fund the government, but ensure that Obamacare is fully implemented, no waivers to businesses, congresspersons, or any staff. AND if businesses get a one year exemption, then so does everyone else.
    Still the democrats sit there stubborn as mules. Why are they so unreasonable?

    Also, apparently you love government shutdowns on your terms: http://nationalreview.com/article/36...-andrew-stiles
    Last edited by Nukada; 16th October 2013 at 6:07 AM.
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  9. #2534
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    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...lth-insurance/

    That's amusing!

    A daily Kos blogger upset by his rate hike under Obamacare.

    And the poor Unions want out of it too!

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/...inglepage=true
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  10. #2535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nukada View Post
    Intriguing question:
    The Supreme Court ruled that the ACA includes a tax.
    But, all bills that raise revenue must start in the House of Representatives. The ACA was originally proposed in the Senate. Doesn't that mean something's wrong here?
    In real life, the ACA was first introduced by the House by Charles Rangell

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3590:
    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...lth-insurance/

    That's amusing!

    A daily Kos blogger upset by his rate hike under Obamacare.
    Most liberals can't stand Obamacare
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  11. #2536
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    See, that's the thing, Wiz. In reality, the Republicans as a whole have no problem at all with universal health care.

    They just loathe the fact that the man they despise for having the nerve to run for President while black (his only true "crime", and the true reason the Tea Party was founded) will claim this as his crowning achievement. In their eyes, if anyone was going to pass such a landmark bill, only a white Republican had the right to.

    And that has got them in trouble. They forgot how a democracy works, and deliberately tried to defy the decisions of the majority.

    The attempt to buy the election to make Mr. Obama a one-term President: Strike one

    The sequestration: Strike two

    The shut down: Strike three

    You're out.

    After the next election, I do not think they'll even BE the majority in the House any more.

  12. #2537

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    Not so fast there my friends, I do not think the issue is with Obamacare itself but rather that there is no way to PAY for it.

    I think that the financial mess brings up a good question though and that would be: Is the budget problem so severe that the Government is actually close to "running out of money?" Clearly the answer is yes and if that is truly the case then the Republicans have a valid point.

    Anyone who has ever played a game such as Sim city, Roller coaster tycoon or some other sim, knows that in the long run you absolutely must have more money coming in than going out. If the budget is not in the condition that it needs to be in, than that should be corrected immediately. I suppose it actually should override everything else because it is just that important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soaring Pikachu View Post
    Anyone who has ever played a game such as Sim city, Roller coaster tycoon or some other sim, knows that in the long run you absolutely must have more money coming in than going out. If the budget is not in the condition that it needs to be in, than that should be corrected immediately. I suppose it actually should override everything else because it is just that important.
    The U.S. isn't Roller Coaster Tycoon. We pretty much run on debt, increasing the ceiling every year and doing nothing to fix the problem in the meantime. The gov't isn't running out of money, rather, they have severely over budgeted themselves. That's why cuts and tax hikes are discussed, but... both sides have a vested interest in keeping both from happening.

    It's a really crappy system, really.
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  14. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soaring Pikachu View Post
    Not so fast there my friends, I do not think the issue is with Obamacare itself but rather that there is no way to PAY for it.

    I think that the financial mess brings up a good question though and that would be: Is the budget problem so severe that the Government is actually close to "running out of money?" Clearly the answer is yes and if that is truly the case then the Republicans have a valid point.

    Anyone who has ever played a game such as Sim city, Roller coaster tycoon or some other sim, knows that in the long run you absolutely must have more money coming in than going out. If the budget is not in the condition that it needs to be in, than that should be corrected immediately. I suppose it actually should override everything else because it is just that important.
    When will you people stop focusing on the cost and START focusing on how much it will help people?? How many lives it will save?? You people think that citizens are statistics, and that's wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    In real life, the ACA was first introduced by the House by Charles Rangell
    Sorry, that's my error. I never would have guessed that a bill titled '"Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009' had anything to do with healthcare.
    The bill got lots of changes in the Senate, as well as its current name.
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  16. #2541
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    By the way, did you see this?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4107163.html

    The Houston Chronicle, one of Cruz's biggest endorsers, is saying they regret doing it.

    Honestly, has someone who has endorsed a candidate EVER done that? I mean, seriously, I can't think of a single serious person who gave an endorsement who later admitted he shouldn't have done it, much less a Republican one.

    Breaking news: Ted Cruz has given up.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4109222.html

    Oh, he didn't say so, but that is what he means.

    It's all over but the vote. Republicans lose. The ACA is staying.

    To mark this occasion, I'm adding this link, and it won't be the last time:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE


    I'm going to celebrate with that song every time the farce that the Republican Party has become is dealt a defeat. Expect a lot of it in 2014.
    Last edited by Maedar; 16th October 2013 at 7:13 PM.

  17. #2542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Honestly, has someone who has endorsed a candidate EVER done that? I mean, seriously, I can't think of a single serious person who gave an endorsement who later admitted he shouldn't have done it, much less a Republican one.
    Orlando Sentinel along with several other newspapers who endorsed Obama in 2008 election reversed their decision for 2012 and endorsed Romney.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,6927962.story


    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    It's all over but the vote. Republicans lose. The ACA is staying.
    Ahh yes lets look at the greatness of ACA right?

    http://www.katu.com/news/investigato...&tab=video&c=y

    http://my.chicagotribune.com/#sectio.../p2p-77808576/

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...miums-avik-roy

    So far the "Affordable" Care Act is not looking so "Affordable" the only thing Obamacare or "404Care" as some people are calling it is that the website is so messed up people can't even see the premium increases forced upon them.

  18. #2543
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    Well look who's back. This will be fun.

    I'll quote Ted from the article...

    "The deal that has been cut provides no relief to the millions of Americans who are hurting because of Obamacare. The deal that has been cut provides no relief to all the young people coming out of school who can't find a job because of Obamacare."

    But the thing is, Mr. Sam-I-Am-Lame, it is VERY good for people who have illnesses or conditions they could die from or suffer from their entire lives who can only get insurance using Obamacare. Which is more important for those non-existent reasons you mentioned as to why we shouldn't have it.

  19. #2544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Well look who's back. This will be fun.

    I'll quote Ted from the article...

    "The deal that has been cut provides no relief to the millions of Americans who are hurting because of Obamacare. The deal that has been cut provides no relief to all the young people coming out of school who can't find a job because of Obamacare."

    But the thing is, Mr. Sam-I-Am-Lame, it is VERY good for people who have illnesses or conditions they could die from or suffer from their entire lives who can only get insurance using Obamacare. Which is more important for those non-existent reasons you mentioned as to why we shouldn't have it.
    So the few who sadly have to suffer is more important than the millions more that will be suffering from it? Oh but there is a solution!

    http://www.sfgate.com/business/netwo...dy-4891087.php

    Make less money, and you can be better off under the "Affordable" Care Act!

  20. #2545
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    Lutz, know how last Monday was for me? Terrible.

    Woke up early in the morning with a toothache. A horrible toothache. Kept me from sleep for two days, because I couldn't call the dentist until Tuesday, and he couldn't squeeze me in until Wednesday.

    When I got there, I found out that the horrible pain was not due to a cavity, but due to an infection (maybe food getting caught under my dental work) so he prescribed some antibiotics. Two days later, pain was gone.

    Now, if I didn't have insurance (which I would lose without the ACA), I wouldn't have been able to afford to go to that dentist OR get those antibiotics. I would have had to go to some clinic, and they likely would have just extracted the tooth, and made the pain worse.

    I'd be in the same horrible pain right now that I was last Monday, which would make me curse the name of the people who killed the ACA, and would never consider supporting or voting for them again.

    You think about that. And by the way, I'm not clicking on your links.

  21. #2546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Lutz, know how last Monday was for me? Terrible.

    Woke up early in the morning with a toothache. A horrible toothache. Kept me from sleep for two days, because I couldn't call the dentist until Tuesday, and he couldn't squeeze me in until Wednesday.

    When I got there, I found out that the horrible pain was not due to a cavity, but due to an infection (maybe food getting caught under my dental work) so he prescribed some antibiotics. Two days later, pain was gone.

    Now, if I didn't have insurance (which I would lose without the ACA), I wouldn't have been able to afford to go to that dentist OR get those antibiotics. I would have had to go to some clinic, and they likely would have just extracted the tooth, and made the pain worse.

    I'd be in the same horrible pain right now that I was last Monday, which would make me curse the name of the people who killed the ACA, and would never consider supporting or voting for them again.
    Again it is horrible that some would have to suffer from the removal of it, but the pain inflicted on even more through higher premiums on again what was supposed to be the "AFFORDABLE" Care Act is far worse for the middle class and America overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    You think about that. And by the way, I'm not clicking on your links.
    If you won't click on the links then you cannot be informed on what my argument is, which means you are not debating.

  22. #2547
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...miums-avik-roy

    So far the "Affordable" Care Act is not looking so "Affordable" the only thing Obamacare or "404Care" as some people are calling it is that the website is so messed up people can't even see the premium increases forced upon them.
    I believe we've gone into Avik Roy before, but aside from that:

    Regarding premiums going up -- as I'm to understand the scope of the ACA, that's the doings of the insurance companies.
    Regarding downtime -- are you in any way surprised, though? The lead was really gotten out on that issue arguably in a way that nobody was really expecting. Site faces heavy traffic, site goes down like a professional in Nevada. Should they have prepared better? Yes, of course. But, come on, what site or internet service doesn't experience technical difficulties during bouts of extreme traffic? I really don't know if this argument is fair. At least, not as an argument against Obamacare itself.

    Now, to be sure, I think that Obamacare isn't that great of a system of healthcare reform. But I also believe that a single-payer system would be preferable, which is pretty much never going to happen in America (mind, my state did propose a single-payer health care system that was never enacted, but the legislature didn't seem completely unfavorable to it), so my opinions don't reflect those of all of the American left. Really, I think the best part of the ACA may be the part that insurance companies can't turn you down for preexisting conditions, but I also think it's immoral to gamble on human lives.
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  23. #2548
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Admiral View Post
    I believe we've gone into Avik Roy before, but aside from that:

    Regarding premiums going up -- as I'm to understand the scope of the ACA, that's the doings of the insurance companies.
    And the reason why the insurance companies are raising premiums is to meet the standards for their policies put in place by Obamacare.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Admiral View Post
    Regarding downtime -- are you in any way surprised, though? The lead was really gotten out on that issue arguably in a way that nobody was really expecting. Site faces heavy traffic, site goes down like a professional in Nevada. Should they have prepared better? Yes, of course. But, come on, what site or internet service doesn't experience technical difficulties during bouts of extreme traffic? I really don't know if this argument is fair. At least, not as an argument against Obamacare itself.
    That would be wrong as well

    The architecture of the Obamacare website is absolutely horrid, and as such it is not the traffic but how the website was designed that is causing the problems.

    " For instance, when a user tries to create an account on HealthCare.gov, which serves insurance exchanges in 36 states, it prompts the computer to load an unusually large amount of files and software, overwhelming the browser, experts said.

    If they are right, then just bringing more servers online, as officials say they are doing, will not fix the site."

    http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-exper...3--sector.html

    The Government only took ONE bid on this website, and apparently never beta tested it, and in the end of the day it turned out rather terrible.

  24. #2549
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    Keep denying it Lutz.

    Deny that the ACA is a good thing.

    Deny that the President will benefit.

    Deny that the Republicans will suffer.

    But read this:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4107578.html

    And then just TRY to deny that the Republicans are the losers here.

  25. #2550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Keep denying it Lutz.

    Deny that the ACA is a good thing.

    Deny that the President will benefit.

    Deny that the Republicans will suffer.
    I do not have to deny anything the proof has been all over the news

    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    But read this:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4107578.html

    And then just TRY to deny that the Republicans are the losers here.
    Oh I believe the Republicans lost in the debt debacle, they should have not done it and allowed the news cycle to go wall to wall on the horrible roll out of Obamacare

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