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Thread: American Politics: THANKS OBAMA

  1. #1276
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    It's like I'm arguing "potential justifications for the illegal activity" and not "this wasn't illegal activity", you almost had me for a minute there.
    So freedom of speech has now become a illegal activity?

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    I[citation needed, and I'm expecting no less than WSJ and/or NRO here]
    " When Jennifer Stefano of suburban Philadelphia tried to start a tea party group, the IRS sent her so many questions that she figured it was easier to quit.

    "In the documents that were sent to me, if you did not tell the whole truth by not putting all your personal information out there by Facebook, by Twitter, of your personal relationship with candidates and parties ... it could be considered perjury and perjury carried jail time," Stefano, 39, told ABC News.

    "That was frightening and that's why I shut it down. I shut my group down." "

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/irs-a...r#.Ucpk-pzgdTm

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    I've done it before, but it happens against people who actually, y'know, tend to be right.
    As I am now, maybe next time you should avoid blaming the victim just because they do not agree with you ideologically.

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    So freedom of speech has now become a illegal activity?
    I'm pretty sure we're both referring to the application of heightened scrutiny being illegal activity; please try to pay attention.

    When Jennifer Stefano of suburban Philadelphia tried to start a tea party group, the IRS sent her so many questions that she figured it was easier to quit.
    Being prevented from starting does not equate to being shut down, given that the latter requires that something have started in the first place.

    As I am now, maybe next time you should avoid blaming the victim just because they do not agree with you ideologically.
    Like I said - if left-wing anti-tax groups were complaining about the same shit from the IRS I'd be "blaming" them just as hard for drawing unnecessary attention, but for some reason they don't seem to exist.
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  3. #1278
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    I'm pretty sure we're both referring to the application of heightened scrutiny being illegal activity; please try to pay attention.
    And yet here you are defending it

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    Being prevented from starting does not equate to being shut down, given that the latter requires that something have started in the first place.
    Distinction with out a Difference she had the beginnings of a group and the extra scrutiny provided by the IRS stopped her from moving forward. Try to pay attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    Like I said - if left-wing anti-tax groups were complaining about the same shit from the IRS I'd be "blaming" them just as hard for drawing unnecessary attention, but for some reason they don't seem to exist.
    Yeah it's almost as if the IRS acted out of illegal political reasons here... who would have thought?

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    And yet here you are defending it
    It's almost like I'm in a grey area of "I don't really care about this given the argumentative basis I've already provided and given that most, if not all, of the responsible parties have already been fired" on this.

    Distinction with out a Difference
    You are implying that the scrutiny forced existing small groups to stop operating as tax-exempt, something that is explicitly implied with the usage of the term "shut down", rather than preventing new groups from operating as tax-exempt, something that would be explicitly implied with the usage of a different term. You can't shut down what isn't operating, much like you can't shut down a computer that's already off.

    That's a distinction with a difference, sorry.
    Last edited by John Madden; 26th June 2013 at 6:12 AM. Reason: the things i can do with semantic arguments
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    It's almost like I'm in a grey area of "I don't really care about this given the argumentative basis I've already provided and given that most, if not all, of the responsible parties have already been fired" on this.
    They have? Last time I checked Lois Lerner has not been fired, have the members of the 12 different IRS groups that targeted the Tea Party organizations been fired yet?

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/25/tw...conservatives/

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    You are implying that the scrutiny forced existing small groups to stop operating as tax-exempt, something that is explicitly implied with the usage of the term "shut down", rather than preventing new groups from operating as tax-exempt, something that would be explicitly implied with the usage of a different term. You can't shut down what isn't operating.

    That's a distinction with a difference, sorry.
    And you claimed and I quote "Pretty sure it's not a mistake to say Tea Party 501(c)(3)s aren't victims in the slightest, given that their activity wasn't actually meaningfully impeded." I believe I have provided proof of impediment

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    Last time I checked Lois Lerner has not been fired
    You'll notice I started that line off with "most", given that I already know Lerner is still employed by the federal government.

    have the members of the 12 different IRS groups that targeted the Tea Party organizations been fired yet?
    To my knowledge, most of them have.

    I believe I have provided proof of impediment
    Stefano's group, while a Tea Party group, was not a Tea Party 501(c)(3) group at the time of her application.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    You'll notice I started that line off with "most", given that I already know Lerner is still employed by the federal government.
    Just curious how you make this claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    Stefano's group, while a Tea Party group, was not a Tea Party 501(c)(3) group at the time of her application.
    She was in the process of becoming one, and the IRS through their tactics forced her to shut down. If you wish to claim no 501(c)(3)s were impeded I will agree but that is not the problem here, the problem here is the IRS impeeding those applying for 501(c)(3) status

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    Just curious how you make this claim.
    Not sure where I read it, but I recall Lerner being one of the exceptions to terminations/administrative leave related to this (with Miller and Paz being the most prominent of those fired).

    (I also certainly should've said "most of the employees whose investigations have been concluded", given that most of the inquiries into their behaviour are still ongoing, so I'd be wrong to claim "most" in general.)

    If you wish to claim no 501(c)(3)s were impeded
    That's the beauty of being very specific with my word choice: I have been claiming that. :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    Not sure where I read it, but I recall Lerner being one of the exceptions to terminations/administrative leave related to this (with Miller and Paz being the most prominent of those fired).

    (I also certainly should've said "most of the employees whose investigations have been concluded", given that most of the inquiries into their behaviour are still ongoing, so I'd be wrong to claim "most" in general.)
    You should have said that, looks like you were not being very specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    That's the beauty of being very specific with my word choice: I have been claiming that. :P
    In which case your argument has no baring on the current debate

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    To be fair, the current debate has no bearing on any issue that affects me or anyone in any of my networks in any way (and that includes a sizable number of people in the Tea Party).

    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    By the way, Lutz, the GOP members of your State Senate are cheaters.

    And pretty much every spectator seemed to think so.
    My favourite part about what's going on now is the fact that Davis's filibuster got halted because of a warning that was not germane to germaneness.
    Last edited by John Madden; 26th June 2013 at 6:31 AM.
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    By the way, Lutz, the GOP members of your State Senate are cheaters.

    And pretty much every spectator seemed to think so.

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    Fox News Channel: US Officials Challenge Putin over Snowden Claims, Push for Extradition
    Fox News Channel: Major Websites in North and South Korea Shut Down on War Anniversary
    New York Times: Standoff in China Drags On for U.S. Man Held by Workers

    The Twitter reactions throughout today were enough to make me laugh, now citing references to the thieving sprees of Carmen Sandiego. I can’t imagine what Russian President Vladimir Putin and his oligarchs would be pondering after the information they had regarding all those jihadists running amok in Chechnya and its neighbors, and Scandinavia’s intelligence operatives could follow suit. The diplomatic back-and-forth may be better off spared, from Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov’s observations about territorial entry to Senator Lindsey Graham’s continued calls, and I’m not quite certain what to opine about Tailored Access Operations after this snafu. For my part, I’m willing to avoid any special scenarios about this former contractor this time around. One imagines that the Korean Peninsula’s war 63 years ago today might offer some additional underlying bitterness after everything else the United States has done, and as we press forward, our cyberwarfare capabilities should be certain to receive their own upgrades. Somebody attacked both sides earlier this morning, including a cyberattack against the Blue House, the official residence and workplace of President Park Geun-Hye herself. If it’s any help, however, the current attacks don’t appear to be as serious and widespread as the ones leading up to the Boston Marathon bombings. Hackers associated with Anonymous claimed to be behind other cyberstrikes against North Korea, and they didn’t respond to any requests from the Associated Press to talk to them directly. Between this and what’s happening with the businessperson, it appears that more payback-oriented individuals are taking action on their own. Chip Starnes, who founded and leads a company specializing in medical supplies, “was kept out of sight” throughout the day, in a dispute that started with the closure of an injection molding division followed up by an announcement of a move to India. Rumors began to circulate that this executive was planning to flee the country altogether without paying the workers one last time, and apparently, this type of disturbance has happened quite a few times already. This global entanglement may already be enough to make quite a few people’s heads spin, and it excludes the jihadists themselves.:

    Fox News Channel: #Jihad: Report Shows Extremist Groups Flocking to Twitter
    Fox News Channel: Taliban Claim Responsibility for Suicide Attack in Afghanistan, Say CIA Base Targeted
    Spiegel: Hasnain Kazim: Exodus: Afghan Diplomats Defect as Western Withdrawal Nears

    Disheartening, perhaps? Well, if we find Al-Qaeda’s Twitter team, we could just stay silent and watch their propaganda operations in action. The Combating Terrorism Center released this new report, also earlier today, stating that new recruits to the terror group start participating in physical violence after a round of online activity “where exposure to the media had an effect on their personal lives and understanding of religious conflict”, from the place formerly known as Syria all the way to Burma, I guess. Face-to-face contact was the standard before the suicide attacks of September 11, 2001, but now that social media’s spreading worldwide, that standard is declining. The Taliban could use this sooner or later, following up on that attack against the presidential palace, right in the middle of a scheduled conference for President Hamid Karzai. Some residents in Kabul initially thought the gunfire to be a coup attempt… until the Taliban revealed themselves as they likely did. Taliban fighters “with false papers and military-style uniforms bluffed their way through two checkpoints on their way to the palace before jumping out of their explosives-packed vehicle and opening fire” on the surrounding guards. I recall learning about one journalist trapped in the presidential palace as the attack wore on, which could only prompt further alarm among Afghan diplomats, such as the ones who defected to their separate host countries or applied for extensions until the presidential election to be held in early 2014. Talk about a headache.
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    Now, swingin' back a little bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The Supreme Court has struck down Section Four of the Voting Rights Act as Unconstitutional!!!!! This will allow states previously governed by it to move forward with their voting ID laws!!!!!
    Interesting that they ruled Section 4 as unconstitutional without actually explaining what part of the Constitution was violated, particularly in light of the fact that any such interpretation would undermine the existence of the Fifteenth Amendment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    By the way, Lutz, the GOP members of your State Senate are cheaters.

    And pretty much every spectator seemed to think so.
    How so? Havnt been keeping up what has been going on in the State Senate.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster
    Interesting that they ruled Section 4 as unconstitutional without actually explaining what part of the Constitution was violated, particularly in light of the fact that any such interpretation would undermine the existence of the Fifteenth Amendment.
    I would think you would have to go back to the arguments but I would believe it would be the Equal Protection Clause.

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    They made her stop her filibuster forty-five minutes before midnight by claiming she had broken the rules, because they knew she was going to make it. See, they all wanted to go on vacation, and your idiot governor would have scheduled more sessions until the bill passed.

    And the whole crowd booed them. That's how popular your party is in Texas, it seems, when they try to ram unpopular laws through.

    But it didn't work. The Democrats appealed the ruling, and they're going to have to do this again.

    Cheaters never prosper, Lutz. They'll find that out the hard way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    How so? Havnt been keeping up what has been going on in the State Senate.
    I'm going to give the actual parliamentary reasons:

    Davis was warned for "assistance" with her back brace early on and wound up accruing two warnings for germaneness, after which the GOP forced her to yield her filibuster, even though it was only the germaneness warnings that should've applied.

    Also, more recently (as in the past hour), Sen. Duncan just flat out ignored precedence in terms of speaking time in clear violation of the Texas Senate's rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    I would think you would have to go back to the arguments but I would believe it would be the Equal Protection Clause.
    In which case they implore Congress to apply preclearance to the entire country, rather than running roughshod over Section 2 of the Fifteenth Amendment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    They made her stop her filibuster forty-five minutes before midnight by claiming she had broken the rules, because they knew she was going to make it. See, they all wanted to go on vacation, and your idiot governor would have scheduled more sessions until the bill passed.

    And the whole crowd booed them. That's how popular your party is in Texas, it seems, when they try to ram unpopular laws through.

    But it didn't work. The Democrats appealed the ruling, and they're going to have to do this again.

    Cheaters never prosper, Lutz. They'll find that out the hard way.
    Yeah the Democrats learned previously the hard way that Cheaters Never Prosper, they fled the state twice before in the early 2000s to prevent redistricting after the Republicans got power. By the way I do not see how a crowd in the Senate is a reflection on the whole state.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster
    In which case they implore Congress to apply preclearance to the entire country, rather than running roughshod over Section 2 of the Fifteenth Amendment.
    I believe they have asked Congress to create a new method of preclearance based on today's standards.

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    By the way, now that Markey has gained Kerry's Senate seat, I'd like to thank the GOP so much for not objecting to Kerry becoming Sec. of State. We couldn't have done it without you.

    And I'd especially like to thank Scott Brown.

    (Man, I just love this...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    I believe they have asked Congress to create a new method of preclearance based on today's standards.
    [Un]fortunately, it's looking like it's going to take Democratic majorities in both chambers in order for a new preclearance formula to make it through, given that the GOP seems to be changing its tune from just seven years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    By the way I do not see how a crowd in the Senate is a reflection on the whole state.
    I don't know if it's just the crowd in the Senate at this point.

    e: And now they're claiming the bill passed 17-12, even though the alleged roll didn't actually start until after midnight (which would violate the Texas Constitution)
    Last edited by John Madden; 26th June 2013 at 7:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    By the way, now that Markey has gained Kerry's Senate seat, I'd like to thank the GOP so much for not objecting to Kerry becoming Sec. of State. We couldn't have done it without you.

    And I'd especially like to thank Scott Brown.

    (Man, I just love this...)
    Let's also thank the GOP for blocking Elizabeth Warren's nomination in being head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, allowing her to run against Scott Brown for the Senate and win by a eight point landslide, allowing Kerry to be nominated to make her a SENIOR Senator, and then a member of the Senate Banking Committee. Boom!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Let's also thank the GOP for blocking Elizabeth Warren's nomination in being head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, allowing her to run against Scott Brown for the Senate and win by a eight point landslide, allowing Kerry to be nominated to make her a SENIOR Senator, and then a member of the Senate Banking Committee. Boom!
    You do realize considering that Obama was running and providing down ticket help in the heavily blue Massachusetts. By blocking Warren's nomination the Republicans got the best side of the deal. Warren would have been head of the Bureau, and two Democrats would be in the seats now. Instead Warren isn't head of the Bureau and takes up one of the two seats.

    Quote Originally Posted by eBay Huckster View Post
    [
    e: And now they're claiming the bill passed 17-12, even though the alleged roll didn't actually start until after midnight (which would violate the Texas Constitution)
    The Texas Constitution is such a cluster F because of the terms laid out after the Civil War ( From what I can remember of College Texas Government, we actually had a pretty well written constitution in terms of how to work Amendments and such before the Civil War, afterwards the new one has Amendments piled on one after another that continues today ), that almost anything could be found in violation of the Texas Constitution. Honestly I would ask some of you to take a look at it some time, it is a complete and utter mess.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 26th June 2013 at 8:05 AM.

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D336067

    Bill defeated.

    Cheaters never prosper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Possibly because it was a low turn out election that did not have the furor behind it that Obamacare had in 2010.
    The fact that 2010 was a low turn-out election was the whole reason Scott Brown won in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D336067

    Bill defeated.

    Cheaters never prosper.
    Yes, because the Democrats have the perfect track record when it comes to politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The Texas Constitution is such a cluster F because of the terms laid out after the Civil War ( From what I can remember of College Texas Government, we actually had a pretty well written constitution in terms of how to work Amendments and such before the Civil War, afterwards the new one has Amendments piled on one after another that continues today ), that almost anything could be found in violation of the Texas Constitution. Honestly I would ask some of you to take a look at it some time, it is a complete and utter mess.
    You're comparing it to Civil War era politics and calling it competent?

    Uh, Lutz, why don't you look up the Articles of Confederation and compare them to the actual Constitution? You'd see a not-so-subtle difference. (As in, the Articles of Confederation, by comparison, look like something a ten-year-old wrote.

    I also tend to laugh whenever Jefferson Davis is called "the Confederate President" in any reference source. "Corrupt southern hick" is more like it, more incompetent than any true President we've ever had (even James Buchannan, whose refusal to do anything helped start the Civil War, or Andrew Johnson, likely the biggest reason Reconstruction failed.)

    Honestly.

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