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Thread: Is it just me who doesn't hate the fillers of Johto?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Comedy View Post
    So not having your opinion makes someone not a Pokemon fan?
    No, not liking a very big aspect of Pokémon makes it. And I said real Pokémon fan, which is used for die-hard fans. I urge you to think a bit more carefully before commenting.


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    Number of people accused of being a Genwunner = 100 000 000 000 000 000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilda View Post
    No, not liking a very big aspect of Pokémon makes it. And I said real Pokémon fan, which is used for die-hard fans.
    I liked certain parts of Johto, but didn't like most of it.

    Does that mean I'm not a die hard fan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Comedy View Post
    I liked certain parts of Johto, but didn't like most of it.

    Does that mean I'm not a die hard fan?
    I clearly remember saying ''hate''. Disliking a few parts because it was monotone and such is ok. But some people go ''OHHHH, why did Johto even exist!!! Oh the Tragedy!!''


    Number of Genwunners = 100
    Number of people accused of being a Genwunner = 100 000 000 000 000 000
    Number of people complaning about Genwunners = 100 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000

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    I remember back in the day when they did a pokemon marathon once. The entire marathon was a string of fillers. God that was infuriating.

    Now I can just skip to the good eps and ignore the fillers that plagued the region and pretend they never existed

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie View Post
    I started watching the anime again after about ten years or so (I lost Kids WB around 2002 or so), and I actually enjoyed the Johto episodes so far. Not sure what I see in them that others don't seem to, but I enjoy the fillers.
    There will of course people others who enjoy Johto's fillers.

    As with everything, there's always a large amount of people who will like and dislike a certain thing, the more popular something is, the larger these two sides are.

    Personally, I haven't watched Johto in a long while, but I'm pretty sure I enjoyed it when I did watch it, and I'm sure I'll enjoy watching them again whenever I get around to doing so.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilda View Post
    Johto is pretty amazing. Those who hate it are not real Pokémon fans.
    Considering the vast majority of the original fanbase stopped watching regularly back in the middle of Johto, I don't know what you're talking about.

    Most people never even made it through all of Johto in its original run. It was shortly after the 3rd movie debuted and after Charizard left that the original fanbase was drifting.

    That's why some people didn't even know Misty was gone till like 2004-2005, simply because they stopped watching in the middle of Johto and came back when we were in the middle of Hoenn and didn't know what happened.

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    Ugh, I'm glad I missed out on most of Johto. I only caught one episode at the airport (I lived close to no WB Stations back then) and it was just a dumb filler about Remoraid shooting into a rock.

    So glad Hoenn more than made up for the atrocious Johto.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilda View Post
    I clearly remember saying ''hate''. Disliking a few parts because it was monotone and such is ok. But some people go ''OHHHH, why did Johto even exist!!! Oh the Tragedy!!''
    You're still not backing up your statement from earlier that Street Comedy mentioned~

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    I started watching again from Episode 1 onward, and I'm currently about 1/3 of the way through Johto Champions, being one of those original fans who stopped watching early in Johto.

    I don't think anyone's arguing that there's too much filler, but for me most of it is still good enough. Like somebody else mentioned, I enjoyed seeing Lickitung in action a lot more in Johto, until Wobbufett came along. But if I ever work my way back around, I know which episodes I'll be skipping, though that's not exclusive to the Johto saga.

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    Personally i gave chance to any pokemon series with each saga having good chunk of good and bad episodes. I admit how Johto indeed had fairly notable number of easily forgettable no purpose episodes, but it also had many memorable ones as well. I liked episodes including mini competitions such as grass tournament, bug catching contest, competition about putting down fire etc.

    There were many enjoyable episodes focusing on Misty, Brock, TR and flesh out of their characters. Such as " Fortune Hunters" about pokemon horoscope, "Forest Grumps" where James and Meowth got stuck with Misty and Jessie with Ash and Brock having to work together and escape from Ursaring". "Heartbreak of Brock"where Brock almost got married, "Unbearable" where Misty was deceived by Teddiursa charm fiercely defending her, "Wired for Battle" where Heracross was involved in fierce battle against Scizor. And many, many more.

    Putting bad episodes aside in comparison to DP fillers and all those practicing for appeals i often found Johto episodes involving more humor and more engaging interactions between main cast.

    Quite frankly i never understood such immense hatred for non plot related episodes" fan term =fillers).
    Its like people would want that show should only include gym battles, episodes about pokemon captures and character development turning series in game with no real story and sense of adventure going on,.

    Not to mention with such approach there wouldn't be enough material to allow for creation of sustainable, stable storyline lasting long enough until new games come out
    To truly get know characters and flesh their personalities out, provide adventurous feel to series being treated like coherent story with sense of progression rather than some gameboy stage its good from time to time to have episodes based on humor and lighthearted side of adventure often adding required appeal to TV series by maintaining viewers attention preventing them from ending tired with plot related episodes.

    Of course exaggeration in any form leads to lose of interest as well, but non plot related episodes in moderate amount are necessary to have stable, balanced story allowing to relate better to characters and fully enjoy in storytelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Considering the vast majority of the original fanbase stopped watching regularly back in the middle of Johto, I don't know what you're talking about.
    Not quite, its more that most original fanbase stopped watching after Misty left and original trio was split up.

    Amount of complaining which came afterwards and surprisingly big demand for return only further indicates this.

    Your right about popularity starting drifting away in middle of Johto, but real decline happened at end of OS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thriller View Post
    Ugh, I'm glad I missed out on most of Johto. I only caught one episode at the airport (I lived close to no WB Stations back then) and it was just a dumb filler about Remoraid shooting into a rock.

    So glad Hoenn more than made up for the atrocious Johto.
    To be fair, if you never watched most of some saga than you can't really form full picture on some series and if they had required appeal to suit your taste. Johto had quite a few bad episodes, but it also had many enjoyable episodes as well with fans often doing mistake of classifying everything which isn't gym battle as "filler". Also Master Quest was probably highlight of that series having many great arcs about Team Rocket organization, Whirl islands which gave some quality focus on Misty water goal, one of best leagues and several memorable episodes focusing on Misty, Brock or TR.

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    I think a lot of people enjoyed Johto, but I can't imagine anyone nowadays wanting to have to go through 3 years in a region with the majority of episodes being filler, even if the majority are entertaining.
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    Yeah the fact that they don't have as many "stupid wins" in Hoenn is also good.
    Thunder Armor.

    Aiming for the Horn / Tongue of a Pokemon would technically work from a physical standpoint. To be fair, there were also Pokemon in Kanto who used the reverse strategy to defeat Pikachu (Jeanette Fisher's Bellsprout). What happened in that battle was something that science (or anyone present) couldn't really explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    I think a lot of people enjoyed Johto, but I can't imagine anyone nowadays wanting to have to go through 3 years in a region with the majority of episodes being filler, even if the majority are entertaining.
    That was the problem for most of us who were already teens when Johto was airing:

    - Ash didn't get to capture any cool Pokemon in Johto. They just gave him the starters, gave him ONE evolution over 150 episodes (Bayleef), and dumped Heracross way too fast and Phanpy came too later. His Johto team, at least before Unova, was his worst developed team of the series.

    - Gary only appears 3 times prior to the league. For Ash's main rival of the series, its absolutely absurd that Gary barely appeared in Johto at all. Especially since this was his last saga as a main rival.

    - Misty and Brock didn't really get as much screentime or development as needed. Aside from May and Dawn, even Iris and Cilan are getting a bit more to do in comparison to Misty/Brock. Why Misty and Brock couldn't get regular tournaments, have rivalries, or battle more often has always been strange.

    - WAAAAY too much Ash focus. Again, this goes with above. He's the main character, but it doesn't mean he's the only one to carry the show. Future generations focused on Ash's travel companions much better, and gave them actually proper development in the show.


    That being said I did enjoy some parts of Johto, and I really liked the tail-end of Master Quest. My guess is this is the first time the writers were forced to stretch one region out over 3 years, and they had no clue how to do it without just making endless fillers.

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    It's not that nobody likes the fillers, they were actually all very entertaining and fun.

    The problem is that a TONNE of them were unnecceserry and ultimately dragged the Johto Saga on for too long that the viewers got bored. The other problem is how they were spaced out horribly giving times where we would have 30 episode gaps between Gym Battles.

    Basically, the Johto saga should have been kept short and sweet. Infact, it should have paced itself like Best Wishes. The Best Wishes formula would have suited it fine.

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    I like Johto When I was a Kid, But considering that was easily 8-9 Years Ago I Can't really remember much. I Think I Just had different standards back then. Nostalgia probably wouldn't make me change my mind now either.

    The Only Filler I've Really hated in Pokemon Is In DP Where it took so long to get to the 8th Gym Battle. So many of those episodes could have been used to make the end of the season feel less rushed and it just Irks me.

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    Anyway, I usually am more forgiving towards the writers in the Original Series just because it was the 'early years.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Anyway, I usually am more forgiving towards the writers in the Original Series just because it was the 'early years.'
    The Johto saga technically isn't, the "early years."

    It was the whole second generation. Classic Pokemon ended with Orange Islands at the latest.

    When people think of "classic" pokemon, they think of Ash with Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard on his roster, not the Johto team. Johto was neither the first saga of 8 Gyms, nor did it have Ash's original team for most of it. That's what people remember about the early seasons.
    Last edited by CyberCubed; 25th December 2012 at 6:01 AM.

  18. #43
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    I quite enjoyed Johto, okay it was the era were I first lost interest in the series but that was because I was a young kid who was just copying everyone else, but I've been back and rewatched all the episodes since then, its not as bad as people on here make it out to be. I'd prefer it to BW were everything is rushed and it just doesn't seem like the pokemon have had time to develop, and its fillers are more enjoyable than ones from AG imo, but that's probably because I couldn't care much for the characters in AG.
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    But the problem is Johto was long and still nobody really developed. Ash's Johto team didn't go through much development at all. I still can't believe Ash only had one evolution over the entire 150 ep span of Johto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingMinun View Post
    I quite enjoyed Johto, its fillers are more enjoyable than ones from AG imo, but that's probably because I couldn't care much for the characters in AG.
    Yeah, I said the same thing too. AG doesn't appeal to me at all with its dull fillers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel~ View Post
    Yeah, I said the same thing too. AG doesn't appeal to me at all with its dull fillers.
    You never watched much of the show past Johto, so don't post comments on sagas you've never seen.

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    I've seen enough to know, so don't post remarks on things you don't know. Its a very unwise thing to do if you didn't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    The Johto saga technically isn't, the "early years."

    It was the whole second generation. Classic Pokemon ended with Orange Islands at the latest.
    Yet more often than not people include Johto along with Kanto and Orange islands as classic era of pokemon.
    Which is probably because of original trio, older pokemon from Ash being largely present taking away focus from JOhto pokemon etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    But the problem is Johto was long and still nobody really developed. Ash's Johto team didn't go through much development at all. I still can't believe Ash only had one evolution over the entire 150 ep span of Johto.
    Im not sure how "no one developed"?

    Ash became abit more mature and strategic in pokemon battles which can be noticed during Johto gym battles and battles in general not being so brash, naive and hotheaded like we used to see him in Kanto, OI days. We also saw some of pokemon like Bayleef growing as well realizing she became too heavy to jump in Ash lap and became less infatuating after evolution.

    Misty became more mature and levelheaded growing to appreciate her friendship with Ash and Brock , improved as trainer and got over complex of feeling inferior compared to sisters. Growth which was further carried to chronicles and specials after departure becoming more responsible and confident in herself and abilities as trainer. We had quite a few episodes focusing on her growth like "For Crying Out Loud", Whirl cup arc, "Some Like it Hot" etc.
    We saw Brock enriching his knowledge as breeder learning about new medicines and potions applying his knowledge on several occasions. Such as taking care of young Stantler, entering breeder contest with Suzie etc.

    To extent we can say Gary grew a bit too becoming more calm deciding what he wants to do with life.

    Admittedly gaps between moments where characters or pokemon experienced some form of growth were big often filled with episodes of no importance, which i guess made such things less memorable.

    But yes in Johto there existed development, even though it wasn't done on daily basis not being treated as coherent story telling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Yet more often than not people include Johto along with Kanto and Orange islands as classic era of pokemon.
    Which is probably because of original trio, older pokemon from Ash being largely present taking away focus from JOhto pokemon etc.
    Its still not the first season or original generation. If you want to get technical you can't even include Orange Islands because Tracey was there instead of Brock.

    When people think of the original series they think of Ash with his original team of Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard....they weren't like that for 80% of Johto.

    Im not sure how "no one developed"?

    But yes in Johto there existed development, even though it wasn't done on daily basis not being treated as coherent story telling.
    I agree with your points, but nobody developed, "enough."

    Most of the stuff Misty/Brock went through was pretty much forgotten as soon as the next episode. Misty never brought up that Marill again, Brock never brought up that Stantler again, etc.

    Also did anyone realize that Misty and Brock each only make one capture for the entire span of Johto? All Misty caught was Corsola and Brock only caught Pineco, but that's it. An entire generation with only one capture for each of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Its still not the first season or original generation. If you want to get technical you can't even include Orange Islands because Tracey was there instead of Brock.

    When people think of the original series they think of Ash with his original team of Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard....they weren't like that for 80% of Johto.
    To be fair in most cases people pair Orange Islands with Kanto because it was still part of first generation. As for Johto while it was second generation considering how its classified as part of OS is probably main reason why many people view whole set as classic era of pokemon,.

    I met many fans which consider Johto classic as well.

    I agree with your points, but nobody developed, "enough."

    Most of the stuff Misty/Brock went through was pretty much forgotten as soon as the next episode. Misty never brought up that Marill again, Brock never brought up that Stantler again, etc.
    True this events weren't brought up again, but through this episodes it was set up groundwork through which their characters gradually developed over time. We saw Misty growing more independent and abit more mature before writers explored more on this through hosos with complex with sisters, or her competition in Whirl Cup being brought up in future episodes (such as encounters with Sakura). Her bond with Marill allowed her to better understand feelings of her own pokemon such as Poliwhirl who she helped about self esteem issue.

    And she just stopped caring about bike and became more understanding to Ash idiocy despite her annoyance becoming closer as friend to him and Brock calling them in Johto quite a few times as "new family", making even so harder for her to leave them.

    Ash battle style improved more which can be noticed especially in gym battles against girl with Scarmory when he trained Cyndaquil, against Claire, Pryce or Chuck using Machoke strength against himself etc.,

    He in behavior became less stubborn and rivalry with Gary became less offensive growing to respect each other concluding it through spectacular finale in Johto league.

    Granted there existed voids between this moments and i agree how this wasn't enough at all, but still we could have seen gradual growth in characters to an extent.

    Also did anyone realize that Misty and Brock each only make one capture for the entire span of Johto? All Misty caught was Corsola and Brock only caught Pineco, but that's it. An entire generation with only one capture for each of them?
    Admittedly that was one of biggest down points for Johto. Although to be fair Brock technically only caught one new pokemon in Kanto as well, since Vulpix was borrowed to him.

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