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Thread: Is it just me who doesn't hate the fillers of Johto?

  1. #76

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    I actually really like Johto. As a kid, I only watched a few of the AG episodes, so about 8 months ago I started watching from episode 1.
    I just finished Forest Grumps, and Spell of the Unown (3rd movie, takes place after Forest Grumps).
    I also watched a few of the ending episodes before, and I realized that even though the fillers are enjoyable, no character development happens.
    Like I know in Kanto, he was starting up, and his starters were powerful and won him many battles (but they were all owned by previous Trainers)
    but in Johto....no one evolved except Chikorita.
    I had hoped for at least a Feraligatr.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohtoLeagueChampion View Post
    I actually really like Johto. As a kid, I only watched a few of the AG episodes, so about 8 months ago I started watching from episode 1.
    I just finished Forest Grumps, and Spell of the Unown (3rd movie, takes place after Forest Grumps).
    I also watched a few of the ending episodes before, and I realized that even though the fillers are enjoyable, no character development happens.
    Like I know in Kanto, he was starting up, and his starters were powerful and won him many battles (but they were all owned by previous Trainers)
    but in Johto....no one evolved except Chikorita.
    I had hoped for at least a Feraligatr.
    For marketing purposes in that little kid TV show it makes sense that only Chikorita evolved because it was the Pokemon that after it evolved was still cute. I was hoping for Ash to get his Cyndaquil to evolve while he was still in Johto, but that just never happened either.

  3. #78
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    No, they have some of my favorite episodes like Hour Of The Houndour; Forest Grumps; Power Play; UnBEARable; Extreme Pokemon and One Trick Phoney. And you need to have fillers because not every episode can be a gym battle or a contest or a Pokemon capture, the fillers are there to have some fun and blow off some steam before or after a major event. Not every episode can be perfect, all tv shows have episodes that are better than the other.

  4. #79

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    Yeah, the fillers are great
    Better than BW episodes in my opinion...

    & I also kinda wish Ash's Totodile stayed at the Cerulean Gym.
    I seriously doubt Ash'll ever use it again.
    Then again, I also thought he'd never use Noctowl again after Johto..

  5. #80

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    Like Ash had allowed it to stay there as opposed to Oak's.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapidash01 View Post
    No, they have some of my favorite episodes like Hour Of The Houndour; Forest Grumps; Power Play; UnBEARable; Extreme Pokemon and One Trick Phoney. And you need to have fillers because not every episode can be a gym battle or a contest or a Pokemon capture, the fillers are there to have some fun and blow off some steam before or after a major event. Not every episode can be perfect, all tv shows have episodes that are better than the other.
    Same for me. Power Play and Hour of the Houndour are two of my very favorites. xD

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapidash01 View Post
    No, they have some of my favorite episodes like Hour Of The Houndour; Forest Grumps; Power Play; UnBEARable; Extreme Pokemon and One Trick Phoney. And you need to have fillers because not every episode can be a gym battle or a contest or a Pokemon capture, the fillers are there to have some fun and blow off some steam before or after a major event. Not every episode can be perfect, all tv shows have episodes that are better than the other.
    Yeah, and Pokemon is no exception.
    One can't expect major event after major event for hundreds of episodes.
    ~marioluigifan05

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    Yeah, and Pokemon is no exception.
    One can't expect major event after major event for hundreds of episodes.
    ~marioluigifan05
    And yet they did Kanto in only 83 episodes. There was no reason for Johto to be stretched across 3 seasons and 157 episodes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    And yet they did Kanto in only 83 episodes. There was no reason for Johto to be stretched across 3 seasons and 157 episodes.
    If you exclude "Johto League Champions," the Johto arc has some really, really good episodes. That's the one I felt was the worst among all three Johto seasons, personally.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    And yet they did Kanto in only 83 episodes. There was no reason for Johto to be stretched across 3 seasons and 157 episodes.
    82 episodes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    If you exclude "Johto League Champions," the Johto arc has some really, really good episodes. That's the one I felt was the worst among all three Johto seasons, personally.
    Really? I thought "Master Quest" was the worst. Each Johto season kept getting weaker, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Really? I thought "Master Quest" was the worst. Each Johto season kept getting weaker, IMO.
    Master Quest had some decent arcs though, like the Whirl Cup, Baby Lugia, Red Gyarados, the Claire Gym arc, Larvitar arc, and then the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    82 episodes.



    Really? I thought "Master Quest" was the worst. Each Johto season kept getting weaker, IMO.
    ROFL. I did like "The Johto Journeys" the most, though, of the Johto Saga. So I'm in agreement that was the best Johto Season.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Master Quest had some decent arcs though, like the Whirl Cup, Baby Lugia, Red Gyarados, the Claire Gym arc, Larvitar arc, and then the league.
    Yep. Those were well-done, IMO.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Master Quest had some decent arcs though, like the Whirl Cup, Baby Lugia, Red Gyarados, the Claire Gym arc, Larvitar arc, and then the league.
    I only liked the Red Gyrados and the League, and even they had their issues. The Whirl Cup, Baby Lugia, Claire, and Larvitar arcs sucked, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    I did like "The Johto Journeys" the most, though, of the Johto Saga. So I'm in agreement that was the best Johto Season.
    "The Johto Journeys" was the best, yes. "Johto League Champions" started out well enough, but once it became apparent that the GS Ball dropped off with Kurt last season was never, ever coming back into play and we instead had entered Filler Hell, it was all downhill from there for the Johto Saga.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 22nd January 2013 at 6:06 PM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    And yet they did Kanto in only 83 episodes. There was no reason for Johto to be stretched across 3 seasons and 157 episodes.
    It wasn't really length which was Johto main issue, but lack of substantial plot to move story forward. Aside from gyms and some episodes where Misty and Brock went through some growth there wasn't on going story which would reduce on number of non important episodes and add more context to it.

    GS ball supposed to serve that purpose but once it was dropped writers lost their main plot finding themselves in front of wall. Not to mention they should had create chin of competitions through which Misty career could be pushed forward filling up time between gyms. Whirl islands arc as whole was great start injecting some growth with all foreshadowing about Corsola capture, water tournament etc but it happened abit late never getting sequel.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Really? I thought "Master Quest" was the worst. Each Johto season kept getting weaker, IMO.
    Strangely enough imo Master Quest was probably best season with writers fixing several flaws made before. Number of pointless fillers decreased significantly, Misty and Brock received more focus, there were several arcs introduced which contributed to current plot(Like Whirl Cup, Red Gyarados, Lugia, Larvitar etc), gym leaders were depicted in better light (like Pryce and his past or Clair which pulled with itself mini arc about Dragonite) group pokemon started to gain better development along with Johto Silver Conference being one of best leagues we ever had.

    And it has many memorable episodes in which i truly enjoyed such as "Just Waiting on a Friend" with Ninetales hypnotizing Brock with Misty and Ash trying to snap him out, "Some like it Hot" where Misty clashed with fire trainer Egan revealing why she likes so much water, "Hocus Pokemon"which turned Ash in freaking Pikachu, "Will the real Oak stand up" having showdown between real professor and James etc.

    At least in my view they were excellent episodes.

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    Actually I loved Johto up until after the Morty Gym Battle. After that one, I found Johto boring. I actually prefer Johto Journeys over Johto League Championship and Master Quest. I'll be honest, the only thing I really liked at all about Master Quest was the Johto League and the awesome Blaziken debut. That was legendary. But if you take the Johto League out of Master Quest, the only thing I really liked would probably had been Casey's final appearance. Shame they didn't do more with her, for what she was she was fun. I also love the episodes with Sakura and her Kimono sisters. I forget if they were in Johto League Championship or Master Quest. Regardless I liked those episodes and loved the Sakura character. When Misty said she would be joining them, I jumped for joy. I wanted to see her and Ash as a tag team to take on all of Johto, and be BFF's with Misty. Why did you tease me writers? Why? Sakura and her Eevee/Espeon would have been epic! Other fillers I like that are overlooked were the Houndour episode. I know it's minor but wasn't that like the first time Ash encountered a Dark Pokemon? I also enjoyed Jigglypuff in that small rivalry with Snubbull when thy fought over the microphone. It was a fillers filler, but I liked it. Johto had some nice episodes that I enjoyed, it's just overall not as good as the other sagas. But I personally think Johto is better then most give it credit for.
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  16. #91
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    I actually thought Master Quest was the strongest Johto season because even though some of the arcs may or may not have missed their potential, I still felt like Master Quest was actually trying to go somewhere with the development and the plot. I mean you had TR plots like the Lugia arc and the Red Gyrados one and while I don't remember much about the former, I thought the latter was well done and entertaining enough. I thought both the Pryce and Clair Gym episodes were great. Pryce's arc was actually somewhat emotional and the Clair arc was awesome for Charizard coming back and the fact that her gym battle was one of my favorites in Johto helps too. The Larvitar arc had a lot going for it and I loved the episode with the Unknown. Although I HATED the poachers that tried to steal Larvitar and Tyranitar. The Johto League was a very strong league and gave good backstory and development to both Ash and Gary as well as good battles and a good format. And episodes like the Ninetails one didn't have the same formula that most of the Johto fillers did.

  17. #92
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    Lol, I'm weird. I was never crazy for Master Quest, but I did love the league. The backstory with Ash and Gary was great and I felt they ended the rivalry well. Altough I admit, I would have loved to have seen Pikachu beat Umbreon, but whatever. The Gary and Harrison battles were amazing. If nothing else, Johto had like the best league for me...well tied with AG's league. I wasn't crazy about the Lugia arc either. I don't know why. I will say that Team Rocket and the Red Gyarados was nicely done. Leading up to Pryce was also cool too. I wish Casey made it to the league.
    Parena or Serecham both equal Serena+Pancham!

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    And yet they did Kanto in only 83 episodes. There was no reason for Johto to be stretched across 3 seasons and 157 episodes.
    Reason: The anime started halfway through Kanto's run in the games. However, since the anime was in full swing once the Johto games came out, they had to stretch the season to run from the beginning of that generation to the end.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    I wish Casey made it to the league.
    Yeah! She was one of the trainers who I was really hoping to see at the Johto League that just never showed up. I totally thought she was going to! xD

  20. #95
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    I love all of Johto. It is my favorite season.

  21. #96
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    A lot of the fillers about grass pokemon tended to be the worst. I hated that Sunflora episode especially since it came directly after Charizard's departure episode. Good god.

    Then those awful episodes about Hopip, Sunkern, Oddish, Jumppluff and so forth. The only good one was the Skiploom filler since it involved a grass pokemon tournament. A lot of eps about generic water pokemon like Remoraid, Mantine, Chinchou, and Octillery were also a pain.

    I've noticed the only really good Johto fillers are the ones about Team Rocket or the ones that involve battling, like the Scizor/Heracross ep, the Sumo tournament, and so forth.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Then those awful episodes about Hopip, Sunkern, Oddish, Jumppluff and so forth. The only good one was the Skiploom filler since it involved a grass pokemon tournament. A lot of eps about generic water pokemon like Remoraid, Mantine, Chinchou, and Octillery were also a pain.
    Episode with Octillery wasn't filler. Misty and Ash subscribed for Whirl Cup and battled in preliminaries in that episode.
    Sunkern episode wasn't filler either since group meet up with recurring character from Kanto Todd(photographer?)foreshadowing arc about Articuno.

    This is what im pointing out from start. Lot of episodes in Johto people label as fillers even when this isn't the case.

    And i actually liked episodes about Mantine such as when they met Luka who can be viewed as recurring character since she was involved in Lugia part too. It depicted him in interesting light and whole story about sunken ship with Ash and co trying to find lost treasure had unique feeling to it. It reminds me of episode about ghost ship from Orange Islands haunted with ghosts.

    Sam goes for second episode where unofficial gym leader Dorian used Mantine. It was enjoyable to see him in battle and i liked clash going on between him and Misty when sisters were brought up.

    I've noticed the only really good Johto fillers are the ones about Team Rocket or the ones that involve battling, like the Scizor/Heracross ep, the Sumo tournament, and so forth.
    I can agree about this, but i also liked episodes involving Misty and Brock in action or ones about recurring pokemon like Delibird. I miss that bird and his bag full of unexpected surprises never knowing what will come out of it.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 23rd January 2013 at 3:38 PM.

  23. #98
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    Johto is the worst saga for several reasons :
    - Lots of fillers ! Especially in the first two seasons (the third season was better).
    - GS BOT PLOT
    - Poor league : Charizard, Snorlax steal the spotlight in the last battles, and Bulbasaur & Squirtle in first battles
    - Only ONE evolution : Wow, Bayleef, so strong
    - Poor team development : Seriously, Phanpy & Heracross were catched for ... nothing ? They were boxed so easily ... At least, Battle Frontier & Sinnoh League gives them spotlight ....
    - Horrible match-up in gym battles
    - No rival ... Cassidy & Gary didn't appear so much

    Falkner : Pikachu, Chikorita, Charizard
    Bugsy : Pikachu, Chikorita, Cyndaquil
    Whitney : Pikachu, Totodile, Cyndaquil
    Morty : Pikachu, Noctowl, Cyndaquil
    Chuck : Pikachu, Bayleef
    Jasmine : Pikachu, Cyndaquil
    Pryce : Pikachu, Cyndaquil
    Clair : Pikachu, Snorlax, Charizard

    Pikachu in all gyms ? Cyndaquil / Charizard spamming (and without Cyndaquil's evolution) ? Heracross ? Phanpy ? Totodile ? Noctowl ? Only Chikorita was decently used. The others were spammed or not used

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by sSerenity View Post
    - No rival ... Cassidy & Gary didn't appear so much
    Cassidy? Do you mean Casey, or Cassidy and Butch?

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    I meant Casey (Why did I write Cassidy ... ?)

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