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Thread: How would you rank the Unova league in comparison with past leagues?

  1. #326
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    At least Snivy forced a mid-battle evolution out of Riolu, that's something. But it's sad she has the same move-set she came with when she was caught in episode 7. Oshawott, Boldore, Palpitoad, and Unfezant all disappointed.

    Just for once I'd like to see Ash go a region without having to catch a obligatory bird. Catch something else that flies lol. I also wouldn't have minded if Krokorok was caught earlier as a Sandile, and I'm surprised they took so long to give it to Ash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Aker View Post
    Just for once I'd like to see Ash go a region without having to catch a obligatory bird.
    But you just said, it's obligatory! :P


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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Aker View Post
    At least Snivy forced a mid-battle evolution out of Riolu, that's something. But it's sad she has the same move-set she came with when she was caught in episode 7. Oshawott, Boldore, Palpitoad, and Unfezant all disappointed.
    Meh, any Pokemon would have lost to Bianca's Dad's Darmanitan and you know good and well the writers just used his as fodder to show Chili had become more competent, I think a battle against Pansage to a draw would have been more fitting however. Oshawott has done pretty well with the odds weren't against him and he's battling seriously. Snivy forcing an evolution isn't super-impressive tbh, at least Oshawott dented Hydreigon enough for Pignite to smash it.

    Just for once I'd like to see Ash go a region without having to catch a obligatory bird. Catch something else that flies lol. I also wouldn't have minded if Krokorok was caught earlier as a Sandile, and I'm surprised they took so long to give it to Ash.
    Since I saw Sandile I always thought it was a cute and entertaining Pokemon, I was estatic when it was caught. I wish he had kept his gag of going wimpy when he lost em', but he's definitely the strong Unova Pokemon on Ash's team and the most league-ready outside of Pikachu, shame he probably won't get many more battles.

    Speaking of kickass comedic Water-types. I'm reminded of how amazing Corphish was in its first league, knocking out three of Morrison's Pokemon, Swalot and Tropius, and Golduck XD Ash had entirely too many Pokemon and too many rivals imo and we should have gotten some fodder trainers with interesting designs and dialogue like that league. The Sinnoh and Unova Leagues messed up in that regard for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    But you just said, it's obligatory! :P
    If he has to catch one, just stay away from the Normal/Flying setup. Make it something interesting like Honchkrow..that was Dark/Flying. Noctowl was cool being a Psychic/Flying...it never did much though.
    Last edited by Graham Aker; 14th January 2013 at 5:10 PM.

  5. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    You guys can complain about Sinnoh league all you want, but Ash ended up taking down 2 legendary Pokémon, one of which was used by Tobias to sweep through all eight gyms of Sinnoh. Tobias may have been a cheap way to get Ash to lose, but it truly showed that Ash was powerful and capable trainer despite losing. In contrast, Unova League just made Ash look pathetic.

    It's like the writers had a meeting and then someone said: "Hey, let's make a completely crappy league everyone will hate!"

    Simply awful. Sinnoh and Hoenn leagues are two of the best leagues in Pokémon anime.
    While I fully agree with you on Tobias, because that's what I've been saying ever since getting over the shock of Latios, I still wouldn't go as far as saying that Sinnoh is one of the best leagues in the animé. Simply because:
    - Ash vs. Nando: was a 6.5 at best, and we can thank TR for that..
    - A battle was mostly skipped, with Snorlax finishing it off, while other pokemon needed such a quick cameo win more, even if it were a cameo win. I.e.: Scraggy beating Darumaka > Snorlax beating Grumpig.
    - Torterra getting no wins at all vs. Paul.

    And probably my second biggest irk with the Sinnoh League aside from Torterra:
    - Some pokemon being used as fall guys that didn't need exposure either way: Swellow, Torkoal. Sure, they were fallguys so it's not a huge problem, but if it were possible to show other pokemon in a league fight, then why not Muk, Kingler, Totodile, or Bayleef that haven't fought since Johto?

    If we saw Bayleef, Muk on the screen, while Totodile took out Grumpig, then that would've been exceptable, and if they had switched Torkoal for Kingler, then that would've made the Sinnoh League for me. But they didn't.. They went with Snorlax, Torkoal and Swellow, which all three didn't need the exposure considering their efforts in the BF.

    Hoenn was a good league, eventhough I had issues with Morrison, and felt that some double battles fell flat because the opponents were uninspiring. I know that one guy looked like Harry Potter with Charizard and Quilava, and that another guy had Tropius and Swalot, but I can't remember the face or name at all.. Katie was a cool realistic battle and I give them props for giving a full battle to a cotd, and even doing three full battles btw.. So yeah, battlingwise probably the best of what I'd be searching for, but in the sense of urgency, it felt flat because Ash had no 'long running rivals' during this league -even a Conway would've worked-, and the one that he did meet had the arguably worst battle of the league.

    I do have irks with other leagues as well though.. But I guess that if there ever were to be a mixture of the Hoenn and Sinnoh leagues, that it would score very high in my book.

    Prelims: Win against a minor character, that we've seen before, like Jeffrey in Sinnoh, or Katharine in Unova for instance
    None traditional battle style second round: Win against a Stephan-like trainer
    None traditional battle style third round: Win against a Nando-like trainer
    Full battle: Win against a Katie/Conway-like trainer
    Full battle: Win against a Paul-like trainer
    Full battle: Loss against Tobias-like trainer

    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    I agree that it's still not as bad as Unova, but Tobias ruined Sinnoh's, pretty much, the final battle should have been Ash vs Paul, considering how drawn out it was.
    You need to understand that Ash vs. Paul was all that mattered to the writers in Sinnoh. After that fight was over, the arc was pretty much over.. Sinnoh was never about how high Ash would place in the Sinnoh League, but how he would beat Paul in the end. He did, so from a writers perspective, the series was pretty much over.. Then they had to make a quick transition to the fifth generation, which was upon them at that point. They could do another Ash vs. Tyson thing, but that would only say so much if the runner up also went to that length against this Tyson-like trainer. Hence they figured, if we make Ash the only character in Sinnoh to get past Darkrai, then people will see that he was actually the second strongest, better then the runner up if you will.

    If you feel that Tobias ruined Sinnoh's finale, then you might not have watched the same series. The finale was when Infernape KO'd Electivire. All three episodes past that were transitionary episodes the writers used to get the heck out of Sinnoh asap, with Ash getting to fight something big before leaving to Unova.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    You need to understand that Ash vs. Paul was all that mattered to the writers in Sinnoh. After that fight was over, the arc was pretty much over.. Sinnoh was never about how high Ash would place in the Sinnoh League, but how he would beat Paul in the end. He did, so from a writers perspective, the series was pretty much over.. Then they had to make a quick transition to the fifth generation, which was upon them at that point. They could do another Ash vs. Tyson thing, but that would only say so much if the runner up also went to that length against this Tyson-like trainer. Hence they figured, if we make Ash the only character in Sinnoh to get past Darkrai, then people will see that he was actually the second strongest, better then the runner up if you will.

    If you feel that Tobias ruined Sinnoh's finale, then you might not have watched the same series. The finale was when Infernape KO'd Electivire. All three episodes past that were transitionary episodes the writers used to get the heck out of Sinnoh asap, with Ash getting to fight something big before leaving to Unova.
    Glad you see it that way. But would it have killed them to give the guy a LITTLE backstory, though, so he wouldn't be a complete Gary-Stu plot device?
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  7. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    As stand alone battles is was OK. The problem is this was a league. This is the climax of an entire region that everything Ash, his Pokemon team and his rivals built toward all saga.

    Instead of feeling like some epic conclusion, it felt like some random non-important tournament.
    And this is why I agree full heartedly that it was a huge disappointment considering it's length, and way it was treated.

    I personally agree it's because of the Club Battle, Donamite and Juniour Cup. The League was treated as a slightly extra long tournament with a flashback intro and ending to make it seem that bit more special. Fair enough the flashbacks with music worked in my eyes, but that doesn't defeat how disappointing this turned out to be.

    And to actually have Ash regress by getting a worse rank than before is disturbing. Its almost like the writers are flat out telling us they made Ash into a terrible trainer again.
    Eh, I actually have no problem with Ash regressing. Top 8 isn't actually bad out of 200+ (OS AG DP) 100+ (BW) trainers, and no trainer is ever guaranteed to keep improving. It's more realistic Ash reaching the Top 8 again. What made the Top 8 seem so bad in terms of regressing is that we only watched Ash properly face Trip, Stephan and Cameron, who he lost to. If we had more battles we'd have felt that Ash had run his time and gotten to the point where the trainers will be tough. What ultimately took a turn for the worst is that he lost to Cameron, a complete idiot who makes you wonder where Ash is going wrong. I mean don't get me wrong Cameron had an incredible team and Pikachu vs Lucario was awesome (one of my faves), but the way Cameron was portrayed by the writers only made Ash seem weak and basically saying, if you forget to get an 8th Badge, think the Unova League is in Johto and bring 5 Pokemon to a FULL battle, you'll win hands down.

    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    As for the regression...I don't think most would disagree with Ash getting top 8. That's pretty much what he deserved.
    Agreed, but he shouldn't have lost to Cameron, he should have lost to another trainer with Lucario at least.

  8. #333
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    1.Hoenn
    2.Sinnoh
    3.Johto
    4.Kanto
    5.Unova

    I'm sorry, but it was clear that the Unova league was rushed, poorly written. Ash's team was bad and the writers knew it. He lost to Cameron, the noob of the series. The Eevee trainer won the league! How is that possible?
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  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    While I fully agree with you on Tobias, because that's what I've been saying ever since getting over the shock of Latios, I still wouldn't go as far as saying that Sinnoh is one of the best leagues in the animé. Simply because:
    - Ash vs. Nando: was a 6.5 at best, and we can thank TR for that..
    - A battle was mostly skipped, with Snorlax finishing it off, while other pokemon needed such a quick cameo win more, even if it were a cameo win. I.e.: Scraggy beating Darumaka > Snorlax beating Grumpig.
    - Torterra getting no wins at all vs. Paul.

    And probably my second biggest irk with the Sinnoh League aside from Torterra:
    - Some pokemon being used as fall guys that didn't need exposure either way: Swellow, Torkoal. Sure, they were fallguys so it's not a huge problem, but if it were possible to show other pokemon in a league fight, then why not Muk, Kingler, Totodile, or Bayleef that haven't fought since Johto?

    If we saw Bayleef, Muk on the screen, while Totodile took out Grumpig, then that would've been exceptable, and if they had switched Torkoal for Kingler, then that would've made the Sinnoh League for me. But they didn't.. They went with Snorlax, Torkoal and Swellow, which all three didn't need the exposure considering their efforts in the BF.

    Hoenn was a good league, eventhough I had issues with Morrison, and felt that some double battles fell flat because the opponents were uninspiring. I know that one guy looked like Harry Potter with Charizard and Quilava, and that another guy had Tropius and Swalot, but I can't remember the face or name at all.. Katie was a cool realistic battle and I give them props for giving a full battle to a cotd, and even doing three full battles btw.. So yeah, battlingwise probably the best of what I'd be searching for, but in the sense of urgency, it felt flat because Ash had no 'long running rivals' during this league -even a Conway would've worked-, and the one that he did meet had the arguably worst battle of the league.

    I do have irks with other leagues as well though.. But I guess that if there ever were to be a mixture of the Hoenn and Sinnoh leagues, that it would score very high in my book.

    Prelims: Win against a minor character, that we've seen before, like Jeffrey in Sinnoh, or Katharine in Unova for instance
    None traditional battle style second round: Win against a Stephan-like trainer
    None traditional battle style third round: Win against a Nando-like trainer
    Full battle: Win against a Katie/Conway-like trainer
    Full battle: Win against a Paul-like trainer
    Full battle: Loss against Tobias-like trainer



    You need to understand that Ash vs. Paul was all that mattered to the writers in Sinnoh. After that fight was over, the arc was pretty much over.. Sinnoh was never about how high Ash would place in the Sinnoh League, but how he would beat Paul in the end. He did, so from a writers perspective, the series was pretty much over.. Then they had to make a quick transition to the fifth generation, which was upon them at that point. They could do another Ash vs. Tyson thing, but that would only say so much if the runner up also went to that length against this Tyson-like trainer. Hence they figured, if we make Ash the only character in Sinnoh to get past Darkrai, then people will see that he was actually the second strongest, better then the runner up if you will.

    If you feel that Tobias ruined Sinnoh's finale, then you might not have watched the same series. The finale was when Infernape KO'd Electivire. All three episodes past that were transitionary episodes the writers used to get the heck out of Sinnoh asap, with Ash getting to fight something big before leaving to Unova.
    And yet they ruined that battle too, seriously Heracross and Noctowl were the only thing that saved that league *rolls eyes*
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  10. #335

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    Something interesting to note about the Leagues.

    In both Sinnoh and Unova, the Leagues featured Ash losing to the Pokemon which was introduced as a main role in a movie debuting the next generation (despite being in the same saga's OS/AG).

    Latios appeared in Pokemon Heroes as the first titular role of Gen 3, and Lucario appeared in Mystery Of Mew as the titular role of Gen IV. If we were to follow this pattern could it mean Ash will lose to a Zoroark in Gen VI?

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    Pikachu vs Lucario was good, and Riolu's evolution was probably deserved. But when you think about it, Kotetsu could have only brought 3 Pokemon and STILL beat Ash lol. Hydreigon would have taken care of Boldore/Oshawott, Samurott would have beaten Pignite still, and Riolu/Lucario would have just swept through the rest of Ash's team. Really I don't even think Kotetsu needed Ferrothorn and Swanna there. :P
    Last edited by Graham Aker; 14th January 2013 at 8:09 PM.

  12. #337
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    Ash vs Stephan was the highlight of this league.
    Ash vs Trip was too soon, and rushed.
    They skipped matches.
    Kanto was better because that was the first, therefore I can forgive it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Something interesting to note about the Leagues.

    In both Sinnoh and Unova, the Leagues featured Ash losing to the Pokemon which was introduced as a main role in a movie debuting the next generation (despite being in the same saga's OS/AG).

    Latios appeared in Pokemon Heroes as the first titular role of Gen 3, and Lucario appeared in Mystery Of Mew as the titular role of Gen IV. If we were to follow this pattern could it mean Ash will lose to a Zoroark in Gen VI?
    That's an interesting thought. It would be pretty cool, but it would also get repetitive. i mean... it would be a pretty good battle (hopefully) but it would be predictable, as most likely it would be a seriously overpowered pokemon.

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  14. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitzy909 View Post
    That's an interesting thought. It would be pretty cool, but it would also get repetitive. i mean... it would be a pretty good battle (hopefully) but it would be predictable, as most likely it would be a seriously overpowered pokemon.
    I know what you mean, but i'd love to see a full blown battle with a Zoroark in a League for the final so it could work. Considering Genesect is the final BW movie, the pattern will stop as we won't get another Lucario/Zoroark so it won't be repetitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Aker View Post
    If he has to catch one, just stay away from the Normal/Flying setup. Make it something interesting like Honchkrow..that was Dark/Flying. Noctowl was cool being a Psychic/Flying...it never did much though.
    Noctowl is normal flying, it just has access to psychic based moves.

    I know most people hate this league, but I do gotta give the writers credit for 2 things.

    1. Ejecting the main rival in the first round: I liked this because it was a new concept, and yes i know people complain about the "tide being turned" too quickly, but it's not like we haven't seen that before in Ash's battles, not to mention Trip obviously didn't raise Serperior's endurance well since the moment it shrieked in pain from Thunderbolt while holding Pikachu it had to plant it's tail to stop the electrical output, that was the tip off that his Serperior's defenses weren't raised well because i've seen other grass types shrug off Thunderbolt without having to be on the ground to do it. Another thing was that other than Conkeldurr, none of Trip's other pokemon really got enough attention for viewers to care about them, so what good would it have been to send them in against Ash, yes the fight could've been a two on two with Conkeldurr being the other pokemon for Trip (as for Ash, Pignite or Oshawott) but i'll take what we got, Trip always thought too big and it cost him in the end, and I've seen worse turn arounds.

    2. The regression factor.

    I'm not gonna lie, given the fact that most of the people didn't give Ash a chance to win (as his Unova pokemon were deemed unworthy) I honestly am glad this happened, because while yes it's bad, it did serve as a huge wake up call to the fanbase that no one can predict what will happen.

    I mean let's think about it, if Ash had gotten top 4, most of you would've been like. "No big deal he'll get further next time" all stoic and bored, but no the one thing no one expected happened and it definitely caused everyone to wake up, and hopefully realise no one can ever be sure of what's going on.

    Also there is one other thing I just thought about, but does anyone else besides me think that Cameron only bringing in Five pokemon could've been a nod to Kanto 1 Ash using only five pokemon for the majority of his regional run? I mean sure it doesn't click at first, but after thinking about it for a while it could've very well been a nod, especially since the league ended in similar fashion to the indigo league for Ash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Aker View Post
    Pikachu vs Lucario was good, and Riolu's evolution was probably deserved. But when you think about it, Kotetsu could have only brought 3 Pokemon and STILL beat Ash lol. Hydreigon would have taken care of Boldore/Oshawott, Samurott would have beaten Pignite still, and Riolu/Lucario would have just swept through the rest of Ash's team. Really I don't even think Kotetsu needed Ferrothorn and Swanna there. :P
    Swanna did kind of soften up Pikachu for Lucario so I can't say it was completely useless, but I see what you mean.

    I get what they were going for with Cameron, he makes stupid mistakes but when he's on his game he can go with the best of him, much like Ash was early in his Pokemon career. But if Paul's presence in DP indicated anything, it's that an intelligent and collected trainer will beat a reckless and inconsistent trainer nine times out of ten, which is why Ash had to tighten up his strategies and battle intelligently to finally beat him in the end.

    And I think that's what bothers me about Ash's characterization in the Unova League. Ash used to be the one who made stupid mistakes against more experienced trainers, but if you look at his battle against Stephan, he switched strategically, he maintained the type advantage almost the entire match, and had his Pokemon learn new moves beforehand which he used to good effect. Those are the types things he learned during his battles in previous seasons. And yet now here he is losing to Cameron, who is much like the kind of trainer Ash used to be, which is why it feels like such a colossal step backwards for me. If they actually made it a major character moment where Ash realizes this, it might've been interesting. But from the looks of things they aren't going to pursue that road and have Ash just say "Oh well, better luck next time". It really does fell like they're spinning their wheels on this one.
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  17. #342

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    I'm hoping next League we get another powerhouse as the final (any fully evolved cool Pokemon *cough* Krookodile) of Ash's Team, and again the same Pokemon in Gen VII's final League battle. I don't really like the idea of mixtured Pokemon being the last for each League battle. So at least two like Charizard gained is fine with me.

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    It was.. meh, IMO.

    I definitely found it to be a lot better then the Sinnoh League but it still felt kind of rushed to me, not as bad as the Sinnoh League was though.

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    Gen 6 league should have no problems topping Unova League. xD


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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Gen 6 league should have no problems topping Unova League. xD
    Unless they regress Ash backwards even more like back to the top 16 XD. Hopefully that won't happen though and we'll get the AG or DP versions of Ash back
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Gen 6 league should have no problems topping Unova League. xD
    Haha please don't tempt fate!!

    I'm really interested in how the X/Y saga will look though. I doubt they will completely revamp everything this time besides Ash's outfit so i'm slightly worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I'm really interested in how the X/Y saga will look though. I doubt they will completely revamp everything this time besides Ash's outfit so i'm slightly worried.
    They'll revamp Ash's eyes so they have X in them? xD


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    Quote Originally Posted by ~SkyHigh~ View Post
    It was.. meh, IMO.

    I definitely found it to be a lot better then the Sinnoh League but it still felt kind of rushed to me, not as bad as the Sinnoh League was though.
    Wait what? The Sinnoh League had several great battles. It wasn't the best but it was certainly better than the Unova League which only gave Ash three battles including the worst final rival battle yet and had Ash loose to someone only using five Pokémon in a 6 on 6 match. At least Tobias had the rest of his party ready for Darkrai being knocked out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaiash View Post
    Wait what? The Sinnoh League had several great battles. It wasn't the best but it was certainly better than the Unova League which only gave Ash three battles including the worst final rival battle yet and had Ash loose to someone only using five Pokémon in a 6 on 6 match. At least Tobias had the rest of his party ready for Darkrai being knocked out.
    Lol rival, you mean mental patient who wandered onto the field.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaiash View Post
    Wait what? The Sinnoh League had several great battles. It wasn't the best but it was certainly better than the Unova League which only gave Ash three battles including the worst final rival battle yet and had Ash loose to someone only using five Pokémon in a 6 on 6 match. At least Tobias had the rest of his party ready for Darkrai being knocked out.
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