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Thread: Hail Team Attempt

  1. #1
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    Default Hail Team Attempt

    With this team I aim to try and use the Hail weather condition, but I try to bring in Hail later
    on in the match as opposed to leading with it as is more likely done. Half the team does not benefit from Hail at all, so I lead with either of them and hope that they can do their job and help out again when needed later even while Hail is up. I've gotten some good wins with this team but I feel there is a lot of room for improvement. Hopefully I can get some great help here, and with that let's take a look at this train wreck.


        Spoiler:- OLD Team build:


        Spoiler:- Latest Team:


    So there it is, I noticed that I don't really have a great STAB Blizzard user to take advantage of Hail. Perhaps I should use like a Scarf Kyurem or something. Starmie also seems like another good choice for Rapid Spin support and it can fire off better Blizzards than Tentacruel, though I like what Tentacruel brings to the team. I don't really want to use a full Hail team, but if the help I get takes me there then that would be fine. I hope to get any sort of help I can get.
    Last edited by Myrrh; 26th January 2013 at 5:45 AM.



  2. #2
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    Are you really planning to use Dragonite under Hail? with Multiscale?


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    I don't lead with Hail, but yes, I do realize that it would be problematic. Perhaps I can use a different ParaShuffler like Milotic or something I guess. Or something else you suggested.....can suggest.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciola View Post
    Are you really planning to use Dragonite under Hail? with Multiscale?
    Leftovers really helps with negating hail damage.
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    Yes, Leftovers helps in negating hail damage but it is still a problem in maintaining the Multiscale effect. In such circumstances, your only mode of recovery is Roost, since Leftovers is equalized by the passive weather damage. It would definitely screw your Dragonite's defensive tempo.

    I would suggest Gyarados or Cobalion (with Roar), a lesser option is Latias. Though using it would lessen offensive presence since it is not allowed with DT but Roar.


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    I really don't see the point of Abomasnow. Nothing really abuses hail besides like PZ to fire off some Blizzards along with Tentacruel but that's about it. Is it really necessary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrocious View Post
    I really don't see the point of Abomasnow. Nothing really abuses hail besides like PZ to fire off some Blizzards along with Tentacruel but that's about it. Is it really necessary?
    Yeah I know, I got thinking and I'm pretty sure I want to take out something for a Kyurem, likely Porygon-Z. I don't aim for this to be a full on Hail team, I would try to send in the non Hail abusers first to do their own thing and then bring in Hail later. But if this is crap then I can go ahead and try more Hail abusers.



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    synergy also is important, and a weater team doesnt have to be full weather abuse, it can also be used to hinder the opponent's weather. Btw P-Z should have Download, along with Blizzard. Also make it Timid, it needs all speed it can get.
    The team isnt exactly fighting weak 2/2 its rock weak 3/1
    Last edited by SkyDriver; 28th December 2012 at 11:52 PM.
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    Yeah so, I'm gonna take out Porygon-Z in favor of this:


    Kyurem Choice Specs/Modest
    Blizzard
    Draco Meteor
    Earth Power
    Focus Blast

    252 HP/Special Attack, 4 I don't know

    That gives me another Rock Weakness which I don't need. I think I'd like to take out Cobalion, Gyarados, and leave Dragonite, Tentacruel, and Abomnasnow on the team along with Kyurem. I'm thinking for a Steel type I'd go for Skarmory, but it might come in with Hail up making Sturdy useless. Right now I don't have much idea of what to do with this.

    I'm listing 252 HP cause I figure it's bulky enough to take some big hits or whatever. If I should 252 Speed then I'll do that. This post seems so meh to me :/



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    If you need some steel type Pokémon, I would suggest 3 of those:


    Metagross, leftovers, Adamant
    252 HP, 252 attack and 4 speed
    Meteor Mash
    Bullet punch
    Earthquake
    Zen headbutt
    It's a base moveset, really helpful if you need a Pokémon with high coverage


    Scizor, choice band, adamant
    Technician
    252 HP, 252 attack, 4 Special defense
    Bullet punch
    U-turn
    Pursuit
    Superpower
    The most reliable steel type of the metagame, I would suggest this if you really need a good Steel type.


    Registeel, leftovers, careful
    252 HP, 252 attack
    Stealth Rock
    Toxic
    Earthquake
    Iron head/Thunderpunch/Hammer arm (depends what kind of coverage you need)
    Registeel works well in OU metagames, if you ask me, takes fire attacks pretty well, can fight Heatran, Magnezone and Metagross without problems, just don't keep it against Infernape. Take this if you need coverage and a good attacker at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaria View Post
    If you need some steel type Pokémon, I would suggest 3 of those:


    Metagross, leftovers, Adamant
    252 HP, 252 attack and 4 speed
    Meteor Mash
    Bullet punch
    Earthquake
    Zen headbutt
    It's a base moveset, really helpful if you need a Pokémon with high coverage


    Scizor, choice band, adamant
    Technician
    252 HP, 252 attack, 4 Special defense
    Bullet punch
    U-turn
    Pursuit
    Superpower
    The most reliable steel type of the metagame, I would suggest this if you really need a good Steel type.


    Registeel, leftovers, careful
    252 HP, 252 attack
    Stealth Rock
    Toxic
    Earthquake
    Iron head/Thunderpunch/Hammer arm (depends what kind of coverage you need)
    Registeel works well in OU metagames, if you ask me, takes fire attacks pretty well, can fight Heatran, Magnezone and Metagross without problems, just don't keep it against Infernape. Take this if you need coverage and a good attacker at the same time.
    Okay, each of these seem good, thank you. I like the first two more since Toxic on Registeel seems counter intuitive with Dragonite wanting to Paralyze everything. I guess I'll try using one of these along with a 6th and see how the team does.



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    I would try Bounce>Earthquake because it has STAB, can paralyze, and what resists Flying, is usually hit hard by Waterfall. It also allows you to hit Breloom without being weak to Mach Punch.

    Also, I am kinda confused as to what this team is trying to accomplish. It doesn't have a solid core, defensive or offensive, and seems more like you put some pokemon that are good at what they do, just maybe not together...

    Synergy is kinda a problem. 3 pokemon are weak to fighting and 2 of the pokemon that resist fighting are weak to rock. The one pokemon who resists rock is weak to fighting. You're just asking for Terrakion to get a sub and sweep your team.

    You could try using Gliscor>Gyarados. He still has the Fighting resist while walling Terrakion to an extent. With the Toxic Orb and Ice Fang, it also is a good switch-in to Breloom. You could try to SD version. Gliscor rarely has Taunt nowadays, so it would be a good surprise and prevents phasing.

    I'll try to find a replacement for Cobalion later if you want one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow de Viridian Grove View Post
    I would try Bounce>Earthquake because it has STAB, can paralyze, and what resists Flying, is usually hit hard by Waterfall. It also allows you to hit Breloom without being weak to Mach Punch.
    Bounce is a free switch for your opponent and should never be used unless you're trolling with Wailord.

    However, the point about Terrakion is valid, he gets a clean 6-0 on you if he carries Earthquake. I'd recommend replacing Porygonz with a decent Terra check, something like Scizor.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    Bounce is a free switch for your opponent and should never be used unless you're trolling with Wailord.

    However, the point about Terrakion is valid, he gets a clean 6-0 on you if he carries Earthquake. I'd recommend replacing Porygonz with a decent Terra check, something like Scizor.
    Bounce is useful on Gyarados. The first set has it as the main slash. I've also used to much success.

    Starmie can also be used over Tentacruel. It retains Rapid Spin and a resistance to Fighting while being able to switch-in on Terrakions Close Combat and threaten to KO with Hydro Pump. Close Combat will also be used more ofter over Stone Edge due to the more damage and higher accuracy, so it should be easier to get Starmie in even if you have an ice type out, who is weak to Stone Edge and Close Combat.

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    Hi, as some other people said, it seems that this team isn't built around anything and it's hard to understand how your team is supposed to work. First of all, while Dragonite is bulky and decent phazer, it's rather counterproductive against more defensive or balanced teams, and the fact that Pokėmon, such as Poitoed or Ferrothorn don't really mind paralysis. Another thing is serious Terrakion weakness. I would like to suggest Physically Defensive Poliwrath. Not only it resists both of Terrakion's STABs, but you also get a decent Scizor and rain check in general as well as a decent Tyranitar counter. Secondly, you basically have no way to stop sun teams. Your best bet is probably Gyarados, which seems rather shabby. I would try Specially Defensive or Offensive Heatran. It sets up Stealth Rock, can phaze with Roar and spread burns with Lava Plume or poisoning with Toxic. If you decide to go with offensive one, you get pretty good offensive pivot against sun and Steel-types in general. My last suggestion would be either to run Stone Edge for Earthquake on Gyarados, or try Latias or Celebi, because as of now Breloom and Thundurus-T seem like a big threats and both of sugested Pokemon help with that. In all honesty, I would switch Kyurem either into Sub + 3attacks or Scarf set and change Abomasnow to either Scarf (then run Sub 3attacks Kyurem) or Mixed Expert Belt set, as both either let you check other Dragons or force some kills/switches.
    Sorry for basically rebuilding your team, I just tried to bring out full potential of this team and haven't rated in a while (so my rate migh be dull). I'll post sets tommorow after school (rating this team at 4AM and on phone), just in case you decide to go for some of these changes. Thank you for reading and I hope I was some kind of help.
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    Poliwrath only resists Stone Edge, not Close Combat. The only two Pokemon who resist its STABs are Gallade and Medicham.
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    Poliwrath is also terrible, with no base stat higher than 95. Gallade might be usable, but not defensively. You're best sticking with Gliscor or Skarmory, or something that can revengekill it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    Poliwrath is also terrible, with no base stat higher than 95. Gallade might be usable, but not defensively. You're best sticking with Gliscor or Skarmory, or something that can revengekill it.
    Sorry if I sound rude, but you should test some Pokemons before really bashing it stat-wise. Poliwrath works perfectly fine in this meta, and while Skarmory may be better at 'kind of' checking Terrakion, same with Gliscor, they all have different checks and counters. Not that I mean to be offensive here, it's just something worth considering to think about ^^
    Last edited by ashsinnoh; 8th January 2013 at 3:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashsinnoh View Post
    Sorry if I sound rude, but you should test some Pokemons before really bashing it stat-wise. Poliwrath works perfectly fine in this meta, and while Skarmory may be better at 'kind of' checking Terrakion, same with Gliscor, they all have different checks and counters. Not that I mean to be offensive here, it's just something worth considering to think about ^^
    There is no reason whatsoever to use Poliwrath over Vaporeon or Jellicent or Swampert or really any other bulky Water type. Absolutely 0. He has no useful niche whatsoever. Even in NU, I don't see why anyone would use it over Alomomola. Does he have reliable recovery? No. Does he have a unique ability? Nope. Does he have any real offensive prowess? Not really.

    Also, 252 Attack neutral Terrakion's Close Combat does 145-172 to 252 Defence positive Poliwrath. Guaranteed 2HKO after SR and 2 layers of spikes, small chance to 2HKO without hazards. In return, what do you do to it? Scald and hope for a burn?

    252 Attack neutral Choice Band Terrakion's a guaranteed 2HKO, so SubSD and Band Terra aren't even checked. In fact, Terra at +2 has a small chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 8th January 2013 at 3:30 AM.


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    Hail really doesn't benefit this team, all it does is cause trouble to Pokemon like Dragonite with a multiscale ability. What I'd recommend is running Specially Defensive SubCM Latias > Abomasnow. It gives Dragonite more room to take hits, and takes special attacks like a boss. It'd also give you a popular DoubleDrag team. Here's a set:

    Latias @ Leftovers
    248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Levitate
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Roost

    This helps with your noticeable weakness to strong special attackers like Specs Latios and Gengar. This team also hates Tornadus-T, which is why I also recommend Choice Scarf Jirachi > Cobalion. It can take a Hurricane, then KO the Tornadus with one of its coverage moves. It also helps with the special attacker weakness because U-Turn nails Lati@s and an para flinch gengar to death. Here's a set:

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Serene Grace
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Ice Punch
    -Fire Punh
    -Iron Head
    -Uturn

    This set also ties with Scarf Salamence to possibly prevent a moxie sweep.

    Hope I helped!




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    I would like to suggest Physically Defensive Poliwrath. Not only it resists both of Terrakion's STABs, but you also get a decent Scizor and rain check in general as well as a decent Tyranitar counter.
    Poliwrath resists Fighting? Neither Water nor Fighting resists Fighting...

    Sorry if I sound rude, but you should test some Pokemons before really bashing it stat-wise.
    Poliwrath isn't a good OU Pokemon, I have tried it myself a few times. Even with Swift Swim on a Rain Dance (NOT Drizzle) team.

    The most effective Terrakion check for me has been Gliscor, so I'm just gonna second the Gliscor recommendation on that one.
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

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    Quote Originally Posted by loco1234 View Post
    The most effective Terrakion check for me has been Gliscor, so I'm just gonna second the Gliscor recommendation on that one.
    The most effective Terrakion check atm would be Landorus-T who can simultaneously act as a pivot kinda dude, and takes Terraks +2 Rock Gem boosted Stone Edge. It also meshes a bit better with hail teams that aren't like, hail stall, I guess.




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    Okay, so I've made changes to my team, which is now this:

        Spoiler:- Latest Team:


    This team has done better than my previous build, though it still has problem areas. Gliscor was mostly filler as I didn't know what to add for a sixth, but it performed well in most battles. I think I might want a different pokemon to use as a Para-Shuffler. Too many times I have been surprised with a Hidden Power Ice when I attempted to Thunder Wave. I also see myself switching it in when I see a Pokemon on my opponent's team that can setup hazards, even though I have Tentacruel there. Besides Milotic, are there any other suitable Para-Shufflers?

    Also I'm considering using Starmie instead of Tentacruel, though I think 'cruel's defenses are more needed. Hm.....

    Should I go Choice Scarf on Kyurem instead? It seems to be good enough how I have it right now...

    If a different pokemon other than Gliscor can be found I'd like to hear suggestions, it does well but i think I can find something better and more suitable.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrh View Post
    Okay, so I've made changes to my team, which is now this:


    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Leech Seed
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    I would switch the nature to sassy and put wood hammer over sub, i ran it on my last hail team with great success

    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - toxic
    - Blizzard
    - Rapid Spin

    cruel likes toxic, ik giga drain gives you a recovery, but you`ll probably be better off with toxic to kill threats like tyrannitar and politoad as you teem seems a bit dependent on the hail


    Kyurem @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast

    I personally never tried speced kyurem, theorymon wise i would say its really good, but his speed is the big let down, so he needs to switch alot. Only advise is if this doesnt work try sub roost

    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Thunder Wave
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Para shifter is blah, but i can see how it helps kyurem

    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower


    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Ice Fang
    - Protect

    This team has done better than my previous build, though it still has problem areas. Gliscor was mostly filler as I didn't know what to add for a sixth, but it performed well in most battles. I think I might want a different pokemon to use as a Para-Shuffler. Too many times I have been surprised with a Hidden Power Ice when I attempted to Thunder Wave. I also see myself switching it in when I see a Pokemon on my opponent's team that can setup hazards, even though I have Tentacruel there. Besides Milotic, are there any other suitable Para-Shufflers?

    Also I'm considering using Starmie instead of Tentacruel, though I think 'cruel's defenses are more needed. Hm.....

    Should I go Choice Scarf on Kyurem instead? It seems to be good enough how I have it right now...

    If a different pokemon other than Gliscor can be found I'd like to hear suggestions, it does well but i think I can find something better and more suitable.
    comments in bold

    landorus therian and golurk as 2 good pokemon that can work in gliscors place of walling terrakion
    Landorus i is a big threat as it can OHKO everyone between hp ice, focus blast, and earth power, except dragonite with multiscales still up. Latias is your best option as it also helps with keldeo, but the only one to switch out for him is dragonite, so thats your call



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