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Thread: Jack of all Trades - Doubles

  1. #1
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    Default Jack of all Trades - Doubles

    Introduction:
    Hey there. I'm Kane and this is my first RMT team I put together for doubles. Now I'll try to keep as much detail as I can think of, but know that this team isn't one bit perfect and probably has many holes in it that need to be filled.

    Team Preview



    Now the order is not set and is subject to change. I built this team to cover the most of what they can and do damage, but the EVs I normally tended to spread out (though Dragonite-Serperior weren't EV trained properly). Anyways here they are.


    Dragonite @ Yache Berry
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: HP 122/ Attack 51/ Def 74/ Sp.atck 14/ Speed 249
    Nature: Jolly
    - Dragon Claw
    - Protect
    - Thunder Wave
    - Fire Punch

    Dragonite is the extreme powerhouse of the bunch. She was born to be fast and hit hard, sadly I didn't control her EV spread, so it's kinda eh. I gave her Yache due to it's apparent effectiveness.


    Milotic @ Wacan Berry
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    EVs: HP 100/ Attack 10/ Def 100/ Sp.atck 100/ Sp.def 100/ Speed 100
    Nature: Timid
    Icy Wind
    Hydro Pump
    Protect
    Hidden Power (Grass)

    Milotic is a defense buff, but is also fast enough to keep pace with pokemon like Cynthia's Garchomp. Her job is to deal as much damage as possible with her STAB moves, and to use Icy Wind to slow opponents and help Lucario outspeed them.


    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: HP 112/ Attack 131/ Def 58/ Sp.atck 64/ Sp.def 20/ Speed 125
    Nature: Sassy
    Close Combat
    Extremespeed
    Protect
    Psychic

    He is practically saved by Milotic. She gives him the opportunity to CC enemies before they can do anything to him and LO gives it that boost to go the extra mile.


    Serperior @ Light Clay
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: HP 43/ Attack 214/ Def 36/ Sp.atck 50/ Sp.def 25/ Speed 142
    Nature: Lonely
    Leaf Blade
    Protect
    Light Screen
    Reflect

    Her job now is to provide support for the team by decreasing damage intake while having the same output. The Light Clay provides her better support when putting up the dual screens.


    Spiritomb @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: HP 10/ Attack 100/ Def 50/ Sp.atck 100/ Sp.def 50/ Speed 200
    Nature: Mild
    Protect
    Will-o-Wisp
    Icy Wind
    Shadow Ball

    Spiritomb is now the backup support for any Psychic type enemies that feel like ruining my day. Will-o-Wisp does decent damage over time and has a wide range of pokemon it can affect unlike Toxic, and Icy Wind is also there to slow down the enemy so they can be cut down to size after being outsped.


    Shuckle @ TBD
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: HP 252/ Def 4/ Sp.def 252
    Nature: Impish
    Power Trick
    Protect
    Rock Slide
    Bug Bite

    Shulea is my answer to Trick Roomers. Her speed is as good as it can be, meaning that she's going to be one of the first things going when TR happens, her defenses keep her alive until it happens, and then Power Trick comes in to provide that switcheroo extreme backup. The item is currently to be decided, but I plan to find something to compliment her well.

    Battles & Flaws
    Wins: 0
    Losses: 2

    Serperior was apparently magically slower than a Metagross and Drapion, which doesn't seem right due to it's inherent speed, even when scaled down to 50. And Lucario was somehow faster than what it should have been when scaled down. Dragonite, Milotic, Spiritomb, and Rhyperior seemed to work just as what was expected of them. The team tested against was Lucario/Clefable/Drapion (Sniper)/Cacturn (Water Absorb)/Flygon/Metagross. Though I don't know whether this could count as not one-sided due to what the person said. Will currently do some research to figure things out and would also like some professional feedback as well.

    So please rate my team. I know it could have been wayyyy better, but this is all I had that was useful and that I could immediately train as I plan to enter VGC Regionals and the current league. Anyways, thanks for your time.

    -Edit- #3 Major minute change here. I am now swapping Rial for Shulea the Shuckle so that I have better performance and a better answer to Trick Room users.
    Last edited by Kanethedragon; 20th January 2013 at 3:02 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Never run Outrage on a Specs set for Dragonite considering its physical and not special.

    Change Lucario's nature to Adamant or Jolly, Sassy is a terrible nature for something that needs its speed.

    Run Duel Screens over a Choice Band set, considering it isn't a really good choice for the snake.

  3. #3
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    I'm not an expert on VGC but your team needs TONS of work all over the place. First off all the EVs make no sense at all. Newer battlers tend to think balancing out EVs like 100/100/100/100/100 is a good idea but it's actualy one of the worst things you could do. For starters, all EVs should be divisible by 4 as 4 EVs = 1 point.

    Second of all, the movesets are no good at all. Fly on Dragonite is never a good idea, heck fly on any Pokemon is a bad idea. You have some moves that don't work in competitive well, let alone VGC and some coverage options that are just bad like Poison Jab on Rhyperior, Fly, etc. Moves like Surf hit all Pokemon on the field including your partner so that's never a good idea unless you specifically pair it with something like Gastrodon or whatever.

    Next, the items are pretty suspect. Plates are meh, in VGC I think you'd rather use Gems for the extra power. Focus Sash in VGC on something that frail is just not going to work as you can just have the opponent pile you're Luke and it's dead with Sash being a waste.


    All-around this team needs help in every department except maybe the Pokemon themselves. I'm not going to try and basically make a team for you so I recommend you head over to Smogon and check out their movesets, etc. to get a better understanding of battling in general.

  4. #4
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    ... you have a lot to learn, my friend.

    If you don't feel like researching over at Smogon or are more of a hands on learning I suggest putting that exact team in over at Pokemon Showdown and seeing how it plays. Generally you want to test your team's effectiveness before actually posting it here because you'll be able to spot some of the obvious flaws immediately. RMT is more for more completed teams. This one needs a lot of work.

    Generally, your team is too slow to be effective in Doubles. That's far from the only problem but the most obvious problem. Your Team also doesn't abuse the main gimmick of Doubles which is support from your partner Pokemon.

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    Thanks for all the, well, criticism. As for what needs to be changed, yeah, I'm a newcomer. The team itself thoug when I used it earlier on today, a couple things seem out of place. First of all, my Lucario is surprisingly faster than pokemon that outspeeded my Serperior, and vice versa, with Serperior being on the butting end of the stick, even being outrun by a freaking METAGROSS! And no TR was used whatsoever. And the count was 2 losses 0 wins, with my opponent only having two pokemon left each time, mid-low health. Though then again, the guy I fought said he used AR, but said he did nothing with vitamins or anything else, I don't know how much to believe. As for the EV spread, I can agree with it being bad, as I didn't how it adds up with stat increases. I plan to see what alternatives there are and will update this accordingly.
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    Play on Pokemon Showdown. It'll help gauge your team which you'll truly find out what's wrong with them.

  7. #7
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    For doubles, you generally want to play on the SkarmBliss server on Pokemon Online, or if you do not want to download anythin, go with the NuggetBridge server of Pokemon Showdown. But, to be honest, if you plan on playing at the VGCs in a week, you should really build a team together NOW rather than testing a bunch of guys and then breeding/ev training everything on Saturday. But, if you still have time, go ahead and practice up on Online battle simulators. It will give you a much better feel for the metagame.

    As of a quick note, if you are a beginner, stick with 252/252/4 EV spreads. Max out the 2 stats that will benefit the Pokemon the most as well as give it a nature that won't end up crippling them in the end.

    If you need some more help thinking about the natures and movesets, I'll be happy to help you out.


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    Again, thanks for the criticism. I have changed up the movesets and items a little to try and compensate what I'm lacking besides EVs. So be sure to check it out, and I will be testing on Showdown! So far the overall plan for my team in itself is kinda final (don't have time to correct things) so I'm going to pull something out of what little there is, I'm pretty sure some more tweaking will be some good medicine.
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  9. #9
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    EVs are probably 1 of the most important things in competitive battling along with move pools and sets which puts things like Entei down in lower tiers with its pitiful physical move pool even though it's stats are UU-level. Again, don't use moves like Hyper Beam, Rock Wrecker, Giga Impact and their equivalents as it allows the opponent to set up and it's GG from there.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanethedragon View Post
    Introduction:
    Hey there. I'm Kane and this is my first RMT team I put together for doubles. Now I'll try to keep as much detail as I can think of, but know that this team isn't one bit perfect and probably has many holes in it that need to be filled.

    Team Preview



    Now the order is not set and is subject to change. I built this team to cover the most of what they can and do damage, but the EVs I normally tended to spread out (though Dragonite-Serperior weren't EV trained properly). Anyways here they are.


    Dragonite @Choice Band
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: HP 122/ Attack 51/ Def 74/ Sp.atck 14/ Speed 249
    Nature: Jolly
    Aerial Ace
    Thunder Punch
    Outrage
    Fire Punch

    Dragonite is the extreme powerhouse of the bunch. She was born to be fast and hit hard, sadly I didn't control her EV spread, so it's kinda eh. I Banded her so that she can do a ton of damage both physically and STABS. So far the best route I see her being complimented with is my Lucario.


    Milotic @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    EVs: HP 100/ Attack 10/ Def 100/ Sp.atck 100/ Sp.def 100/ Speed 100
    Nature: Timid
    Ice Beam
    Hydro Pump
    Surf
    Attract

    Milotic is a defense buff, but is also fast enough to keep pace with pokemon like Cynthia's Garchomp. Her job is to deal as much damage as possible with her STAB moves, and Attract is for extra measure against Electric Types that have a gender, but can be used on any unsuspecting males should I be having some problems. She can be complimented by Serperior, but is okay no matter what partner she has or if she is going solo.


    Lucario @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: HP 112/ Attack 131/ Def 58/ Sp.atck 64/ Sp.def 20/ Speed 125
    Nature: Sassy
    Ice Punch
    Aura Sphere
    Rock Slide
    Psychic

    After testing and seeing that his speed is apparently faster than what I believe it to be for speed priority (WTH is going stats?!) I gave him the expert belt after noticing how he super effective damages pokemon, but only gets them near death, rather than at it. Thus the EB should help him.


    Serperior @ Quick Claw
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: HP 43/ Attack 214/ Def 36/ Sp.atck 50/ Sp.def 25/ Speed 142
    Nature: Lonely
    Leaf Blade
    Dragon Tail
    Aqua Tail
    Synthesis

    Due to her apparent fall down in speed priority when playing, I gave her a QC to help, and didn't go with Scarfing her due to already having two choiced pokemon on the team.


    Spiritomb @King's Rock
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: HP 10/ Attack 100/ Def 50/ Sp.atck 100/ Sp.def 50/ Speed 200
    Nature: Mild
    Dark Pulse
    Curse
    Hypnosis
    Shadow Ball

    This guy here, I tried to increase his Speed in the hopes that he can be faster than some other pokemon, but I don't think it helped much after I saw the final result. Still he's pretty useful, having Hypnosis to put pokemon to sleep and then follow up with a Curse that will make sure that pokemon goes down one way or another. I included him as a counter to Psychic types that could potentially pop up, and thanks to their few weaknesses, he can also deal some damage with his STABs and take little in return.


    Rhyperior @ Scope Lens
    Ability: Lightningrod
    EVs: HP 50/ Attack 50/ Def 50/ Sp.atck 102/ Sp.def 108/ Speed 150
    Nature: Rash
    Substitute
    Stealth Rock
    Drill Run
    Rock Wrecker

    Rial the Rhyperior was made to do damage, and chosen as a final extra. Poison Jab is there for the sake of type coverage, and the other attack moves were chosen to deal massive damage and to deal with non-levitating Electric types for the sake of a last stand and being a different type from the rest. Stealth Rock is also one of kickers, as her defense is also pretty good and I do believe that I should at least have something that can guarantee some damage and help the others with having the chance to quickly OHKO most of any pokemon that dared come out of it's pokeball.

    Battles & Flaws
    Wins: 0
    Losses: 2

    Serperior was apparently magically slower than a Metagross and Drapion, which doesn't seem right due to it's inherent speed, even when scaled down to 50. And Lucario was somehow faster than what it should have been when scaled down. Dragonite, Milotic, Spiritomb, and Rhyperior seemed to work just as what was expected of them. The team tested against was Lucario/Clefable/Drapion (Sniper)/Cacturn (Water Absorb)/Flygon/Metagross. Though I don't know whether this could count as not one-sided due to what the person said. Will currently do some research to figure things out and would also like some professional feedback as well.

    So please rate my team. I know it could have been wayyyy better, but this is all I had that was useful and that I could immediately train as I plan to enter VGC Regionals and the current league. Anyways, thanks for your time.

    Okay, well... The first thing I'm noticing are the EVs. I get the feeling you took a bunch of non-EV trained Pokemon and calculated their EVs. Sorry, but that doesn't work. Generally you want 252/252/4 spreads unless you have a reason to do otherwise, I.E. to outspeed a specific threat or survive a specific attack.

    The next thing I noticed is that you're using everything wrong. There's literally no reason to use Specs Milotic when Specs Politoed or nearly any other Water Specs user hits way harder than it. Politoed has the unique quality of bringing permanent Rain to your team. In fact, to look at it, I'd recommend SpecsToed as a start.


    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Modest - Drizzle
    252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def
    -Hydro Pump
    -Focus Blast
    -Ice Beam
    -Hidden Power (Grass)

    SpecsToed's Hydro Pump in the Rain is probably one of the hardest things ever to switch in to. Some of the bulkiest things in the tier are 2HKO'd by it easily. Focus Blast lets you win weather wars with Tyranitar, nailing non-Chople TTar for an OHKO even if Sand goes down instead of Rain. Ice Beam is mostly a filler but it hits things like Dragonite hard. Hidden Power (Grass) is almost solely for Gastrodon.


    Now... Dragonite should be running Multiscale, Jolly, and 252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HP. Extremespeed over Aerial Ace, nothing not named Scyther should ever use Aerial Ace. I'd say Earthquake over Thunder Fang too. Oh, and if you do run DrizzleToed, I'd replace Fire Fang with Waterfall to abuse the Rain effectively.

    Luke's Special sets are pretty lackluster, try Dual Priority Lucario.


    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Adamant - Justified
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    -Sword's Dance
    -Extremespeed
    -Bullet Punch
    -Close Combat

    Sword's Dance instantly skyrockets your Attack to nearly unmatched levels. After that Extremespeed + Bullet Punch abuses priority pretty well, with Close Combat to hammer Steels that resist the combo.

    I don't think Serperior should ever even be touched until Contrary Serperior is released. Even then I only see potential for Scarfed Leaf Storm spam. If you want a Grass type I'd definitely say your team could benefit from a FerroCent core, starting with Ferrothorn.


    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Relaxed - Iron Barbs
    252 HP, 168 Sp. Def, 88 Defence
    -Power Whip
    -Thunder Wave
    -Leech Seed
    -Spikes

    Typical Support/Wall Ferrothorn. Thunder Wave slows down fast threats, which your team would love because it's mostly pretty slow. Leech Seed + Iron Barbs whittles away at your opponents health while simultaneously healing you. Spikes gives you some extra hazards, and Power Whip is when you need to hurt something.

    Spiritomb is meh. No recovery and only decent stats, with typing that gives him almost no resistances makes him a pretty poor defensive pivot. Jellicent would keep similar synergy, abuse the Rain, and complete the FerroCent core, which is like the 5th generation's version of SkarmBliss.


    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    252 HP, 252 Defence, 4 Sp. Def
    -Toxic
    -Scald
    -Recover
    -Substitute

    Pretty standard physically defensive Jellicent. Toxic cripples opposing defensive Pokemon while Scald keeps pressure on physical attackers. Recover keeps Jellicent around for a while and Substitute really just blocks out attempts to Toxic it.

    I'm not a fan of Rhyperior, but if one must use Rhyperior, it should really be a Double Dancer... However, Rhyperior hates the Rain, so I'd look into other options. Tornadus-T, Keldeo, and Starmie immediately come to mind.

    Hope I helped a bit.


    EDIT: I just read VGC, forget everything I said. VGC is broken.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 14th January 2013 at 5:16 PM.


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  11. #11
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    I guess you are kinda getting a better idea of how moves/items can work out. But, in doubles keep in mind: Hazards don't do too much. It is actually a waste of time to set them up, and you are better off hitting the opponent hard on a switch rather than weakening them with SR/Spikes. Also, in the time it takes to set those up, you could have just sacrificed one of your pokemon giving your opponent a 4-3 lead.

    Just out of curiosity, are you attending any VGC even this Sunday?


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreyas View Post
    I guess you are kinda getting a better idea of how moves/items can work out. But, in doubles keep in mind: Hazards don't do too much. It is actually a waste of time to set them up, and you are better off hitting the opponent hard on a switch rather than weakening them with SR/Spikes. Also, in the time it takes to set those up, you could have just sacrificed one of your pokemon giving your opponent a 4-3 lead.

    Just out of curiosity, are you attending any VGC even this Sunday?
    Yeah, I plan to attend the FL Regionals. And now that I think about it, SR hasn't really been working too much for me, might try to change that around for like a Thunder Fang or something, but Substitute has been helping me as I battle, not much, but it has.
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  13. #13
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    Ok, since you are going to regionals this week, I highly doubt you'll have time to change anything outside of moves and items, unless you wouldn't mind trading.

    Anyway, here's what I suggest:

    Dragonite @ Yache Berry
    - Dragon Claw
    - Protect
    - Thunder Wave
    - Fire Punch
    Ok, so I designed the move set so you can have speed control in your team since almost all of them lack the required speed EVs to outspeed some really annoying threats. Protect is really nice in double as it can save that pokemon from a fatal hit when he is useful later in battle (note: almost all Pokemon in your team will run protect after I finish editing it a bit). The moveset lets you hit almost all the Pokemon in VGCs for normal effective damage.

    Milotic @ Wacaan Berry
    - Icy Wind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Protect
    - Hidden Power (Grass)
    Once again, Icy Wind will get you some more speed control since it will allow you to hit both the opponents. Ice Beam may seem really useful for dragons, but after you slow them down, any strong normal effective move can kill them. Hydro Pump will hit harder than Surf, and will not damage your partner.

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    - Protect
    - Close Combat
    - Extremespeed
    - Psychic
    Ok, if your opponent carries a Hitmontop, or any fighting type fake out user, you should lead with Lucario. He can Psychic to deal as much damage as possible to hitmontop, and is immune to the fake out as well. Life Orb to hit hard both specially and physically. CC will hit almost anything for some good damage with Life Orb

    Serperior @ Light Clay
    - Protect
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Leaf Blade
    Ok, you could use quite a bit of defensive support as well. Some of your natures lower your defenses, so being able to live a few other moves should be helpful. I went with Dual Screen since you really do not need Dragon and Aqua Tail thanks to Milotic and Dragonite.

    Spiritomb @ Sitrus Berry/Leftovers
    - Icy Wind
    - Protect
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
    Ok, so for Spiritomb, I gave him more speed control, again. This is probably the only guy on your team who can take a Cresselia, which is mainly why I gave him Toxic/Wow to help him out. Will-o-wisp can help you against some physical threats out there, and toxic will help against bulky waters like gastrodon/Suicune keeping the recover / Calm Minding to a minimum.

    Rhyperior @ Focus Sash
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Protect
    - Substitute(?)
    Ok, as for Rhyperior keep in mind that bringing him out in battle is extremely difficult, and will probably die before he can do anything, which is why I gave him the Focus Sash. Rock Slide/ EQ gets good coverage, so you really don't need a 3rd attacking move unless you want to hit Scizors in which case you should run Fire Punch/Fire Fang

    So, I believe this team should get you better results. Definitely test it, and you can PM me or VM me to tell me what works and what didn't, so I could help you out with some last minute tweaking before the actual event.


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