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Thread: land/eels

  1. #1
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    Default land/eels

    Made from various fine furnished goods and so on, I try to do this so it's not so easy to preview the decklist, hehehe. Anyways this was made as a situational type deck, It's pretty fast and pretty decent at times, It does need an actual heal option but it works fine as is but it could run faster.

    3 landorus EX
    3 buffolant (bouffer)
    2 keldeo EX
    1 darkrai EX
    1 kyurem EX
    1 terrakion NV\
    1 cobalion NV
    2 sableye

    4 DCE
    4 prism energy
    4 WLFM blend energy
    3 water energy
    2 fighting energy

    4 N
    4 cheren
    1 juniper
    3 RR
    3 energy switch
    1 battle city
    3 catcher
    3 switch
    1 super rod
    4 ultra ball
    3 tool scrapper

    Also an updated EELS deck list

    2 rayquaza EX
    2 zekrom
    2 mewtwo EX
    4-4 dynamotor
    1 shaymin BC

    4 fire
    8 electric

    4 cheren
    2 N
    3 juniper
    2 RR
    3 max potion
    4 switch
    4 catcher
    3 tool scrapper
    2 level ball
    2 ultra ball
    1 computer search
    2 SSU
    2 super rod

    before was fast and powerful enough but to many resources wasted for nothing.
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    I hate to not comment on the whole thing but why Shaymin BC over emolga? Qwaa


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  3. #3
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    Well for starters they both do the same thing, but shaymin was put in as a make it or break it card kind of like a spare discard card for ultra ball, I never really rely on setup cards they never work out well in deck lists for me and or go very far in general because I don't really care for them, so if it was a card I could use 1/10 times I test it (which happened) I could have a decent setup or I could discard it for a decent setup, bring it back with super rod and use it again continuously without wasting fire energy in the process, and then I found out, that's a bit to redundant and scratched that idea soon afterwards. That and I don't have emolga, I think, probably do but never cared to pay attention.
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    Your Lando deck seems a little scattered to me, but I haven't seen it in action so I can't say anything more.

    As for your Eels deck, not bad. Personally, I would add in Skyarrow Bridges to give Rayquaza and Shaymin free-treat and to lighten Zekrom and Mewtwo a bit. And maybe go to 3-3 or 4-3 for the Eel line, because even with two set up, you're pretty good.
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    The thing is, the landorus deck played more solid then the ray eels deck, I had to re-construct it about 5 times afterwards because it didn't work properly. The landorus deck made quite alot of good reviews on various forums (other then the fact of people trying to get rid of my buffolant and basic energy for sklya and computer search, which made sense).

    I don't go anything less then 4-4 for one reason, consistency, because of this alot of format players from my league catcher my eels all the time and ohko them with darkrai (then I ohko darkrai), they know to actually make a good rayeels decklist you need a solid 3-4 eels benched to consistently make that 180 per turn (but I'm a d-bag and went to 3 super rod because of that), without that 3 eel line setup you're ohko rate goes down to about 1-3 turns. And if you're going to mention skyarrow, not the best suggestion right now with plasma storm coming out, alot of people in my area are going to be building decklists with these numbers in mind 4 hypnotoxin beam, 4 virbank, so you might as well go with what alot of high level players are saying, play keldeo, bah I got enough energy to retreat 5 times per turn and make 3 ohko's on EXs.

    Edit: why would I want free retreat when I only want the energy on rayquaza?
    Last edited by ven?; 23rd January 2013 at 5:10 PM.
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    Like I said, I never seen it in action and have a small idea of what you can do with the Lando deck.

    You got a point there, you want to set up an Eel right after on is KO'd so 4-4 is alright. As for the free-treat Quaza, you can just cycle between the two each turn without getting rid of a fire or electric. And in general, I like free-treat, kinda like a little safety blanket.
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    4 virbank? wow, that sounds pretty ridiculous. your area sounds silly. Qwaa


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    My area is made up of hey trainer and six prizes underground people, it's so annoying, so when plasma storm comes out, I swear to god I'll see darkrai, mewtwo and lando deck lists with 4 virbank, 2-3 hypnotoxic with 4 sableye and 3 dark claw.

    I'd rather use my retreat cost to increase rayquaza's attack every turn by discarding an electric if I can help it, If not use switch and reduce the amount of cards in my deck to increase the amount of ultra ball and electric energy combos.
    Last edited by ven?; 24th January 2013 at 6:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    I'd rather use my retreat cost to increase rayquaza's attack every turn by discarding an electric if I can help it, If not use switch and reduce the amount of cards in my deck to increase the amount of ultra ball and electric energy combos.
    Dragon burst discards all the fire or electric energy attached to Rayquaza, so you wouldn't have any electric energy left to discard to power up dragon burst. With free-treat you can save that 1 or 2 fire energies attached to Rayquaza, the manual attachment and switch it with the second Rayquaza thats ready to attack.
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    I have a great answer to this, dynamotor. If you discard fire energy it happens, but you run 2+ super rod you avoid this problem entirely. I won't lie there has been games where Ive discarded 3 fire the turn before, super rod, juniper or N then 180 all on the same turn with the same fire energy (I have 5 so it's not that big of a deal, if you had 4 then that's a problem). But to be honest why would I want to keep the energy on rayquaza if another rayquaza on my bench has a faster option to attack? Doesn't make any sense to put in skyarrow now does it. Personally I look at retreat the same as I look at juniper or ultraball, another option to get a faster ohko rate, if you reduce the amount of what you can get rid of in a deck that lives off of 4 cards with the basis of discarding, rayquaza, ultraball, juniper and dynamotor then whats the point in putting in a a card that is supposed to stay, there's no point, you have to be willing to discard any portion of you're deck to win with rayquaza, hence why skyarrow just doesn't make sense in rayquaza, keldeo makes better sense then skyarrow and I still don't like it. Also most times if you ohko with rayquaza you take about 90+ dmg the turn after you ohko, so even if you retreat with skyarrow you're still discarding the energy with max potion.
    Last edited by ven?; 25th January 2013 at 3:33 AM.
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    Ok the 5/8 ratio is fine. But you're not getting what I'm saying, yes the dynamotor solves you the discard problem. But that's the point of dynamotor in the deck; to get to get the electric flowing. Yes, you can attack using your fire energy, but honestly with dynamotor that should only be used as a last resort. I also understand the ultra ball, super rod, juniper combo, but it could put in a tight spot if the game runs a little long.. By running Skyarrow and gaining free-treat, you don't have to discard any energy at all to switch. Also having a second Rayquaza is a little more efficient.

    Here's a little "turn by turn" list of how it should work after setting up, skyarrow, 2 Rayquqzas, and 2-3 Eels (the whole shabang.)
    Turn "1": Rayquaza #1 uses dragon burst and discards 3 electric energies.
    -opponents turn-
    Turn "2": Use dynamotor to stock up the benched Rayquaza (Rayquaza #2), maybe manually attach another electric energy. Then use free-treat to switch Rayquaza #1 with Rayquaza #2. If you haven't manually attach any energies at this point you can attach it to Rayquaza #1 that was just benched for the next turn. Then you attach with Rayquaza #2, again discarding electric energies.
    -opponents turn-
    Turn "3": Using dynamotor again, stock up the Rayquaza (#1) on the bench, then free-treat out, switching the Rayquazas and dealing more damage.

    And then you proceed to repeat the process until either you or opponent wins. I get the ultra ball, super rod, juniper combo, but you run the risk of wearing your deck a little thin. Which puts you in a tight spot if the game runs a little long.

    TL;DR - Here's a visual aide, you don't have to watch the whole thing, just the first 5 minutes at the most.
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  12. #12
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    delete

    I should have said this instead. Alot of player's who notice people who play sky arrow catcher dynamotor so they can't retreat as commonly (when deck editing you might as well get rid of 2 switch and another card to run 3 sky arrow and 2 switch), use the time necessary and create an anti-ko rate higher then you're original ko rate. So lets say by turn 2 you have a rayquaza active with with about 2 energy on it, the turn before they would have used the opportunity to use catcher and ohko you're tynamo, then the next turn afterwards you would be inclined to go to 3 energy maybe 3 for and ohko, even if you're successful then the next turn they take advantage by catchering up the benched dynamotor, the chances of finding one of the 2 switch is very slim, so you're likely to have an active dynamotor for about 1-2 turns, this then takes away from the success rate of setting up rayquaza with ease, if you run 4 switch, you assume they will ctahcer up dynamotor thinking that it will stall you a turn, you're running 4 switch you run rayquaza so you ohko whatever is in front of you, this has now lowered the 1-2 turns down to 0. Because of skyarrow people play keldeo, it just makes sense as it gives an additional switch option which also give s a tank which can deal small dmg which may mean alot next turn.
    Last edited by ven?; 25th January 2013 at 8:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKMN Trainer Rex View Post
    Here's a little "turn by turn" list of how it should work after setting up, skyarrow, 2 Rayquqzas, and 2-3 Eels (the whole shabang.)
    No, no, no. You're still misunderstanding what I'm saying. The turn "123456" stuff is AFTER (I even said it in my last post and quoted and bolded it as proof) everything is set up. Meaning you did you whole routine that you just listed on the REAL turn 1 and subsequent turns to get the Rays up, the Eels up, energies placed where ever you need. Everything you need to attack is ready, and in my suggestion, Skyarrow Bridge for quick switch outs. That's where my turn 12345 scenario kicks in.

    You still with me? Okay here is the point I'm trying to make is.

    Turn A) Your active Rayquaza #1 (who has already all the electric energy needed to OHKO anything) attacks and deals 180, and then all the energies are discarded.

    -opponents turn-

    Turn B) On your following turn the second Rayquaza on the bench is loaded up with 2-4 energies from dynamotoring. AND THEN, you free-treat to the benched Rayquaza the active Rayquaza (who has only the fire energy on it) for the benched Rayquaza (who now has the energy from the dynamotor) making it the new active pokemon, so it can attack and do between 120-240 damage.

    -opponents turn-

    Turn C) Repeat what you did on the previous turn. Load up Rayquaza on the bench with electric energy, retreat the active Rayquaza that doesn't have a retreat cost and who doesn't have the attacking energy to it and move it to the bench. So that Rayqaza who had all the energy placed on it that was on the bench earlier is now the active pokemon to attack.

    All you are doing is cycling between 2 Rayquaza's that attack on alternating turns.
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    No, no, no. You're still misunderstanding what I'm saying. The turn "123456" stuff is AFTER (I even said it in my last post and quoted and bolded it as proof) everything is set up. Meaning you did you whole routine that you just listed on the REAL turn 1 and subsequent turns to get the Rays up, the Eels up, energies placed where ever you need. Everything you need to attack is ready, and in my suggestion, Skyarrow Bridge for quick switch outs. That's where my turn 12345 scenario kicks in.

    You still with me? Okay here is the point I'm trying to make is.

    Turn A) Your active Rayquaza #1 (who has already all the electric energy needed to OHKO anything) attacks and deals 180, and then all the energies are discarded.

    -opponents turn-catcher's up you're dynamotor, you have no switch in hand (even after N and juniper), making next turn is invalid, and or option B eviolited landorus (you fail to ohko) then hit's rayquaza

    Turn B) On your following turn the second Rayquaza on the bench is loaded up with 2-4 energies from dynamotoring. AND THEN, you free-treat to the benched Rayquaza the active Rayquaza (who has only the fire energy on it) for the benched Rayquaza (who now has the energy from the dynamotor) making it the new active pokemon, so it can attack and do between 120-240 damage.can't do that with 3 even

    -opponents turn-(opponent catcher's up the rayquaza that was hit for 30, ohko lando style.

    Turn C) Repeat what you did on the previous turn. Load up Rayquaza on the bench with electric energy, retreat the active Rayquaza that doesn't have a retreat cost and who doesn't have the attacking energy to it and move it to the bench. So that Rayqaza who had all the energy placed on it that was on the bench earlier is now the active pokemon to attack.

    -opponents turn-then ohko active rayquaza the turn after wards

    All you are doing is cycling between 2 Rayquaza's that attack on alternating turns.
    This whole thing sounds really condescending.

    First, please read the post above you and secondly, if I still take dmg over 90 I have to max potion so whats the point in saving the re-treat cost if I have to discard the fire energy anyways, there is no point. Yes I get the fact that sky arrow gives me free retreat between turns for basic pokemon only, and in a deck where I have up wards of 3-4 active stage 1 dynamotor that in itself is a double edged sword that you're opponent most likely will use against you. That and 4 virbank, so every time you put out one of you're 3 skyarrow they put 4 virbank. another reason why I'm not big on playing sky arrow is because of this, you have 4 catcher and 4 switch, meaning you only need to run 2 switch per game to actually get a fine 3 EX ohko rate (you catcher they're bench for ones without tools and blamo), at that point being said there is really no point in keeping the fire energy anyways, 10/10 my opponents always catcher and/or attack a dynamotor I take great use of this by charging up and then using switch, even if you have the free retreat whats the point in keeping the fire energy, chances are if that rayquaza was hit the turn before they will catcher it back up again to get the ko. I could give a reason a minute all day long as to why it is pointless to play this card. If you want to thats fine but an opponent will find a way to easily shut down you're deck.

    But more overall, sky arrow doesn't give the function that the deck needs, maybe it's just my area but my dynamotor get catchered out every turn, even if they're just given a love tap of 80 and under it is never they're plan to ohko it they just want to stall me a turn that's all they're trying to do, sky arrow just doesn't cut it and then you need another option to bench you're dynamotor.
    Last edited by ven?; 25th January 2013 at 6:51 PM.
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    Ok, I get what you're saying. Yes, I read your post. What it look like to me is that you were just constantly rejecting my suggestions all together. I can honestly see the strategy that your opponent has, and its makes all the sense in the world. If you see a threat such as Squirtle-line, a Tepig-line, a Piplup-line, Ralts-line or Tynamo-line, even EXs, of course you're to catcher it up for a KO without hesitation. Thats just playing smart. The strategy I posted because I just wanted to give you a general sense, idea, template of how it works. Nothing to in-depth because there are different ways to make a deck, more ways to modify it, and just as many ways to play it. I was talking/thinking big picture, it doesn't matter if your playing against basic yellow or Mewtwo EX, thats the way the "core" cards of a standard RayEels should function. And the specific situations you bring up seem, seem just that, fairly specific. What if they dead draw? What if they have catchers? What if they don't? What if they have a Terakion to retaliate? What if they use a draw supporter? What if you do have switches? What if you catchers to stall them in-turn? What if? Its a turn based card game, everything is a what if. You can not be sure that will happen all the time. If it happens more often than it should happen, maybe you should probably do some editing to get around it. Its how you face, play around them as they come that test your skills.

    Although, I was saying, suggesting, telling you how to do this in a certain way. I was also giving a different perspective on it (sorry if I sounded more forceful and direct than I should) but you could maybe restructure, and tailor your strategy around it to how you see fit. You can run 4 skyarrows and 3 switches, even 4 switches just for the situation you mentioned or similar ones. You could run 3 Rayquaza EXs, if one is knocked out. You could also run Raikou EX for bench sniping or regular Zekroms & Rayquaza with shred to KO ability Sigilyph. Or they could be used as fodder while you set something up. You can also run a few eviolites to reduce damage. Even though eviolites reduce damage by 20, it helps. Like I said, there's many different way to build, modify and play a deck. It's up to you to do anything with my suggestions. If you do, thank you for listening. If you win without them anyway, more power to you my friend.
    Last edited by PKMN Trainer Rex; 25th January 2013 at 11:51 PM.
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    Again very condescending as If I don't know anything, makes me a. want to bash you're face through a wall in real life or b. not to reply to this. To me you're just shoving you're general play style into my face and expect me to play that way, I won't because that's how you play and that isn't how I play, why can't you not understand that and just respect that fact.

    From reading this post you have no idea how a ray/eels decklist works and or have no idea how to play it.
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    Okay. I feel the need to mediate for some reason.

    Is skyarrow necessary? No, not at all. But I do see it being helpful in a way, quite simply you can get a fluent rate damage going. In no way is it a replacement to switch though. But I certainly dont think it's useless. I get the adding electric energy to the discard thing by manual retreat, but I do think if you managed to find space for skyarrow, it's a card that works in versatilities sake. Like tool scrapper. Not every game you are gonna need to discard more energy. So skyarrow will stop the process. I would never suggest running more than like, 2. And it wouldnt be to get rid of switch. Because it could always help counter that virbank too.

    In no way is skyarrow necessity. It cannot be dropped to be depended on. Especially with catcher stall on eels. I'd always advise 4 switch in here. Just because of that. I do kind of feel as though Rex is seemingly acting as a tutor of someone who has never played rayeels. And it's ticking Ven off. Different playstyles is what I see. And I don't necessarily agree with either. Lets just all try and get along. I've had my issues with other peoples playstyles too, and eventually you just have to let it go. Sometimes you learn something from each other too. Qwaa


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    Hahaha, you're funny. I used to used to play skyarrow back when I first started testing rayquaza when dragons exalted first came out (I got lucky and got a few rayquaza so why not test it all out), I didn't like it's play style I thought it wasn't universal enough to play over switch, hence why I just don't play it, that's a personal thing as I've been trying to say the whole time.

    lol never played rayeels, that's funny.

    I do agree, but I just don't like the attitude I'm getting, and when I get attitude like that back from people I get ticked off (I'm a short fuse with a large fighting background), we should all try to get along, it is a small forum and it's our different play styles that make us interesting which makes our deck lists so unique and interdependent, like a nice mix of music. When you try to force me to play something, me and my family have something in common, we try to find a million ways to go against you just for the hell of it, it is a bad habit I will admit and one that I need to curve over time. And Swagsire I may have a brutal way of saying things but I'd rather just say it to get it off my chest so I don't feel that way when I come back to the forums later and try to communicate with that person.

    Edit: I really felt like this was going no where so that's why I said what I said, to sort of try to end it, it was getting way to out of hand on either end (self included), sorry skitty for getting carried away there.
    Last edited by ven?; 26th January 2013 at 7:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    Again very condescending as If I don't know anything, makes me a. want to bash you're face through a wall in real life or b. not to reply to this. To me you're just shoving you're general play style into my face and expect me to play that way, I won't because that's how you play and that isn't how I play, why can't you not understand that and just respect that fact.

    From reading this post you have no idea how a ray/eels decklist works and or have no idea how to play it.
    And I did point that I did of come off as an ass. I should of worded it in a completely different way to not come off as such. And for that I'm totally sorry for it, I just wanted to give some suggestions. And I felt exactly the same way. I just wanted to put my fist through your face multiple times. To me you came off as condescending, like I didn't know anything and I felt like you were shoving your play style in my face and saying my style isn't all that valid at all. Again I am very sorry, please don't let this reflect how you perceive me (kind of contradicting my first statement. >.>)

    Quote Originally Posted by Swagsire View Post
    Okay. I feel the need to mediate for some reason.

    Is skyarrow necessary? No, not at all. But I do see it being helpful in a way, quite simply you can get a fluent rate damage going. In no way is it a replacement to switch though. But I certainly dont think it's useless. I get the adding electric energy to the discard thing by manual retreat, but I do think if you managed to find space for skyarrow, it's a card that works in versatilities sake. Like tool scrapper. Not every game you are gonna need to discard more energy. So skyarrow will stop the process. I would never suggest running more than like, 2. And it wouldnt be to get rid of switch. Because it could always help counter that virbank too.

    In no way is skyarrow necessity. It cannot be dropped to be depended on. Especially with catcher stall on eels. I'd always advise 4 switch in here. Just because of that. I do kind of feel as though Rex is seemingly acting as a tutor of someone who has never played rayeels. And it's ticking Ven off. Different playstyles is what I see. And I don't necessarily agree with either. Lets just all try and get along. I've had my issues with other peoples playstyles too, and eventually you just have to let it go. Sometimes you learn something from each other too. Qwaa
    Thank you, thank you, thank you, Swags.

    You stated the points that I should of pointed out from the beginning. With my growing frustration earlier, it was hard for me to gather all the thoughts properly in my head and get them all out. Skyarrow is meant to "streamline" the process. It doesn't make switches obsolete, just takes away the pressure of using them on Rayquaza and saving them for Eels. If or when Eel stalling happens. It be used as a tool to annoy your opponent, by making go through the extra effort into play another Virbank.

    Not everyone is the same, and it's my fault for thinking like that in the first place. I started out with good intentions of helping a fellow player with what I perceived to be holes in his deck. I'm sorry that it escalated this far.

    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    Hahaha, you're funny. I used to used to play skyarrow back when I first started testing rayquaza when dragons exalted first came out (I got lucky and got a few rayquaza so why not test it all out), I didn't like it's play style I thought it wasn't universal enough to play over switch, hence why I just don't play it, that's a personal thing as I've been trying to say the whole time.
    I ran a couple variants RayEels (even a RayAmp) when I first started. It was awesome, hitting stuff for at least 120 every turn, make some of them rage quit was fun. But a combination of my short attention span and small collection (which made me see all the holes in both the deck and my play style), I dismantled it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    I do agree, but I just don't like the attitude I'm getting, and when I get attitude like that back from people I get ticked off (I'm a short fuse with a large fighting background), we should all try to get along, it is a small forum and it's our different play styles that make us interesting which makes our deck lists so unique and interdependent, like a nice mix of music. When you try to force me to play something, me and my family have something in common, we try to find a million ways to go against you just for the hell of it, it is a bad habit I will admit and one that I need to curve over time. And Swagsire I may have a brutal way of saying things but I'd rather just say it to get it off my chest so I don't feel that way when I come back to the forums later and try to communicate with that person.

    Edit: I really felt like this was going no where so that's why I said what I said, to sort of try to end it, it was getting way to out of hand on either end (self included), sorry skitty for getting carried away there.
    Haha, I know that feel. I get my temper from my dad. And if I get confronted with condescension, I'll match it or even try to go farther. I was a fat kid who play basketball for my school and I had my fair share of condescension and discrimination. But instead of letting it all out, I just bottled most it up and became just a ball (haha fat joke) of rage. . The tiniest things would set me off sometimes. And if Swags didn't step in to moderate (if said something before you edited you post ven to stop it thank you) because I would be just as stubborn and would of carried this on til no tomorrow without budging an inch. I also like your musical analogy. We all have different tastes, so lets bygones be bygones and use out different styles and collaborate on some ideas sometime.

    So again sorry to ven for me being a total d*ck, and to Swags, Skitty and any other Mod who had to see this.
    Last edited by PKMN Trainer Rex; 26th January 2013 at 1:01 PM.
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