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I think this time around, ash is going to fly solo but travel with different people along the way. like for certain periods he'll travel with... idk, tierno and shauna and then after a while, they depart and then Serena and Trevor join ash for a while and they can mix it up throughout his travels. I honestly think that would be the best way to handle all the characters, having them all be recurring traveling partners.
Originally Posted by Thrive
Originally Posted by Thrive
Doubtful. Basically any interesting idea you have when speculating about new regions invariably ends with:
- Ash showing up in a new region with Pikachu without a clue how to do anything besides battling and breathing
- He accidentally runs into the new new girl who will be the main companion
- He meets a creepy older gentleman who will follow him around and do the things Ash apparently is either not smart enough to do, or expects that someone will it for him
And that is why I'm really getting sick of Ash travelling with other companions and not doing things on his own like others stronger Trainers with no explanation for for it.
At least in One Piece, in a very touching scene, Luffy admits that he has no talent for anything else besides fighting and eating. He can't use a sword, he can't navigate, he can't cook, he can't even lie. That's why he needs his friends, because he knows that he literally can't do anything else. Not because he never tried, but because he tried and knows he can't do it, That's why the other Straw Hats mean so much for him, because they are not only his friends, but his means of survival as well. And they understand that responsibility and know that Luffy has his upmost faith in them because he is trusting them with everything he can't do. He knows that they could betray him at point and he would be none the wiser, but they respect that trust to know not to ever do it. And why does Ash's have companions?
"You destroyed my bike" Or some other bs reason.
Ash's companions really just equate to people following him around because they have nothing better to do. People like to preach about "chemistry" and other garbage like that, but deep down, it was never there from the beginning. Not in the Original Series, not in Advanced Generation, not in Diamond and Pearl and not in Best Wishes. In none of these series do you ever get a feeling that Ash NEEDS these other characters around him. They just follow him for convenience and the writers are scared that they couldn't write a well constructed show with a solo main character. So instead, they give him a group of exchangeable parts so that he doesn't have to learn on his own and they have someone to bounce his character off with. Even if said characters are just cut outs of what was previously there just given a different skin. Which is why all of Ash's friendships feel so hollow. Because every one of them is the same as someone he met before, just with a different costume.
It feels like Ash doesn't do things on his own simply because of a lack of effort on his part. I assume that because we never see him give a dedicated effort to try and learn something that doesn't have to do with battling. He doesn't try to learn how to cook, he doesn't try learning how to treat his Pokemon should they get sick or injured, he doesn't try to do anything for himself and if they do show it happening, it's usually played up for laughs and used to show how inept he is at anything other than issuing commands at his Pokemon. I say that because that seems to be the only thing he can do as he doesn't go into battle with any real strategy than "Hit them, and if that doesn't work hit them harder".
Although the world of Pokemon seems to indicate that you don't have to know how to do any of these things because as a Trainer, they are provided for you. Free treatment for your Pokemon, free food, and warm bed and and nice place to sleep. All provided in a Pokemon Center. It seems to promote these things whenever we see them so it makes a 1/3 of the group dead weight as when you have access to a Pokemon Center, why would you need someone to cook for you or learn how to survive out in the wilderness? The group isn't shown being stranded and starving enough for it to be a major concern, so why does Ash even need a character like Brock or Cilan travelling with him?
So what I'm trying to say is: If you're going to have Ash travel with companions, at least give them a reason as to why they are so integral and important to Ash and stop throwing them out the door as soon as a series ends because those characters aren't in the new games and actually differentiate them from all of Ash's other friends. Those characters tend to lose their significance due them just all bleeding into the same old eventually and at some point you don't have to even be creative anymore as all you have to do is just give them existing personalities and skills and a new skin. Make us see why Ash deems these people so important to him and why these characters feel the need to travel with him. And if you can't do that, have him travel alone and show him actually making strides towards becoming a competent Pokemon Trainer and eventually Pokemon Master.
Last edited by deathseer; 5th July 2013 at 6:25 AM.
They've obviously run out of real reasons for Ash to have characters travel with him. Nowadays characters invite themselves. Hell that's what Iris and Cilan did when he met them, they just tagged along.
Arguably Dawn did this too.
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it's always been this way. honestly, misty's and Brock's reasons were no different or any more of a reason to travel with him than iris or cilan.
which is why I'd be happy to see shuffling characters traveling with him.
Originally Posted by Thrive
I'm not saying this is a new trend, I'm saying this is how it's always been and that I'd like to see a change.
Not shuffling characters every series but keeping a stable group of characters without tossing them out because a new game is coming and we have to promote new characters.
I think I'd be happier if misty and Brock were still with ash as long as they had a purpose, but none of the characters ever had a purpose other than marketing. pretty sad. oh well, I wish pokemon got a spin-off that was more focused on being a good anime and not on marketing for the games.
Originally Posted by Thrive
Apologies for bringing this up, but since i was called i want to explain myself.
I was only expressing my own desire and speculating what i find would be good idea to try out since i understand Misty had lot of unused potential and unfinished things on which writers could expand in case they ever bring her back.
I made it even clear in my post how i don't see it happening, but at same time i don't see why should discussion be limited only to few characters like Shauna, Trevor,Serena, Brock or Cilan when there exist plenty of companions to talk and make speculation more diverse and fun in case they by some of thrown chance come in consideration for Kalos region.
Even if chance is small and negligible my speculation was what if scenario and how i would like for 6th generation cast to be.
Nothing more, nothing less.
But since it seems my post bothered people, i get message and understand how such speculation isn't welcomed here.
Which is bad strategy imo because there should be more to anime than just advertizing with choice to erase and diminish previous friends impact only damaging show continuity, history and Ash credibility as trainer since any influence and growth he experienced through others is threw aside making it like it never happened.Along with leaving them unfinished with any potential to offer more going down the drain hurting series reputation and disappointing fans.
Which isn't mot optimal way imo to maintain people loyalty and broad show popularity to wider group of people.
But i digress.
To Deathseer: Interesting, quite insightful post you wrote there and while i can see from where your coming with lot of things i don't necessarily agree how none of Ash companions didn't had believable reason behind joining him on journey. Brock joined because he wanted to pursue his own breeder career with Ash adventurous spirit invoking in him desire to set of on journey as well.
Misty while using fried bike at excuse at first showed with time to have deeper reason behind deciding to travel with Ash with purpose of achieving her water master goal and wanting to explore world in company of her friends. Who she considered as new family becoming attached to them, since they didn't downplayed or judged her.
Same applies to May, because even though she decided to follow Ash and join him to travel in company it made sense. Given how she was inexperienced rookie not being sure what she wants to do in life being in need of someone guiding her and helping in honing her unexplored potential.
Also i find how there was chemistry between Ash and traveling companions. In OS it can be clearly noticed how there existed strong bond between themselves, lot of understanding, comedy, fun when meeting new places and moral support with departure at end of Johto accenting how much Ash found his friends important to him realizing he couldn't have done everything if it wasn't for them. In fact this was only friend departure where he visibly cried.
Same applies to AG cast and partially to DP where at least with Dawn there existed strong friendship.
Thanks to his companions he learned basics, became more competent as trainer and less naive, they often saved his life or prevented him from getting into danger or fall for TR tricks. Comforted him after harsh defeats and pushed forward not to give up and try harder along with prepšaring strategies and helping him in training,.
While Pokemon isn't deep and complex anime it would be understatement imo to say how friends weren't necessary with there not existing chemistry, when in reality there was.
However i agree with most of your post because at end of the day those moments don't mean much losing significance when cast is constantly replaced like live stock with any companion, established relationship and impact he left on anime and Ash growth being discarded fading in oblivion never to be seen again. Just to continue with "add nauseum" repetitive cycle of "Ash meeting new friends, establishing basic friendship, failing short at winning league etc". Killing any remote chance of having established cast which explore on their relationship taking it forward, do build up of their stories going through new adventures and challenges, having us learn new things about them with every day etc. As well soiling ground to create plot driven story with more continuity and connections to past sagas Ash traveled through.
Personally that's why i would rather want for change to work more with those they got for 6th generation, not seeing need to constantly focus on new characters and their dreams when there exists so many unexplored directions and exciting things allowing to do build up and have them evolve.
Why we don't see writers developing better their characters? Not because they can't, but because they aren't required to.
Constant cycling promote their laziness because writers aren't forced to try harder, make fresh directions through which pokemon series could become continuity based show which gradually develops characters over long time and creates more complex dynamic since every individual they bring in anime leaves unfinished before he would even have chance for more meaningful growth . Making anime currently extremely predictable, stale and repetitive.
Shame because by creating stable, more consistent cast treating storyline entity which does follow up of what was created in past would give this anime certain appeal to most fans out there, making it to an extent more than just 30 minute long advertizing, with writers having free hands to add some of originality and their own imagination in whole thing treating it like actual story. Sometimes more, sometime less but point stands.
Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 5th July 2013 at 8:39 AM.
I just hope the anime gets a bit better. I watched most of the D/P/Pt series and I found that alright, however after watching season one of the B/W series, I didn't feel like watching any-more. But I think I'll give the X/Y anime a chance, this time around.
Anyway, I think it could very-well be Serena and Callum who will follow Ash around this time. Or maybe someone entirely different.
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I am thinking that XY series will have a large group of travelling companions thanks to the game trailer.
According to the trailer, Callum will join with Shauna, Fat guy, Short Guy, Serena making a group of five temporarily to travel the forest. So,seeing this I am expecting that XY will be focusing a lot on friendship and people helping each other in their goals moreso like how Best Wishes had the good number of rivals and participated in the Don Battle Tournaments to destroy their respective rival etc.
So, basically Ash, Serena and Cilan could be the main cast, but a fourth person like Shauna, Fat guy, short guy will always join the main cast. Note that the Kalos region is divided into three parts (iirc) and Ash is starting at the center of the region. Meaning Ash will travel each part of Kalos for one year or so, and thus travel for three years in Kalos. The first year (52 episodes), he will travel with Serena, Cilan and one of Shauna/Fat Guy/Short Guy, and once he returns back, he will part with the fourth person and go on to another journey with another fourth person.
This is an interesting possibility as a cast of four is always welcome while at the same time the Pokemon of the fourth person needn't be handled with as much care because they can show to have already developed or something like that.
Of course, right now I am assuming Cilan will stay because there wasn't any foreshadowing of him leaving (Clair in Iris's case.) So for now, I will assume Cilan will be staying as Kalos might be the hub for Sommeliers.
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Piplup returned when it was coinfirmed for the short. And because the movie promotion, Piplup merchandise that represents Dawn doesn't pop up until Septemberm when Dawn was already left, causing the Dawn's Piplup, Lucario and Virgil's Eevee merchandise to be together.
Plus we do have these little numbers to go of of...the last 2 are what i'm talking about. Don't know why people keep forgetting about these. Granted there is nothing concrete in them, and granted they are talking about Kanto, but...hints? Just...thought I would throw that out there...again...like a dweeb...
...this thread is an interesting read...I am getting joy from stalking it.
Moving away from my crazy delusions of looking into screenshots to deeply,
Has anyone really discussed the idea of if Ash is going to see a legendary in the beginning like he does in like, every season. Or do you think they'll break that norm?
Last edited by Dragoniss; 5th July 2013 at 9:38 AM.
All I'm saying is, Ash's so called "friends" aren't really integral to Ash's journey other than "Well, we can't have him travel alone, the viewers will probably find it boring". Usually we get a hastily explained reason as to why this character HAS to follow Ash and it is never brought up again after that nor is it really emphasized except Misty, although it was played up for laughs.
Seriously. Why does Ash need characters like Brock and Cilan when he can treat his Pokemon and get free food from a Pokemon Center? What purpose do May and Dawn serve other than just promoting Contests from the games? What purpose did Misty serve other than just being Ash's "cheerleader" in important battles? What purpose do they give other than not having Ash talk to himself all the time?
People like to say that she, along with Brock served as Ash's coaches. But even then, they weren't really that. Essentially they were just "We know just enough to not utter fail in battle like you do". They didn't introduce anything ground breaking and whatever help they did give Ash was common knowledge to anyone who actually bothered to learn about battling. They'd just shout something that Ash would have noticed if he actually battled with some sort of strategy in mind instead of calling for attacks and hoping they hit. Even that could slightly be attributed to Ash in the only time throughout Pokemon's tenure being an actual rookie. In that there is irrefutable proof that this is Ash's first journey and that its his first go around of the whole thing. By the time Johto came around, Brock and Misty's roles became even more obsolete than they already were as Ash showed some competence in battle. Sure they tried to make the separation emotional, but for me all I could think was "What exactly is he missing out on? What could they do that Ash absolutely need as a character and what have they done as characters themselves to where Ash would literally feel like he couldn't live with out them?" Seriously, what have Brock and Misty ever done to make Ash say, "I can't live without these two" and what has Ash done for Brock and Misty to make them say "I absolutely have to follow him, no matter what". The fact that both just easily went back to their lives before they met Ash says a lot about their friendship as if he really meant that much to them, they would have stayed and Ash REALLY absolutely needed them, they would have stayed.
And no matter how much I watch it, I can't come up with a solid answer. Misty and Brock really didn't do much to cement themselves in Ash;s life. Sure they will be remembered as Ash's first traveling companions, but like all the other characters that came after them, they were nothing more than pawns that can be exchanged at any given time and Ash would be on his way as if it never even happened. And there is one character to blame because of all of this.
Tracey was the first instance where a main character was replaced. There was no precedent set before that, so the idea of a main character, Brock being taken out and replaced was unthinkable. But low and behold they did it, and it set in motion the idea that any character, besides Ash and Pikachu are expendable. Because they removed a character and the show still was able to continue, it brought the idea that "Hey, we were able to get rid of one before, so why not keep doing it?" Which is why I think Misty was dropped as well. Not because of unpopularity or anything like that. It was simply because they could, as they still have Ash and Pikachu, their primary characters since the very first episode. The day you see Ash and Pikachu leave, is the day that the Pokemon anime is over. Because that's them saying "These two can't make us anymore money and there isn't anything we can do with them".
Had Tracey not happened, I feel like we'd still have Brock and Misty to this day because while Ash and Pikachu will always be permanent, Brock and Misty were made expendable because one was taken out and it perpetuates the idea that side characters like them can always be replaced by someone else. And had they actually developed not only Ash's friendship with them as well as their own goals and stopped being vague for the sake of extending the series to make more money, I think I would have enjoyed it. But sadly, that isn't the case.
Last edited by deathseer; 5th July 2013 at 9:44 AM.
Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 5th July 2013 at 12:05 PM.
Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
"It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer
Seven Sacred Colors, a destiny intertwined:
I believe/hope they will go strong with the XY anime. They made some mistakes in BW and I believe they realized them and will change some stuff! Especially with Ash's team and development.
Maybe I'm wrong but hope dies last(never find a mother in low with the name Houp!).
But if we get the new ingame characters as travel companions we should have nice interactions and pretty diverse characters.
My Final B2-normal mode- team:
Ultimately for me, Ash's development as a character and through the region/league, and his pokemon are what really determine the majority of how good it is. It would help to have good development on the characters with ash, but don't jean as much.
The writers needs to give a good reason if any person joins Ash's Kalos journey, this 'self-invitation for no reason' trend is getting old. I hope this time Ash gets some serious character development.
Last edited by PokemontrainerY; 5th July 2013 at 2:56 PM.
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