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Thread: Pokemon X and Y's Effect on the Anime

  1. #1951
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Jeez people, the only reason for CIlan to stay is for the fangirls to get more of his voice. Nothing else besides inference suggests otherwise.
    All they need to do then is to make Ash rival or whoever to have the same voice, then I'm sure they'll forget about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Ugh, we really are going around in circles with this.

    Brock only got stale in DP. He had a few plots in the 191 episodes, it wasn't enough to make him entertaining unfortunately as a tonne of people grew tired of him and wanted him to leave. In Johto and Hoenn, he was still entertaining and this can evidently be seen from the fact not everybody wanted him to leave at that point.

    Cilan could last another saga i can almost guarantee it considering he isn't treated how Brock was in DP.

    Anyhow, i want Cilan to stay, he might or he might not. Neither of us know.

    I'm done now, that's all i have to say.
    I find it amusing and at same time ridicule when people say how only reason why Brock wasn't sidelined as much like he was in DP was because of Max. That's absurd because May also receives less focus and had more memorable moments with Brock than Dawn really had.

    When comparing amount of focus Brock received in AG and DP excluding Max out he still prospered more in AG region. Needless to say he interacted and had more memorable moments with May than he had with Dawn actually building on friendship. Such as keeping her company when going to shopping, yelling sometimes at him when being annoyed with his obsession over girls, trying to drag him to various places like haunted house, showing interest in his meals and cooking asking him various questions etc.

    With many new fresh things being done with character such as entering contest battling May, battling with Ash to stop TR from demolishing Pewter gym, entering pokeorientering , false tournament which focused on pretense how cheer leading raises pokemon strength etc.

    New characters has no bearing on how much focus characters are going to receive, nor writers have "some twisted set standards how new companion should get all focus he can get while shafting older one as much as possible".

    Otherwise Brock would receive less focus in AG compared to Johto, but it was actually opposite doing more in Hoenn.
    If that was their intention Cilan wouldn't be treated better than Brock was from start. Likewise using one specific region like DP and how was one character handled in that saga isn't credible indication through which we can base how would other characters be treated. It depends on personality, character goal, plots writers build around him ad story in what way he will be taken and handled.

    And yes older companions can have marketing value playing important role in representing certain generation and contributing to game promotion.

    Otherwise Ash would stopped being relevant to this anime long, long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Uh, Brock was boring in Johto as well. The reason why no one cares in Kanto is because everyone thought that no one other than Ash had a reason to do something back then. Doesn't mean Cilan should suffer like Brock did.
    Personally i didn't find Brock stale in Johto at all. He had great interactions with Ash and Misty providing lot of comic scenes, humor and enjoyable dialogue.

    I can say he got some valuable growth there too, such as doing more active steps toward breeding career. Learning how to prepare new potions and medicines, exchanging knowledge with other breeders, applying his skills in resolving problems with many wild pokemon like Stantler or Sudowoodo, entering breeding competition returning Vulpix to long time friend Suzy, had his Zubat and Pineco evolve etc.

    Also if writer intention was to make Cilan suffer he wouldn't be treated better than Brock was in DP from start.

    No he was stale in Hoenn too. The only reason the group worked was because Max was a little kid with no pokemon. but if he had gotten one or if Max was older than he would be just as bad as in DP.
    Again matter of opinion, and even if Max was took out of equation Brock would still end up being treated better in Hoenn than he was in DP. Since he had more memorable interactions with May, had better promotional value due to receiving one of 3rd gen starters(Mudkip) and received more screen time and focus on his breeding career than he did in DP.

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    On a side note:
    Honestly i can't understand how would anyone want endless amount of new characters continuing to come in show, if there exists potential to do more with previous ones?

    Especially when most of them were left unfinished having potential to be done more.

    Personally i wouldn't mind Cilan continuing on new region not really being given chance to be fleshed out much and receive proper development and justice toward his connoisseur goal which longer stay could allow.
    Also his career and goal are more flexible than Brock's since he is more of trainer often using his pokemon, teaching them new techniques and entering tournaments and special events for connoisseurs making him proactive.

    With Brock part of problem behind lack of battling and entering tournaments also came from passiveness of his breeder career being mostly about raiding and taking care of pokemon not being much interested in battling limiting ways to make him more active like Cilan currently does.

    Not to mention seeing how new region is based on France makes perfect sense for him to go there fitting his flamboyant personality and fascination acting like child sometimes over various hobbies like trains, fishing, putting himself in role of detective etc. After all whole reason he decided to join Ash was because he was fascinated with his battling strategy and usage of unorthodox combinations wanting to learn more about his style so having him stay with Ash past Unova to enrich his knowledge and learn more would make sense.

    I see people saying how " omg yea new character will mean new pokemon, interesting dynamic, engaging story"etc.

    But it seems to be forgotten how older character or in this case Cilan can also bring all of this, whether its humor, great interaction , new pokemon and exciting battles. But difference is that with older friends we can see them evolve and grow as persons with interaction changing and going to different level.
    Since they actually have background, established story and friendship with other main characters allowing to do continuation taking them on new, more challenging directions .

    Something which is much more exciting, instead of going from scratch and through basics like new ones do.

    Also whether someone will end up stale or "run out of steam" has nothing to do with how long he is going to stay in show, but on amount of creativity writers are willing to put into something and with what new exciting plots they can come up to rework character remaining appealing and alluring for fans.
    Cilan has potential imo to last longer(actually every character in theory have) being enough versatile with his hobbies and ambitions to contribute to anime plot in longer run not being shallow character. Needless to say his connoisseur goal has barely been touched on offering material to make something reasonable out of it and due to popularity of his VA in Japan sorta guarantees how writers would keep same tempo they are doing now with his character in case of continuing to next region.

  3. #1953
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    Remember one thing: A past main character will never return to the main cast unless there are special circunstances that caused this return to happen.

    Misty and May had no reason to rejoin a cast except for pure nostalgia from older fans. Older fans aren't a special circunstance.

    Those special circunstances are: (We need various at once to that thing is possibly happening).
    -The new character is really unpopular compared to the other.
    -The former character was too popular when it left.
    -The older character has a pokemon that it's too popular in Japan. This is o popular that it'0s appearing when the older character isn't in the show.
    -The writers try to regain audience to a audeince that likes more the older character.
    -The show has lost audience during the saga dn they try to regain it.
    -The feature of those character has disappeared but it returned later.
    -The writers are too worried to experiment with so many new characters but they really can't keep current one because his storyline. Specially if there were a new start in a shorter series.
    -The character has left not too long time ago. OR.
    -The character left, there's a BW situation, appears the first time as it's possible promoting a false return, that characters leaves again for the remainder of the saga.
    -A pokemon that's supposed to be a mascot wasn't too popular for kids.
    In Bold, known information, in Italic and in Underlinee something that it's important but we know that doesn't reallyt depend on the anime.
    Last edited by Eievui-Nymphia; 21st February 2013 at 10:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    If Dawn somehow goes to the 6th gen region with Ash, the 3rd member (and possibly the 4th) of the cast will be a new travelling companion from the new games.
    She probably won't return though, nor any of the other older characters will return either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canada View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    I find it amusing and at same time ridicule when people say how only reason why Brock wasn't sidelined as much like he was in DP was because of Max. That's absurd because May also receives less focus and had more memorable moments with Brock than Dawn really had.

    When comparing amount of focus Brock received in AG and DP excluding Max out he still prospered more in AG region. Needless to say he interacted and had more memorable moments with May than he had with Dawn actually building on friendship. Such as keeping her company when going to shopping, yelling sometimes at him when being annoyed with his obsession over girls, trying to drag him to various places like haunted house, showing interest in his meals and cooking asking him various questions etc.

    With many new fresh things being done with character such as entering contest battling May, battling with Ash to stop TR from demolishing Pewter gym, entering pokeorientering , false tournament which focused on pretense how cheer leading raises pokemon strength etc.

    New characters has no bearing on how much focus characters are going to receive, nor writers have "some twisted set standards how new companion should get all focus he can get while shafting older one as much as possible".

    Otherwise Brock would receive less focus in AG compared to Johto, but it was actually opposite doing more in Hoenn.
    If that was their intention Cilan wouldn't be treated better than Brock was from start. Likewise using one specific region like DP and how was one character handled in that saga isn't credible indication through which we can base how would other characters be treated. It depends on personality, character goal, plots writers build around him ad story in what way he will be taken and handled.

    And yes older companions can have marketing value playing important role in representing certain generation and contributing to game promotion.

    Otherwise Ash would stopped being relevant to this anime long, long time ago.



    Personally i didn't find Brock stale in Johto at all. He had great interactions with Ash and Misty providing lot of comic scenes, humor and enjoyable dialogue.

    I can say he got some valuable growth there too, such as doing more active steps toward breeding career. Learning how to prepare new potions and medicines, exchanging knowledge with other breeders, applying his skills in resolving problems with many wild pokemon like Stantler or Sudowoodo, entering breeding competition returning Vulpix to long time friend Suzy, had his Zubat and Pineco evolve etc.

    Also if writer intention was to make Cilan suffer he wouldn't be treated better than Brock was in DP from start.



    Again matter of opinion, and even if Max was took out of equation Brock would still end up being treated better in Hoenn than he was in DP. Since he had more memorable interactions with May, had better promotional value due to receiving one of 3rd gen starters(Mudkip) and received more screen time and focus on his breeding career than he did in DP.

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    On a side note:
    Honestly i can't understand how would anyone want endless amount of new characters continuing to come in show, if there exists potential to do more with previous ones?

    Especially when most of them were left unfinished having potential to be done more.

    Personally i wouldn't mind Cilan continuing on new region not really being given chance to be fleshed out much and receive proper development and justice toward his connoisseur goal which longer stay could allow.
    Also his career and goal are more flexible than Brock's since he is more of trainer often using his pokemon, teaching them new techniques and entering tournaments and special events for connoisseurs making him proactive.

    With Brock part of problem behind lack of battling and entering tournaments also came from passiveness of his breeder career being mostly about raiding and taking care of pokemon not being much interested in battling limiting ways to make him more active like Cilan currently does.

    Not to mention seeing how new region is based on France makes perfect sense for him to go there fitting his flamboyant personality and fascination acting like child sometimes over various hobbies like trains, fishing, putting himself in role of detective etc. After all whole reason he decided to join Ash was because he was fascinated with his battling strategy and usage of unorthodox combinations wanting to learn more about his style so having him stay with Ash past Unova to enrich his knowledge and learn more would make sense.

    I see people saying how " omg yea new character will mean new pokemon, interesting dynamic, engaging story"etc.

    But it seems to be forgotten how older character or in this case Cilan can also bring all of this, whether its humor, great interaction , new pokemon and exciting battles. But difference is that with older friends we can see them evolve and grow as persons with interaction changing and going to different level.
    Since they actually have background, established story and friendship with other main characters allowing to do continuation taking them on new, more challenging directions .

    Something which is much more exciting, instead of going from scratch and through basics like new ones do.

    Also whether someone will end up stale or "run out of steam" has nothing to do with how long he is going to stay in show, but on amount of creativity writers are willing to put into something and with what new exciting plots they can come up to rework character remaining appealing and alluring for fans.
    Cilan has potential imo to last longer(actually every character in theory have) being enough versatile with his hobbies and ambitions to contribute to anime plot in longer run not being shallow character. Needless to say his connoisseur goal has barely been touched on offering material to make something reasonable out of it and due to popularity of his VA in Japan sorta guarantees how writers would keep same tempo they are doing now with his character in case of continuing to next region.
    I'm not going to address what you said about Brock because it's off topic and it's a matter of opinion and it always will be no matter what anyone says. If this was thread about Brock I would argue but no we need to stay on topic.

    I will address what you said about why some people want new characters since this does involve the new anime. Yes new characters keep the show fresh, especially if you didn't like the previous travel companions. It's like Power Rangers, who introduce new characters with each series even though they tried to keep the original cast for as long as possible and by Turbo it was a mess. New characters are more free to develop with like you said, new Pokemon, new story, new personality new everything. Old characters are limited by what has already been established during their run and you run the risk of contradicting something with a old character. Old characters are never going to get 100% full stories and they were written off in ways that established that while they are not finished they are happy where they are. None of them need to still be Ash's sidekick to advance, they can go on their own journey which should be what Chronicles is for.

    New characters are all I look forward to...that and new Pokemon. I don't care if a old character comes back, but I at least want one new character with a new story to follow that represents XY's generation. I'm all for new characters and change in Pokemon.
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  6. #1956

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Jeez people, the only reason for CIlan to stay is for the fangirls to get more of his voice. Nothing else besides inference suggests otherwise.
    Mine as well keep N than, hes even more popular than Dento evenXD
    I wonder how many fans would stay if he came back for the next series?

    I'd really like what they did with AG again, four person group would be great.
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  7. #1957
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    N isn't staying...not even a chance that will happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    N isn't staying...not even a chance that will happen.
    Yeah, I completely agree. I don't know why people are even considering the possibility at this point.

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    I don't see it either, I'm just wondering is all. I don't think Japan cares about whos the most popular though, they love replacing.
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    I would love for Tracey to come back but I know that will never happen maybe an old rival of Ash could travel in XY like Richie or Gary. Also I hope we see a trainer with a pokémon from Gen 6 talking with Ash about the new region and who know's maybe could travel with Ash acting like a guide also could have a mysterious past.

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    Err.. I guess they'll just add more Pokemon...
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    Okay, so this has probably been brought up before, but the international release of XY is really going to screw up anime pacing. In the past, the six/seven months between the Japanese and worldwide release allowed the dubbed anime to reach the same point the Japanese one was at when the new games came out and the new region was introduced. But now, the new region is going to go global at the same time. What's this going to mean for the dubbed anime? Will the english version of Episode N just not get localized?

    I haven't really watched the anime in years, but this was something that occurred to me earlier, and I figured you guys would probably have the best hypotheses on what's to come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    I will address what you said about why some people want new characters since this does involve the new anime. Yes new characters keep the show fresh, especially if you didn't like the previous travel companions. It's like Power Rangers, who introduce new characters with each series even though they tried to keep the original cast for as long as possible and by Turbo it was a mess. New characters are more free to develop with like you said, new Pokemon, new story, new personality new everything. Old characters are limited by what has already been established during their run and you run the risk of contradicting something with a old character. Old characters are never going to get 100% full stories and they were written off in ways that established that while they are not finished they are happy where they are. None of them need to still be Ash's sidekick to advance, they can go on their own journey which should be what Chronicles is for.

    New characters are all I look forward to...that and new Pokemon. I don't care if a old character comes back, but I at least want one new character with a new story to follow that represents XY's generation. I'm all for new characters and change in Pokemon.
    To be fair with older characters you can also have new pokemon, new subplots in their stories, new outfit, new things explored about their background and new way of interactions as you go deeper exploring their personality.
    Also portrayal of everyone being happy and written of in way where they can advance forward kinda fails when taken in account how some of them are positioned in way which doesn't allow to fulfill their dreams(like Misty and Max).

    Having new character going through same problems, being involved in repeated ideas taken from earlier episode isn't exactly something to write home about imo.
    Likewise i don't agree over there existing limitations in what you can do with previous companions because you can create new twists in their story and development taking them in completely new directions too.

    But because of actual established groundwork keeping someone for more than one generation also allows to see him/her developed to more significant degree gaining more depth and mystery, allows to see their backstories and personalities be explored to deeper level along with characters, their pokemon and plots which form story being taken to new directions being treated as continuation.
    Expand on their current role by giving them new interests and quirks giving to fans something they didn't knew about him until now etc.

    With new cast you can't because they aren't developed to such point to grow deeper, you can't do build up on friendship because friendship isn't even established yet, you can't have filled with continuity and throwbacks to past adventures story because new cast doesn't have any history, material to work upon behind them. Its basically going from start all over again using repetitive, overused formula of basic growth through which someone go through.

    Too much of something isn't always good thing imo, and in pokemon character replacing became so much excessive and often that it caused any previous main characters to end up erased like they never existed and destroyed that little continuity we used to have.

    Plenty anime keep same cast maintaining viewers interest having quality and more coherent based story because of this.
    Personally just like many i grew tired of constant rinse and repeat with new characters, finding pointless to grow attached to characters and invest in them when they are going to leave never to be seen again anyway.

    Im more interested in seeing characters i grew to like being developed to more significant degree, getting follow up with new, fresh things being dome about the filled with more substance . That's more appealing to me than getting another new character, getting abit of development ending halfway unfinished with lot of potential to do more being wasted, later never being seen again.

    Finally about previous companions "not needing to travel with Ash", they didn't needed to be with him in first place, none of new characters needs to. But since Ash is driving force, whoever joins his company gives viewers chance to follow development of characters on screen.
    After all isn't one of main messages and purpose in this show to have Ash and friends explore world of pokemon, build on friendship bringing humor and fun interactions, learn new things and advance their own dreams and careers?

    Im not against new characters, but im not against doing new things with characters we grew to like either. And this is where our opinions go separate way, i guess.

    So to spare each ourselves time already being likely how we won't find common language on this i see pointless to continue on. Or in other words stop beating dead horse.

    To Fer92: every older character has reason to comeback, not just Dawn. Whether its to do build up on his story being developed more and tie up loose ends. To provides more references and flashbacks to past strengthening continuity of pokemon series, adding new spice to anime in form of unpredictable, fresh twists which are necessary to maintain people interest getting anime out of rut.
    Such as Dawn cameo or Charizard return now has created.

    It also serves purpose to attract more of older fans toward this show because of huge popularity they established while helping new generations to better understand anime history and characters which influenced ASh growth sparking their interest.
    Which sets up groundwork for more profound story with stable cast and strong continuity creating brand around themselves and loyal viewers who are interested to see how will things resolve with those they grew to like and increase its reputation through positive reception and hype such things cause.

    Even more if they are present in new games again having marketing value for better and more successful promotion.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 22nd February 2013 at 8:58 AM.

  14. #1964
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    I hope the secondary characters actually do something.It was really nice when Dawn was elevated to a main character.DP was nice.As for BW...there's not much excitement.If they would add two more different competitions so that all 3 characters get to do something,then it would be awesome.

    Cilan would be perfect for contests...But I sort of wish that he won't stay in the next region.A coordinator guy would be awesome.Yeah,yeah...I know...contests are gone.But who knows?They were quite nice.

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    I think the very first thing is; Pikachu.

    Lol, doesn't Pikachu get some sort of problem in almost every new region Ash and him go to?! Yeah, of course they may carry on too or stop but its pretty funny actually. XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralninja View Post
    Okay, so this has probably been brought up before, but the international release of XY is really going to screw up anime pacing. In the past, the six/seven months between the Japanese and worldwide release allowed the dubbed anime to reach the same point the Japanese one was at when the new games came out and the new region was introduced. But now, the new region is going to go global at the same time. What's this going to mean for the dubbed anime? Will the english version of Episode N just not get localized?

    I haven't really watched the anime in years, but this was something that occurred to me earlier, and I figured you guys would probably have the best hypotheses on what's to come.
    Well, it's clear the dub isn't catching up, but the dub had a preview which had a bit if footage from TP episodes that haven't even aired yet, so I think the XY anime will just begin later in the dub then the Japanese, unless there's a break, but I can't see more then 3 weeks tops for a break.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokememes View Post
    Well, it's clear the dub isn't catching up, but the dub had a preview which had a bit if footage from TP episodes that haven't even aired yet, so I think the XY anime will just begin later in the dub then the Japanese, unless there's a break, but I can't see more then 3 weeks tops for a break.
    They could do the same thing they did with Battle Frontier one new episode everyday then a movie of the four episodes of DP (in this case XY) then a break so the dub gets behind least 2 months!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    N isn't staying...not even a chance that will happen.
    We don't know what will happen until we get there. That's like you saying that Iris will stay for the next series as well. They both have no facts just opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    We don't know what will happen until we get there. That's like you saying that Iris will stay for the next series as well. They both have no facts just opinions.
    Well, its unlikely for sure but I guess its still possible.

    Its also possible N is in the games, giving him chance to reappear since the anime follows the games like the reason for both Cynthia and Looker's appearances.

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    Nothing is set in stone but I think N has a 99% chance of not joining the main cast in XY, and frankly I hope he doesn't. I am simply not a N fan, I find him one of the most overrated characters in the history of Pokemon in general, not just anime wise, everything wise. I don't know why people think he has a chance to stay, he's far to tied down to gen 5. Sorry if I'm crapping on peoples "N for gen 6" wishes as it's your opinion and you're free to have one, I'm just trying to be a little real here. Sorry.
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    NOOO.. N has to stay for gen 6. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
    D: I beg you pokemon company. For the fans at least?
    I swear N was voted best guy in pokemon bw or something.
    (im not 100% sure but please N. stay D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funnycupcakes View Post
    NOOO.. N has to stay for gen 6. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
    D: I beg you pokemon company. For the fans at least?
    I swear N was voted best guy in pokemon bw or something.
    (im not 100% sure but please N. stay D
    No one even likes N besides 9 year old girls. He will be canned at the end of EPN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    No one even likes N besides 9 year old girls. He will be canned at the end of EPN.
    N is a good character. But he should havce just been a rival instead so that when the series is over, then people will just have to let him go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    N is a good character. But he should havce just been a rival instead so that when the series is over, then people will just have to let him go.
    Agreed. While I don't love the character, he's not a bad character. N's story in Black and White's game was really good and I'm shocked the anime didn't take advantage of such a story with N and Team Plasma. Now they introduce him and it feels to late, which is why I don't even bother to watch. N just feels like a last ditch effort to get fans to watch the anime.
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  25. #1975
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    Oct 2008
    Location
    my house
    Posts
    6,170

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    I doubt N will stay. I was all "Oh cool! N is tagging along" but I really don't think he'll stay part of the main cast. He may appear again in XY though, like how Looker appeared in Best Wishes.
    3DS Friend Code: 1306-5187-6204

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