View Poll Results: Which starter would you use?

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  • Chespin

    845 26.83%
  • Fennekin

    1,329 42.19%
  • Froakie

    849 26.95%
  • NONE, Dunsparce looks better

    127 4.03%
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Thread: Starter Speculation/Discussion Thread

  1. #17026
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    Just throwing it out there in regards to Glow Punch, it may not technically be a Punch but still it would be fine for Fenny to use it. the Muskedeers all use CC and while it's not strictly punches the animation is nothing but fists.
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  2. #17027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto24 View Post
    Just throwing it out there in regards to Glow Punch, it may not technically be a Punch but still it would be fine for Fenny to use it. the Muskedeers all use CC and while it's not strictly punches the animation is nothing but fists.
    Close Combat is not considered a punch by Iron Fist and is shown to be a fury of attacks (which include things like kicks, tail swipes and wing strikes) in general, not just punches. Also, the Muskedeer quartet highest the issue even more, they are the quadrupeds you'd believe to have punches in their repertoire and yet they also don't have it.

    As for it not being a Punch, that's not very likely, every punching move has a lone fist striking the opponent and Glow Punch is consistent with that. Also, it doesn't have the excuse of being renamed like Sucker Punch (which btw, isn't depicted like a punch either) since it's from the original Japanese.
    Last edited by Taodragon; 1st August 2013 at 2:02 AM.


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  3. #17028
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    Swampert uses four legs to get around but can stand on two,giving him access to moves like Ice Punch,Brick Break and Hammer Arm.ALL moves that had a fist or hand in their attack animation. Im holding out he stays quadruped though
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  4. #17029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    Close Combat is not considered a punch by Iron Fist and is shown to be a fury of attacks (which include things like kicks, tail swipes and wing strikes) in general, not just punches. Also, the Muskedeer quartet highest the issue even more, they are the quadrupeds you'd believe to have punches in their repertoire and yet they also don't have it.
    .
    That's why I said it's not strictly a punch but the animation suggests it is. Glow Punch might not seem so odd on some other pokemon, it just does on Fennekin coz it looks like it shouldn't punch stuff
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  5. #17030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto24 View Post
    That's why I said it's not strictly a punch but the animation suggests it is. Glow Punch might not seem so odd on some other pokemon, it just does on Fennekin coz it looks like it shouldn't punch stuff
    Yeah that's true, but that's not unusual either. The thing is so do examples like Wooper and Gastly when they have punching moves and they are also related to Quagsire and Gengar, bipeds who have arms. So yeah, Fennekin knowing a punch at a lower form doesn't necessarily mean that it won't be biped or Glow Punch is not a punch, it's just really odd that it does have it.

    Speaking of which, how do Wooper and Gastly punch? That's so bizarre. XD
    Last edited by Taodragon; 1st August 2013 at 2:12 AM.


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  6. #17031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    No, because you're missing the key fact here: All Punch moves are only used by bipeds and the only exceptions are pre/post-evolutions that lack the limbs or Metagross which can use its front legs as arms.
    And you continue to miss the key fact that besides having the word "punch" in the name, there's nothing in the move's animation or in the known userbase suggesting that it requires to user to actually throw a punch.

    Most Pokemon capable of learning Punch-flagged moves that don't have limbs (Shroomish and Gastly are usually cited as prime offenders) get them as Egg moves to ease obtaining them on their evolutions, due to not being able to obtain said moves as easily: Shroomish due to the removal of the Focus Punch TM, Gastly due to the removal of the elemental Punch tutors. This is a case of Game Freak showing a move associated with Fennekin, and the fact that it's shown in a trailer implies that it's not an Egg move, but rather part of Fennekin's level-up movepool. As of yet, there's no reason to believe that the move Glow Punch will involve any actual punching, nor is there reason to suggest that Fennekin will evolve into something capable of punching.

  7. #17032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    Well, the thing is so do examples like Wooper and Gastly when they have punching moves and they are also related to Quagsire and Gengar, bipeds who have arms.
    Also Probopass can somehow fire/ice/thunder punch.

  8. #17033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    And you continue to miss the key fact that besides having the word "punch" in the name, there's nothing in the move's animation or in the known userbase suggesting that it requires to user to actually throw a punch.

    Most Pokemon capable of learning Punch-flagged moves that don't have limbs (Shroomish and Gastly are usually cited as prime offenders) get them as Egg moves to ease obtaining them on their evolutions, due to not being able to obtain said moves as easily: Shroomish due to the removal of the Focus Punch TM, Gastly due to the removal of the elemental Punch tutors. This is a case of Game Freak showing a move associated with Fennekin, and the fact that it's shown in a trailer implies that it's not an Egg move, but rather part of Fennekin's level-up movepool. As of yet, there's no reason to believe that the move Glow Punch will involve any actual punching, nor is there reason to suggest that Fennekin will evolve into something capable of punching.
    And last I checked, every move named with "punch" are punches and it shows the typical animation of a fist hitting the opponent dead on. Really, there's also just as much (if not more) reason to believe it would be a punch because it's described and shown to be a punch.

    I already mentioned those examples, Gastly, Shroomish, and Wooper (btw, the latter two are bipeds, they stand two legs) all can learn punch moves but what's consistent between them? All three of them are related to biped Pokémon by evolution. That's the key connection here you're missing, Fennekin having a punch move even at its lower form can hint at a biped evolution because that's a precedence set before by those three. There's literally no Pokémon that's not either related to a biped or biped itself that can learn punching moves, even the debatable exception has used its front legs as arms. Right now, I don't see a good enough reason to dismiss that Fennekin could be biped because of this.
    Last edited by Taodragon; 1st August 2013 at 2:25 AM.


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  9. #17034

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky505 View Post
    Um, no there's not.

    Fire Punch
    Thunder Punch
    Ice Punch
    Mega Punch
    Shadow Punch



    Meteor Mash
    I'm sure there's more but I don't feel like looking
    \
    Oh, god, so sorry, I am an idiot sometimes. For some reason, I was only thinking mega punch.
    So, changing subject, I think that maybe glow punch is some sort of move that is special that does physical damage.
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  10. #17035
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    Can't we just wait until the English name is released? This is why I'm not debating over if it hints a bipedal evolution or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YourPermanentRecord631 View Post
    Can't we just wait until the English name is released? This is why I'm not debating over if it hints a bipedal evolution or not.
    When should we get the official artwork of Oorotto and english name of Glow Punch ? Tomorrow ?
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  12. #17037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    Aside from it showing the typical animation of a fist hitting the opponent dead on? Really, there's also just as much (if not more) reason to believe it would be a punch because it's described and shown to be a punch.
    And yet, there's no animation of Fennekin doing anything on the part of throwing the punch; it's a Glow Punch, and Fennekin is creating the glow that then punches. Fennekin itself is clearly not punching anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    I already mentioned those examples, Gastly, Shroomish and Wooper (btw, the latter two are bipeds, they stand two legs) all can learn punch moves but what's consistent between them? All three of them are related to biped Pokémon by evolution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    That's the key connection here you're missing, Fennekin having a punch move even at its lower form can hint at a biped evolution because that's a precedence set before by those three.
    And the Punch moves they learn aren't level-up moves. They're not on the list of "moves to associate this Pokemon with." They're Egg moves and tutor moves dumped into their movesets to make it easier to get the moves on their evolved forms, because they're so hard to learn. If we're seeing a trailer with Fennekin using Glow Punch, then chances are it's in its level-up movepool; it's a move Fennekin itself has good reason to use and a move associated with Fennekin, not its evolution. If Fennekin itself is using the move despite clearly not being able to punch stuff, then the move probably doesn't work like pre-existing Punch moves.



    why is it always Fennekin that starts riots with its moveset, anyway

  13. #17038
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourPermanentRecord631 View Post
    Can't we just wait until the English name is released? This is why I'm not debating over if it hints a bipedal evolution or not.
    But if we waited for actual information about it, then we wouldn't be able to argue anything we wanted about it! I agree, we should probably wait for info about Glow Punch before we get at each others' throats about it (although it might be too late for that).

  14. #17039
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    Where did these rumours of Fire/psychic,Grass/Dark and Water/Fighting come from anyhow!? Also when is CoroCoro out?
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  15. #17040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    And yet, there's no animation of Fennekin doing anything on the part of throwing the punch; it's a Glow Punch, and Fennekin is creating the glow that then punches. Fennekin itself is clearly not punching anything.
    Tbf you're right that it obviously doesn't throw a punch, but this might just be the case for Fennekin, something else might learn it and have more of 'Punching' animation. This might be easier to work out if we'd also seen Fennekin use an obvious Physical move :S Then we'd know if pokemon have 2 animations for battle, one for Physical moves and one for Special.

    Coz in this game Wooper isn't going to throw a punch when it uses Ice Punch but I'll still guess that a fist animation will still appear.
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  16. #17041
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolter1 View Post
    But if we waited for actual information about it, then we wouldn't be able to argue anything we wanted about it! I agree, we should probably wait for info about Glow Punch before we get at each others' throats about it (although it might be too late for that).
    ehh true I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smeargle1987 View Post
    Where did these rumours of Fire/psychic,Grass/Dark and Water/Fighting come from anyhow!? Also when is CoroCoro out?
    February and August 12th is the CoroCoro release.

  17. #17042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    And yet, there's no animation of Fennekin doing anything on the part of throwing the punch; it's a Glow Punch, and Fennekin is creating the glow that then punches. Fennekin itself is clearly not punching anything.
    As Ditto24 said, there's no reason to not assume that an evolution could have an animation that looks like it's punching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    And the Punch moves they learn aren't level-up moves. They're not on the list of "moves to associate this Pokemon with." They're Egg moves and tutor moves dumped into their movesets to make it easier to get the moves on their evolved forms, because they're so hard to learn. If we're seeing a trailer with Fennekin using Glow Punch, then chances are it's in its level-up movepool; it's a move Fennekin itself has good reason to use and a move associated with Fennekin, not its evolution. If Fennekin itself is using the move despite clearly not being able to punch stuff, then the move probably doesn't work like
    Ignoring that it's an assumption right now, I don't see how that makes a difference. Every single Pokémon that can Punch are bipeds or related to them, whether they learn the moves by level-up or otherwise, that doesn't change that fact. Right now, it's seem to me you're nitpicking at a minor detail ignoring what the bigger picture has. Also again, that can be resolved upon evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    why is it always Fennekin that starts riots with its moveset, anyway
    Because it's easy
    Last edited by Taodragon; 1st August 2013 at 2:35 AM.


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  18. #17043
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    Oh ok thanks Was the rumour from a trusted source/well known spoiler?
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  19. #17044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeargle1987 View Post
    Oh ok thanks Was the rumour from a trusted source/well known spoiler?
    Considering he has gotten everything right with a couple of typos, yes.

  20. #17045
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeargle1987 View Post
    Oh ok thanks Was the rumour from a trusted source/well known spoiler?
    See Pokebeach.

    Also, something can still be on four legs and be able to punch. If you can imagine a tiger pouncing and punching at the same time, it helps

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  21. #17046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    And yet, there's no animation of Fennekin doing anything on the part of throwing the punch; it's a Glow Punch, and Fennekin is creating the glow that then punches. Fennekin itself is clearly not punching anything.





    And the Punch moves they learn aren't level-up moves. They're not on the list of "moves to associate this Pokemon with." They're Egg moves and tutor moves dumped into their movesets to make it easier to get the moves on their evolved forms, because they're so hard to learn. If we're seeing a trailer with Fennekin using Glow Punch, then chances are it's in its level-up movepool; it's a move Fennekin itself has good reason to use and a move associated with Fennekin, not its evolution. If Fennekin itself is using the move despite clearly not being able to punch stuff, then the move probably doesn't work like pre-existing Punch moves.



    why is it always Fennekin that starts riots with its moveset, anyway
    He does appear to be the most popular.

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  22. #17047
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    Fingers crossed then!
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  23. #17048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    Ignoring that it's an assumption right now (a valid one I'll admit but still)
    That's kind of a huge part of the whole thing, though. It's not something you can really just ignore - there's a difference between an Egg move and a level-up move, and typically only the latter are used in trailers.

    When you think "Rattata," you probably think "Hyper Fang" before "Flame Wheel." When you think "Glalie," you probably think "Ice Beam" before "Hex." When you think "Snivy," you probably think "Leaf Tornado" before "Twister."

    Because of that, I can't see why Fennekin would get a move that involves throwing an actual punch as opposed to conjuring/casting/whatever term you want to use to create one, if the only explanation is "well it'll have to evolve into something that can actually use the punch." Why not just give the evolution Glow Punch, then, perhaps as a move upon evolution, like with Combusken and Double Kick, or Monferno with Mach Punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    I don't see how that makes a difference. Every single Pokémon that can Punch are bipeds or related to them, whether they learn the moves by level-up or otherwise, that doesn't change that fact. Right now, it's seem to me you're nitpicking at a minor detail ignoring what the bigger picture has. Also again, that can be resolved upon evolution.
    None of them learn the moves by level-up, though. All of them get the moves via tutor or Egg.

    It feels to me more like you're nitpicking the instances where some Pokemon without hands or limbs can use Punching moves due to evolving into something that can use said moves normally, and citing it to aid the idea of Fennekin evolving into a biped because of that, rather than ask yourself what other possibilities could make sense for a move called Glow Punch.

  24. #17049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    That's kind of a huge part of the whole thing, though. It's not something you can really just ignore - there's a difference between an Egg move and a level-up move, and typically only the latter are used in trailers.
    Key word being typically, there's nothing proving that it can't be an Egg move or otherwise. Really, I think they just wanted to showcase Glow Punch and Fennekin could do that, whether or not it's a level-up move doesn't negate the rest of the trend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    When you think "Rattata," you probably think "Hyper Fang" before "Flame Wheel." When you think "Glalie," you probably think "Ice Beam" before "Hex." When you think "Snivy," you probably think "Leaf Tornado" before "Twister."

    Because of that, I can't see why Fennekin would get a move that involves throwing an actual punch as opposed to conjuring/casting/whatever term you want to use to create one, if the only explanation is "well it'll have to evolve into something that can actually use the punch." Why not just give the evolution Glow Punch, then, perhaps as a move upon evolution, like with Combusken and Double Kick, or Monferno with Mach Punch?
    And forgive me, but that's letting personal bias cloud what's in front of you. Pokémon learn moves all the time that you'd think they wouldn't learn (how the hell can Ekans use Earthquake for instance?) and vice versa at that, because of that I don't see that being nothing more then a self-imposed barrier that's not supported by established instances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    None of them learn the moves by level-up, though. All of them get the moves via tutor or Egg.

    It feels to me more like you're nitpicking the instances where some Pokemon without hands or limbs can use Punching moves due to evolving into something that can use said moves normally, and citing it to aid the idea of Fennekin evolving into a biped because of that, rather than ask yourself what other possibilities could make sense for a move called Glow Punch.
    And again, what's to say it's not for Fennekin? Or that if we're playing hypotheticals, it's the first biped to have a lesser form learn its punching move?

    Honestly, I'm using instances that have already been established by previous Pokémon games, you're using observations (that can be wrong mind you) to support your claim. Really, it's seems that you're reading more into what the move means despite not knowing much about it aside from how it looks and what it's name is. We don't have a description or effect to really draw from and say accurately "this is a special case." Observations can only get us so far, established patterns and instances are much more easier to follow because those are what we've seen before and can easily see being kept in the future.
    Last edited by Taodragon; 1st August 2013 at 3:05 AM.


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  25. #17050
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    I think it makes sense considering Fennekin's ears/fluff have been shown clearly to glow. And honestly i'm leaning towards it being a fairy-type move, as we've seen geomancy and that looks very "glowy" as well.

    The only thing working against it being fairy is the rumour saying that Fire resists it. But for people to analyse the sound it makes when it hits is very sketchy imo. It's so hard to tell.

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