Starter Speculation/Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

[CrusherTheFeraligatr]

I hope the starters have signature moves. I mean, I know the Unova starters had them (Leaf Tornado, Heat Crash & Razor Shell), but they weren't really all that useful in-game, like the Hoenn starters' were (Leaf Blade, Blaze Kick & Muddy Water).

Chespin could have something like this:

Name: Needle Slam
Type: Grass
Category: Physical
PP: 10
BP: 85
Acc.: 90
Range: May affect anyone adjacent to the user.
Text: The user tucks itself into a ball, with it's spikes stood on end. It then launches a roll attack with a high critical-hit ratio. May lower target's Defense (10% chance).

For Fennekin:

Name: Aurous Flame
Type: Fire
Category: Special
PP: 15
BP: 75
Acc.: 100
Range: Affects everyone adjacent to the user, except for allies.
Text: The user unleashes a shimmering wave of golden fire upon the opposition. It also leaves embers that heal the user by a 1/16th of their max health every turn.

And, last but not least, Froakie's:

Name: Foam Shot
Type: Water
Category: Special
PP: 10
BP: 70
Acc.: 95
Range: May affect anyone adjacent to the user.
Text: The user spouts forth a powerful blast of foamy water.
May lower the target's speed (30%).


~The Head Honchkrow~

Man, I love these! I usually don't keep signature moves, but I'd use chespin's.

Burning: thanks, I thought you were being serious.

[Nyarlathotep]

I wouldn't be surprised if Fennekin turns out to be something like Fire and Ground or maybe even Fire and Psychic, or something similar. Maybe even Fire and Rock. I'm not sure if they'll opt for it to just be pure Fire type, but there's no way to be sure at this point.

The only reason I have to think Fennekin's evos might be pure Fire is because we had three dual-typed Fire-type starters in a row... A pure Fire-type starter would be refreshing, at least and the poor Typhlosion needs a buddy. Anyway, Fire/Ground seems to be the most reasonable guess, considering what we know about Fennekin's origins. Fire/Psychic is a bit stretching, the only supporting factor is the move Fennekin uses in the trailer, which may or may not mean anything. Also, considering that the other two Pokéfoxes, Ninetales and Zoroark, are based on mystical foxes [Nine-tailed Fox and Kitsune, respectively], I somehow doubt Fennekin will follow the trend... but who knows? Maybe Fennekin ends up being a Ninetales clone [and Froakie a Seismitoad look-alike].

[Poetry]

The only reason I have to think Fennekin's evos might be pure Fire is because we had three dual-typed Fire-type starters in a row... A pure Fire-type starter would be refreshing, at least... The poor Typhlosion needs a buddy. Anyway, Fire/Ground seems to be the most reasonable guess, considering what we know about Fennekin's origins. Fire/Psychic is a bit stretching, the only supporting factor is the move Fennekin uses in the trailer, which may or may not mean anything. Also, considering that the other two Pokéfoxes, Ninetales and Zoroark, are based on mystical foxes [Nine-tailed Fox and Kitsune, respectively], I somehow doubt Fennekin will follow the trend... but who knows? Maybe Fennekin ends up being a Ninetales clone [and Froakie a Seismitoad look-alike].

Yeah, the fact that Typhlosion is the only fully-evolved Fire starter that retains its single typing is a certainly depressing. But to be honest, any type combo whether it be just a single type or a strange one like Fire and Psychic is fine with me just as long as it isn't goddamn Fire and Fighting. But seeing as Fennekin is based on a fox, already we can see that not being at all likely. A fighting, bipedal pig and a quartet of fighting horses was really enough, thanks.
Well, Ninetales doesn't actually have much direct connotations of its sort of mystical and mind-power-type background aside from the moves it learns, so perhaps this is GF's chance to actually fully flesh out the idea properly. I doubt Fennekin will turn out to just be a Ninetales clone, though. its evolutions will probably be nowhere near as good looking.

[Nyarlathotep]

Yeah, the fact that Typhlosion is the only fully-evolved Fire starter that retains its single typing is a certainly depressing. But to be honest, any type combo whether it be just a single type or a strange one like Fire and Psychic is fine with me just as long as it isn't goddamn Fire and Fighting. But seeing as Fennekin is based on a fox, already we can see that not being at all likely. A fighting, bipedal pig and a quartet of fighting horses was really enough, thanks.
Well, Ninetales doesn't actually have much direct connotations of its sort of mystical and mind-power-type background aside from the moves it learns, so perhaps this is GF's chance to actually fully flesh out the idea properly. I doubt Fennekin will turn out to just be a Ninetales clone, though. its evolutions will probably be nowhere near as good looking.

Agreed, Fire/Fighting again would be depressing and honestly, the last thing I want is to see a lot of people complaining about GF's lack of creativity if that happens. And yep, Ninetales isn't type-related to the Nine-tailed fox, considering its basis it should have been a Fire/Ghost or even Fire/Psychic Pokémon, but I guess Game Freak decided to play safe back in the day and made it a pure Fire-type instead. Either way, if Fennekin ends up being a Fire/Psychic, it will be hard to not compare it to Ninetales, considering the already existing similar features.

its evolutions will probably be nowhere near as good looking.

Sure thing. GF will never make a canine/dog-like Pokémon that looks as good Ninetales.

[MidnightFennekin]

I'd like Fennekin to be a Fire/Ghost Pokemon. It's a very unique typing, and hasn't been used on a Pokemon based on a living thing yet. A very nice twist from the traditional Fire/Fighting, as it is now immune to Fighting, rather then being Dual-Type with it! Maybe with Magic Gaurd as a Hidden Ability? Damn this thing would own non-Shadow Claw Blaziken, aswell as nailing Giratina-STAB wise! Maybe a Special Sweeper/Tank? Emboar, Infernape and Blaziken are all fairly physical.

[Poetry]

Agreed, Fire/Fighting again would be depressing and honestly, the last thing I want is to see a lot of people complaining about GF's lack of creativity if that happens. And yep, Ninetales isn't type-related to the Nine-tailed fox, considering its basis it should have been a Fire/Ghost or even Fire/Psychic Pokémon, but I guess Game Freak decided to play safe back in the day and made it a pure Fire-type instead. Either way, if Fennekin ends up being a Fire/Psychic, it will be hard to not compare it to Ninetales, considering the already existing similar features.


Sure thing. GF will never make a canine/dog-like Pokémon that looks as good Ninetales.

Mmm... no matter what typing Fennekin will receive later on though, I still think Ninetales will be represented as the archetypal imagining of the Japanese Kitsune fox legend, purely based on aesthetics. Since Fennekin will certainly not evolve into something with nine tails, I think Ninetales will still retain the main image of representation of the myth, especially as you've got games like Okami which make direct references to the legend and even has a boss called Ninetails which does resemble the Pokemon, Ninetales in many respects, and not just because they both share the number of tails. Fennekin on the other hand I think will fill up a niche akin to something like Flareon but much more powerful and (hopefully) graceful. Relations to the Japanese myth will be minimal, even with the supposed second Psychic typing.

[Räven]

'Guaranteed"?

I think he was being sarcastic. But tbh, I don't believe Chespin will become Grass/Flying. I mean, half the starters can use Aerial Ace.

[Sneasel Lover]

It would be cool if Chespin turned into a flying squirrel type thing, granted we already have one, but nobody likes emolga. I know he's a chipmunk, but he could still grow wings just like charizard somehow sprouted them when it evolved.

Every ounce of reasoning in me says that Finnekin is still going to be a firefighter.

Chespin isn't a chipmunk, it's a hedgehog/porcupine with a chestnut on its head. And Charizard "sprouted" wings because it's a dragon and most dragons have wings.

[CrusherTheFeraligatr]

I'd like Fennekin to be a Fire/Ghost Pokemon. It's a very unique typing, and hasn't been used on a Pokemon based on a living thing yet. A very nice twist from the traditional Fire/Fighting, as it is now immune to Fighting, rather then being Dual-Type with it! Maybe with Magic Gaurd as a Hidden Ability? Damn this thing would own non-Shadow Claw Blaziken, aswell as nailing Giratina-STAB wise! Maybe a Special Sweeper/Tank? Emboar, Infernape and Blaziken are all fairly physical.

I thought sweepers tend to be lacking defense wise, espcecially the starter ones? Why ghost?

[Bariokie]

As always no X and Y or Gen 6 information....
Hahahahaha what the f*** was I expecting?
I mean, c'mon it is TrollFreak....

[Nyarlathotep]

Mmm... no matter what typing Fennekin will receive later on though, I still think Ninetales will be represented as the archetypal imagining of the Japanese Kitsune fox legend, purely based on aesthetics. Since Fennekin will certainly not evolve into something with nine tails, I think Ninetales will still retain the main image of representation of the myth, especially as you've got games like Okami which make direct references to the legend and even has a boss called Ninetails which does resemble the Pokemon, Ninetales in many respects, and not just because they both share the number of tails. Fennekin on the other hand I think will fill up a niche akin to something like Flareon but much more powerful and (hopefully) graceful. Relations to the Japanese myth will be minimal, even with the supposed second Psychic typing.

Yeah, you are completely right, what I mean is that depending of Fennekin's evolutions type and aesthetics, people will surely compare it to the Ninetales lines. Don't you know the Pokémon fandom? They love to compare new things to the "originals". Anyway, I agree that Fennekin may be more alike Flareon, only with a more graceful and more fox-like design and possibly not related to psychic/ghostly powers like Ninetales.

[NotChip]

I just hope they break the mold and finally be done with those reoccurring abilities of Overgrow / Torrent / Blaze. They could make the starters so much more interesting (and better competitively) by giving them something else.

Chespin (who I believe will be a bulky grass/rock type) could have Battle Armour, preventing those lucky hax critical hits that could otherwise ruin a Pokemon's walling attempt.

Fennekin (who I see being a pure fire or fire/Psychic, fire/dark special sweeper) could have Soundproof, represented by that mass amount of hair in its ears. lol

Froakie (who I keep visioning being an all round average but physical attacking, water/normal type (am I getting that just because of his colouring?) could have something like Hydration.

[The Head Honchkrow]

@NotChip: Nah, I doubt they'd get rid of those abilities, seeing as they can easily just give them different ones via DW. Besides, starter Pokemon aren't really supposed to be good competitively.

~The Head Honchkrow~

[Iniquity]

I personally don't see any of the starters being competitive /: I hate how they're usually underpowered in general, except for a select few. Although this is coming from someone who wishes Charizard was blessed with Dragon secondary, but hey, we can dream. I can kind of see Fennekin being Fire/Dark. Maybe.

[Sneasel Lover]

As always no X and Y or Gen 6 information....
Hahahahaha what the f*** was I expecting?
I mean, c'mon it is TrollFreak....

We know, you don't have to drop in everyday to tell us.

And I seriously doubt that they will ditch the classic starter Abilities, if anything they may continue with Hidden Abilities. I certainly hope so, makes things interesting.

[Aurath8]

@NotChip: Nah, I doubt they'd get rid of those abilities, seeing as they can easily just give them different ones via DW. Besides, starter Pokemon aren't really supposed to be good competitively.

~The Head Honchkrow~

Gen 4 says hi. Only Torterra was in UU instead of OU and that was mostly because of the abundance of Ice type attacks that would normally be aimed at Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite etc.
Of course, whether that was on purpose is debatable.

Anyway, I'd much prefer starters to be one of the best options for their type. I'd gladly use all three Sinnoh or Hoenn starters, but the Unova starters almost feel like a burden. Whichever one I choose, there's always something similar or better that I'd use instead, except for maybe Serperior because of its somewhat unique combo of stats.

As for the abilities just give them 2 regular abilities. Overgrow/Blaze/Torrent and an ability that actually suits them. So you could get a Froakie with Torrent or Water Absorb, for example.

[Nacreous]

I just hope they break the mold and finally be done with those reoccurring abilities of Overgrow / Torrent / Blaze. They could make the starters so much more interesting (and better competitively) by giving them something else.

Chespin (who I believe will be a bulky grass/rock type) could have Battle Armour, preventing those lucky hax critical hits that could otherwise ruin a Pokemon's walling attempt.

Fennekin (who I see being a pure fire or fire/Psychic, fire/dark special sweeper) could have Soundproof, represented by that mass amount of hair in its ears. lol

Froakie (who I keep visioning being an all round average but physical attacking, water/normal type (am I getting that just because of his colouring?) could have something like Hydration.

I hope they'd change the effects of those abilities somewhat.Like...I dunno,when a starter's HP is down to half,then its moves get the boost.Cuz,right now,they're kinda useless.

[The Head Honchkrow]

Gen 4 says hi. Only Torterra was in UU instead of OU and that was mostly because of the abundance of Ice type attacks that would normally be aimed at Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite etc.

"Besides, starter Pokemon aren't really supposed to be good competitively."

~The Head Honchkrow~

[Aurath8]

I hope they'd change the effects of those abilities somewhat.Like...I dunno,when a starter's HP is down to half,then its moves get the boost.Cuz,right now,they're kinda useless.

Maybe they could make it a gradual boost like Reversal. So at 100% HP it's x1 boost, x1.3 boost at 50% HP, x1.5 boost at 33.3% HP and at 1% HP it's something ridiculous like 250%. Just to put that in perspective 1% HP basically gives you an automatic +3 boost to your corresponding type.

"Besides, starter Pokemon aren't really supposed to be good competitively."

My grammar and reading skills be damned.

[Nacreous]

"Besides, starter Pokemon aren't really supposed to be good competitively."

~The Head Honchkrow~

Well,they should be.If they shove them down our throats so much,I reckon they should be good.But as I said before,I think the strenght of the starters in one region is directly proportional to the difficulty in that respective region.Hope I make sense.The Sinnoh and Hoenn starters were somewhat better because the regions were somewhat more challenging--Sinnoh especially.

Maybe they could make it a gradual boost like Reversal. So at 100% HP it's x1 boost, x1.3 boost at 50% HP, x1.5 boost at 33.3% HP and at 1% HP it's something ridiculous like 250%. Just to put that in perspective 1% HP basically gives you an automatic +3 boost to your corresponding type.

Yeah,it could work like this.Imagine Solar Power Charizard with something like this.

[Plus side down side]

They aren't good because they are being exactly what they are supposed to be. Starters. They are there to give players a basic understanding of type mechanics, and be strong enough to hold their own in game. If they gave everyone pseudo legendary Pokemon right at the start, there wouldn't be much of a challenge, would there?

That's not to say that the starters are bad, because they aren't. They just aren't supposed to be the strongest Pokemon in the lot, they are generally in the UU tier, which is probably one of the funner competitive tiers. Plus, that's what the dream world is for. It gives more variety and options to Pokemon that they wouldn't have otherwise.

[Nyarlathotep]

"Besides, starter Pokemon aren't really supposed to be good competitively."

~The Head Honchkrow~

Not only the starters, but every Pokémon. I don't think GF create them thinking about how good they will be in the ~competitive scene~. Tiers and the competitive stuff is all fanmade.

[CrusherTheFeraligatr]

Not only the starters, but every Pokémon. I don't think GF create them thinking about how good they will be in the ~competitive scene~. Tiers and the competitive stuff is all fanmade.

Yeah, and people take them way too seriously.

[yuoke]

Yeah, and people take them way too seriously.

That's not really a fair opinion of competitive players. So what if they take it seriously?

[CrusherTheFeraligatr]

That's not really a fair opinion of competitive players. So what if they take it seriously?

Sorry, its not the 'seriousness' of it, per se. Its how people dismiss pokemon because their in a lower tier, considering them pathetic, comapring them to pseudo/legendaries.