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Thread: Gen V's legacy on the series

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios* View Post
    Judging by the conversation, I'd say that Pokemon designs are definitely one of generation 5's biggest impacts on the franchise. It has gotten to the to the point where there are considerably more mixed opinions in the fandom about what is the accepted definition of a Pokemon. Hopefully it can be viewed as a necessary step for Gamefreak to design future Pokemon responsibly.
    Just because some people don't personally like a Pokemon design doesn't mean Game Freak weren't "responsible" nor are people on the Internet reflective of the franchise as a whole.

    If anything, despite all the complaining and whining of "running/ran out of ideas", the games and all the associated products, events, VGC, TCG, etc... were all massively successful. If anything, it probably means Game Freak should continue to not listen to fans if it results in successes such as Gen 5.
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  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomspot555 View Post
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand you just fine. All opinions are equal and why can't people just have their opinions and be left alone and all that. I'm just sick of the constant trashing of anything that is new. It happened in Gen 4 at every turn and it happened for 3 years for Gen 5 and its gonna be another 2-4 years with Gen 6.

    Silly me for trying to incite discussion in the General Pokemon Discussion forum.
    If I were to focus so much on those constant trashing and try to defend against every single negative comment from random posters who come and go onto this forum, in particular those that are mere personal opinions, I'll be sick too. Come on, it's a thread where many people post about aspects of the game which they think defines the generation, and your first post here was to rebuke someone who dislikes Garbodor? Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by randomspot555 View Post
    I'm sure it can be picked up, I'm just saying that the anecdotal evidence of Internet fandom on a fan site is reflective only of that specific site and not necessarily shared with the general fandom. If Pokemon Internet Fandom was reflective of the fandom at-large right before Gen 5's release, then Gen 5 would've been a massive failure because game freak "Ran out of ideas" and are just putting stuff out with no thought and on and on and on and the games would've tanked, but still, somehow, Game Freak and Nintendo found millions of people to play and enjoy those games.
    I'm pretty sure that when it comes to Pokemon design only, the anecdotal evidence of the Internet fandom has been pretty consistent before and after the game's release, at least for Pokemon which I think would garner more bashing than others. The game's success is a result of a winning recipe with tweaks here and there with every generation, and thanks to the large pool of new Pokemon in each generation and the fact that the average player just need around 6 Pokemon to go through the game, bad designs can be, and are usually overlooked. The only thing that may make a difference is whether the anime makes the effort to put a certain Pokemon in the spotlight and give it a nice personality/storyline, and players' personal experience with these Pokemon in-game that could change their opinion.
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 13th January 2013 at 6:01 AM.
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  3. #128
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    When you think about it, all generations have certain Pokemon that receive a disproportionate amount of attention. These tend to be starters, legendaries, competitive, and any other Pokemon that are particularly unique. Its also pretty amazing how much influence word of mouth has, compared to the days without internet and mobile devices. The Pokemon themselves are the no. 1 thing people talk about amongst each other, therefore its the no 1. tool of marketing the franchise.

    Let me give an example of how word of mouth marketing works in the context of first impressions and Pokemon design. In the gaming market especially, first impressions are a vital step in getting one hooked on a franchise. Suppose only 1% or even half a percent of "hardcore" fans felt a generation was average just because of that handful of disliked or so-called "stupid" Pokemon (as unfair as that may be). Of those, some may have friends who aren't into Pokemon, or just getting into it. If those friends don't get the impression that the newest game and the Pokemon in it are totally awesome and not just "average", they aren't likely to buy. Considering the many millions who play the game, that small percentage could be "just" a few thousand friends who would otherwise have tried the game had their friend been more excited to tell them why they should. And that's several thousands that could have been in Gamefreak's wallet. If a similar pattern continues for multiple generations, that's even more would-be fans and would-be cash lost.

    Think about the gravity of that for a moment guys. Nearly every change in "standards" of a franchise as big as Pokemon leads to a chain reaction that affects long term popularity and profit. Even a minority of people spreading a bad vibe complaining about "those" Pokemon makes a difference. That's why Gamefreak most certainly pays attention to what fans like and dislike, beneficial or hindering, acceptable or not. Pokemon is huge. Their whole way of running business, down to every last detail is huge. Its quite fascinating, really.
    Last edited by Bluelatios*; 13th January 2013 at 4:56 AM.
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  4. #129

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    Thank you for the lesson on "word of mouth marketing." You would be exceedingly, tremendously, incredibly and perhaps impossibly hard-pressed to make a supportable case that the Internet fandom Illuminati not liking a handful of creature designs has any measurable effect on the game sales or is otherwise anything to which anyone in power should pay attention.



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  5. #130
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    Gen 5 was a different story and shows the intricacy of pokemon as a whole, It's hard to say at this point if it is or not, time will tell if it holds to be a legend of the pokemon series based off of how prolific it becomes as it ends.

    Edit: the tv series and the tcg (if a Gen ends on a whole as a good thing, nobody makes fun of it, but if it does something stupid like power keepers 2 then it will get whipped underneath the rug as a failed accomplishment and we will not agree with the achievement that nintendo sees and expect something else to make up for it, hence EX cards black2 white 2 ect), point and case.
    Last edited by ven?; 13th January 2013 at 8:22 AM.
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    The depth of the story-line can be seen as one of its most important legacy. It actually got the gym leaders properly involved, it went of the usual road of collect the gym badges and beat the bad guys along the way. Really i think the series is going the right way with this because it actually gives the games more meaning than just gym badges and beating the Elite four.

    The reusable TMs are a god send, it is just a simple change but one that can be carried on and can be seen as a changing point in the series.

    The triple battles actually didn't go down well though. It just didn't seem to be that important function in the game though i suspect it will go more like double battles went and get used much more in the next gen(S)

  7. #132

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    Permanent TMs are never going away. This has a couple consequences, but the main one is that there's going to be more changes between generations with TMs since they can't be held. We're not going to have situations like Gen 4 where a good chunk of the TMs need to stay the same. I'd expect some staples like Flamethrower and Earthquake to stay, but they're going to be mixing it up as much as they did between Gen 1, 2, and 3.

    I wouldn't expect another reboot with all new pokemon for a long time. The new pokemon in BW are probably going to have the biggest influence on future generations, breaking up the annoying "classics" that annoyed everyone from Gens 1-4. Now when they need a rock pokemon, they don't always have to go to Geodude since they have Roggenrola. They don't always need Zubat since they have Woobat.

    I also think it's going to be seen as a graphics peak until Gen 7 comes out. It definitely improved on the DP pseudo-3D graphics, and I think XY is going to seem a little less polished in comparison since they're trying something new. It'll probably take them a little while to get as good with 3D as they've gotten with sprites, and people are going to complain in G6 because of it.

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    Agreed if you can only get the TM once ever then you might never wind up using one as you might not be sure if it would be a good idea as for most TMs you only have one shot.

  9. #134

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    I also think phenomena were a brilliant idea that's going to last. They're a way more interactive and fun way to get rare and semi-rare Pokemon and items, definitely beating low encounter rates and wild held items. You're wandering through an area and suddenly you see some shaky grass - you have a target now.

    It's a great way to mix up exploration and give you goals besides getting to the other end as fast as possible. And running around waiting for shaky spots to appear is way less tedious than repeatedly encountering and fleeing from pokemon to get to the one with a <5% encounter rate, or finding gems in dust clouds instead of picking them up off pokemon with probably a <5% wild held item rate. I feel like they're really underappreciated, but they've had a big influcence on how I play the game and it's completely positive. If they ever get removed, I think it'll be a big mistake.

  10. #135
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    Generation 5 was awesome and extremely advancing and progressive, but it also was too short! There really should have been a remake in there....such as the one widely banned from being discussed on serebii except in its specific place :P
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  11. #136
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    Gen V will probably go down as the most controversial generation amongst fans ever since Gen I. Just look at this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azran Flame View Post
    Gen V will probably go down as the most controversial generation amongst fans ever since Gen I. Just look at this thread.
    Not really. This thread is a very narrow look at a single topic, and even then nothing here is all that controversial. III and IV would have generated similar if not more contested discussion if such exit threads had been made for them, and given the cyclical nature of fan discussion, no doubt such threads were made.



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    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    Not really. This thread is a very narrow look at a single topic, and even then nothing here is all that controversial. III and IV would have generated similar if not more contested discussion if such exit threads had been made for them, and given the cyclical nature of fan discussion, no doubt such threads were made.
    The fandom's still making a huge fuss out of it, no matter how narrow the topic is. Even if it isn't actually that controversial, people will think it is.

  14. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azran Flame View Post
    The fandom's still making a huge fuss out of it, no matter how narrow the topic is. Even if it isn't actually that controversial, people will think it is.
    That's what I'm saying. The "controversy", a term I use loosely, is not exclusive to Generation V, or at least not nearly exclusive enough to it to label it "the most controversial generation amongst fans ever since Gen I."



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    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    That's what I'm saying. The "controversy", a term I use loosely, is not exclusive to Generation V, or at least not nearly exclusive enough to it to label it "the most controversial generation amongst fans ever since Gen I."
    Well, you know better than me, so if you say so...

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    I don't think it'll have that much of a legacy to be honest. It was one of the shortest generations yet, and the games weren't that memorable in my opinion. They weren't groundbreaking or iconic like Red & Blue, and they weren't improvements on previous games either. It's actually funny because the only thing I'll remember this generation for is introducing the Dream World, but you access that through a computer or other similar device, so it's not really in the games themselves. As for what other people will remember Generation 5 for, I'm honestly stumped. I can't imagine that people will remember the Pokemon because quite honestly, almost all of them looked reductive. I think people will remember the arguments about some of the Generation 5 Pokemon more than they'll remember the Pokemon themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    It was one of the shortest generations yet
    We've stated several times that it was equal in length to Generations I and II.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    and the games weren't that memorable in my opinion.
    And that's fine, but certainly you'd agree that any number of people would disagree with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    they weren't improvements on previous games either.
    Except they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    almost all of them looked reductive.
    You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    I think people will remember the arguments about some of the Generation 5 Pokemon more than they'll remember the Pokemon themselves.
    They'll remember both, incredibly enough. Claiming that people will remember an argument specifically over the aesthetics of something but not what that something was would be a tenuous claim, at best.



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  18. #143
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    These games were, no, are, so freakin epic!! I will never forget them.

  19. #144
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    Triple battles and Rotations battles didn't really leave much of a mark, from where I'm standing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowHat's Revenge View Post
    Triple battles and Rotations battles didn't really leave much of a mark, from where I'm standing.
    Well, personally, I think rotation battles are awesome, and one of the best things this gen brought, but most people don't seem to agree....

    I still haven't seen a major battle simulator capable of preforming rotation battles. And that really sucks, since I find them to be the most exciting competitively, at least. Though casually, I can understand why they're less popular.
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    Not to say I didn't like Rotation battles. Triple battles, no so much, but I found Rotation battles fun in-game (except for recently during my Black Nuzlocke when I lost my Palpitoad during a triple battle...)

    That aside, the two new battle types really didn't take off, and I don't know how much of them we'll see in the future.
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    Design: While it was controversial, I think it was a step forward from 4th gen. Sure, some were weird (Garbodorm etc.) but every gen has "bad" designs. Overall, the designs were great.
    Story: Big step forward, and I hope gen 6 will carry on with it.
    Gameplay: Reusable TMs, faster battle pace, fully-animated sprites, stronger pokemon in the tall grass and with more variety were all good. But above all is the fact that they finally changed that sounds it makes when your pokemon's HP is in the red.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atratus View Post
    Design: While it was controversial, I think it was a step forward from 4th gen. Sure, some were weird (Garbodorm etc.) but every gen has "bad" designs. Overall, the designs were great.
    Story: Big step forward, and I hope gen 6 will carry on with it.
    Gameplay: Reusable TMs, faster battle pace, fully-animated sprites, stronger pokemon in the tall grass and with more variety were all good. But above all is the fact that they finally changed that sounds it makes when your pokemon's HP is in the red.
    Well said. I'm not really a huge fan of Gen V, Gen IV was and still is my favorite of the five so far. But your points are spot on. Gen V was all about improvement, and I think it did this to the degree that could be handled on the (now defunct) DS carts. I would have never had said that a year ago, but when Pokemon moves on, so does time.

    As for it's mark on the scheme of things, I would rate V above III, II, and maybe even I, but definitely not IV. IV gave us a reason to buy the immense amount of DS Lites that were sold between 2006 - 2009. Gen V gave us a reason to not be mad about the price drop of DS consoles after the 3DS came marching along. And thus I'd rate Gen V as marginal by improvement. It sped things up, made great graphical improvements, revamped wireless game play, and tried to please a lot of folks at the same time on a system that was ultimately at it's time to pass, but even Nintendo saw a reason to release a new generation. (If only for the money grubbing.) Already this next series is looking to blow the current line-up off the pond, with cell-shaded frames, faster animation, and all of the benefits that a current handheld console has in a land of wireless communications.

    (And for the record, Trubbish has an insane role in Gen V as far as locality. It's flanking each side of a major city! It's evolution is on a road filled with bike riders, next to a consumer driven shopping mall. Why do you guys not get this? It doesn't need to be Mr. Statistician, and it's design is relevant enough. Love for Garbador and friends!)
    Last edited by Victreebong; 15th January 2013 at 12:35 AM.
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  24. #149
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    Where to begin...

    Someone said something about NinGF wanting to please fans. During GenIV, I heard a lot of people complain about unused type combos. GenV released the most PKMN with unique type combos. I could've sworn I saw Stoutland as a Fakemon on this site before GenV, and I made Fakemons with the same designs as Oshawott, Vinillish, Tribbish, and Garbador. Aside from that, the Pokemon had great designs. A Psychic Zubat with hearts! Polar Ursaring (also heard on this site)! The elemental monkeys were great (though I felt Pansear was a Chimchar clone, I was penultimatly wron). I still haven't started Black 2 (waiting on beating Black1), so I can't judge story.

    TCG: they took away levels! I'm glad they lowered the power of Basic PKMN's attacks. All PKMN were OPized in GenIV, now if they can unpower evolved PKMN. But they gave us the Dragon-type!

    Anime: I saw maybe 3 episodes: can't really judge. But from what I saw, not every attack needs anime backgrounds.

    Manga: didn't read.

    The Trubbish/Vannilite lines were actually good Pokemon.

    Oh! Before I forget! Rotation/Triple battles are crap. Pokemon are free-moving, so why can't my Tackle hit Zoroark on 'the left'? And reusable TMz were not needed. And WHO CARES about competitive? That's not why we're here. And about DW: I don't get it.
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  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdrawer View Post
    And reusable TMz were not needed.
    Okay, they aren't needed. Why are they such a bad thing to you?

    And WHO CARES about competitive. That's not why we're here.
    Don't project your own opinion on others. A lot of people care about compeititve Pokemon. Otherwise, VGC wouldn't have lines out the door during regional tournaments every year.

    And about DW: I don't get it.
    What don't you "get"?
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