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Thread: A Unova League Evolution (769)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Seeing Cameron beat Ash was a disappointment but seeing Virgil also only use 5 vs Cameron was great. Nice "payback." I expected Virgil to win ever since he was introduced and was surprised at Dino and Ramone's lineup. It's sad when the rival battles were more interesting than Ash's battles (exception being vs Stephan). Virgil was pretty cool and I hope he returns occasionally. Loved seeing Espeon, Flareon and Eevee. Trump Card was cool.
    I feel different about this... I mean this was the Unova league, shouldn't someone who actually used Unova Pokemon win the league... that alone is poor representation and what's worst is that it implies in itself that Gens 1-4 are clearly superior. Then Virgil doesn't even stick around long enough for anything and isn't even a full time trainer, how is that a league champion?

    Quote Originally Posted by gohan5 View Post
    I don't think that the anime staff is "lazy" necessarily, but rather that we're feeling the effects of a 3 year series now. A DP pace was never possible for this series and it probably could have seen the benefits from a little less rushing. But the games keep coming now, faster than ever before, and the anime is showing that.
    Except we've got 8 whole months left before the Gen 6 games hit the market... pretty sure 4 of those months could have been used wisely to prepare for the league and make it longer. No way this N arc can go on for 8 months, but with little to do outside of that, I don't know what they have planned.
    Last edited by Joltik-Kid; 10th January 2013 at 8:00 PM.
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  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I mean this was the Unova league, shouldn't someone who actually used Unova Pokemon win the league... that alone is poor representation and what's worst is that it implies in itself that Gens 1-4 are clearly superior.
    Told you all that you should treat Best Wishes as a filler saga before even it was cool.

  3. #103

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    I usually get sad when a league ends but I just have to say good riddance on this one.

  4. #104
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    I think the writers made the dumbest move. They made a whole new saga which shows only Unova Pokemon. Gym battle, rivals battles and wild Pokemon were only Unova. But then, the winner of the UNOVA league has no Unova Pokemon at all. That just screw all the hard work they did to promote the fifth generation. Virgil, along with Cameron's Lucario, shows that previous Pokemon are better than fifth generation Pokemon. Dino should have won.

    Also, it seems that Virgil isn't a real trainer. Of course he has badges, but his main job is the rescue team. It looks like he just passed by the league and decided to take part in it and apparently win.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstar1994 View Post
    Told you all that you should treat Best Wishes as a filler saga before even it was cool.
    I learned that after the first 12 good episodes of Best Wishes
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I feel different about this... I mean this was the Unova league, shouldn't someone who actually used Unova Pokemon win the league... that alone is poor representation and what's worst is that it implies in itself that Gens 1-4 are clearly superior. Then Virgil doesn't even stick around long enough for anything and isn't even a full time trainer, how is that a league champion?
    The winning with non-Unova pokemon implies nothing, it's just fans getting carried away. What do you mean about him not sticking around long enough? We have no idea how winning a league works, we never saw Tyson or Tobias' actions after the league. Not everyone that participates has that ambition of going further.

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  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    The winning with non-Unova pokemon implies nothing, it's just fans getting carried away. What do you mean about him not sticking around long enough? We have no idea how winning a league works, we never saw Tyson or Tobias' actions after the league. Not everyone that participates has that ambition of going further.
    Tobias doesn't care. He goes around to catch Arceus'es and Mewtwos everywhere. He was the strongest trainer we've ever saw in the Anime anyway, if they would show more of him, Cynthia's "overpowered" spot would fall down.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSirPeras View Post
    I'm pretty sure the writers would have had Infernape go blaze mode killing everything, even if Snorlax/Heracross/Quilava/Noctowl/Donphan/whatever else wasn't there. And if not that, Pikachu.
    Maybe because his Unova team is not so developed? catching 10 pokemon and then getting barely trained was kinda a mistake now looking back, that's where the writers failed, his team needed development.

    It's clear his team was all over the place. As much as top 8 for Ash disspointed me BIG TIME, I think he deserves that spot. (and wow people need to stop being so over dramatic lol)

    Cameron's team >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ash's Unova team

    Chapter N Ash or Gen VI Ash needs to be "redone", a smaller, a la Hoenn team, Ash needs for Gen VI IMO so the mons gets more focus overall ***crossing fingers for the writers***

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickHoenn View Post
    Maybe because his Unova team is not so developed? catching 10 pokemon and then getting barely trained was kinda a mistake now looking back, that's where the writers failed, his team needed development.

    It's clear his team was all over the place. As much as top 8 for Ash disspointed me BIG TIME, I think he deserves that spot. (and wow people need to stop being so over dramatic lol)

    Cameron's team >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ash's Unova team

    Chapter N Ash or Gen VI Ash needs to be "redone", a smaller, a la Hoenn team, Ash needs for Gen VI IMO so the mons gets more focus overall ***crossing fingers for the writers***
    No matter how much we say that his team wasn't trained well enough, it was implied that Ash had three additional months to train his pokemon. About 4 of them learned new moves alone. It was also Ash's fault, tactical wise to keep Pignite against Samurott. It seems like Pignite could have taken Lucario down with one or two fire pledges.

    I also feel like if he used his old pokemon, he would have definitely won this league. With that being said, I feel like Kotetsu was trolled by Virgil for us to not be as angry Ash lost? I know this point about his older pokemon contradicts my former statement, but it seemed like it was purely a tactical/ Writers being ******** to us, but having Ash lose in this fashion. I am more upset that he lost to Lucario with Kotetsu using just five pokemon. It really was a smack in the face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrizza88 View Post
    No matter how much we say that his team wasn't trained well enough, it was implied that Ash had three additional months to train his pokemon. About 4 of them learned new moves alone. It was also Ash's fault, tactical wise to keep Pignite against Samurott. It seems like Pignite could have taken Lucario down with one or two fire pledges.
    He could have switched in for Pikachu, gotten those wins and have Pignite beat Riolu easily, speaking tactically

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    The winning with non-Unova pokemon implies nothing, it's just fans getting carried away. What do you mean about him not sticking around long enough? We have no idea how winning a league works, we never saw Tyson or Tobias' actions after the league. Not everyone that participates has that ambition of going further.
    Your just happy he beat Cameron, that's why you don't see the big picture. Everyone who's won a League has owned Pokemon from the region (You could tell me I'm wrong about Johto, but Kanto Pokemon were still relevant in that generation) but here we've got some guy who doesn't own a single gen 5 Pokemon winning a gen 5 league tournament. That's like saying someone goes to the Pokemon World Championships (video games) and wins with only Pokemon from the past generations, yet clearly everyone uses at least one Unova Pokemon nowadays. So no, this wasn't doing the Gen 5 any justice. As for Virgil, he went off on a mission from the looks of things after getting his trophy, shows how serious a trainer he is
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSirPeras View Post
    He could have switched in for Pikachu, gotten those wins and have Pignite beat Riolu easily, speaking tactically
    Exactly!!! It just shows me how disappointed I truly am with this league. Unfezant could have clearly beat Riolu as well. I still stand by my former statements that Snivy and Unfezant won battles right before the league, because the writers probably thought it would make up for their losses. I do give props to Snivy for doing really well IMO. Pikachu too, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Your just happy he beat Cameron, that's why you don't see the big picture. Everyone who's won a League has owned Pokemon from the region (You could tell me I'm wrong about Johto, but Kanto Pokemon were still relevant in that generation) but here we've got some guy who doesn't own a single gen 5 Pokemon winning a gen 5 league tournament. That's like saying someone goes to the Pokemon World Championships (video games) and wins with only Pokemon from the past generations, yet clearly everyone uses at least one Unova Pokemon nowadays. So no, this wasn't doing the Gen 5 any justice. As for Virgil, he went off on a mission from the looks of things after getting his trophy, shows how serious a trainer he is
    I am not going to lie, at the time when I was so upset (which is probably the most upset I've ever been watching this show), I was happy to see Virgil destroy Kotetsu.

    But, it is a shame that the last standing pokemon were Sinnon/Kanto Pokemon, when i really think about it. The league was an opportunity in general to show off serious powerhouse pokemon. I was hoping to see Chandelier, Elektross (a good one at least), Golurk, Zoroark, and other beastly Pokemon be serious threats. It baffles me that so many pokemon could have battled, and yes, we should have seen Ash battle with at least two more pokemon, with wins going to the likes of Snivy, Leavanny, Unfezant, Palpitoad, Oshawott and Boldore who didn't get a single win on screen. There could have been one more 3 vs 3 and one other 6 vs 6. They could have done two 4 vs 4 since the writers seems to try to avoid 6 vs 6 battles -__-. I only really enjoyed Ash vs Stephan and Ash vs Trip.

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  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Like I said it all ties in as his personality relies on battles, as the character himself lives to battle. So yeah, I've noticed the certain "spark" as you could call it, shift in Best Wishes. He doesn't seem like he seriously wants to do anything
    Hmm again, it's not really what I mean I guess we have different opinions.

    I just feel his personality has changed too much, in OS Ash was a joker, competant and whilst immature still mature when it really counted. The Ash of BW is too happy complimenting his opponents all the time, never jokes (besides in Movie 14) and mentally acts mature but everything he does is like a little kid (yes Iris you're right).

    It's actually really hard to explain but like I said if you were to watch one episode of each saga you'd notice the horrible contrast.

  14. #114
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    Lol, Iris sounded like Dawn during this battle..."Daijoubu, Daijoubu!". Guess they picked up each others lines :PP

    But, yeah..battle between Lucario and Pikachu was decent, to bad everything before in Kotetsu's battle with Ash was tripe. So *yawn* overall.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Your just happy he beat Cameron, that's why you don't see the big picture. Everyone who's won a League has owned Pokemon from the region (You could tell me I'm wrong about Johto, but Kanto Pokemon were still relevant in that generation) but here we've got some guy who doesn't own a single gen 5 Pokemon winning a gen 5 league tournament. That's like saying someone goes to the Pokemon World Championships (video games) and wins with only Pokemon from the past generations, yet clearly everyone uses at least one Unova Pokemon nowadays. So no, this wasn't doing the Gen 5 any justice. As for Virgil, he went off on a mission from the looks of things after getting his trophy, shows how serious a trainer he is
    I don't get... why is this a big issue anyway?

    Eevee is not a pokemon? what it is? a Digimon? a Yu-Gi-Oh monster? what's is the fuss about it? being I, II, III, IV, V gen pokemon matters because? They're all Pokemon, Eevee is Virgil's MAIN POKEMON, just like Tyson's Meowth was or Tobias' Darkrai was.

    I find this complain to be pretty absurd, you just try to find bad in everything.

  16. #116
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    eh even tho kotetsu lost i thought Lucario vs Pikachu and this episode a great episode.. the ending was pretty nice how he looked back at his journey and how Short it was :P but still i think this was the best episode out of the whole league >.<

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Hmm again, it's not really what I mean I guess we have different opinions.

    I just feel his personality has changed too much, in OS Ash was a joker, competant and whilst immature still mature when it really counted. The Ash of BW is too happy complimenting his opponents all the time, never jokes (besides in Movie 14) and mentally acts mature but everything he does is like a little kid (yes Iris you're right).

    It's actually really hard to explain but like I said if you were to watch one episode of each saga you'd notice the horrible contrast.
    I don't really know who's not getting who because that what I'm trying to get across :O
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  18. #118
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    I'm actually glad that Virgil won the League. From the look of his fight against Cameron he seemed a quite good strategist. He managed to beat Cameron's six Pokemon with only 5 Pokemon and only losing three. Ash, why can't you pull a similar feat?

    I liked the match between Lucario and Pikachu. It was hard-fought and dynamic. If only the other half was that lively, I could have appreciated this match a bit more.

    Anyway, for the first time I'm actually glad that a League is over. It was like a drag to me, and that's sad because I usually love the Leagues. Oh, well... time to move on.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Your just happy he beat Cameron, that's why you don't see the big picture. Everyone who's won a League has owned Pokemon from the region (You could tell me I'm wrong about Johto, but Kanto Pokemon were still relevant in that generation) but here we've got some guy who doesn't own a single gen 5 Pokemon winning a gen 5 league tournament. That's like saying someone goes to the Pokemon World Championships (video games) and wins with only Pokemon from the past generations, yet clearly everyone uses at least one Unova Pokemon nowadays. So no, this wasn't doing the Gen 5 any justice. As for Virgil, he went off on a mission from the looks of things after getting his trophy, shows how serious a trainer he is
    You're just upset for no real reason.
    So what if he didn't have a Unova pokemon? Unova pokemon were all we saw in the first 100 episodes or so. That's what Best Wishes Season 2 was all about, having older pokemon back in the show.Virgil went off on a mission? Well it's not like he's doing his job and rescuing pokemon and people. Once again we never saw what the previous league winners did afterward so you can't judge Virgil on that. Besides Zoey, a Top Coordinator went back home. Why don't you ague why she didn't say she was heading for another region or something instead of going home? I honestly don't know why you are getting all worked up over such a meaningless point. It's also not like the saga is over and Unova pokemon will still be the focus.

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  20. #120
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    I hate this episode!! Ash should have gained the 4th place again, even without his old Pokemon. They better give us something to compensate it during "Chapter N", making Ash the winner of a new "tournament" (similar to the Orange Islands or the Battle Frontier) or I'm gonna jump to the writers' throats.

  21. #121
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    As much as I want to forget the Unova League as fast as possible, this episode was handled better than I thought it would be.

    Pikachu vs Lucario might be the best single fight in this League. It helps that we didn't know whether Pikachu would lose or they would tie (well, we mostly knew). The ending of that battle with the realization that Pikachu's going to lose before he got knocked out was tense. I'm also glad that Virgil at least won the League, since it adds some usefulness to his character existing.

    I also really liked the moment with Ash and Pikachu standing in the centre of the stadium. It gave me nostalgic vibes. The flashback montage was nice too. Odd that next time isn't a new adventure though.

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  22. #122
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    Who's Pokeball was Ash holding at the end though?

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zya View Post
    Who's Pokeball was Ash holding at the end though?
    Probably his own.

    Anyway, saw the pictures, and there were some disappointments and some good things. It's too bad Ash lost to Cameron, but at least Virgil avenged Ash by taking down Cameron. Nice to see Virgil winning.

  24. #124
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    I'm hollering right now. So Ash lost to Cameron like I predicted. And let's see, Cameron lost to Virgil as I predicted. And Virgil won the tournament as I predicted. I'm only happy about the last two things since Lucario got a taste of his own medicine against Flareon, and Virgil was definitely a better trainer than Cameron, who for some reason was able to advance to the next round after he beat Ash even though he didn't have five Pokemon, which was a clear violation of the rules of a full battle. But of course, nobody noticed or cared about that broken rule, so Cameron got the honor of battling Virgil, which should have belonged to Ash. Anyway, this was the worst League ever and the only thing that redeemed it somewhat was Virgil sweeping the entire thing. Kudos to him for winning the Unova League without cheating. I still have to give this episode a 1 out of 10 though, simply because although justice was served in the end, it was still bittersweet.

  25. #125

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    I knew Ash would lose the league again. It seems like Ash trained his Pikachu boosted his speed making look like Ash has a good chance winning the league. Cameron's Lucario still has the same personality when Cameron's Lucario was a Riolu when sunrises it reminds me one of the older openings where Ash was in the hoenn pokemon league.

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