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Thread: A Unova League Evolution (769)

  1. #301
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    Do you mean he could lose to Virgil? Cuz I agree. That was the worst battle in any league. Ash could have beat Lucario if he used more electric moves, as he always did in past matches.
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    Screw you, Virgil! We don't care if your Eevee found confidence in herself! Go get drunk in that party you didn't invite the others to.
    Oh man, that grinds my gears so much. Totally inconsiderate! But seriously, that would have been less awkward if he asked them all to go whether or not they'd accept the invite. It's like Zoey inviting Dawn to her celebration in Snowpoint City for winning the GF.

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  3. #303
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    I would've loved if Cameron actually just tricked Ash into thinking he only had five Pokemon to mess up his strategy. Pikachu beats Lucario, but Cameron sends out Watchog who finishes Pikachu off.

    Epic heel turn.
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVD_fan View Post
    I would've loved if Cameron actually just tricked Ash into thinking he only had five Pokemon to mess up his strategy. Pikachu beats Lucario, but Cameron sends out Watchog who finishes Pikachu off.

    Epic heel turn.
    You seriously think cameron of all people would be able to think of that ever? The guy has to give himself brain damage just to be able.of thinking of strategies to win like every 5 seconds.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    I think Ash was too shocked that he actually lost an idiot like Cameron to display any emotions.

    I mean it's not like the battle was really done well, nor was it even a real full battle, I think it would be interesting to see how it would've been different if Ash actually was a little bit smarter in his choices.

    Sending out Pignite against Hydreigon from the get-go, then since to Oshawott, while giving Pignite to rest, have Oshawott lose, then Ash sends out Pignite, and wins and then Cameron sends out Samurott, Pignite is recalled, then Ash sends out Snivy and wins, only to lose to Swanna, then Pikachu could take it out (recall Pikachu), then have Ferrothorn battling Boldore, they end up tying. Have Pignite lose easily to Riolu, then have Unfezant do a lot of damage to Riolu, results in evolution then have Lucario take out Unfezant after a decent battle, then have Pikachu mop the floor with Lucario.

    Ash wins because Cameron only had 5 Pokemon, and Ash could lose to Cameron (having Leavanny beat Umbreon just to lose to Flareon).
    Works for me, but I think you meant Virigl in that closing statement XD
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    You seriously think cameron of all people would be able to think of that ever? The guy has to give himself brain damage just to be able.of thinking of strategies to win like every 5 seconds.
    That's what makes Ash's loss so much worse imo. He was facing someone who wasn't playing with a full deck of cards, if you know what I mean. And technically Cameron wouldn't have been able to participate in the tournament at all if Ash hadn't helped him register for the League before the deadline, which he almost missed. Ash practically held Cameron's hand throughout the tournament and he wasn't even mad when he lost. That's what really ticks me off. I've never been so disappointed with a Pokemon episode as I was with this one.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Works for me, but I think you meant Virigl in that closing statement XD
    Man.

    I thought that there two characters named Cameron the one Ash lost to, and the Eevee trainer.

    ....

    Considering for whatever reason my post is full of typos, good god what's wrong with me, it explains why I wrote Cameron instead of Virgil.

    Time to fix my post.
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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    That's what makes Ash's loss so much worse imo. He was facing someone who wasn't playing with a full deck of cards, if you know what I mean. And technically Cameron wouldn't have been able to participate in the tournament at all if Ash hadn't helped him register for the League before the deadline, which he almost missed. Ash practically held Cameron's hand throughout the tournament and he wasn't even mad when he lost. That's what really ticks me off. I've never been so disappointed with a Pokemon episode as I was with this one.
    Actually, Cameron missed the registration entirely in the end. That's what's most frustrating, considering Ash and Cameron had to beg Nurse Joy to allow an exception. Ridiculous. Life is never going to be about making the breaks.

    Truthfully, in the Japanese airings, there was plenty of time to air an episode in between to the end of Ash VS Cameron to squeeze in Ash VS Virgil. They just skipped 2 episodes worth of broadcast, and that was a huge bummer. But I shall speak no more of it, since it's all done, and there's nothing we can do about it.

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  9. #309
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    So the Unova conference ends with Ash ending up were he did in Johto and Hoenn Top 8, unfortunately this is lackluster compared to those battles, cuase the writer's totally forgot that Snivy had Attart which would've ended the battle. Then we could've gotten Ash vs. Vrigil which would've been more interesting.
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  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by the1stpkmnfan View Post
    Actually, Cameron missed the registration entirely in the end. That's what's most frustrating, considering Ash and Cameron had to beg Nurse Joy to allow an exception. Ridiculous. Life is never going to be about making the breaks.

    Truthfully, in the Japanese airings, there was plenty of time to air an episode in between to the end of Ash VS Cameron to squeeze in Ash VS Virgil. They just skipped 2 episodes worth of broadcast, and that was a huge bummer. But I shall speak no more of it, since it's all done, and there's nothing we can do about it.
    And if the moron wasn't allowed in, this would've been the first league with an incomplete number of trainers: 127.

    Actually, I find it so oddly convenient that there's never a broken number of trainers that made it to the league. I wonder what happens to those who didn't make it in time (WITHOUT NAGGING NURSE JOY)...

  11. #311

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    I actually loved this episode, Pikachu vs Lucario was epic. The closing ceremony was standard but still cool, the flashback of the BW saga was nice and the ending was great. The music was also good in the Japanese Version only.

    It's the overall fact Ash lost to Cameron which sucked.

    And the rest of the League.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    That's what makes Ash's loss so much worse imo. He was facing someone who wasn't playing with a full deck of cards, if you know what I mean. And technically Cameron wouldn't have been able to participate in the tournament at all if Ash hadn't helped him register for the League before the deadline, which he almost missed. Ash practically held Cameron's hand throughout the tournament and he wasn't even mad when he lost. That's what really ticks me off. I've never been so disappointed with a Pokemon episode as I was with this one.
    I feel the same way. If Ash and co. didn't correct him on the 7 badges thing, he wouldn't have been eligible to enter the tournament in the first place. He would have been in Johto. I dislike Cameron more than Ritchie because at least Ritchie had common sense.



  13. #313
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    For those who liked it...well okay, I guess there are people who did, no point in me forcing my opinion on you guys ;<

    I for one didn't particularly care for the league at all and I'd just like to point out that Pepsi actually called this long ago, so sorry for not believing the writers poor choice in writing. Ash literally learned nothing from this lost (okay, he didn't really learn anything in the last two leagues either, but at least he lost to the overall champ) but we as a group sure learned something... Evolved Pokemon win you tournaments unless you have Virgil plot hax in the form of marketing.
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  14. #314
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    This League fell victim to having a lot of bad decision making. I really never was as disappointed in a League as I was this one. All the other Leagues were great in my opinion and all had something going for them. This League felt so rushed and having an Axew episode in the middle of it really made no sense. Two of the main rivals AKA the rivals people actually care about (Trip, Bianca and Stephan) got screwed over. Stephan got a good battle and went out exactly around the place I think people were guessing (Top 16) so I wouldn't call him screwed over. But Bianca lost way too early in the League to a rival that no one really likes or cares about all too much (Cameron) and Trip lost in the preliminaries when people thought he would have an epic 6 vs. 6 battle with Ash. The way Cameron beat Ash was ridiculous and this may sound strange to say but I actually think Cameron was a really boring rival. I know that boring wouldn't be a word most people would think of with Cameron and I don't know what it was. But there was something so dull about him. Virgil was a great character in his debut episode but we didn't get to see him battle Ash in the League and we didn't get to see how he battles. I would have loved to see what different strategies he uses. But since we saw almost none of his battles and strategies in the League, his win didn't feel as grand as it could have been.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    I feel the same way. If Ash and co. didn't correct him on the 7 badges thing, he wouldn't have been eligible to enter the tournament in the first place. He would have been in Johto. I dislike Cameron more than Ritchie because at least Ritchie had common sense.
    What was Ash supposed to do? Not say anything? He isn't mean like that. How was he supposed to know that later on his future against him would be his fault because he was trying to help the failed abortion.

    And I'm glad Virgil won. I would be angry to have someone that dumb winner of any league anyway. Plus the eevee evolutions even though they are small can be stronger than Pikachu. This is anime and game fact as well.

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  16. #316
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    be honest with me people, would most of you have accepted Ash losing to Virgil? Cause I do remember some people saying that Ash's loss would've looked worse than Sinnoh anyway since the eeveelutions are inferior to legendaries, someone calling themselves robert (though it wasn't his forum name) was the most vocal about it.

    I would not have carred in all honesty, perhaps they didn't want Ash to face the eeveelutions since there are seven of them (eight with the coming the new one) and perhaps they couldn't pick which ones for Ash to go up against.

    Either way despite Cameron having idiot savant syndrome, he did alright, we knew he had a sixth pokemon (as seen in his battle with Virgil, though seeing a watchog get pounded is hardly worth the extra time since we've seen it enough already) he just forgot to bring it to his fight with Ash, which to me is no big deal because who's to say Tobias had brought six with him during any of his sinnoh matches.

    The only thing about the battle that irks me is not that Ash lost to Cameron, but Pikachu losing to Lucario since it makes me wretch at the thought of his fight with Maylene, yes I know Cameron's Lucario is obviously stronger than hers, but it ticks me off that he could barely draw with hers when previous damage was done, and Buizel was blantanly given not one but two handicaps (the weather kicking in his ability, and a new move) yet here Pikachu couldn't take one straight up?

    Lucario's one of my fav pokemon, but I don't like seeing it in the anime as something Ash can't beat in a straight 1 on 1 fight, after all once it evolved Snivy wouldn't have made a difference even if she did use Attract, and considering Bianca's Emboar pounded his Samurott in with that move earlier on, he probably would've had Lucario dodge it or block it.

  17. #317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    be honest with me people, would most of you have accepted Ash losing to Virgil?
    Yes.

    This was exactly what I wanted, however no matter what I still want Pikachu vs Lucario to happen against Cameron in the previous round. In-fact, i'd have been more than fine with Ash stating that Pikachu was weakened too much against Lucario that it can't fight against Virgil.

    Krookodile would have been my ideal Pokemon to be the final matchup against Virgil where he unfortunately loses, i'd have liked him to lost involving his Sunglasses somehow but alas the writers didn't do it.

    Cause I do remember some people saying that Ash's loss would've looked worse than Sinnoh anyway since the eeveelutions are inferior to legendaries, someone calling themselves robert (though it wasn't his forum name) was the most vocal about it.
    I remember people saying this too.

    I didn't say it, but I think regardless no battle can really compete with legendaries unless Ash lost to legendaries yet again.

    perhaps they didn't want Ash to face the eeveelutions since there are seven of them (eight with the coming the new one) and perhaps they couldn't pick which ones for Ash to go up against.
    I think they wanted to showcase the Eeveelutions purely because they've planned a Virgil return with Sylveon, although I don't see why he couldn't have returned if he lost (this isn't confirmed btw).

    Either way despite Cameron having idiot savant syndrome, he did alright,
    No.

    He did terrible. The only thing that allowed him to win was his friends helping him participate in the League, his luck with Lucario evolving and his surprisingly strong team, which really shows Ash is doing something wrong if Cameron can form a stronger team with love and trust just the same as Ash.

    he just forgot to bring it to his fight with Ash,
    Which is absolutely ridiculous.

    Having 6 Pokemon is stressed loud and clear in the Pokemon Universe, he's been training since the very least the start of the Unova Region (maybe even longer) and has never caught on that 6 Pokemon is the maximum.

    I'm not one to use foul language but jesus christ he is absolutely retarded if he thinks a FULL battle is a 5v5 this late into his Pokemon Journey. He's managed to get 8 badges and has even caught at the very minimum 6 Pokemon, why the hell wouldn't you have a sixth Pokemon on hand regardless of whether it's a full battle or not.

    which to me is no big deal because who's to say Tobias had brought six with him during any of his sinnoh matches.
    Very true, but Darkrai alone was proven to be strong enough to get him that far into the tournament. If he relied on Darkrai alone, it can be understandable since it's such a powerhouse and was capable of taking down teams of 6.

    The only thing about the battle that irks me is not that Ash lost to Cameron, but Pikachu losing to Lucario since it makes me wretch at the thought of his fight with Maylene, yes I know Cameron's Lucario is obviously stronger than hers, but it ticks me off that he could barely draw with hers when previous damage was done, and Buizel was blantanly given not one but two handicaps (the weather kicking in his ability, and a new move) yet here Pikachu couldn't take one straight up?
    I absolutely loved the epicness of the battle, it was tense and incredible in my opinion.

    The reason Pikachu couldn't defeat Lucario straight up was stated out right by Cilan and Co. watching the battle, Pikachu had already fought against Swanna and Samurott so was extremely tired.

    If Pikachu was at full health, a draw was more likely to happen.

    Lucario's one of my fav pokemon, but I don't like seeing it in the anime as something Ash can't beat in a straight 1 on 1 fight, after all once it evolved Snivy wouldn't have made a difference even if she did use Attract, and considering Bianca's Emboar pounded his Samurott in with that move earlier on, he probably would've had Lucario dodge it or block it.
    It would have been nice to see Ash defeat Maylenes Lucario, but I think we've had enough of them showcased now. They're a cool Pokemon (and one of my faves in general) but we've had too many appear now. The only way i'd accept another one appearing is if it's Cameron's again where Pikachu has a rematch and defeats it.

    Also, see above for reasosn as to why Pikachu couldn't defeat it.

  18. #318
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    I believe a better question is; Would people have accepted it if Ash battled Virgil and lost to him the same way Cameron did?

    Which is Ash only managing to knock out three of Virgil's Eevee family and Virgil not even having to use his sixth Eeveelution.
    Fact 1: Cameron/Kotetsu is not disliked by everybody, stop saying he is, there are people in the fandom who do like him. I am one of those people.

    Fact 2: The majority of people who like unpopular characters are always the most nicest and sensible and, therefore, the best people of the fandom.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I absolutely loved the epicness of the battle, it was tense and incredible in my opinion.

    The reason Pikachu couldn't defeat Lucario straight up was stated out right by Cilan and Co. watching the battle, Pikachu had already fought against Swanna and Samurott so was extremely tired.

    If Pikachu was at full health, a draw was more likely to happen.
    Snivy did inflict damage to Riolu before it evolved, so I felt they were on equal terms.

  20. #320

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    Cameron's Lucario isn't as strong as Maylene's because the latter was shown to have more battle experience, aura abilities put to use in the battle, and of course Buizel got lucky because it was a rainy day (and the trainers have complete disregard of wrecking a building). Personal added bonus: her Lucario got a little backstory.

    You know who's Lucario is the strongest? Riley's.

  21. #321
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    Judging the battle on its own, I thought the beginning with Hydreigon and the ending with Lucario was alright, even if the Pikachu/Lucario battle was a little awkward because of their shapes. It was the middle part that I think let the battle down. I get why they really want to keep switching to a minimum since without the games turn structure trainers could potentially just keep switching around forever (i'll send out a fire type, i'll send out a water type, i'll switch my fire for an electric, i'll switch my water for a grass, i'll switch back to my fire, etc.) but having Ash catch up by having Cameron be really dumb instead of Ash possibly outmaneuvering him with some interesting strategies made for a pretty lame middle part of the battle.

    My biggest problem with it as a whole is that Cameron reminds me a lot of Ash back in the Kanto league, a kid who was clearly out of his league but made up for his lack of knowledge and experience with heart and determination. So it seems odd that Ash, who has gone though all these journeys since then and become more mature is now losing to someone who is like who he was back at the start of his journey.

    Now it's not necessarily bad that they would do something like this, but I don't think they did enough with Cameron to make him endearing enough for it to work. There's a very fine line between a character who makes a lot of mistakes but the audience can see their heart is in the right place, and a character the audience starts to resent because they just seem to be stumbling into whatever success they have, and I think Cameron has fallen squarely into the latter category.
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  22. #322
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    I think it is funny how everyone is like.. he should have attracted his way to win... but you know what..even if that had happened? people would still complain how he won with it..


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  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweenghost View Post
    I think it is funny how everyone is like.. he should have attracted his way to win... but you know what..even if that had happened? people would still complain how he won with it..
    Not really....that's what her big signature move early on was and it's completely fair game. It would have been the best way for it win because it would show Ash actually using strategey based on things he learned from battling in the past.
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  24. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Not really....that's what her big signature move early on was and it's completely fair game. It would have been the best way for it win because it would show Ash actually using strategey based on things he learned from battling in the past.
    He just doesn't do well with female Pokémon in his team. Example: Bayleef.

  25. #325

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    He just doesn't do well with female Pokémon in his team. Example: Bayleef.
    B/S LOGIC STRIKES AGAIN.

    Snivy has proven to be extremely powerful, but if you don't like the sound of this, her battle ratio proves she has more wins than losses.

    Bayleef? LOL she completely dominated Ash's gym battle against Chuck defeating both Poliwrath and Machoke. She also took down Harrison's Houndoom, you know, the Pokemon that has an advantage over her typing? She also took down Bugsy's Spinarak.

    Do you watch the anime?

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