A Unova League Evolution (769)

**Joltik-Kid** · 17th March 2013, 9:54 PM

Originally Posted by pokemonsquared

And Ash didn't do the exact same to his opponents many many times?

That's just my point ;D Momentum doesn't exist

Still though, Pikachu had the battle won

**~~pokemonsquared~~** · 17th March 2013, 9:56 PM

Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid

That's just my point ;D Momentum doesn't exist

Still though, Pikachu had the battle won

Well see Pikachu did that to serperior in R1 Lucario turned the tables with similar tactics now. Karma's a female lilipup.

**Haunter227** · 17th March 2013, 10:00 PM

It amazes me how in the League, the only Pokemon to gain wins was Pikachu, Pignite, Scraggy and Krookodile.

If I had the League my way still having the same matches the writers chose, i'd have had it like this:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Trip:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Random Trainer:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Stephan:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Cameron:

I wish I was a writer, the Unova League had great ideas but executed them horribly. I hate to brag, but I've kept the same ideas as the writers and changed them into something which I personally believe is 10x better and would have at least satisfied people.

**~~pokemonsquared~~** · 17th March 2013, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Haunter227

-Snivy vs Serperior = Winner Snivy

I wish I was a writer, the Unova League had great ideas but executed them horribly. I hate to brag, but I've kept the same ideas as the writers and changed them into something which I personally believe is 10x better and would have at least satisfied people.

Yeah that particular bit would have satisfied no one.

**Joltik-Kid** · 17th March 2013, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Haunter227

I wish I was a writer, the Unova League had great ideas but executed them horribly. I hate to brag, but I've kept the same ideas as the writers and changed them into something which I personally believe is 10x better and would have at least satisfied people.

Your battles don't make much logical sense (Snivy beats Serperior but Oshawott loses to Samurott XD) But from a plot standpoint, they work out. Trip's taunts about Snivy were made useless as she never fought him again. I'd give Oshawott the second round win over Boldore considering he hasn't had any win since Clay's gym. People would still be pissed off that you didn't change the Stephan battle though, because everyone thought Leavanny deserved that KO.

**Haunter227** · 17th March 2013, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid

Your battles don't make much logical sense (Snivy beats Serperior but Oshawott loses to Samurott XD)

Well I felt a basic evolution shouldn't really beat it's fully evolved form twice, and Snivy has beaten Servine before so i felt it was more logical for Snivy to beat Serperior instead of Oshawott beating Samurott. Also, Cameron is the stronger trainer so his Samurott would be a stronger opponent.

( But from a plot standpoint, they work out. Trip's taunts about Snivy were made useless as she never fought him again.

Snivy did battle him twice thought, the first time defeating Servine, the second losing. A final confrontation Snivy vs Seperperior would have been great in my opinion to solve the thing once and for all. Also Snivy winning would have proved Ash right from the start of BW about Pokemon not always needing to evolve.

I know Servine countered the tactic, but i'd like to think that ultimately Snivy re-countered Serperior and defeated it.

I'd give Oshawott the second round win over Boldore considering he hasn't had any win since Clay's gym.

I did debate that actually, but I kind of thought it would be a little sucky if Snivy, Oshawott and Scraggy were the Pokemon used for the first half of the Unova League (since only 4 battles took place). I figured at least one larger/bulkier Pokemon should be used at that point.

People would still be pissed off that you didn't change the Stephan battle though, because everyone thought Leavanny deserved that KO.

I never noticed that at all, but fair enough. All I heard was people praising how good the battle was.

**Joltik-Kid** · 17th March 2013, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Haunter227

Well I felt a basic evolution shouldn't really beat it's fully evolved form twice, and Snivy has beaten Servine before so i felt it was more logical for Snivy to beat Serperior instead of Oshawott beating Samurott. Also, Cameron is the stronger trainer so his Samurott would be a stronger opponent.

pokemonsquared does make a point that no one likely would like this though. I couldn't tell you if Cameron's stronger then Trip because of how badly the writers treated Trip anyway. If we go by placing, then sure, but since neither fought each other, I hate speculating.

Snivy did battle him twice thought, the first time defeating Servine, the second losing. A final confrontation Snivy vs Seperperior would have been great in my opinion to solve the thing once and for all. Also Snivy winning would have proved Ash right from the start of BW about Pokemon not always needing to evolve.

I know Servine countered the tactic, but i'd like to think that ultimately Snivy re-countered Serperior and defeated it.

Considering Serperior lost the move that countered Attract in the first place, I could buy the whole Snivy beating Serperior, though I liked Thunderblades thought about a year ago (I think) that Snivy beats Serperior and evolves exactly after doing so.

I did debate that actually, but I kind of thought it would be a little sucky if Snivy, Oshawott and Scraggy were the Pokemon used for the first half of the Unova League (since only 4 battles took place). I figured at least one larger/bulkier Pokemon should be used at that point.

True, but your Ash vs Cameron has the bigger guys winning the battles of the more serious half of the league, so I think it equals out.

I never noticed that at all, but fair enough. All I heard was people praising how good the battle was.

That was the only complaint about the episode, but people praise it because it was the best treated battle in the whole league. Though I would say Pikachu vs Lucario was a pretty good match appeal-wise, but poorly handled end result-wise

**Haunter227** · 17th March 2013, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid

pokemonsquared does make a point that no one likely would like this though. I couldn't tell you if Cameron's stronger then Trip because of how badly the writers treated Trip anyway. If we go by placing, then sure, but since neither fought each other, I hate speculating.

I agree definetly, but I don't really see why.

I can't argue why people should like the idea, but I do fail to see why people dislike it so much (i've mentioned it before). Bulbasaur drew with Meganium in the Johto League. Snivy could barely defeat Serperior in my eyes, and I just feel it's fitting since she has beaten it before and has been critisised by Trip.

Considering Serperior lost the move that countered Attract in the first place, I could buy the whole Snivy beating Serperior, though I liked Thunderblades thought about a year ago (I think) that Snivy beats Serperior and evolves exactly after doing so.

I'd settle with that, since it's still the same battle and outcome although I do prefer Snivy personally.

True, but your Ash vs Cameron has the bigger guys winning the battles of the more serious half of the league, so I think it equals out.

Good point, well regardless I think I prefer my idea but yeah it's not going to change anything, only a fan-fic if I ever resorted to those measures.

That was the only complaint about the episode, but people praise it because it was the best treated battle in the whole league. Though I would say Pikachu vs Lucario was a pretty good match appeal-wise, but poorly handled end result-wise

Agreed.

**Joltik-Kid** · 17th March 2013, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Haunter227

I agree definetly, but I don't really see why.

I can't argue why people should like the idea, but I do fail to see why people dislike it so much (i've mentioned it before). Bulbasaur drew with Meganium in the Johto League. Snivy could barely defeat Serperior in my eyes, and I just feel it's fitting since she has beaten it before and has been critisised by Trip.

People regard Bulbasaur as a different case because Meganium isn't part of Bulbasaur's evolutionary family. In all of Pokemon, the only one to beat it's final evolution in base form is Pikachu, nothing else has done so. Ash contemplated using(or more like just thought of it) Bulbasaur against Drake's Venasaur but decided against it because he knew it was Bulbasaur's final form and likely way stronger then him.

I'd settle with that, since it's still the same battle and outcome although I do prefer Snivy personally.

She clearly needs something though, she's Ash's only Pokemon from Unova to not get a new move at some point, making her more stale then old bread itself.

Good point, well regardless I think I prefer my idea but yeah it's not going to change anything, only a fan-fic if I ever resorted to those measures.

I'd say fanfiction is for those who dream, but I've actually liked the ones that I've read up to this point. And that's not just Pokemon fanfics.

Agreed.

I knew you would XD, that was like the only positive all of the fanbase agreed upon about this particular battle

**Haunter227** · 17th March 2013, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid

People regard Bulbasaur as a different case because Meganium isn't part of Bulbasaur's evolutionary family. In all of Pokemon, the only one to beat it's final evolution in base form is Pikachu, nothing else has done so. Ash contemplated using(or more like just thought of it) Bulbasaur against Drake's Venasaur but decided against it because he knew it was Bulbasaur's final form and likely way stronger then him.

Eh, a very minor different case imo. It doesn't defeat the fact it's a final evolved grass type starter which a basic staged grass starter fought against and did well with.

Fair enough it's never truly happened before (Raichu is only one stage higher so that is a different case), I suppose if you counted Movie 10's intro, Piplup drew against Empoleon (which was very unbelievable no doubt, but still it's the case of first staged starter vs final staged starter).

Regardless anyway, Best Wishes has done so many new things that it's ridiculous to think a basic starter will never defeat a final staged starter.

Ash considered Bulbasaur against Venusaur and yes he considered the odds of winning, but he does that a large amount of the time gambling his luck with Pokemon that have disadvantages and wins every so often so the same could happen eventually.

Eh who knows.

She clearly needs something though, she's Ash's only Pokemon from Unova to not get a new move at some point, making her more stale then old bread itself.

Definetly, I agree.

I'd love a new move, a look back at her past, a resolution with her rivalry against Emolga... an evolution is the last thing I want but i'm not against it.

I'd say fanfiction is for those who dream, but I've actually liked the ones that I've read up to this point. And that's not just Pokemon fanfics.

I've never read one, i was kind of being sarcastic although I think it would be awesome to write/draw my own Pokemon manga if i had the talents.

---

Anyway, i'm done talking about this now it's gotten tedious haha. Everybody has different opinions so that's that really.

**R?IDDl3R** · 10th April 2013, 4:43 AM

man

ill surely miss virgil bianca cameron stephan dino and katherine

as well as luke georgia and burgundy cuz there most likely not appearing anymore

**Caseydia** · 12th April 2013, 8:23 PM

Originally Posted by Haunter227

It amazes me how in the League, the only Pokemon to gain wins was Pikachu, Pignite, Scraggy and Krookodile.

If I had the League my way still having the same matches the writers chose, i'd have had it like this:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Trip:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Random Trainer:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Stephan:

Spoiler:- Ash vs Cameron:

I wish I was a writer, the Unova League had great ideas but executed them horribly. I hate to brag, but I've kept the same ideas as the writers and changed them into something which I personally believe is 10x better and would have at least satisfied people.

I'm so glad you don't write for the show.

I actually would have loved to see Trip being battled in the top 16 bracket and Bianca after battling a random codt, then Virgil. I can't stand Cameron or Stephan.

**Haunter227** · 12th April 2013, 8:30 PM

Originally Posted by Caseydia

I'm so glad you don't write for the show.

I actually would have loved to see Trip being battled in the top 16 bracket and Bianca after battling a random codt, then Virgil. I can't stand Cameron or Stephan.

lol.

Read the quote again, it's purposely the same opponents just with different pokemon. If i was making a wishlist like you, yes my league would be a LOT different.

**nuzamaki90** · 13th April 2013, 2:00 PM

When I first watched this episode, I didn't even notice that Pikachu was rolling around in the spa, that's really cute >.<

Weird how they used the Rival Destinies theme even though we've past that.

Still mad that Ash literally got cheated out of the League by dopey writers.

**MidnightMelody** · 13th April 2013, 2:00 PM

Wow this episode got way more hate then it should of. The battle was epic! Also Ash's current team is much weaker then his Sinnoh and even his Hoenn team. He should of trained more.

Loved the ending. It was pretty much a flashback to the Indigo league! Awesome epicsode!!!

Originally Posted by nuzamaki90

When I first watched this episode, I didn't even notice that Pikachu was rolling around in the spa, that's really cute >.<

Weird how they used the Rival Destinies theme even though we've past that.

Still mad that Ash literally got cheated out of the League by dopey writers.

Rival Destoinies song works better tbh

Besides Japanese sometimes uses older openings in their version

**yuoke** · 13th April 2013, 2:13 PM

They probably played rival destinies because it was the theme that played for the majority of the league stuff with ash and also about his rivals, while adventures in unova is.t really fitting for a flashback.

**MidnightMelody** · 13th April 2013, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by yuoke

They probably played rival destinies because it was the theme that played for the majority of the league stuff with ash and also about his rivals, while adventures in unova is.t really fitting for a flashback.

Plus they might not even have a full version of AinU yet XD

**yuoke** · 13th April 2013, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by MidnightMelody

Plus they might not even have a full version of AinU yet XD

I always though that they made the full version from the start, and then just played the cut version of it for the opening theme.

**MidnightMelody** · 13th April 2013, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by yuoke

I always though that they made the full version from the start, and then just played the cut version of it for the opening theme.

Maybe not really sure. I mean some movies never had the full op so I thought it was done while working on the movie

**jolteonjak** · 13th April 2013, 2:40 PM

What a joke! Why didn't Ash have Snivy use Attract? Worst league ever!

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