Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 161

Thread: How long until a Female Trainer wins the league?

  1. #76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Now you're putting words into people's mouths.
    Just a vibe I was getting. Sorry.
    岩根雅明=♡

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post

    I'm not being defensive. If you guys want that then i don't mind. I just think that it shouldn't matter. Do you understand? whether it be male or female as long as they provide growth for Ash then i'm for it.
    Read what you wrote to me and what you said about me and then tell me you weren't being defensive. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but some people would like Ash to have a competent female rival. There is nothing wrong with that. Will it affect the show? Would it turn out well if they tried that? Who knows? But it doesn't mean we can't want a competent female rival. This whole time you took what I said and put words into my mouth and it really made you come off as a far worse and actually quite whiny debater.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    Just a vibe I was getting. Sorry.
    I won't speak for everybody but when I said, I wanted a competent female rival, I meant one on Ash's level. I didn't mean she had to be a Paul and crush him every time they met.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    We don't mind him having a strong female rival, but it sometimes equals to someone with no personality outside of folding their arms. Well that's just me.
    What, like Paul?

    A character doesn't have to be serious and stoic to be strong. They just have to be skilled. In a case of a strong female rival for Ash, it has to be someone on his skill level, regardless of their personality. Bianca being ditzy and played for comedy is not what made her a weak female rival for Ash, it was that she was portrayed from start to finish as MUCH weaker than Ash and most other regular trainers on the show. Bianca didn't have to be "badass" in personality or fold her arms alot to be strong: she just needed to be skilled. Sadly, she wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    I'm not being defensive. If you guys want that then i don't mind.
    I'm sorry, but very clearly you do. Otherwise, you would have just left this thread after your first comment, rather than replying to other people's thoughts with "You're wrong!"
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 12th January 2013 at 5:03 AM.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    What, like Paul?

    A character doesn't have to be serious and stoic to be strong. They just have to be skilled. In a case of a strong female rival for Ash, it has to be someone on his skill level, regardless of their personality. Bianca being ditzy and played for comedy is not what made her a weak female rival for Ash, it was that she was portrayed from start to finish as MUCH weaker than Ash and most other regular trainers on the show. Bianca didn't have to be "badass" in personality or fold her arms alot to be strong: she just needed to be skilled. Sadly, she wasn't.
    Exactly. I don't know why Competent = Serious for most people (and why serious = robots but that's a different topic )

  5. #80

    Default

    There are some trainers that AREN'T skilled. Nothing wring with that right? I did make an assumption about characteristics so I apologize.
    岩根雅明=♡

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Exactly. I don't know why Competent = Serious for most people (and why serious = robots but that's a different topic )
    Yeah, I think 'serious' is the last word I would associate with Alder, the way he's been portrayed in the anime XD
    {Insert signature here}

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    There are some trainers that AREN'T skilled. Nothing wring with that right? I did make an assumption about characteristics so I apologize.
    In Burgundy's and Bianca's case, I think there is something wrong with that because they are supposed to be main rivals to Ash and Cilan.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeaussie37 View Post
    Yeah, I think 'serious' is the last word I would associate with Alder, the way he's been portrayed in the anime XD
    Yep! Great example!

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    I was more talking about Ash getting a competent female rival. She doesn't necessarily have to win. But if a girl did win the League, I am sure people will be happy. No need to get upset because someone wants something that you don't want or that you don't care about.
    I know that, and yet i just don't really care if he gets a male competent rival or female competent rival since i only care if they are strong and motivate Ash to become better since that's what he needs right now, and that's where you and i differ.

    It's not a matter of making something better. It's just for the variability. Just like all trainers aren't male and all coordinators aren't female, so actually seeing a female win the league shouldn't be farfetched at all. We can easily say someone in the Pokemon world has one the league and was female, but it's all about seeing it. Just like you were saying before about it having no impact on Ash, we can't say for sure since it hasn't happened. No not the fact that him seeing a girl win would somehow change him, that's ridiculous, but their interactions would be different and at the end of the day it's about the journey.
    Ok if it's about variability as you put it, then why does it matter if he has a male or female rival? Shouldn't you want him to have a good rival regardless of gender? So say a female does win, what exactly will that impact on him have that it hasn't already had on him with a male rival? could you explain that? What type of interactions could he have that he couldn't have with a male rival?
    It won't be enough because this girl has to be a stoic badass who has to be better at the guys at everything :-/
    Isn't that what cynthia is there for?

    The World God Only knows

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    In Burgundy's and Bianca's case, I think there is something wrong with that because they are supposed to be main rivals to Ash and Cilan.
    Bianca wasn't Ash's main rival, that was Trip. Her not being skilled is somewhat exusable. Disappointing that she never evolved past that, but excusable.

    Not so with Burgundy, since she's not only Cilan's main rival but his ONLY one. Starting out unskilled was fine, but she really SHOULD have grown in skill since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    why does it matter if he has a male or female rival? Shouldn't you want him to have a good rival regardless of gender? So say a female does win, what exactly will that impact on him have that it hasn't already had on him with a male rival? could you explain that? What type of interactions could he have that he couldn't have with a male rival?
    The big difference here is this: Ash has HAD good male rivals that have impacted him. He has NOT had any good female rivals that did this. The difference of him having a good rival regardless of gender is that if it's another good male one, it's been done before. If it's a female one, then it's something SLIGHTLY different.

    Yes, it may just be similar to the male rivals from the past with the only difference being that it's a female, but that's at least SOME sort of change.

    Let me put it this way: would you be surprised if Gary returned? Or would you be surprised if Gary returned and had gotten a sex change?

    See? It's the exact same situation in both scenarios (Gary returns), yet the gender aspect makes a world of difference in how you react to it.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 12th January 2013 at 5:16 AM.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    I know that, and yet i just don't really care if he gets a male competent rival or female competent rival since i only care if they are strong and motivate Ash to become better since that's what he needs right now, and that's where you and i differ.


    Ok if it's about variability as you put it, then why does it matter if he has a male or female rival? Shouldn't you want him to have a good rival regardless of gender? So say a female does win, what exactly will that impact on him have that it hasn't already had on him with a male rival? could you explain that? What type of interactions could he have that he couldn't have with a male rival?
    And there's nothing wrong with differing opinions but you going on the defensive and saying I am wrong and not smart and don't know how to debate and whatever else you said just because I want something that you don't care about made you look really stupid (and wrong ). Did you ever think that having a female rival would be something different. Females and males aren't the same in case you haven't realized already.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Bianca wasn't Ash's main rival, that was Trip. Her not being skilled is somewhat exusable. Disappointing that she never evolved past that, but excusable.

    Not so with Burgundy, since she's not only Cilan's main rival but his ONLY one. Starting out unskilled was fine, but she really SHOULD have grown in skill since then.
    I was more talking about Bianca being one of Ash's most important rivals (Trip, Stephan and Bianca). But if we're narrowing it down to main rivals, then yes, that would be Trip. My mistake. But yeah, it was disappointing that Bianca didn't develop more.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    And there's nothing wrong with differing opinions but you going on the defensive and saying I am wrong and not smart and don't know how to debate and whatever else you said just because I want something that you don't care about made you look really stupid (and wrong ). Did you ever think that having a female rival would be something different. Females and males aren't the same in case you haven't realized already
    First off, you accuse me of bashing you and i told you i wasn't. I was criticizing you and you then you report me? it's clear you can't seem to handle someone who doesn't agree with what you are saying and cover it up with "bashing". I didn't bash or insult or ridicule you. I just felt that you weren't giving much of an argument as to why he should have a female rival rather than just having someone who is strong regardless of what gender. I didn't say you were wrong or that you were not smart, but i see you are quick to throw around insults. Ok, answer me what a female rival will offer him that a male rival hasn't already done?

    The big difference here is this: Ash has HAD good male rivals that have impacted him. He has NOT had any good female rivals that did this. The difference of him having a good rival regardless of gender is that if it's another good male one, it's been done before. If it's a female one, then it's something SLIGHTLY different.

    Yes, it may just be similar to the male rivals from the past with the only difference being that it's a female, but that's at least SOME sort of change.

    Let me put it this way: would you be surprised if Gary returned? Or would you be surprised if Gary returned and had gotten a sex change?

    See? It's the exact same situation in both scenarios (Gary returns), yet the gender aspect makes a world of difference in how you react to it.
    Slightly different? how is it different if you are just switching genders and doing the same thing? how is that different, it's not, it's nothing special. Just because it's a female and you feel that there should be more to impact him? Why can't they just impact him in a different way or do they even have to be trainers to accomplish this? Either way you guys would still be complaining. I still don't see how "different" this would be as opposed to just having males that are already impacting him. If they want to have more females impact him then ok, i just don't find it necessary because it shouldn't be.
    Last edited by zeno48; 12th January 2013 at 5:29 AM.

    The World God Only knows

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    First off, you accuse me of bashing you and i told you i wasn't. I was criticizing you and you then you report me? it's clear you can't seem to handle someone who doesn't agree with what you are saying and cover it up with "bashing". I didn't bash or insult or ridicule you. I just felt that you weren't giving much of an argument as to why he should have a female rival rather than just having someone who is strong regardless of what gender. I didn't say you were wrong or that you were not smart, but i see you are quick to throw around insults. Ok, answer me what a female rival will offer him that a male rival hasn't already done?
    But you criticized me for no good reason. I stated I want something to happen. There is no need for you to start a debate or argument with me because of that. And I really feel that some of the things you said were offensive (my argument being baseless even though it wasn't an argument, people who don't agree with you being wrong or not smart as you put it, saying I didn't know how to debate). I could handle people with differing opinions but you came off as nasty and I expected better from you.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Dragon Village
    Posts
    2,247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    Ok if it's about variability as you put it, then why does it matter if he has a male or female rival? Shouldn't you want him to have a good rival regardless of gender? So say a female does win, what exactly will that impact on him have that it hasn't already had on him with a male rival? could you explain that? What type of interactions could he have that he couldn't have with a male rival?
    If Ash was a person that was just one and done, no it wouldn't matter. But he's done this a handful of times and it's not a bad thing to wonder how it would be for Ash challenging a female rival. No it doesn't matter male or female in terms of who's stronger, but it's just something that hasn't happened. There's no ulterior purpose or big revelation, just for the sake of it happening. Change is inevitable in anything, including Pokemon.

    (credit goes to Skiyomi)

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Bianca wasn't Ash's main rival, that was Trip. Her not being skilled is somewhat exusable. Disappointing that she never evolved past that, but excusable.

    Excusable but nothing more, wish she'd gotten better rather than just that win against Trip.

    Not so with Burgundy, since she's not only Cilan's main rival but his ONLY one. Starting out unskilled was fine, but she really SHOULD have grown in skill since then.

    Burgundy really wasn't going to grow in skill level so long as she never accepted that Cilan was better than herself.

    The big difference here is this: Ash has HAD good male rivals that have impacted him. He has NOT had any good female rivals that did this. The difference of him having a good rival regardless of gender is that if it's another good male one, it's been done before. If it's a female one, then it's something SLIGHTLY different.

    Yes, it may just be similar to the male rivals from the past with the only difference being that it's a female, but that's at least SOME sort of change.

    I'd totally go for a female main rival, something a bit different. I enjoy it that they at least try to switch things up a bit from time to time.

    Let me put it this way: would you be surprised if Gary returned? Or would you be surprised if Gary returned and had gotten a sex change?

    See? It's the exact same situation in both scenarios (Gary returns), yet the gender aspect makes a world of difference in how you react to it.

    hahaha oh my. I'm, not quite sure how to respond to that!
    Comments in bold.
    {Insert signature here}

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post


    Slightly different? how is it different if you are just switching genders and doing the same thing? how is that different, it's not, it's nothing special. Just because it's a female and you feel that there should be more to impact him? Why can't they just impact him in a different way or do they even have to be trainers to accomplish this? Either way you guys would still be complaining. I still don't see how "different" this would be as opposed to just having males that are already impacting him. If they want to have more females impact him then ok, i just don't find it necessary because it shouldn't be.
    Females are different than males in many ways and you are being oblivious to this.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeaussie37 View Post
    Burgundy really wasn't going to grow in skill level so long as she never accepted that Cilan was better than herself.
    OK, stop right there. Burgundy DID accept he was better, in the Club Battle, and in general admittance that she's C-Class and he's A-Class. That should just drive her to become more skilled so that she can become better than Cilan. Instead, she's inexplicably stuck at the same skill level: still at C-Class and still getting beaten in the first round of every tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    it's clear you can't seem to handle someone who doesn't agree with what you are saying and cover it up with "bashing".
    Hyp-hyp-hyp-hooray for hypocrisy!

    I just felt that you weren't giving much of an argument as to why he should have a female rival rather than just having someone who is strong regardless of what gender.
    An argument that you started for no real reason.

    I didn't say you were wrong or that you were not smart
    A person who agreed with you and you responded "Finally, someone smart!" The implication you're making is obvious.

    Slightly different? how is it different if you are just switching genders and doing the same thing?
    Because genders are different. Don't tell me you haven't noticed?

    Just because it's a female and you feel that there should be more to impact him?
    It's not about how it impacts Ash, it's about how it impacts the audience.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 12th January 2013 at 5:39 AM.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gohan5 View Post
    If Ash was a person that was just one and done, no it wouldn't matter. But he's done this a handful of times and it's not a bad thing to wonder how it would be for Ash challenging a female rival. No it doesn't matter male or female in terms of who's stronger, but it's just something that hasn't happened. There's no ulterior purpose or big revelation, just for the sake of it happening. Change is inevitable in anything, including Pokemon.
    Change is inevitable, but that doesn't mean it will be good or we can't point out flaws. Aside from that good comments, i have nothing else to add.

    The World God Only knows

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    OK, stop right there. Burgundy DID accept he was better, in the Club Battle, and in general admittance that she's C-Class and he's A-Class. That should just drive her to become more skilled so that she can become better than Cilan. Instead, she's inexplicably stuck at the same skill level: still at C-Class and still getting beaten in the first round of every tournament.
    She briefly did, but a) she appeared multiple times after that and nothing of the sort came up, she was same old same old. She was definitely still in the mindset that she was superior and b) she did absolutely nothing about it anyway.

    Hopefully both Burgundy and Georgia show up at least once between now and the start of the XY anime and we have some closure on those two rivalries. That, however, is another topic for another time.

    I don't really see it as a big deal whether Ash's main rival is male or female, but no doubt it would be nice to do that at least once.
    Last edited by pokeaussie37; 12th January 2013 at 5:37 AM.
    {Insert signature here}

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    Change is inevitable, but that doesn't mean it will be good or we can't point out flaws. Aside from that good comments, i have nothing else to add.
    That's true but isn't it better Pokémon takes risks and tries to take chances at all?

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Hyp-hyp-hyp-hooray for hypocrisy!
    I didn't report him though. That's the difference and i'm not being disrespectful, i'm just debating and giving my thoughts like everyone else.

    An argument that you started for no real reason.
    Well couldn't you also say that all arguments are started for no real purpose, just to debate?
    A person who agreed with you and you responded "Finally, someone smart!" The implication you're making is obvious.
    or they could have actually said something that was smart no? Not because i agree with them.
    Because genders are different. Don't tell me you haven't noticed?
    That's not answering the question. Give examples.
    It's not about how it impacts Ash, it's about how it impacts the audience.
    and exactly how different would that impact be if it was a female?
    You are being disrespectful honestly and that's why I reported you
    I'm not, i was just debating you because i didn't agree with what you said and you quickly turned around and started accusing me of "bashing" and then resorted to the same rudeness that you accuse me off.
    Maybe you didn't report me because there was nothing to report
    I wasn't saying i would have or that i want too. Unless anyone else can tell me that i'm being out of line.

    And you made it clear that you were calling people who didn't agree with you not smart. Hence you saying, "finally a smart person."
    I wasn't implying you were stupid though. Sorry if it came out that way. He just made a good comment, i guess i should have worded that differently but still that wasn't a jab at you.
    Last edited by zeno48; 12th January 2013 at 5:53 AM.

    The World God Only knows

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zeno48 View Post
    I didn't report them, that's the difference and i'm not being disrespectful, i'm just debating.


    Well couldn't you also say that all arguments are started for no real purpose, just to debate?

    or they could have actually said something that was smart no? Not because i agree with them.
    You are being disrespectful honestly and that's why I reported you and Pierce brought up good examples of how you were being rude. Maybe you didn't report me because there was nothing to report. Some arguments and debates have reason. This one was you getting all defensive because you didn't like what I said. And you made it clear that you were calling people who didn't agree with you not smart. Hence you saying, "finally a smart person." But like I said, I'm done with you and I don't even know why you responded to me anyway.

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Deep Ocean
    Posts
    2,106

    Default

    Bianca actually developed. She managed to collect eight badges before the league starts, got to Top 64. This is her first league and she doesn't have plot armour, unlike Ash, so kudos to her for making it so far.

    I'd like a funny but competent female rival. Hopefully the next XY series will introduce a funny, yet competent rival :3

    Credits to Sworn Metalhead

    ASB Squad

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Crazy Town, Land of Insanity
    Posts
    4,294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OceanicLanturn View Post
    Bianca actually developed. She managed to collect eight badges before the league starts, got to Top 64. This is her first league and she doesn't have plot armour, unlike Ash, so kudos to her for making it so far.

    I'd like a funny but competent female rival. Hopefully the next XY series will introduce a funny, yet competent rival :3
    Hum, as long as it's a "she"I'm fine with it :P

    Though, a funyy competent Ruival we haven't had since Barry, so I would like another one.

  24. #99

    Default

    Remind me when Pokemon was Shoujo? Oh wait, it never was. Why do you CARE the gender of who wins a Pokemon League? Assunta never had any personality and never even met Ash+co prior to that so her winning would just be as pathetically written as the guy who won Kanto, and the one who won at Johto. Cynthia's the Sinnoh Champion, so females DO win Leagues. Quit turning this into a gender thing and open your eyes. No character is entitled to anything in this Anime. Wanna know what that means? Female characters aren't entited or deserving of a League win, since they never earned it. If Tobias was a girl, he would still be a major asspull character written by the writers to stop Ash winning.

    Even if a female character wins, the ONLY reason you should like it is if its a rival, and not some random person who Ash never battled, met, or WE never even heard of up till the point she wins. If one of Ash's female rivals wins, that's good. NOT because they are female (that's a pathetic reason to like it) but because its a character we've seen from near the beginning, they would have a personality, and they would have shown battle-feats unlike any expies of the guy who one at Kanto, the guy who one Johto, or Virgil. So long as the character who wins is a rival, I really don't care about their gender and neither should the rest of you. Had, say, Nando beat Ash in a really close battle and won the Sinnoh League, then that would have been better than seeing Darkrai and Latios curbstomp their way to victory. If Bianca won the Unova League, I would be glad that she won rather than a league rival with no real personality who would show up at then last minute to win (Virgil, Tobias, and Tyson come to mind. Ritchie was basically Ash with a brain, so saying he had no personality would be saying Ash doesn't). Her being female is the LAST thing on my mind. The fact she debut in episode 13, we've seen her fail but manage to work on her weaknesses, and trained up her Pokemon, would be the only thing I actually care about.

    In short: Gender is trival. The gender of whoever wins a League is not important. How comes 2 of the 3 Grand Festivals were won by girls? The only one won by a guy was Robert...who had no personality and was basically 95% filler. Even at the GF, Nando was the only guy in the semi-finals. Oh, so you guys complain that Leagues are male-dominated yet have no problem with the female-dominated Contests...seems equal, huh. Not that I care about the guys at the GF, since I don't care about gender roles and gender outright in the anime. But you cannot deny that Pokemon Contests being female-dominated (To recap, the only major male coordinators were Drew and Nando. Harley could be considered one. Kenny isn't since he lost in the appeals round of his GF and shows little battle/contest-feats compared to the others) is no different to Pokemon Leagues being basically male-dominated. Remember, Kenny is technically Dawn's ONLY male rival. In fact, Nando was more of a rival to Zoey than to Ash or Dawn since outside of Nando's debut, he and Dawn never battled once.
    Last edited by Lunanight; 12th January 2013 at 12:47 PM.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    That way
    Posts
    6,779

    Default

    How long until a female wins the league? Well the only and best advice is to wait patiently, wait patiently and it will come.

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •