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Thread: Kacaw!!!

  1. #1

    Default Kacaw!!!

    Quick Overview:


    Remember back when Dugtrio was in NU? Yeah, those were the days. Back then, you could make a team full of Normal and/or Flying types and use Dugtrio to remove problematic Pokemon before sweeping. Well, Dugtrio's gone, Trapinch kinda sucks, and Diglett is hilariously bad, so bird spam is a bit harder. But in the spirit of BRAVE BIRD EVERYTHING, I decided to just throw together a quick team with a bunch of birds and a bit of support. This team is technically really terrible, but its got enough ridiculous amounts of bird offense that it's undefeated on the Pokemon Showdown! NU ladder so far (which isn't a huge deal since ladder players tend to suck, but meh). So here's the team. KACAW!!!




    Torterra @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed

    Torterra is probably the one Pokemon on the team that doesn't do too much at all, but it's kinda important as well. Bird offense is all about blowing holes in stuff, and so Stealth Rock is pretty important for this team. Of all the SR users out there, I choose Torterra mainly for its ability to take random Rock and Electric attacks for the team. At the very least, it keeps Scarf Raichu or Rotom-A from sweeping me by spamming Thunderbolt. Bullet Seed is a pretty cool move over Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb since I can bring down an opposing lead Golem with just 2 hits and keep it from getting SR up. Besides that, Earthquake and Leech Seed are standard for STAB and a bit of recovery, respectively. I'm considering running Rock Slide over Leech Seed, though, so that Flying types don't have a field day with Torterra.



    Braviary @ Choice Band
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Superpower
    - Return
    - U-turn

    CB Braviary just kills stuff. Seriously. Many games just consist of me tossing around Returns and Brave Birds until Braviary dies, and then cleaning up the mess with Swellow or something. I rarely use Superpower, but every once in a while I can kill off a Bastiodon or Probopass (Regirock is still a jerk, though). I'm kinda glad Defiant got released, since Keen Eye and Sheer Force were pretty much useless. Defiant really helps when some guy thinks it's a good idea to throw Intimidate Luxray in front of Braviary, or when I get a random SDef drop from a Psychic or Focus Blast. I didn't really care to get creative with the EVs, so I just have enough speed here to beat base 70s, with a little extra bulk. I might change to an Adamant nature with max speed, since the extra power would give me a shot at 2HKOing Alomomola (or guarantee the 2HKO after SR).



    Dodrio @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Pursuit
    - Toxic

    Oh man, I love Scarf Dodrio so much. I really, really do. Dodrio is so fast that it can afford to run an Adamant nature and still outspeed pretty much every relevant threat. Just to put his offensive prowess into perspective, an Adamant Dodrio is a little stronger and faster than a Jolly Braviary, so I usually choose Dodrio over Braviary for a Scarf user and just let Braviary kill stuff with a Band. Brave Bird and Return is pretty much all I use, except I think I used Pursuit once to kill a Kadabra back when Dugtrio was still NU. Toxic is pretty much the filler to end all fillers. It's usually pretty useless, but I can occasionally catch an unexpecting Alomomola with it, which is kinda my best way of beating that stupid fish.



    Swellow @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
    - Protect

    Where would a bird team be without Swellow? This is usually going to be the Pokemon I go to to just kill of random stuff and sweep late game. It's also the go-to Pokemon for when I'm certain that the opponent is just going to throw Sleep Powder or something at me, provided the Toxic Orb has activated of course. Swellow's Facade is ridiculously strong. There's been so many times I've just thrown it out in front of a problematic Pokemon, prayed for a OHKO, and nailed it. Bad ladder players don't predict with switches too well, so U-turn isn't always that useful, but it helps at times. Keep in mind that Guts means that Swellow can just use U-turn with an effective Choice Band boost, which can help wear down things here and there. I've used Quick Attack over Protect, but I like the ability to get Guts up against anything.



    Drifblim @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Atk / 44 Def / 212 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Destiny Bond

    This set is so good. It doesn't always sweep stuff, but it usually gets at least one kill and burns something important. Drifblim's base 80 Atk stat isn't huge, but it's enough to do a lot of damage with a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics. Substitute really helps in easing prediction and keeping stuff like Alomomola from poisoning me, and it lets me know if its safe to start spamming Acrobatics or if I should get ready to take the opponent down with me via Destiny Bond. The Smogon analysis recommends running 200 speed EVs to beat positive natured +1 base 100s with the Unburden boost, but I run a few extra to beat Scarf Zebstrika so that I can take it down with Destiny Bond.



    Wartortle @ Eviolite
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Seismic Toss
    - Haze

    As you can imagine, with a team full of birds, I hate having SR on my side of the field. Spinning in NU really sucks, and Wartortle can at least guarantee that I spin at least once with Foresight. Besides that, it doesn't really do much. However, it is kinda nice to have some death fodder once Wartortle has done its job. That sounds weird, but often the other Pokemon on my team are just too important to get rid of, so I can just sack Wartortle, get in a bird, and steal the momentum back. That isn't to say that Wartortle has been completely useless outside of spinning. Wartortle serves as my only Ice and Water resist, so I can switch it in to take a hit and occasionally force switches. I use Seismic Toss for more consistent damage and to keep things like Gardevoir from setting up Substitutes that Scald won't kill in one hit. I can also throw out a Seismic Toss on something like Samurott so that it will be weakened enough for something else on my team to KO and start sweeping.


    So yeah, that's about it. This team is honestly pretty bad as far as synergy goes, but the offensive pressure can win games on its own. I'd seriously recommend you steal this team and try it out. It's really fun.

  2. #2
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    I'm no expert at NU(or any tier lol), just throwing some ideas out there. Maybe golurk over torterra to keep the stealth rocks up. Can beat Golem with no guard dynamic punch and some confusion hax. Maybe replace wartortle with torkoal to spin and possibly get a shell smash sweep lol.

  3. #3
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    So, I've used Wartortle successfully in OU before with this set:
    Wartortle @ Eviolite
    252 HP/whateveryouwanthere
    Impish
    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Yawn
    -Foresight (never thought of using this before tbh)/ Counter (more fun ;D)

    So while NU is different, this set could still work. Scald burns to allow for easier sweeps in the future, while Yawn may force a switch or straight up cripple an opponent. I generally ran Counter (mostly as filler) to mess with Attack sweepers, which was funny, but Foresight is good too.

    Besides that, your team looks good. Maybe 4 Atk EVs on Torterra as opposed to Sp. Def (what would those achieve?).


    This signature has been brought to you by Mochi10, thanks a bunch c:

  4. #4

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    Hey, thanks for the advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkbeat View Post
    I'm no expert at NU(or any tier lol), just throwing some ideas out there. Maybe golurk over torterra to keep the stealth rocks up. Can beat Golem with no guard dynamic punch and some confusion hax. Maybe replace wartortle with torkoal to spin and possibly get a shell smash sweep lol.
    Golurk over Torterra is a pretty cool idea. I chose Torterra for the bulk, but the fact that he doesn't do that much for the team kinda annoys me. Golurk would also maintain the Electric and Rock immunity/resistance, which is great for the team. As far as Torkoal > Wartortle goes, I can try it, but I probably won't end up keeping it. This team really needs Stealth Rock absolutely gone, which only Wartortle can completely guarantee due to Foresight. I'm also not a big fan of the SS Torkoal set since it's hard to set up and is too slow to sweep most teams even with Shell Smash.

    I'm also going to give something like Cradily a try over Torterra since this team is ridiculously weak to Alomomola, which Golurk wouldn't be able to help with. That'll give me something to try out tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soperman View Post
    So, I've used Wartortle successfully in OU before with this set:
    Wartortle @ Eviolite
    252 HP/whateveryouwanthere
    Impish
    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Yawn
    -Foresight (never thought of using this before tbh)/ Counter (more fun ;D)

    So while NU is different, this set could still work. Scald burns to allow for easier sweeps in the future, while Yawn may force a switch or straight up cripple an opponent. I generally ran Counter (mostly as filler) to mess with Attack sweepers, which was funny, but Foresight is good too.

    Besides that, your team looks good. Maybe 4 Atk EVs on Torterra as opposed to Sp. Def (what would those achieve?).
    Yawn is illegal with Foresight + Seismic Toss, but it is a cool move and it would be something to try if I decide to run Scald. The main reason I like Seismic Toss + Haze is just because it keeps most opposing Pokemon from setting up on me. As far as Torterra's EVs go, I could move them to Atk. Putting them in SpD doesn't really achieve anything besides adding like .01% more special bulk or something, so it really doesn't matter where they go.

  5. #5
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    Woah. Nice team. Seems crap on Paper but Works well in practice. Mainly Because Flying type is such a great Neutral STAB, and Most Teams don't even bother to try and check them. They just throw their Stone Edger/Bolt Beamer at them.

    That being said I spotted a single core issue.




    Having a purely Physical Team without any Special/Psychic moves around hurts your cause. Plowing it though with Superpower sadly doesn't work either. It will Laugh off Brave Birds after a will-o-wisp to Ad Infinitum. All in all a General All round Nuisance. Swellow can avoid the W-o-W, but.... meh Facade does a Pitiful 30% at best with Guts+STAB.

    A Weezing/Lapras standard Defensive Core will cause major headaches to your team. Lapras with Ice Beam coming off that Base 85 SpAtk even without much Investment OHKOes 4/5 in your team. Wartortle Resists (not even that if it's the SpD bulky bolt/beamer) but can't do anything about the situation apart from Spamming Seismic Tosses. Your best option in that case is Revenging it with Superpower or Destiny Bonding with Drifblim. That's about it.

    I couldn't come up with any replacements that will help those issues without ruining your 'Kacaw' Flavour. My 1st suggestion would have been a Calm Minding Synchronize Musharna, but it goes against your Fast and Furious pace and don't see what it can suitably replace.
    Last edited by Soul_Fly; 12th January 2013 at 11:59 AM.
    Feel Free to Engage a certain Soul_Fly on Pokemon Online/Pokemon Showdown!
    You'll likely end up getting free ladder points due to my constant tendency to test out gimmicky teams.

    LAWL. Lucario RULEZZ

  6. #6

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    Sorry, this is a late response, I just haven't had a ton of time for testing lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul_Fly View Post
    Woah. Nice team. Seems crap on Paper but Works well in practice. Mainly Because Flying type is such a great Neutral STAB, and Most Teams don't even bother to try and check them. They just throw their Stone Edger/Bolt Beamer at them.

    That being said I spotted a single core issue.




    Having a purely Physical Team without any Special/Psychic moves around hurts your cause. Plowing it though with Superpower sadly doesn't work either. It will Laugh off Brave Birds after a will-o-wisp to Ad Infinitum. All in all a General All round Nuisance. Swellow can avoid the W-o-W, but.... meh Facade does a Pitiful 30% at best with Guts+STAB.

    A Weezing/Lapras standard Defensive Core will cause major headaches to your team. Lapras with Ice Beam coming off that Base 85 SpAtk even without much Investment OHKOes 4/5 in your team. Wartortle Resists (not even that if it's the SpD bulky bolt/beamer) but can't do anything about the situation apart from Spamming Seismic Tosses. Your best option in that case is Revenging it with Superpower or Destiny Bonding with Drifblim. That's about it.

    I couldn't come up with any replacements that will help those issues without ruining your 'Kacaw' Flavour. My 1st suggestion would have been a Calm Minding Synchronize Musharna, but it goes against your Fast and Furious pace and don't see what it can suitably replace.
    Lol, "Seems crap on Paper but Works well in practice". That is pretty much the perfect description of this team.

    I agree that Weezing is a huge problem. It's not as huge of a problem as Alomomola since it's 2HKOd by Braviary's Brave Bird (53.89 - 63.77%) and Swellow's Facade (48.8 - 57.78%) 2HKO Weezing all or most of the time, but the fact that it switches in so easily on almost everything and tosses around Will-O-Wisps really annoys me, and I can't just lull it into a false sense of security with Dodrio and poison it like I can with Alomomola. That said, I've come up with a really weird solution lately that I've been testing, and so far it's been doing pretty well.

    Exeggutor @ Leftovers
    Trait: Harvest
    EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 68 SAtk / 84 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic
    - Synthesis

    This is a really weird set, but it does what I need it to do. I'm currently running this over Torterra. Harvest + Lum Berry is excellent since it turns Exeggutor into a nearly perfect status sponge. Usually if I can switch in, take a status move, and force a switch, I'll have my Lum Berry back by the time I have to switch back out again. This lets Exeggutor switch into Weezing and Alomomola more effectively since it won't mind their status moves. The EVs here let Exeggutor outspeed uninvested base 65's (namely Alomomola herself), and I have enough SpA here to OHKO 252/0 Weezing 100% of the time with Psychic so that I can dispose of it without having to worry about it hitting me with Sludge Bomb first. The rest is piled into Exeggutor's physical bulk, its stronger side. Synthesis is obviously there to keep Exeggutor around longer. I have considered Rest + Chesto Berry instead, but I don't like the possibility of needing to heal up and possibly having no Chesto Berry to relieve the sleep.

    That does mean that I won't have Stealth Rock, so I've been using this over Wartortle in testing.

    Armaldo @ Leftovers
    Trait: Battle Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Rock Blast
    - Aqua Tail
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock

    It doesn't get past spin blockers very easily, but I usually get a spin off just fine. Aqua Tail > X-Scissor looks weird, but it lets me 2HKO standard Golurk sets, while Armaldo usually survives even CB Golurk's Stone Edge after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. It prefer Rock Blast too so that SubBU Braviary can't just PP stall Stone Edge effortlessly and set up all over Armaldo. Just kind of a jack of all trades here, spinning and set up SR.

    This obviously makes me much more Rock weak, but I'm a lot more worried about stuff like Alomomola and Weezing than Regirock and Golem, and Exeggutor has been doing an okay job of handling them so far. Still testing though, so any further advice will be appreciated!

  7. #7
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    Firstly, Flying is a big threat in NU so any decent player will have it checked, and, to be honest, there's very little you can do against bulky rock types. I'd start by getting rid of some of those Flying types. Trust me, Brave Birding everything is not the answer.

    Firstly, Torterra, as you've found out, kinda sucks as a SRer. You say you want to have an electric and rock resistance, well, duh, most decent NU Stealth Rock users have just that. Golem and Golurk for example. Ever heard of them? Your team is also dismantled by many strong electric attackers, most notably Rotom-F that run hidden power grass. As long as it avoids dodrio, it literally 6-0s your team. Other pokemon such as Electabuzz, Electrode and Rotom-S are massive threats too. Since pokemon such as this benefit a lot from wish, I'd try to kill two birds with one stone (no pun intended) and stick a Specially Defensive Lickiliky over one of your Flying Types. Probably Drifblim, since it's the most useless, as much as a one-hit surprise that first Acrobatics is.

    You also need a decent Special Attacker who can help remove Rock Types threatening your team. I'd recommend Exeggutor, since it gives you a decent switch in to Sawk (make Exeggutor fairly bulky though) and doesn't augment your Electric weakness. I'd replace this over another one of your fliers, probably Swellow, since it isn't as effective in the metagame anymore. Finally, I'd consider changing Braviary's set to a Sub Bulk Up set, since it's a tough threat to deal with and allows Braviary to deal with some of its counters. Besides, one Bulk Up gives you equal power to a CB. Your choice though

    Oh, yeah, and don't consider using Armaldo or Torkoal on this team. The SR weakness sucks on a team like this and, well, Torkoal is just awful in general.

    TL;DR

    Torterra > Golem / Golurk (recommended Golurk)
    SDefensive Lickilicky > Drifblim
    Exeggutor > Swellow

    Ice Cold Fire

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