Predictions for the end

[ansem the wise]

And no, you don't have to obtain every Pokemon. Completing the national dex exempts the event-exclusive Pokemon. AND IMO, with Wi-Fi trading, it is now easier than ever to complete it if one chooses to do so. in Gen I, there was no legit way to get a Mew outside of real-life events, which were far less widespread than they are nowadays. And in Gen II, it was impossible to complete since Celebi was never released outside of Japan and, at the time, game carts of different languages couldn't interact with eachother. And yes, it does suck that some people don't have access to Wi-Fi. But for the millions of other fans, it has been a welcome addition to get fans to interact more and play with players across the globe.

dont forget what pokemons's catchphrase has been since day 1.
    Spoiler:

Show Spoiler

 
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...lish_motto.png
 

and yeah, you have the point about the wifi thing but, its "catch em all" not "gotta trade em all".

***The fact that the one time the credits roll is after the E4 is that this is what the game makers see as the core game, the adventure from the start to the E4/Champion. They see that not just as the main portion of the game, but also likely what is in continuity for the rest of the series. That is why Gen 5 tried to make the game a bit more linear so younger players, who might give up if they get frustrated getting lost in a Confusing Cave or NeverEnding Route, would still be able to get to the end of the main game.

While you have a point about the main game, but that is mostly because most kids would never see the end of the game if they made it that they had to complete the dex.
And you said this anyways.

Pokemon is not a game you can "beat" or "complete".*** The game does not suddenly end and then you suddenly start over from the beginning anew as if nothing ever happened.

so after the game ends is when the reaf fun begins is what you're saying, right? well what is there to do? lets see.....1 beat the battle tower (or that game's equivalent to it) 2 beat the pokemon contests (or that games equivalent to it) and oh yeah complete the dex.

[randomspot555]

dont forget what pokemons's catchphrase has been since day 1.
    Spoiler:

Show Spoiler

 
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/medi...lish_motto.png
 

*eyeroll*

That catchphrase has long since been retired, and has never appeared in Japanese media at all. The JP version is simply "Get Pokemon!".

and yeah, you have the point about the wifi thing but, its "catch em all" not "gotta trade em all".

Which, again, has never been possible. Sometimes the marketing folks aren't exactly in sync with the people who make the games. The game makers artificially limit the number of obtainable Pokemon in the games. It was never Pokemon's intention to make every single Pokemon personally catchable to every trainer who owns one game cart. There have always been Pokemon you'd have to trade for, either to obtain at all or evolve or attend an event.

While you have a point about the main game, but that is mostly because most kids would never see the end of the game if they made it that they had to complete the dex.

But they don't have to complete the dex because that isn't the main point of the game!!!! It never has been and to shift the focus away from "Going on an adventure with your favorite PokePals" to "complete this task because we say so" is a step in the wrong direction.

And you said this anyways.

so after the game ends is when the reaf fun begins is what you're saying, right?

For some people, sure. I'm sure other people put down the game and go do other things.

well what is there to do? lets see.....1 beat the battle tower (or that game's equivalent to it) 2 beat the pokemon contests (or that games equivalent to it) and oh yeah complete the dex.

So you admit that completing the dex is entirely optional and is in no way the "main" or "primary" goal of Pokemon? Cool! then we're on the same page!

[ansem the wise]

*eyeroll*

That catchphrase has long since been retired, and has never appeared in Japanese media at all. The JP version is simply "Get Pokemon!".

(this screams "i cant think of a good comback")

Which, again, has never been possible. Sometimes the marketing folks aren't exactly in sync with the people who make the games. The game makers artificially limit the number of obtainable Pokemon in the games. It was never Pokemon's intention to make every single Pokemon personally catchable to every trainer who owns one game cart. There have always been Pokemon you'd have to trade for, either to obtain at all or evolve or attend an event

but originally, you could catch the majority by yourself and trade for the minority, its getting on the verge where the scale will be tipped and we will be trading for the majority.
and online no less, which totally goes against gamefreak's goal of human interaction. (which is (supposedly) why they incorperated trading in the first place).

But they don't have to complete the dex because that isn't the main point of the game!!!! It never has been and to shift the focus away from "Going on an adventure with your favorite PokePals" to "complete this task because we say so" is a step in the wrong direction.

come now, we all know that Oak sent ust to complete the pokemon encyclopedia for his research. (why else was your rival bragging about the number of pokemon he cought, if we were not supposed to surpass him?)

For some people, sure. I'm sure other people put down the game and go do other things.

mice and men.
you said yourself that they are making the story easier cuz kids wouuld get lost in a cave and give up.

So you admit that completing the dex is entirely optional and is in no way the "main" or "primary" goal of Pokemon? Cool! then we're on the same page!

my, my.

question wich of the listed is the hardest and the most rewarding?
and i refer again to the logo "gotta catch them all".

[randomspot555]

(this screams "i cant think of a good comback")

If your soul source of "the goal is to catch Pokemon!!!!" is the English catchphrase of the games for the first two generations, then great. But the games themselves don't reflect that reality. The anime doesn't reflect it. The mangas don't reflect it. Pokemon has been and always has been about going on an adventure with Pokemon, not about a specific task. It is nice you enjoy this specific task, but it is by no means the primary or main goal of Pokmeon.

but originally, you could catch the majority by yourself and trade for the minority, its getting on the verge where the scale will be tipped and we will be trading for the majority.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Trading is a good thing. And it really is only "trading for the majority" if you got into Pokemon yesterday. Anybody who got in during the fourth generation had opportunities to obtain all of the event exclusive Pokemon, and Plat/HG/SS had absolutely huge numbers of Pokemon that could be captured within them. Between those 3 games, every Legendary Pokemon that isn't an event exclusive can be caught and each starter Pokemon can be obtained.

and online no less, which totally goes against gamefreak's goal of human interaction. (which is (supposedly) why they incorperated trading in the first place).

You're still interacting with humans if it is online. It just means you are no longer limited to the people within a 2 foot radius of you.

come now, we all know that Oak sent ust to complete the pokemon encyclopedia for his research. (why else was your rival bragging about the number of pokemon he cought, if we were not supposed to surpass him?)

Do the credits role after you complete the dex in Gen I? Because I thought they rolled after you beat Blue, the Champion and your rival?

You surpass him by defeating him as Champion, not by dex completion. You completing the dex is an absolutely meaningless goal. Its something some people enjoy, and I'm not disputing if you personally like it or if you personally feel its the main goal for your playing. But the games themselves place their priority elsewhere.

You are penalized for not completing the gyms and the E4. You literally can't advance to the rest of the game without doing that. But you are not penalized ever for not completing the entire Pokedex.

mice and men.

Yes, how dare people play Pokemon differently than you! Please tell us the "correct" and "proper" way to play Pokemon.

you said yourself that they are making the story easier cuz kids wouuld get lost in a cave and give up.

It isn't easier. Linear!=easy. It just means shortening some of the never-ending routes which do nothing but irritate people. There's a difference between a genuine challenge and just frustrating obstacles. Whitney's Miltank is a genuine challenge. That stupid snow route in Sinnoh is just frustrating.

question wich of the listed is the hardest and the most rewarding?

Its very hard, but not at all very rewarding outside of a personal goal.

and i refer again to the logo "gotta catch them all".

And I again refer you to the games themselves where capturing every Pokemon has never been possible. Its nice you think they should, but if you think that, don't complain to me. Go write to Masuda. I'm pretty sure he's on Twitter.

[ansem the wise]

If your soul source of "the goal is to catch Pokemon!!!!" is the English catchphrase of the games for the first two generations, then great. But the games themselves don't reflect that reality. The anime doesn't reflect it. The mangas don't reflect it. Pokemon has been and always has been about going on an adventure with Pokemon, not about a specific task. It is nice you enjoy this specific task, but it is by no means the primary or main goal of Pokmeon.

Granted it was more of an anime thing, but back then the games and the anime were more closely correlated.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Trading is a good thing. And it really is only "trading for the majority" if you got into Pokemon yesterday. Anybody who got in during the fourth generation had opportunities to obtain all of the event exclusive Pokemon, and Plat/HG/SS had absolutely huge numbers of Pokemon that could be captured within them. Between those 3 games, every Legendary Pokemon that isn't an event exclusive can be caught and each starter Pokemon can be obtained.

at 35$ a game, you would have to drop over 100$ to do that, its getting insane.

You're still interacting with humans if it is online. It just means you are no longer limited to the people within a 2 foot radius of you.

well then you just eliminated the barrier that is preventing an mmo.

Its very hard, but not at all very rewarding outside of a personal goal.

dude 100% of what happens after the credits roll is a personal goal, and the most challenging would usually be the most rewarding.

It isn't easier. Linear!=easy. It just means shortening some of the never-ending routes which do nothing but irritate people. There's a difference between a genuine challenge and just frustrating obstacles. Whitney's Miltank is a genuine challenge. That stupid snow route in Sinnoh is just frustrating.

i think i see what you're saying.

[randomspot555]

Granted it was more of an anime thing, but back then the games and the anime were more closely correlated.

It wasn't even an anime thing because no trainer, Ash or anyone else, ever tried to capture everything they saw. It was more of "the anime theme song pounding it into people's brains". And again, I look at the games and still, no way for you to "capture" every Pokemon. You couldn't "capture" Mew, the version exclusives of the version you didn't own, and the other two starters. In Gen II, there's even more you couldn't capture! You couldn't get Celebi at all outside of an obscure event which was even obscure for Japan.

at 35$ a game, you would have to drop over 100$ to do that, its getting insane.

If a fan already owned those games, it isn't $100 all at one time. It is $100 over a period of 4-6 years.

well then you just eliminated the barrier that is preventing an mmo.

Except for...you know, the console its on, the fact Game Freak has no experience designing that kind of stuff, the current build of the Pokemon games...you know, everything else about Pokemon except for the fact that Pokemon and an MMO both have some stuff that happens on the Interwebs. That's about the only thing they have in common.

dude 100% of what happens after the credits roll is a personal goal, and the most challenging would usually be the most rewarding.

Again, if it is personally rewarding to you, that's great! More power to ya. But the games have historically not rewarded you** nor have they penalized you for not completing the Pokedex. This is in stark contrast to the E4, where you can't challenge them until you beat the Gym Leaders and often other routes are blocked off until you beat certain Gym Leaders or defeat a certain rival/evil team leader/whatever.

**Until BW2

[Psychic Politoed]

I believe that the sun will become a red giant and engulf the planet Earth 5 billion years down the line.

Pokemon brings in profit ($$$), so I don't see it necessarliy coming to an end.

Did you hear that Mario was going to have his last game soon? No? Well, because like Pokemon, he a profit maker!

[The Benmeister]

It is a good point how most other franchises don't have new things added to it the way that Pokemon does, and at some point it will get to an insane proportion if you intend on completing the Pokedex. I seem to remember within the fourth generation games you could actually get nearly every Pokemon anyway, I'm not sure why BW/BW2 didn't make more of an attempt to have a similar sort of system, maybe we'll see that again in the future, though then again maybe not.

[randomspot555]

We did see that system. It was/is the Dream World, which vastly expanded the kind of Pokemon available to you right off the bat. You could access it VERY early on in the game. Dream Radar opened up even more Pokemon that you could get right off the bat in BW2.

Before someone says that the DW is complicated or involves Wi-Fi, all of the things that drastically expand Pokemon availability involve extreme gimmicks or external methods. HGSS Safarizo zone involved blocks and ridiculous waiting periods as well as the PokeWalker (external). Sinnoh games had Pokemon Chaining and the Dongle Method.

[The Benmeister]

What I meant was within the standard games without external methods, though having said that, I suppose perhaps we have already reached a point where the amount of Pokemon is so much that things like the Dream World can actually be used as a good option to get them all. It would not surprise me to see a similar thing to it being used from this point onwards in Pokemon games.

[The Musician]

One of the unique aspects about Pokemon as an RPG is that it adds over 100 new playable characters every generation. I may be wrong in saying this, but I don't think there has been an RPG yet that has 649 playable characters.

Now think about an RPG with over 2,000 playable characters. That could potentially get overwhelming for younger players, who happen to be the target audience of Pokemon. We saw in Black and White that only the 5th generation Pokemon were available until after beating the E4 which could act as a way of regulating how many Pokemon get introduced to younger players and also keep the series "fresh" (which actually turned me off from the series until BW2).

My point is that if Gamefreak and Nintendo continue creating new generations of Pokemon, it has the potential to get to the point of overabundance (either for game coding, for the sake of younger players, for the interest of ENOUGH older players, etc.).

When I was 9, I only had to worry about catching 151 Pokemon. If new generations continue to be made, a kid 20 years from now might have to worry about catching 2,500 Pokemon. And yes, I am aware that players are not required to complete the Pokedex, but it is incentivised nonetheless. Even having to see 2,000+ Pokemon would be ridiculous.

But as long as I still love Pokemon, I don't mind if they keep going indefinitely.

[Zoruaruler]

Probably when Sugimori dies. That would be my guess, but because the audience is so easy to replace, I think they'll be going for a while.

[randomspot555]

Probably when Sugimori dies.

This makes absolutely no sense at all.

[jireh the provider]

Sigh.

Three factions exists at this thread:
a. those who cling on to reality truths too much
b. those who cling on to personal ideals too much
c. those who balance their beliefs with the reality

Personally, I bet to talk to the one who started this thread if you are here. I see you as a type c. Good analysis that all of you have. True that this series MAY need a new spiritual successor for the old top dog (Pokemon) to rest after a possible 10 to 15 years. But I think you are thinking it just right. not too soon yet not too late. But right now, the Pokemon spin offs have a way of surpassing its original source.

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series, which is MADE by Chunsoft (creaor of Many Mystery Dungeon Games) and CONFIRMED by Gamefreak and the Pokemon Company is a nice example. The 2 capitals play completely different rules. In other words, Gamefreak allowed Chunsoft's permission to make the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Series. You can also say this to Tecmo Koei's (creators of the Samurai Warriors Series) Pokemon Conquest.

[Psychic Politoed]

Sigh.

Three factions exists at this thread:
a. those who cling on to reality truths too much
b. those who cling on to personal ideals too much
c. those who balance their beliefs with the reality

Bolded: What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Personally, I bet to talk to the one who started this thread if you are here. I see you as a type c. Good analysis that all of you have. True that this series MAY need a new spiritual successor for the old top dog (Pokemon) to rest after a possible 10 to 15 years. But I think you are thinking it just right. not too soon yet not too late. But right now, the Pokemon spin offs have a way of surpassing its original source.

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series, which is MADE by Chunsoft (creaor of Many Mystery Dungeon Games) and CONFIRMED by Gamefreak and the Pokemon Company is a nice example. The 2 capitals play completely different rules. In other words, Gamefreak allowed Chunsoft's permission to make the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Series. You can also say this to Tecmo Koei's (creators of the Samurai Warriors Series) Pokemon Conquest.

Except spin-offs are not surpassing their original source.

Edit: Added Link

[Lion Demon]

Once Nintendo & Gamefreak come to an agreement about it... But I highly doubt that'll happen anytime soon...

[jireh the provider]

Bolded: What the heck is that supposed to mean?


Except spin-offs are not surpassing their original source.

Edit: Added Link

Sales are too obvious. What I meant surpassed the main series, is that the spin offs are better in other certain categories. Let me give a sample from personal experience.

Before Black and White blew my mind in the story category, character category, and Music category, PMD Explorers was the deepest plot when it comes to story.

Another nice example is Pokemon Battle revolution. Before we even encountered the 6th Generation trailer 8 days ago or the 2 Pokedex 3Ds, this Spin off was the best in graphics and animation 5-6 years ago despite being a bad spin off.

[char_char]

It'll last as long as the product makes money. If in 15 years (kinda the position GF was in when R/B/Y released in 1998) the franchise is still a mega seller then, from a business standpoint, I can't see them ceasing production on main series Pokemon games (there's too much money to be made).

[PopPrincess_Lyra]

They can't end it... coz they're making loads of moneys xD Unless they make another Anime similar to pokemon XD nya~

[Liz Azzimagica]

let's face it people, pokemon is our modern "never ending story", in 2016 or 2017, gen 7 will come out, then gen 8 3-4 years after and so on...

personally, a world without pokemon for me is like a world without music, love or a ray of sunshine. Those 3 things will always exsist. in fact, crazy as it sounds, insteed of a ring box...I want the guy I'm in love with to put the ring inside a Pokeball, lol, cause he's "captured" my heart sorry, had to say it, lol, anyway, yeah, I don't think it's gonna end for a very long time