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Thread: Are the New Pokemon Overpowered?

  1. #26
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    Wait a minute weren't the gen V starters the weakest starters overall in terms of base stat totals? I do believe though that there were a lot of powerful pokemon introduced in gen V like Darmanitan, Excadrill and Volcarona to name a few. However Volcarona in my opinion was maybe a second pseudo-legendary as it seemed to be one in the way it was an interactable pokemon, very high level and in an area you get to near the end of the game. Having these other powerful pokemon was probably supposed to make up for the not so good starters?
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    Well NO because pokemon with amazing attack and stuff have horrible speed so they all have flaws

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    I think the reason why a lot of Unova Pokemon are so good is because only a minimal portion of their low BST is invested in worthless stats they have little use for (IE, special attack for Scrafty and Darmanitan, speed for Ferrothorn).

    Tons of the older Pokemon could be far better if their stats were more specialized instead of being horribly average.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by sizida View Post
    If trade cannot be done to older gen because they remodeled the base stats of all Pokemon (strong to be slightly weaker and weak to be slightly stronger), it will be a great challenge!

    Either way IVs also contribute to overpowering Pokemon more.
    What do IVs have to do with anything?

  4. #29
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    Every generation has its 'overpowered' pokemon
    1st Gen: Dragonite, or basically any psychic-type (Their only weaknesses were bug and ghost, which the majority, if not all, of those moves did set amounts of damage)
    2nd Gen: Except for this one. I can't exactly find an overpowered one here.
    3rd Gen: Salamance, rayquaza, and metagross could all be considered overpowered.
    4th Gen: Garchomp and Dialga might be overpowered, too, if you think about it.
    5th Gen: I haven't played this one, so I'm not sure about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomspot555 View Post
    Except "power creep" really hasn't affected the game all that much because it doesn't really exist and is too broad and vague to make a good analysis, either of the series in general or the metagame specifically.
    Competitively, power creep refers to the metagame becoming more offensive as you go on. Some pokemon just can't be reliably countered. Once apon a time, this would of sent them strait to ubers, but now there is so many, it's much easier just to base it off the amount of checks. Personally, I still think the metagame is interesting, but for a good competitive player, there should be no denying that new threats are becoming more difficult to deal with without outspeeding.

    Practically nothing reliable counters Terrakion. Okay, sure, Golurk and Nidoqueen might because of their convenient typing, and Gliscor and Skarmory will if they are up against the correct sets, but if you count Nidoking, that's only about 5 pokemon, and they aren't even reliable. I mean, what are the Nidos going to do if it carries earthquake? And Skarmory really won't like coming in on Choice Band Close Combat. Keldeo? Sure, the Latis could handle it fairly well, but even a choice specs Hydro Pump in the rain will but a dent in them, even with their resistance to it.

    At this point, even stall based teams have to carry choice scarfers or speed freaks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Competitively, [words]
    Yes, I know what it means in that sense. What most people mean, when its used here, is "OH MY POOR FAVORITE POKEMON FROM [favorite gen] KEEPS GETTING BEAT BY THESE DUMB NEW POKEMON!!!" whereas really, every generation has a handful of powerful+versatile or powerful in one particular area. Every generation really has just about the same amount of "powerful" Pokemon and whatnot. I believe OU right now is almost divided evenly between the 5 generations, for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomspot555 View Post
    Yes, I know what it means in that sense. What most people mean, when its used here, is "OH MY POOR FAVORITE POKEMON FROM [favorite gen] KEEPS GETTING BEAT BY THESE DUMB NEW POKEMON!!!" whereas really, every generation has a handful of powerful+versatile or powerful in one particular area. Every generation really has just about the same amount of "powerful" Pokemon and whatnot. I believe OU right now is almost divided evenly between the 5 generations, for example.
    I agree with this.

  9. #34
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    I also think they are weaker. I don't think they can even beat the old ones.

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    Game Freak never seems to Pokémon with hardcore competition in mind. Whether it's good or not on a blood soaked battlefield always seems to be mere coincidence. Though, with the evolutions in generation 4 and the Dream World in generation 5, it's clear proof that they know some of the old guys need a boost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Storm View Post
    Power creep has been happening for a long time now.
    No offense, but if power creep really has happened, than how come Pokemon, all the way from Gen I, can keep up with Gen V?

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    Quote Originally Posted by randomspot555 View Post
    Yes, I know what it means in that sense. What most people mean, when its used here, is "OH MY POOR FAVORITE POKEMON FROM [favorite gen] KEEPS GETTING BEAT BY THESE DUMB NEW POKEMON!!!" whereas really, every generation has a handful of powerful+versatile or powerful in one particular area. Every generation really has just about the same amount of "powerful" Pokemon and whatnot. I believe OU right now is almost divided evenly between the 5 generations, for example.
    Well, this is true. I'm just used to the power creep being referred to by people with general competitive knowledge, so it wasn't exactly a Charizard VS. Stealth Rock scenario that came to mind.

    Sorry about that.
    No offense, but if power creep really has happened, than how come Pokemon, all the way from Gen I, can keep up with Gen V?
    The power creep exist, but it's also very, very slow. And from my understanding, the power creep refers to pokemon having stats concentrated more into certain areas, rather then having all around higher stats. And power isn't the only thing that determines a battle either. This means they either have to sacrifice speed or longevity for it. Chandelure, for example, has base 145 special attack, which is almost comparable to that of Mewtwo's, and has 20 stat points in total than it's gen 1 counterpart, Gengar. Yet, despite this, it can takes physical hits even worse then Gengar, and also has much lower speed.
    Last edited by Zachmac; 20th January 2013 at 4:47 AM.
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    Something people also tend to overlook is that there are simply more of these "powerful" Pokemon as the game advances. For example, in Generation I, obviously all the powerful (e.g. OU tier) dudes were from that generation. However, in Generation V, obviously less of these Pokemon would still be considered powerful since they have so many competitors. Based on the Smogon statistics from an earlier post on this thread, the distribution of the top 20 OU Pokemon seems to be relatively balanced - 5 from Generation I, 4 from II, 4 from III, 4 from IV and 2 from V (small anomaly here).

    140 base Attack doesn't mean the Pokemon is actually overpowered, because it can suck in other areas like Defense and Speed which "balance" its stats out. Earlier generation Pokemon were, in general, just more well-rounded in terms of stats as compared to today's Pokemon though their outstanding stats may be lacklustre.
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  14. #39

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    the starters stats and the 2 legendaries that we know so far will most likely have similar stats as previous gens
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Game Freak never seems to Pokémon with hardcore competition in mind. Whether it's good or not on a blood soaked battlefield always seems to be mere coincidence. Though, with the evolutions in generation 4 and the Dream World in generation 5, it's clear proof that they know some of the old guys need a boost.
    I'm not so sure about the abilities, considering things like Vital Spirit for Delibird and Overcoat on practically anything that's capable of having it (You'd think they could at least give it to something that isn't already immune to one of the weather types)...

    Sableye and Quagsire are probably some of the best examples of Pokemon that went from horrible to amazing thanks to their DW abilities, and it's a pity they couldn't follow the same line of logic for all of the mediocre Pokemon.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Game Freak never seems to Pokémon with hardcore competition in mind. Whether it's good or not on a blood soaked battlefield always seems to be mere coincidence. Though, with the evolutions in generation 4 and the Dream World in generation 5, it's clear proof that they know some of the old guys need a boost.
    They also seem to be shifting more from the "make everything well rounded" frame of mind to a more "let's make this good at this, and that good at that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    I'm not so sure about the abilities, considering things like Vital Spirit for Delibird and Overcoat on practically anything that's capable of having it (You'd think they could at least give it to something that isn't already immune to one of the weather types)...

    Sableye and Quagsire are probably some of the best examples of Pokemon that went from horrible to amazing thanks to their DW abilities, and it's a pity they couldn't follow the same line of logic for all of the mediocre Pokemon.
    Gamefreak still likes to troll. But yes, a lot of older Pokemon were revitalized by new abilities, like Sableye, Nidoking/Queen, Blaziken, and Venusaur.

  17. #42

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    If you look at earlier Pokémon, many of them have well rounded base stats, which is fine in-game, but makes them almost useless competitively. I think Game Freak has noticed/caused a shift toward competitive battling, and have adjusted base stats accordingly. I'm not sure that Pokémon are getting any stronger, just more biased towards one or two stats.
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  18. #43
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    I don't really think the Gen 5 Pokemon are 'overpowered' exactly, because each one has a few massive strengths but one glaring weakness. For example, Gigalith has a massive attack stat, and can take a hit or two with its high defenses and Sturdy, but its Speed is dreadful, and its strongest attacking move (Stone Edge) has a pretty low accuracy.


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  19. #44
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    Not really (with the exception of HAXorus) they're all strong in their own ways.

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    Overpowered is pushing it a little. I will say each generation they get a little stronger, so next gen has to be stronger to combat it. A never ending cycle. I am also gonna throw this out there i think some tcg cards are overpowered (or at least a lot stronger), especially the EX cards. They are seriously strong compared to other cards.
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  22. #47
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    I dont like using a lot of the newer pokemon. they seemed weaker to me then the older ones. i mean there are some strong ones but it didnt seem like there were to many to choose from. and the starters for this generation kinda sucked.
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    I rather wait to say my opinion until they announce everything what is required; Stats, moves, abilities, evolutions, the new pokemon with their types etc.
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  24. #49
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    Overpowered ? I don't think so. Why would it be ? Those legendaries could look tall, but we didn't see their stats, we can't say anything...
    I'm sure that no pokemon will overpower Arceus in this new generation...
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  25. #50
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    It should go without saying that nobody has played gen VI, so nobody can comment on it.

    To the existing gens - there has been a certain amount of power creep, no matter how enthusiastically some few might insist otherwise. It's not noticeable at the higher ends, since GF remains wisely careful about introducing notably overpowered pokemon, but it's obvious if one has actually played the fifth gen games and paid close attention to the stats individually and broadly.

    First - stats are much more effectively distributed in this gen. I saw someone mention Gigalith earlier as a nominal example of a gen 5 pokemon with detrimentally poorly distributed stats, since its special defense is so notably low. The thing though is that Gigalith is the exception, rather than the rule. The rule in this gen, quite plainly, is balanced defensive stats paired most often with beneficially skewed offensive stats. I could fill up the rest of this post listing the pokemon in the Unova dex that have close to even and often exactly even defense and special defense - in fact, it's the ones that don't, like Gigalith, that are the exception. Look through the dex and you'll find a huge number of pokemon with not only similar, but exactly identical physical and special defense stats. And virtually all of them have their attacking stats balanced correctly right off, with a usefully high number for one and a "leaves-plenty-of-BST-for-more-important-things" low number for the other. The result is that the Unova dex is absolutely littered with things like Stoutland and Leavanny and Lilligant and Reuniclus, and Sigilyph and Scrafty and Darmanitan and Mienshao and Braviary and Excadrill and Escavalier and Crustle and Amoongus and Sawsbuck and... and... and... - pokemon who have nicely balanced stats with everything that they need to function well and no cripplingly poor stats anywhere (or almost anywhere - it should be noted that this has led to a notable number of the Unova pokemon being notably slow, which of course is a consideration in the metagame, and is a good part of the reason that the upper tiers have remained relatively balanced between the gens IN SPITE OF the power creep in gen 5). The pokemon like Swoobat or Liepard - who just don't quite have what they need to make the grade - are the exception in this gen. If you go back to earlier gens, that's simply not so strongly the case. Sure - past gens also gave us great pokemon, and the current upper tiers reflect that. But past gens also gave us quite a few more mediocre pokemon, and quite a few more absolutely useless ones. Sure this gen hasn't introduced an unacceptable number of new Skarmorys or Dragonites or Salamences, but it didn't give us ANY new Unowns or Plusles or Ledians or Delibirds. And in fact, with the DW abilities, it actually went a ways toward improving some of those older pokemon (a sure indication, IMO, that GF recognized the power creep and took steps to alleviate it a bit by improving past gen pokemon SPECIFICALLY in order for them to remain, or in some cases become, competitive).

    Now - all that said, I don't care much. I think that some amount of power creep has absolutely undeniably happened, and I think that it's to some degree pretty much unavoidable. As time goes on, they're just not going to introduce as many, or any, new Delibirds, and at the same time, they're going to be looking to outdo themselves. I just can't see them introducing another Ledian - a pokemon with a mind-bogglingly ridiculous and wholly inappropriate stat spread. It's not that they've introduced some unprecedented number of new uber or near-uber pokemon - it's that virtually all of them are at least useable, and a great many of them are really pretty damned good, and obviously so. And I expect that to continue. They'll undoubtedly still keep it somewhat under rein, since the gens need to stay reasonably balanced just so that including past gen pokemon in a new game is a bonus instead of a useless hassle, but I think it's undeniable and unavoidable. And personally, I love it. I'm on my third time through a Unova game and I still haven't come even close to using all of the awesome pokemon I want to use out of this dex. Contrary to so many past dexes, there are still so many out there that already have solid, balanced defenses, at least decent HP, plenty of points in the attacking stat they need with no wasted points in the one they don't and.... well... sometimes really sort of crappy speed, but still......


    TL/DR: Some amount of power creep has happened, it's pretty much unavoidable, it hasn't had that much of an effect on the games overall and I welcome it.
    Last edited by Arlo; 21st January 2013 at 12:44 AM.

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